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Old 03-24-2006, 09:54 AM   #251
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Hi Pete,
I did do my first video after the flight with the mike switched on this time! But it was so windy that I got a lot of wind noise on the mike of the digital camera. I will have to repeat it. As our weather has clamped down again I can't be sure when. It's all right for Richard in unbroken sunshine!

Good to hear that you nearly have your speakers Tor. I took a fried one apart and the coil wire is so fine it is amazing that they absorb (and give out) so much power.

John
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:52 PM   #252
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The speakers are here so I'll take a look at the install tonight. They feel surprisingly light.

I think AC current (sound) is less demanding of the wires.


Looking forward to seeing your Messerschmitt. I saw the article in QEFI and it looks fantastic.
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:52 PM   #253
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Thumbs up Keep up the good work

Hi there you delightfully noisy quiet fliers.

I have a Bud Nosen Mr Mulligan 1/4 scale kit and I am assembling parts for the kit such as wheel pants I have, and Cowl I am ordering. I have a Zenoah G-38 but hope to cover the unrealistic sound with a "real radial sound".

I am not building it yet, I want to purchase the sound kit and make allowances in construction for the gear.

Please hurry up with your super trials and get it into production, I'm waiting to see what bashing the kit will need.




Many thanks--- old git (John L.)
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:15 PM   #254
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Hi All

Just a quick update - I'm waiting for Thomas to perfect his 50 volt amp instead of putting my current amp in and then having to swap them. Hopefully this should be very soon.

Corsair is planked and up on her wheels. Having great fun getting the 6 flaps and ailerons to wrap around that curved wing in unison. Lots of detailing to do before covering. I've bought a copy of Earl Aune's wing folding design and am very tempted to include it on this one but I think it is more important to just get this one flying and save the folding wings for the next one.

My plan is to start entering a few contests with the Corsair. Apparently contest are struggling for numbers here in Australia in the tradional F4C, large scale and stand-off in the face of ARF scale - can't help thinking this is not right! So time to put up.

The rules here are saying there is a strict 96db ( and some clubs are 93db) at 3 metres and 30cm above the ground limit. I haven't done any tests at this distance and am not really in a position to do so until Thomas' amp is ready. Have you tested like this John? Chasing 100db and greater at 1 metre are we in danger of becoming illegal in a contest sense? Maybe quality will be more important than quanity?

Great reading of everyone's prgress in here - keep up the good work.

Richard
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Old 03-24-2006, 11:41 PM   #255
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Speakers are installed. It was an easy job but I might need to add some sealant around the edges of the speakers for optimum results. I haven't decided on how or where to install the amp and sound unit yet.

Here's a little video showing off the sound at idle. Sounds alright but the other sounds need work. I'll soon fix that.

http://www.enrarot.net/videos/spitfire/soundtest.wmv
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Old 03-25-2006, 01:05 AM   #256
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Hey Tahus, Long time no talk. I just maidened my H9 Miss America yesterday @ 8.5 pounds, my 1 pound sound system was in my flight box and it was measured @ 75 db from 9 feet. The speaker was still in its cardboard box with the flaps open. I may be able to get better resonance when its in the wood fuselage. I sure don't feel like drilling holes in such a pretty airplane but they will be where the dark blue covering is so hopefully they won't show too much. My main concern is wing loading since this plane has a pretty abrupt stall already. I made 3 flights with 2 noseovers in the muddy grass. The weak stock retracts held up well but I wonder how they will be when they have to support the additional weight. I have the 2x40w amp. What are the dimensions of your two speakers and what do they weigh? Have you tested the new sound yet? Regards, Merlin
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Old 03-25-2006, 01:11 AM   #257
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Here you can see the data on the speakers. They weigh 160 g each. http://www.visaton.de/deutsch/artikel/art_375_1_3.html

With the extra stuff my plane probably weighs 6350-6400 g (~14 lbs) so it's as heavy as the glow powered models now. I still haven't tried any new sounds.
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:44 AM   #258
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Those speakers are slightly larger than my one, you'll have "stereo".
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Old 03-25-2006, 12:11 PM   #259
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I ran the motor yesterday without the cowling attached to hunt a resonance sound and can confirm that the vibration dampers I use work. I held my finger on the motor mount and then on the fuselage while the motor was running at low RPM and the fuselage was completely vibration free, while the motor mount was vibrating with a high frequency. The resonance sound I had was caused by the exhaust stacks and the spinner.
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Old 03-26-2006, 09:55 AM   #260
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Hi Tahustvedt,

Pleased you finally managed to get the Visaton speakers and it was good to see the video. What are you powering your amplifier with and where have you placed the amplifier?

Hi Merlin,

Before LiPo's my H9 Mustang was flying at 9-1/4lbs on 20 round cells and as a precaution i replaced the supplied 4mm wire legs with 5mm piano wire ones without coils. I simply drilled out the retract units to allow this.

I have also done it on my 65" H9 P-47 and both the Mustang and Thunderbolt benefit from the improved ground handling.

Pete.


