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Old 09-24-2005, 09:51 AM   #51
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hi all,

wow...ive been looking for one of these for a logn time. Hawker S[ystems (i think) in the UK do a gas turbine one and a bunch of diesels for their trains..

i see that Luc has the polk dr1...thats what im looking for sound for.

The great thing is that this plane NEEDS weight in the nose...so a speaker/amp setup is perfect for it...

I'm waiting with bated breath.

tim.
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Old 09-24-2005, 06:50 PM   #52
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euh...I have the GP DR1. It still sure needs weight in the nose...I put the lipo inside the cowl...


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Old 09-26-2005, 09:07 PM   #53
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Hi Guys

Great video Pete and great plane. Lots of potential for new ideas in adding sound to electrics. Are you inspiring others to have a go when they see what can be done?

My Aircraft Records 2 CD Corsair set arrived and altho aimed at creating an atmosphere with lots of fly-bys there were some great start-up and shut-down sounds. Thomas was more than happy with them anyway so I should have one of his new micro sounds cards programmed up with a Pratt and Whitney R-2800 in about 4 weeks.

Keep up the good work

Richard
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Old 09-27-2005, 05:57 AM   #54
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Default NO CAL Sound

I too am looking to add sound to some of my planes but I guess that I am looking in a different area than you guys. As you know weight is a factor with electrics, especially smaller planes. Too heavy and they are dogs.

I am looking for a way to create the sounds by adding a small whistle of some sort to a wing tip so it screames in a dive. Or do you remember using clothes pins and playing cards to rub on the spokes of your bicycle when you were a child? Making sounds like a motorcycle. It seems to me that the same sort of thing could be done at the prop shaft, rubbing something against something else to create sounds in sync with motor RPM.

Just thinking out loud with some low weight, low tech, inexpensive way to get what you want (noise). Any suggestions would be appreciated........

I love the smell of Lipos in the mornings!

TopGun Combat Planes
http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...serid=brodiejf
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Old 09-27-2005, 06:25 AM   #55
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I can't find the site, but these whistles are sold by the manufacturer of the elee bee (wing) in HK.
I got one for less than 2$, sent abroad...
you can put them on the wing or on the plane..
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Old 09-27-2005, 08:54 AM   #56
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Hi Richard and all,
I understand the Traplet Quiet and Electric sound article is now published if that helps with photos etc. I have ordered a 35watt rms amplifier from Oz to try it out.

Thomas sent me a picture of the new micro circuit but I am not sure whether it will upload.

Regards,

John


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Old 10-02-2005, 09:03 PM   #57
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Hi John and Everyone

I've finally managed to clear enough room on the building bench to make a start on my BT Corsair. I'm trying Gordon's isolating engine mount idea and built the speaker into a totally sealed box. I'll try and get it sitting on some wheels in the next week or 2 and fire it all up to see what sound it'll give.

Thomas' micro card should be here by then. Looks tiny in the picture John. Does it do all the same things your one does? Thomas said the dead band on this one programable by the user which should solve that little problem.

Thanks for the info on Q&E. They have been a bit hard to get from the newsagent over the last few months so I might have to subscribe.

Happy building

Richard


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Old 10-03-2005, 01:33 PM   #58
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Hi Richard and all,
That looks very good. You will be frightening all the roos across Oz with that! It will be interesting to see how the engine mounts perform nad how they isolate the whine from the structure.

We both look forward to the new circuit from Thomas. I asked him if it had all the same functions as the TSB4 circuit but haven't had a response yet. It will be good that the dead band will be user programmable.

Not yet received the amp kit yet.

Regards,

John
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Old 10-05-2005, 06:55 AM   #59
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i found a company that already does these....

http://www.ramrcandramtrack.com/

my radial is on its way.

they do jet sounds and merlins etc also.

sorry if someone's already posted this.

