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Old 08-09-2018, 08:53 AM   #1
aaindthu
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Default Will my homemade foamie fly??

I have recently finished building my RC plane out of foam. I am a complete beginner at flying rc planes but I have built several planes and crashed them all.. I do not want to crash this plane.. here are the specs...

wingspan ---------- 110m
AUW---------------- 780 grams
Motor--------------- 1000 kv
battery------------- 11.1v 2200mah 30c

Will this combination fly??
I am going to fly it first time... and i have never landed any plane in one piece.
So, Any advise ??
Here are the pics of my plane...
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:14 PM   #2
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One thing I noticed was the apparent flexibility in the rod connecting your aileron servo to the aileron. These need to be rigid or they may not deflect at all or deflect unequally.


Also be sure your CG is set correctly. That could certainly cause problems.


Let us know how it goes.

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Old 08-09-2018, 09:43 PM   #3
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It looks too short between the wing and tail to me. This could make it very touchy to fly.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:18 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
One thing I noticed was the apparent flexibility in the rod connecting your aileron servo to the aileron. These need to be rigid or they may not deflect at all or deflect unequally.


Also be sure your CG is set correctly. That could certainly cause problems.


Let us know how it goes.
Jim,

Thank you for your reply.
The ailerons connecting rods ended up being too large
and that caused a constant deflection of the ailerons when
the servo was at neutral.
And i permanently glued the control horns and servos into their places. So I could not remove the connecting rods. So the only way that I could fix the deflection of ailerons at neutral position was to forcefully bend the connecting rods.
It is still rigid. I made that connecting rods out of safety pins/ diaper pins.
So it should be stiff right?

My plane weighed 24 ounces or 680 grams. But i added 3.6 ounce to the nose to shift the cg forward. Now cg is around 30-40% from the leading edge. Should i still move it forward??

regards,

Aaindthu
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
It looks too short between the wing and tail to me. This could make it very touchy to fly.
Panther, Hi!

Yes you are correct. Actually the servo wires and connecting rods available to me were of limited length and were not enough.
so i cut a considerable amount of tail from the fuselage and removed it.

Could you please give me some advise on flying a touchy plane?
Should i move the Transmitter sticks minimally? will that solve the problem?
What should I do??
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:19 AM   #6
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Yes, put some expo on the pitch and move your CG forward maybe between 25 and 30 %
rather than back at 40%.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
Yes, put some expo on the pitch and move your CG forward maybe between 25 and 30 %
rather than back at 40%.
I will move the cg forward as you said

I am sorry but what do you mean by "expo on the pitch"

I do not understand.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:43 AM   #8
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Low wing ... short fuselage ... 30 - 40% CoG .....

All items that do not look good for success. I applaud your effort in building though ...

Keep us posted on your progress.

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Old 08-10-2018, 05:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by aaindthu View Post
I will move the cg forward as you said

I am sorry but what do you mean by "expo on the pitch"

I do not understand.

If your transmitter has an adjustment for exponential on the pitch axis, you can slow down the movement of the elevator. That is something that may or may not be available on your transmitter.

Jim
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:56 AM   #10
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Sorry, yes, you may not have expo on your TX. Just reduce the throws well down, especially the elevator. (pitch) It is not possible to tell you how much. It is a trial and error thing really. Good luck.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:53 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Panther View Post
Sorry, yes, you may not have expo on your TX. Just reduce the throws well down, especially the elevator. (pitch) It is not possible to tell you how much. It is a trial and error thing really. Good luck.
I will keep that in mind... to reduce throws
& move CG forward

I also spent some time on the simulator...
so i am a little confident this time

I am just waiting for my camera to arrive
wanted to film it.. how it goes.

thanks a lot
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:53 AM   #12
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aaindthu
I am a bit concerned at the weight you have added - with more still to come to get a 25% chord CofG and 25% really is a 'must' with your thick flat bottomed wing section.
The extra weight simply makes the plane fly faster and crash harder! With your level of RC experience extra weight is the one thing you do not want.
Is there no way you could move the battery forward to achieve the desired CofG without having to add so much (or even any!) nose weight.
In fact it is better for the plane to be naturally a bit nose heavy as it only takes a small amount of tail weight to correct it as the tail is much further away from the balance point than the nose.
What is the specification of your motor? (Watts on 3s). 1000 kV only indicates the speed it will rotate.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by quorneng View Post
aaindthu
I am a bit concerned at the weight you have added - with more still to come to get a 25% chord CofG and 25% really is a 'must' with your thick flat bottomed wing section.
The extra weight simply makes the plane fly faster and crash harder! With your level of RC experience extra weight is the one thing you do not want.
Is there no way you could move the battery forward to achieve the desired CofG without having to add so much (or even any!) nose weight.
In fact it is better for the plane to be naturally a bit nose heavy as it only takes a small amount of tail weight to correct it as the tail is much further away from the balance point than the nose.
What is the specification of your motor? (Watts on 3s). 1000 kV only indicates the speed it will rotate.

