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Old 08-02-2010, 03:23 PM   #326
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Default

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi there!

I guess the co-pilot didn't need the yaw string??? What ever happened to the needle and ball - no time for a cross check; or didn't the B-47 pilot and co-pilot use 'em?

Cheers,

Dave P.
They used the principle of Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.

"Dum spiro spero." (While I breathe, I hope).
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Old 08-02-2010, 04:06 PM   #327
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Default Forward View Obstructed

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi there!

I guess the co-pilot didn't need the yaw string??? What ever happened to the needle and ball - no time for a cross check; or didn't
the B-47 pilot and co-pilot use 'em? Cheers, Dave P.
I finally went through my canopy documentation and found two small images showing difference between the sliding and clam shell
canopies. The co-pilot simply became a roasted peanut without benefit of a breeze with the sliding canopy. There is an overhead
sun shade but I doubt it helped much.



Forward view from the rear seat was extremely poor at best. I recently found an aricle describing a landing by a co-pilot who blew
canopy off of the cockpit and successfully landed a B-47.

Per the online article in the B-47.com web site composed by Jim Diamond who has posted within this thead...I found these just a
few moments ago as I revisited my documentation.



A more recent view of DFC recepiant Jim Obenauf after retirement...


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Old 08-02-2010, 07:45 PM   #328
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Default

Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
Here is a good photo of the "Yaw String" seen from about 30 degrees over the forward fueslage of a B-47E with the canopy removed.


Tell-Tail is seen ahead of fuselage centerline painted point of reference. Note chute cord has a frayed trailing end. I assume fray
permitted cord to trail in a more stable manner instead of flipping about. Fray would function like the tail on a kite.

Looking ahead of the cord attachment ring, there is a recessed plane that I suspect was created for the navigator sextent periscope.
Low pressure area immediately behind the "ridge" formed by rear of the flat plane would make for a more stable low pressure air stream
amidst the blast ahead of it...aka a perfect location for the Tell-Tail.
Last but definately not least is to repost the canopy paper doll...


The paper doll template for the canopy is on our B-47E CD and it can be resized to whatever you need because its a .pdf in high rez.

ha. another memory hit......the sextent port.....flying around upstate NY lowlevel we killed a lot of bugs....cup of water under port, start windshield wiper, open port ....instant bug remover....

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Old 08-02-2010, 07:51 PM   #329
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Default Co-pilot's Periscoptic Sextant....

Reminds me of the drive up bank teller station pneumatic tubes. Strong coffee had enough acid to clear up any bug juice...

By the way...I have a question that I can't find an answer to...and I gave up until I see you are familar with the periscoptic
sextant onboard the B-47. The copilot had a second periscoptic sextant. I find it hard to believe it was used "looking" through
the Plexiglass canopy... Was their a port in the side of the fuselage through which that protruded?

Below you can see there is a storage location to the left rear aft of co-pilot's cockpit see lower left of the image below. I have
another photo viewing the area to the forward right of this image....somewhere I recall reference to sextant attachment or
mount...





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Old 08-02-2010, 08:58 PM   #330
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Default 3D Resources

Just might be getting really detailed with 3D...B-47 altimeter. Will find out shortly if another resource exists.




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Old 08-02-2010, 10:05 PM   #331
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Default Three Suits Make A Wardrobe...

Today has been interesting to say the least. I stumbled into a photo taken in 1954 of three B-47 crew members...all dressed differently


(L)Khaki (C)Green (R)Blue



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Old 08-03-2010, 12:19 AM   #332
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Default Ockham's String Razor

Originally Posted by Voyager2lcats View Post
They used the principle of Occam's razor: the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
Yike! I thought ol' Bill Ockham posited the dictum "pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate," meaning (more or less) multiplicity ought to be avoided unless necessary - well, maybe the old ball/needle did have a few more moving parts, but all the aircraft I flew had 'em, and we did use them.

According to one (retired) B-47 pilot I've been exchanging emails with, some of the aircraft in his wing did have the little string things, but he and other pilots never used them.

Anyone got any first-hand reports on the use of Ockham's string by B-47 pilots (I assume the copilot couldn't use it even if he wanted to ...)?

Ed: will you put this little 'eye candy' on your model??

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:28 AM   #333
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Default B-47 Low Tech Crab/Yaw Indicator

Dave,

I believe we are discussing two different items.

String being described was present on all B-47 to my knowledge. This is a mechanical visual-aid to indicate crab angle of fuselage
vs. direction fuselage is moving during a final approach or over-the-top during an Immelmann/LABS maneuver.

Center line painted on nose beneath string is parallel to fuselage and at right angle to the pair of bicycle landing gear axles. String
"always" follows direction the airframe is moving vs. direction nose of the B-47 is pointed...aka misalignment of axles and tires.