Cheers,

tim.
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Old 10-05-2005, 06:54 PM   #60
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thw to post the sound and a pic of the device once you get it
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Old 10-08-2005, 12:06 AM   #61
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Hey Tim - is that the same one CorsairJock was talking about back in post #17? He didn't seem very impressed with the sound. Let us know what you think. Any chance of posting a sample?

Has that amp kit shown up yet John? Really a simple build but do follow the instructions when they say install the big electro capacitors last. I didn't and it did make mounting the heatsink a bit awkard.

Richard
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Old 10-08-2005, 12:10 AM   #62
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yeah it is...dang, missed his post.

oh well. will post a recording of it, should have it this week.

Tim.
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Old 10-11-2005, 02:06 PM   #63
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Hello Richard and all,
This is a picture of the new circuit that Thomas is about to release. The only drawback is that it will only do one sound at a time.

Still waiting for the amplifier circuit. Perhaps they are out of stock?......

All the best,

John


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Old 10-19-2005, 07:56 PM   #64
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Bundy

I have only just joined this forum, so excuse me if it takes me some time to find my way around the various threads and end up repeating a reply or question.

I was intersted to read that you are building a B25, as I have been flying my own version off and on, (it only comes out on rare occations now), and its now about 10 years old. It would be great to have the correct sound of those radials, especially the start-up. Since I changed from gearboxes to belt drives, mine sure sound better but is almost silent at a 50 yards.

Good luck with your project.
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Old 10-19-2005, 10:33 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by watt_the?! View Post
yeah it is...dang, missed his post.

oh well. will post a recording of it, should have it this week.

Tim.
Well i got my radial sound this week.

not great and not incremental either...i.e. not inline with throttle position.

its either on, or off.

the great big speaker worries me though with that big magnet on the back and how it would interfere with the mag field of the motor/ESC/wiring etc.

me thinks that these things are better suited for larger planes.

(??)

Tim.
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Old 10-31-2005, 10:25 AM   #66
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Hi Richard and all,
Finally received the Oz 70w amp on Friday, it took three weeks to arrive but only a Saturday morning to assemble and test. It was powered by a 40amp 13.8v regulated power supply and fed a large speaker. Although it was working and loud (the wife said the neighbours would soon be complaining), the current maxed out at 2.5amps before the sound started breaking up. Any ideas here Richard?

The heat sink was fitted and the large 6" speaker was easily capable of taking the amplifier output. I am not an electronics expert so my diagnosis skills are not so good. I have checked and rechecked the electronic parts layout and it seems to be correct.

It does say in the technical info that the capacitors do have to recharge so I was wondering whether continuous engine roar would prevent them from having the lull to recharge, but having said that, you managed to get your amp to draw 6 amps!?

All the best,

John
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Old 11-05-2005, 03:18 PM   #67
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Making wing panels into sound radiators should work and I think it's been done. Mini-Olympus gearboxes have a fairly loud sound for some reason. My 54" w/s Aeronca Chief has been accused of having IC power. Four of them on a B-17 etc would sound pretty realistic. Makes me wonder if a gearbox could be purposely designed or modified to make engine sounds.
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Old 11-07-2005, 03:43 AM   #68
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Default 70 watt amp

Hi John

Sorry for taking so long to get back. I didn't get an email saying there were updates here and I've been too busy with Corsair flaps to go looking.

I just fired my amp up again now and had it pulling over the 6 amps with the sound file I've sent Thomas. I know the problem you are talking about tho and while not being a electronic buff, I've fixed it by driving the amp with a preamp.

When I was driving straight from the small mp3 player some files start the breaking up/chopping out you are talking about but when driven via a small preamp through the computer I've had no problems and the full 6 amps showing on the Whattmeter. My wife wasn't very happy with the noise but at least she knows where I am!

Let us know if this helps?

I'm still waiting on Thomas to finish his micro sound card. I will post some pics and sound captures when it arrives hopefully in the next week or two.