Quorneng,

You have completely understood my dilemma
The battery is positioned as forward as possible as seen in the picture.
And I have added 4 nails to the nose
Now my flying weight is 834 grams or 29.4 ounces.
I have made a cross on the wing with pen.. as seen in the picture.
that is the CoG...
Do you think that is forward enough??
I do not know how to calculate the watts of my brushless motor
it is an ipower ix series ibm2212-13 and 1000 kv motor
Please do advise..

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Old 08-11-2018, 04:33 PM   #14
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I applaud your efforts here, to design, build, then learn to fly all on your own. That's tough to do.

You might consider a slightly different approach, building one of the established and published simple designs that will make your journey much simpler. Something like the Old Fogey, Slowly, or Blu-Baby should work and the plans and discussions are available all over the web.

These use foam board or construction insulation sheets cut to shape. Here in the US we have the foam board available at our dollar stores at a $1.00 per sheet, a sheet being roughly 500 x 760 mm and 5 mm thick. They are foam with paper on each side, and two or three sheets will be enough for a plane.

You might also look at the Flite Test website https://www.flitetest.com for ideas. The Old Fogey is at https://www.flitetest.com/articles/F..._Scratch_Build

And in my opinion, build your trainers big, light, and cheap. If you don't absolutely have to have something to make it fly, get rid of it and that includes paint. Excess weight is your biggest barrier to success. Get the C/G correct and do so without having to add weight if at all possible.

Stay with it, and you'll succeed. Some of the best builders and flyers on the forum have already checked in, take their advice.

Keep us posted, and your photos are appreciated.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:49 PM   #15
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Found this info on his motor on the web:

iPower Motor iBM2212Q 1000KV Brushless Motor for RC Multirotor

iPower Q-series brushless motors are designed specifically for use in multi rotor aircraft. iPower motors are constructed of quality components, making them a smooth, powerful, and efficient motor for your multicopter application. Each 2212 motor features 450mm long motor wires and 3.5mm male gold bullet connectors pre-installed. Also included is an accessory package with mount plate, bolt-on style prop adapter, and a set of female 3.5mm gold bullet connectors for your ESC.

iPower iBM2212Q Specifications:

KV: 1000
Internal Resistance: 127mΩ
No-Load Current: .5A
Max Current: 13.80A
Continuous Current: 10.8A
Max Watts: 150W
Lipo Cells: 2-3s
Weight: 65g (with hardware)
Dimensions: 28x26mm
Wire length: 75mm
Shaft Diameter: 3.175mm
Recommended Prop: 10x4.5 / 10x4.5R
Recommended ESC: 22A

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Old 08-11-2018, 04:59 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Abuelo View Post
Found this info on his motor on the web:

iPower Motor iBM2212Q 1000KV Brushless Motor for RC Multirotor

iPower Q-series brushless motors are designed specifically for use in multi rotor aircraft. iPower motors are constructed of quality components, making them a smooth, powerful, and efficient motor for your multicopter application. Each 2212 motor features 450mm long motor wires and 3.5mm male gold bullet connectors pre-installed. Also included is an accessory package with mount plate, bolt-on style prop adapter, and a set of female 3.5mm gold bullet connectors for your ESC.

iPower iBM2212Q Specifications:

KV: 1000
Internal Resistance: 127mΩ
No-Load Current: .5A
Max Current: 13.80A
Continuous Current: 10.8A
Max Watts: 150W
Lipo Cells: 2-3s
Weight: 65g (with hardware)
Dimensions: 28x26mm
Wire length: 75mm
Shaft Diameter: 3.175mm
Recommended Prop: 10x4.5 / 10x4.5R
Recommended ESC: 22A
Abuelo,

thank you very much for the info on the motor.
do you think it is enough for a 834 grams flying weight??
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:14 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Abuelo View Post
I applaud your efforts here, to design, build, then learn to fly all on your own. That's tough to do.

You might consider a slightly different approach, building one of the established and published simple designs that will make your journey much simpler. Something like the Old Fogey, Slowly, or Blu-Baby should work and the plans and discussions are available all over the web.

These use foam board or construction insulation sheets cut to shape. Here in the US we have the foam board available at our dollar stores at a $1.00 per sheet, a sheet being roughly 500 x 760 mm and 5 mm thick. They are foam with paper on each side, and two or three sheets will be enough for a plane.

You might also look at the Flite Test website https://www.flitetest.com for ideas. The Old Fogey is at https://www.flitetest.com/articles/F..._Scratch_Build

And in my opinion, build your trainers big, light, and cheap. If you don't absolutely have to have something to make it fly, get rid of it and that includes paint. Excess weight is your biggest barrier to success. Get the C/G correct and do so without having to add weight if at all possible.

Stay with it, and you'll succeed. Some of the best builders and flyers on the forum have already checked in, take their advice.

Keep us posted, and your photos are appreciated.
Abuelo,

I am still confident that this time around I will successfully fly my plane.
Here is my plan...

I have a rcdeskpilot simulator and i have connected my flysky transmitter
to pc and i have been recently flying airplanes for some time in the sim.
it was fun really.. and i got the hang of it slowly.

Now I only hope that my plane behaves well...
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:38 AM   #18
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RCDeskPilot ... if its the free one is actually an old setup and based on FMS ....