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Old 03-26-2006, 10:11 AM   #261
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ok please excuse me....just as a summary for my (and other's benefit)...we have a system now that has a clearly defined BOM and two definite sizes...one for larger planes, the other under 8oz for smaller ones.

it seems to me that one can go out and purchase the required items and join in this thread...if so, what exactly please?

i.e. if i were to contemplate building or purchasing a model, i'd want to know what the sound system is going to be comprised of, to make allowances.

please consider me as a test case for your patience...

im looking at doing a WW1 build and am just about to start it, but now am seriously thinking of enbedding a lightweight sound setup in the model.

i need the least possible weight and am willing to trade off volume to do so.

i dont need to hear the thing when it's 200 metres away, but at takeoff, idle, landing and fly bys it'd be great.

So what do i need to buy exactly...complete..

This is great stuff guys...PS love the spitfire video!

Tim
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Old 03-26-2006, 11:52 AM   #262
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Default Me too!

Originally Posted by watt_the?! View Post

i.e. if i were to contemplate building or purchasing a model, i'd want to know what the sound system is going to be comprised of, to make allowances.
So what do i need to buy exactly...complete..

Tim
To jump on the back of Tim's comment, ME TOO! I'm looking at a 1/4 scale Mr Mulligan, the 12" diameter cowl should hold a large silencer so I need something to replace the wrong sound with the right sound. Keep up the good work. Sorry it's not a Warbird, I'm more of a Golden Age enthusiast.



old git aka John L
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Old 03-26-2006, 04:19 PM   #263
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In the video I just stuck a 3S 830 mAh battery in the wing to power the amplifier temporarily. I think I will position the amp-battery in the nose for the actual flying and maybe later buy or build a 12 V regularot. I'm not sure if it's possible to use a linear regulator to convert 33 V down to 12 V.

I still haven't mounted the amplifier anywhere. I made a hatch on the underside of the wing for the wing-joiner bolts so I might make a new hatch from aluminium and attach the amplifier to that so that it will act as a heatsink. Not the most efficient heatsink as there will be no ribs but at least it's out in the open with a good airflow over the surface.


Tor Arne


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Old 03-26-2006, 08:58 PM   #264
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Are you guys running the 2x40 W amp and Visaton speakers without any volume reduction on the input signal or will that blow the speakers?
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Old 03-27-2006, 12:29 AM   #265
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I am using autostart mode and Thomas sent me a volume control since you can't adjust volume in that mode. However even when it is turned up all the way it is too quiet. (good for indoor testing) When I unplug the volume it is much louder and so far haven't blown the speaker. I am using a 1320mah 3cell lipo to power the amp.
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Old 03-27-2006, 02:20 PM   #266
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Hi all,
Well done Richard on your Corsair progress, good luck in the F4C. We all hanker after a BT Corsair and I think your ability to graft a large single speaker into the fuselage is excellent. Pete and I are aspiring towards F4C too and I have resigned myself to coming in behind him as he is a brilliant flyer.

If Thomas goes true to form, then I expect he will fit a volume control potentiometer to the 50v amplifier. He still is working on the 50v amplifier when he gets time. I am sure it will be up to his usual high standard when it is released. The other two amplifiers both have volume potentiometers as options and they are indispensable.

I have not tried an outside sound level test yet although I did one recently for an IC plane. His failed, but all we have to do (worst case) is adjust the dBa level with a screwdriver!

The ME109 was taken for a flight again at the weekend in strong wind conditions. The sound was very good to me, and I think this is the best yet, as it tranforms the model into a baby full size plane - if you see what I mean. The sound box is only about 1 litre, but the output from one 4" speaker is very good. The landing, on the other hand, was more of an arrival as it balloned up after touching. No damage luckily. Ouch.

The 30w 30v amplifier was cool even though the ambient air temperature has now rocketed to the dizzy heights of 15 degrees! Don't laugh Richard. So long as that amplifier gets aircooling it is very good for 6s lipos and one speaker.

Hi Tor, Like the video, yes ear defenders are a good idea! Hope it flies as well as it looks. You certainly seem to have solved the engine noise problem, can you show us a picture of your engine mounts? Do you get an audible whine from the motor when you throttle up? I still get that but all my motors are ridgidly mounted still.

Thomas tried to make a linear voltage regulator, but found it very inefficient. The 2x40w amplifier is more efficient than the 30w amplifier so you won't need so much cooling. I am sure your idea of a aluminium hatch plate will work. I am now fitting temeparture sensing stickers on the cooling fins and not exceeding 70 degrees C on the hottest amplifier.

Hi Tim, another magazine article about electric sound has just been published this month in the Traplet QEFI (Quiet and Electric Flight International) and it goes through the basics and the developments up to about two months ago. I hope to follow up with another article soon. The big thing is to work out whether you can carry two speakers or only one and where you will fit (it or) them. If you go for a single R10s 4" speaker and your battery flight pack is less than 30v then you can do it for under 1/2 lb.