Amplifing a noisy gearbox via the wing is a novel approach. Maybe a clicking device like kids use on bike wheels

Getting closer

Richard
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Old 11-07-2005, 03:34 PM   #69
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Hi Richard and all,
Ref the Oz amplifier, you might be right about the input power. I used the headphone output of the garage radio and it broke up when the vloume was turned up.

Thomas sent me an early first development micro circuit plus a 2x40 watt amplifier (12v) as a demo for a British Elelctric Flying Association talk that I did in the UK. It arrived at the last minute and I only had time to do a quick check.

The Micro unit looks very good. It is about half the size of a postage stamp but takes female servo connectors. It has a small amplifier built in, so this should be good as a preamp for us model fliers. Thomas had trouble with the first version software for the programing, so it would not give the special sounds. He is working to fix this problem so it might be a few days before you get your production version.

The micro sound circuit is powered from the receiver battery, so the amplifier and its battery must be kept separate. This is good, as potentially is could allow us to use other amplifiers using the higher voltages from the main power batteries. (interference permitting that is).

The micro circuit does not have opto-isolation, we will have to watch this as well. Suggest your first one is switched on by a separate servo so that it can be switched on and off at height for testing. Are you going to have the micro circuit or the larger TSB sound unit?

The amplifier looks excellent and uses a similar (but not identical) Phillips chip as the Oz amp. It is much more compact, lighter and simpler that the Oz circuit. However, once again, it is suffering from low power consumption. I could only get 1.7Amps at 13.8v = 23w, but Thomas advises that I need to regulate the input by reducing the value of the 10k input resistor. That is similar to what you were saying isn't it, and it makes good sense. I might try and get a variable potentiometer to be able to work the two speakers to their maximum 20w true.

We are getting there.

All the best,

John
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Old 11-13-2005, 10:36 AM   #70
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Default Sound Card

Hi John and Everybody

Really need to check in here more often - the auto notify doesn't always work. Busy time of year for us too. We live in the sub-tropics in Queensland and grow hydroponic culinary herbs for the restaurants of Sydney and Melbourne. We are having one of those hot, wet summers which is brilliant but creates lots of work for us.

Still haven't heard from Thomas as to when I can get a micro sound card but from what you are saying it should be good. Do I understand correctly that the new micro sound card comes with a 20watt amp based on a Phillips chip? If this is so then it should fill the bill of the preamp well after a little fiddling to get the best results. That Oz amp will happily sit on a 6 amp draw if the input is at a suitable level. Still a challenge to derive this power supply from the 40 volt motor battery but will see what can be done because it will simplify things greatly.

Actually I'm almost up to the stage of needing the sound card in my Corsair build. Before I start planking the fuselage, I'm sorting out where everything will go. With scale retracable tailwheel and arrestor hook, working canopy, full cockpit, sound box and working cowl flaps along with a 10S4P lipo I'm fast running out of room. Can the sound card and its functions be worked from an E-switch and not a servo and micro switch? Physical room and radio channels are both tight even at 1/6 scale and 82".

I've subscibed to Quiet and Electric Flight but I think they have started with the wrong issue. Which issue was your artcile in? Might still be able to get in the shops here which are still way behind.

Will send some pics and sounds when I get something.

Happy flying

Richard
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Old 11-14-2005, 09:25 AM   #71
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Hi Richard and all,
I wish it were hot here, we have just had our first frost.

I have posted a picture of the micro plus the new Benedini amplifier rated at 2 x 40watts against the Oz amp. The micro has a 1 watt amplifier in it I think. It is powerful enough to take his new amplifier into producing distortion. Thomas advised me to adjust the output of the micro with a 10k ohm potentiometer. Have done this, but still stuck at 2 amps at 15v on his amplifier. The speakers I am using are 8 ohm versions, so really I need to try 4 ohm speakers.

Thomas is using a spare channel to start and stop the circuit, so you only need to make a female to female extension lead and it plugs into the pins on the board. One more for the throttle and one plug for the output to the amplifier. I am sure you will not have trouble finding space for this circuit!