Resulting angle differential between painted centerline beneath string and the string provides a mechanical means of observing the
correction of yaw/crab prior to contact with the runway. Pressing either left or right rudder will move painted centerline parallel to
the runway. Critical alignment permits fore and aft landing gear to survive tire contact with a runway during touchdown.

Aren't you describing manual heading maintenance during a visual bombing run.


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Old 08-03-2010, 03:08 AM   #334
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Default Strings

Hi Ed!

I'd guess the string would follow the airflow over the fuselage in the area where it was installed, with no necessary relation to the aircraft centerline or the wheel-truck axels. In any event, the ball and needle instrument (when properly incorporated in an instrument cross check - something every military pilot was taught to do) would normally be the first choice for any indication of a yaw condition. I'd be interested to read some responses from some/any B-47 pilots following this thread (maybe you were one of them???) for their take on this little gimmick.

Regarding the use of the 'string' during the toss-bomb maneuver, there is no mention of the use of such a device in the USAF and Boeing films that I have; these films show how, and at what gross weights and entering airspeeds, the B-47 airframe was qualified for doing this maneuver. And, as you know, this profile was only used for a very short time before it was discontinued by all B-47 wings. One of the references I have on the toss-bomb profile indicates that, after initiating the pull-up, the pilot monitored two needles (on the instrument panel) that showed azimuth and g-force analogs; the pilot 'flew the needles' to make the proper pull-up path, and during/after roll on starting down from the top, turned the aircraft to proper exit heading. Especially during the near-stall, high buffet conditions near the top of the Immelmann (or Cuban 8), I would think the string would be useless.

As noted earlier, I've only had the one comment from an ex-B47 pilot on this; maybe other (B-47 pilots) have different experiences with the string thing.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:50 AM   #335
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Default Managing Heading With Tell-Tails

Dave,

At the apex, aka slowest point of the Immelmann the B-47 comes to a near stall. The string will react faster (slack up and wig
wag off heading) than an axis ball gyro can settle back down during the approach to and through the near stall, especially one
from this early jet era. Cross axis orientation of airframe is what causes a heading change over the top of the Immelmann as
previously illustrated in the USAF film footage I posted.

My documentation states the LABS was hands off after the I.P. was reached with the apex solution preprogrammed and outside
the pilots control. I read where they monitored the "g-meter" (what ever the real name is) so they would have throttle over ride
capability through the maneuver.

String was used during the landing approach because the pilot constantly watched the direction of aircraft motion (string) vs
the airframe's centerline (represented by the painted line on nose). That could not be observed with an axis ball gyro...if one
was incorporated into the B-47 because the runway is "the" convergence solution.


I believe there may be a seperate turn and bank and artifical horizon instead of a combination cross-axis ball gyro on the B-47. I will
have to go look but I think they were individual instruments and not combined or were individual in addition to an axis ball gyro.


That is the reason the string was used during landing approach when the pilot had to constantly keep an eye on the runway centerline
to be sure his wheels were lined up with the B-47's direction of motion at the moment of contact.

As for eye candy, yes the string will be on my B-47, but not as a worthless eye candy... It is an extremely important element of my
model with respect to my craftsmanship points and the craftsmanship judge I know who is an authority on the B-47E-IV. :^) When a
participant enters a scale contest it is important to enter well armed and prepared to play the game to his or her advantage...if one is
expecting to win.

Whether the LABS was performed beyond a given disclosure date of airframe damage does not matter. The LABS provides an opportunity
for a normally boring bomber flight plan to be a pleasant surprise to those two sitting and writing on my score sheets.


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Old 08-03-2010, 06:50 PM   #336
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Default B-47 String Theory

Hi Ed!

OK, I'm ready to surrender!

As I noted, I've not been able to learn any details of B-47 pilot's use of the 'string' (except the one I mentioned earlier). No such 'string' was installed/used on any of the aircraft I flew while in the USAF, but, for sure, my experience was limited. I do recall seeing one on a sail plane that one of my Boeing ex-bosses gave me a ride in (he was 'president' of the Boeing glider/sailplane club, and a retired USAF col.). JR didn't mention what he used it for, but I think it was used as a indicator for slip.

I believe the B-47 had an autopilot (as part of the K4 bomb/nav system), and there was some experiments/pilot's use of the autopilot for the toss-bomb profile, but my understanding is that this was discouraged, and not widely used. The heading change when the aircraft is rolled from the inverted position (beyond the top of the Immelmann) is due to the lift vector change as the aircraft is rolled.

In all the VFR landings I made in military aircraft, visual references were outside the cockpit (the horizon, runway centerline, etc.). I can't imagine a pilot doing much more than making a brief glance at the 'string' during this (approach/landing) critical phase of flight. The cross-wind landing approach on the B-47 was 'wing-low'/nose into the cross-wind, with the aircraft being leveled and turned just prior to touchdown, as far as I know, so there was no way to keep the wheel trucks parallel with the runway centerline during a cross-wind approach.