I would suggest a better SIM is something such as CLEARVIEW ... OK - I accept it costs money - but its way less than even a budget foamie plane ...

Nigel

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Old 08-12-2018, 06:18 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
RCDeskPilot ... if its the free one is actually an old setup and based on FMS ....

I would suggest a better SIM is something such as CLEARVIEW ... OK - I accept it costs money - but its way less than even a budget foamie plane ...

Nigel
I tried CLEARVIEW as well... till the free trial period expired

And i agree it was better. But for now, I'll settle for RCDeskPilot.
Thank you for you suggestion Nigel.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:03 PM   #20
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aaindthu
As Abuelo pointed out your motor has a maximum rating of 150W
834 g is 1.83 lbs. This gives you a power loading of 82 W per lb.
This is only just about adequate and assumes you are actually getting the full 150 W and that it is all being used effectively.
What prop are you using?
The recommended is a 10x4.5 but this is for a quad application to achieve maximum hovering thrust.
A plane needs to develop maximum thrust whilst going forward so you might be better with a 9x6. It will give less 'static' thrust but considerably more at the sort of speed your plane is likely to fly at.
However it is quite easy to 'over prop' a motor in the search for the required performance. It will then draw more current than it, and the speed controller, can handle and they will fail.
How and where is the speed controller mounted?
If you do get the plane to fly for any length of time (5 minutes?) you need to ensure it has plenty of cooling air flowing over it. If it gets too hot it will either temporarily cut out or simply fail.
Have you considered cutting off the whole nose of you plane and extending it a bit so you can remove all the extra nose weight?

You could of course wait until you have crashed it and then rebuild it with a longer nose!
I would make the tail a bit longer at the same time.

Perhaps you can see why the advice for first time builders is to use an existing design/plan which providing you follow the recommendations will mean somebody has all ready proved it will not only fly but do so reliably. All you have to do is build it.

Do let us know how you get on.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Abuelo View Post
.........
You might consider a slightly different approach, building one of the established and published simple designs that will make your journey much simpler. Something like the Old Fogey, Slowly, or Blu-Baby should work and the plans and discussions are available all over the web...............

............You might also look at the Flite Test website https://www.flitetest.com for ideas. The Old Fogey is at https://www.flitetest.com/articles/F..._Scratch_Build

...................
Stay with it, and you'll succeed. Some of the best builders and flyers on the forum have already checked in, take their advice.

Please read and re-read the advice above given by one of the excellent builders on this site. If taken, that advice will save you time, money and much frustration....


In addition, pay close heed to the advice given to you by quorneng, another one of the more proficient and better builders here. IMO, it would do you much good in reading through some of the build threads quorneng has hosted on this site...... Good Luck to you...
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:32 PM   #22
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High wing designs are more stable than low wing designs.


What is the difference between wing incidence angle and stabilizer incidence angle?

As we say overhere: (way way) too much hay on your pitchfork. No design experience, no building experience no flying experience/routine, no setup experience, this will not end well, in a very short time. Sorry to be so blunt. You will learn a lot from this, which is good, but this is not the way to learn to fly.

Do yourself, your equipment, your wallet and your ego a big favour ...
Advice for getting into flying RC airplanes, and how not to - The Ampeer

Some well-structured reading and handy e-tools for rainy/windy days.
Will save you, and us a lot of questions. Notably the 'what went wrong?' kind of questions
Will also prevent you from burning up several controllers and/or motors and/or battery:
E-flight primer and tools

And please, do your RC equipment, wallet, ego, battery, controller, motor, house/garage/car a big favour ... get a watt-meter. It will more than pay for itself, will save you at least one fried motor and one fried controller. Will also help you finding the best setup.
And keep watt-/multi-meter wires short
too long wires batteryside will kill ESC over time: precautions, solutions & workarounds


Vriendelijke groeten Ron

Vriendelijke groeten Ron
Without a watt-meter you are in the dark, until something starts to glow
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:36 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ron_van_sommeren View Post
High wing designs are more stable than low wing designs.


What is the difference between wing incidence angle and stabilizer incidence angle?

As we say overhere: (way way) too much hay on your pitchfork. No design experience, no building experience no flying experience/routine, no setup experience, this will not end well, in a very short time. Sorry to be so blunt. You will learn a lot from this, which is good, but this is not the way to learn to fly.

Do yourself, your equipment, your wallet and your ego a big favour ...
Advice for getting into flying RC airplanes, and how not to - The Ampeer

Some well-structured reading and handy e-tools for rainy/windy days.
Will save you, and us a lot of questions. Notably the 'what went wrong?' kind of questions
Will also prevent you from burning up several controllers and/or motors and/or battery:
E-flight primer and tools

And please, do your RC equipment, wallet, ego, battery, controller, motor, house/garage/car a big favour ... get a watt-meter. It will more than pay for itself, will save you at least one fried motor and one fried controller. Will also help you finding the best setup.
And keep watt-/multi-meter wires short
too long wires batteryside will kill ESC over time: precautions, solutions & workarounds


Vriendelijke groeten Ron

Excellent advice, as usual.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
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