I will have to check the QEFI edition, but if you can see a previous edition with the yellow nosed 109 on the front, it is that one for my BT conversion and the next one for the sound.

It would be really good to see the Corsiar build when you have a photograph.

All the best,

John


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Old 12-09-2005, 08:16 PM   #72
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Default Speaker Installation is Half The Battle

Not to interrupt this interesting disussion of amps and speakers, but from putting sound in model trains I've learned that the speaker enclosure is at least half the battle. (Actually I learned it from hi-fi magazines, but fooling with trains really brought the lesson home.) Model train folks have gotten adept at putting speakers in die-cast metal boxcars that are carefully sealed to prevent air leakage, and things like that.

Without an enclosure, a speaker can't produce low frequencies -- technically, any frequency with a wavelength larger than the speaker. The enclosure keeps the sound waves from the front and back of the speaker from cancelling each other out -- it has to be rigid, so sound can't get thru it, and it has to be well-damped, so it doesn't resonate (rattle, buzz, etc). Problem is, most successful speaker-enclusure materials are heavy and dense -- like plywood and MDF for hi-fi speakers, or the die-cast zinc mentioned above.

I don't think this is an insurmountable problem, but it is going to require considerable experimentation and probably modification of the airframe, to achieve an installation that does justice to the sound of a big radial. I think the speaker and the amp will be two of the easier parts of the problem.

It'll be worth it though... sound seems like a gimmick at first glance, but you quickly find that it adds a heck of a lot to the modelling and "oh-wow" experience.

Ed
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Old 12-12-2005, 11:04 AM   #73
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Hi Ed,
You are right that the speaker cabinet is a large part of the concept and that we can't install anything too heavy. At the moment the sealed wing cavities works well for the sound boxes. They also works efficiently as the sound is emitted downwards. We are all experimenting and the definitive way will emerge eventually. As you have probably seen, Richard is fitting a good solid sound box in the cowl. If only we could find lighter speakers, as the amplifiers and sound cards are fairly well developed.

Do you know of any lightweight efficient speakers? Mine are 4" Visaton 4 ohm speakers at 20w handing power, weighing nearly 6 ozs each.

Richard, I tried the Benedini amplifiers driving the two HE111 4" 4 ohm speakers and eventually blew the coil of one speaker! Therefore the new 1 oz weight amplifier is very good and I will experiment with fitting it with the micro sound card into a test plane. Which sound unit are you getting, and are you going to buy a Benedini amplifier or use the Oz amp?


All the best,

John
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Old 12-14-2005, 02:12 AM   #74
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A Piezo plastic speaker and a 5 watt audio amp with a digital audio source playing the sound of an appropriate number of cylinders won't be difficult to put together. Its light weight and won't draw down too much power on a seperate battery. Recording a Stuka, B-17, B-29, B-25 sound won't take
minutes with as many sound bytes that exist on the web.

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Old 12-14-2005, 05:06 AM   #75
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Hi All

Finally have things sorted with Thomas and have just bought the TBS Micro sound card along with a programming adaptor so I can access all its features. You can apparently load your own sound files on with this. From what I can understand at this stage, the only real compromise with the micro sound card is not being able to play multiple sounds at the same time but personally I'm not too worried about this. Should be in the mail before Xmas and I will put it into a test plane very early in the new year.

I'm planning on using the Oz amp at this stage and see how things go from there. With its built in 1 watt amp I shouldn't need a preamp. I now need to look at BEC ideas to see if I can derive a regulated 12volt 5amp supply from the 10S4P flight battery and do so with no interference issues. There are number of circuit ideas on the net so it is time to start a testing program.

Just found a copy of your article in Q&E Flight John. Fantastic pioneering work you've done! I'm sure that one day sound in electric planes will be main stream but it sure is fun to be involved at this stage.

Hopefully a video of the test plane in the next few weeks.

Richard
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