John
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Old 03-27-2006, 03:05 PM   #267
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What I am seeing in some of the comments/ replies, and I know I feel the same way: there is a growing number of us who are ready to take the plunge, so to speak. But what we would like to see is for someone to step up to the plate and offer a complete/ pre-programmed package, or even complete minus speaker. We seem to be favoring the 1 speaker setup, so that we can keep it under 1/2 lb. I think most of us will be able to supply out own battery packs as well (OR, use our flight power packs?).

Many of us are not ready to go 'shopping' for the indivual items, and would like to see a ARR (Almost Ready to Rumble) kit for sale either from an indivual or company.

So, if anyone is interested, we have our charge cards and PayPal accounts ready.

Avatar: award winning, highly modified, electric powered Hanger 9 Corsair
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Old 03-27-2006, 03:21 PM   #268
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Here's a picture I took of the motor mounts before everything was installed. I can actually move the spinner up/down and sideways ~3 mm in all directions so they are pretty soft but it doesn't seem to cause any problems. I still get the motor whine but I'm sure it would be louder if I had used a rigid mount. Maybe a different rubber would work better. I have also noticed that my camera seems to exaggerate the whine in all my videos. It's probably better at capturing those high frequencies than the prop sound.

A motor that spins at a lower rpm would maybe reduce the whine even further. I rewound an Axi 4130 to 24 turns LRK and its spinning a 20x13 prop at just under 5000 rpm on 8S. It's incredibly quiet even though it's hardmounted to the balsa aerobatic fuselage. If I decide to try a scale prop I will need to wind for ~3500 rpm. High torque and low RPM.

Here's a video of the 5000 rpm Velox aerobat. It sounds fantastic in real life but the camera doesn't capture the prop sound properly. Please excuse the clumsy flight. I have been spoilt by depron planes for too long.:o http://enrarot.net/videos/velox/velox03.wmv


CorsairJock
Thomas Benedini has told me he might keep some R10S speakers in stock to sell along with the sound systems.

BTW, I am already looking for another plane. The CMPro 160-size Texan is nice looking and should be suitable for a larger single speaker in the nose.


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Old 03-27-2006, 04:15 PM   #269
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We have one of the CMPro Texans in stock and will be installing our new Force 6 63/62/10 motor soon! You can see the motor at www.flyhurricane.com
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:20 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Johnr View Post




Hi Tim, another magazine article about electric sound has just been published this month in the Traplet QEFI (Quiet and Electric Flight International) and it goes through the basics and the developments up to about two months ago. I hope to follow up with another article soon. The big thing is to work out whether you can carry two speakers or only one and where you will fit (it or) them. If you go for a single R10s 4" speaker and your battery flight pack is less than 30v then you can do it for under 1/2 lb.

John
great stuff...i think i can manage fitting a 4 inch speaker somewhere..if i know that all i need is that space claim...but is it?

i realise that it may sound a bit lazy, but for those who see this thread and cant spend the time reading through and digesting everything in here (i.e. they love the idea and want to know simply what to buy and where) then a nice BOM would be very helpful.

Then i can make it a sticky perhaps?

I'm just downloading the latest video now....thanks so much for adding this new dimension to ERC!

Tim
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Old 03-28-2006, 09:47 AM   #271
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Hi All,
Thanks for the picture of the engine mounts Tor, did you use the standard I/C engine mounts? You must be a clever guy to rewing an AXI! Like the video and here's me moaning about the cold in the UK! Beautiful countryside.

Hi Corsair Jock, the 1/2lb system has only had two flights, so I think it is OK but it is early days yet. However Thomas Benedini (www.benedini.de)will supply you with a kit of parts, i.e. a speaker, Micro sound card and maybe the 30w amplifier if it is availble. Just be sure that your flight pack voltage is between 12 and 30 volts then you will not need a separate sound battery. Otherwise the 2x40w amplifier on 12-18v with only one channel in use. You will need to tell him about which sound file you want. The radial engine, Merlin or 109 sounds are all currently available.

Hi Tim, what is a 'BOM' and a 'sticky'?! If you can fit in a 4" speaker and your voltage is as above then you are almost there. The Micro sound card is smaller than a postage stamp and the new single channel amplifier will need some air cooling. Size about 50mm x 30mm x 20mm.

John
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Old 03-28-2006, 01:14 PM   #272
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I made the motor mount from 1,5 mm aluminium. It's light yet strong because of the riveted frame in the middle. The rubber vibration dampers are made by Kavan and come in packs of four with M4 threaded stubs on each end. Part number: KAV3024
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:20 PM   #273
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Tor Arne, What kind of scale wheels are you using on your Spit they look great.
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Old 03-28-2006, 03:52 PM   #274
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Tey are the stock wheels. I put them in my drillpress and sanded the shape of the tire. Then I made hubcaps for the wheels and painted them white.
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Old 03-30-2006, 09:30 PM   #275
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Hi All

Great article in Q&EFI John summarizing the 'current state of play' of adding real sound to electric ( and other?) planes.

I just received an email from Thomas and his 50 volt amp is now up and running on the bench with about another 2 weeks to get it onto a circuit board. Should be just about ready for it by then.

Richard
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