I don't know what instrument you're referring to ("axis ball gyro") - maybe this was something after my time. The old 'needle and ball' (turn/bank) indicator that I was taught to use did have a gyro for the bank indicator; the 'ball' was in a glass tube damped by fluid of some sort. Also, don't know what you're referring to in your comment about the runway being the convergence solution ... probably due to my ancient college education and USAF flying experiences.

I hope you'll get some comments from some B-47 pilots!

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:41 PM   #337
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Default Misunderstanding Competitive Flying Scale Modeling Requirements

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi Ed! OK, I'm ready to surrender!
I hope you'll get some comments from some B-47 pilots! Cheers,
Dave P.
Dave,

Don't understand your "surrender" statement. I believe the confusion is within the premise and protocol of competitive flying scale
modeling...the requirement to perform maneuvers explicit to an aircraft or attributed to the family of aircraft the model belongs to.

I currently have written descriptions and artist renderings defining the B-47 LABS maneuver with which to provide "the" definition
for a LABS "as published" to my flight judges. Being published is the "only" requirement...

The LABS maneuver was not exclusive to B-47s. There are multiple LABS maneuvers performed by fighters as well. Some performed
during a loop as well as modified Immelmanns. One was an over the shoulder delivered nuke...by an F-84 and F-100.

My written and illustrated descriptions of the LABS sequence with "faults" associated with its performance will appear as incorrect
(if compared to a normal Immelmann). The heading change is one of the "expected" differentials as well as the pronounced hump
shape of the dive down and away instead of the normal sustained altitude and heading of an Immelmann.

The pronounced change in heading described in the written descriptions is an escape valve for my performance of the maneuver.
Remember the statements I made about playing "the game" to a competitors advantage? That is necessary because scale judging
is extremely inconsistant... The only consistant judging out there is FAI F4C and it has its moments. ;^)

My flight judges will be provided a sheet of paper printed with the sequence of slides defining the LABS. The slides were created by
Boeing. The artist renderings of the LABS was created by Boeing. The film I posted clips of earlier was created by Boeing. All that
matters is the maneuver is documented using published sources for proof...nothing more, nothing less.

Judges know nothing about the planes they judge in static and flight competition except what the competitor provides them to
compare to the model during static presentation and flight presentation portions of the contest. They are forbidden to bring their
real world knowledge into play!

In reality judges carry plenty of assumption and mis-information to their task of judging. It is extremely difficult to leave it all behind
if they judge something as common as a P-51, P-40, B-17, B-24, even an F-100... However, to my knowledge there have only been
(3) three B-47's ever flown in competition...all nearly 50 years ago.

These are toy airplanes...close to being a replica sometimes...but rarely achieved if it competes in competitive flying scale modeling.

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Old 08-03-2010, 08:15 PM   #338
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Default

Parts of scale judging are naturally highly subjective, especially the flight manuevers.

I remember a letter to the editor in Model Builder about the writer complaining getting docked points because he banked his B-17 model steeper than the judges thought proper - although the writer was a former B-17 pilot, and tried to explain just how manueverable the 17 really was. I can just see somebody trying to explain to a judge after demonstrating the type of flying an A-26 was capable of in order to have knocked down at least 9 FW-190s (according to the Wings episode on the A-26 invader. But, they would probably fully accept an outside loop with a model P-47 (specifically forbidden-only read about it being done once-with the pilot surviving, although with a badly strained back! He was almost court-martialed for it.)

I love scale models, but I'm not sure I'd want to go through the hoops for competition, even for FAC peanut scale.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:56 PM   #339
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Default Nothing Complicated About Scale Competition...did you know...

The competition environment is really not a difficult one and there is no pressure because you are "not" competing against any
one else. This is a common misunderstanding due to people who look upon it as a high pressure personal comparison of a pilot
to another pilot and their aircraft. This is assumed out of "ignorance and assumption"...and simply not true.

To help people understand what's going on here I created this tri-fold brochure four or five years ago for contest directors to
hand out to all the spectators standing behind the spectator line... to answer the unasked question..."What's Going On Here?"
Scale contests are not people standing around watching paint dry...


You are competing with yourself...no one else. Your flight performance is "judged" by comparison of your flight plan performance
to prescribed maneuver definitions and typical faults encountered during each maneuver which are printed in a competition guide.
The guide is simple to understand and it is illustrated. Obviously practicing the maneuvers you select to perform would be to one's
benefit...before showing up to compete. ;^) You only select maneuvers prototypical to the family of aircraft similar to yours.

Section 1. Static CompetitionSection 3. Scale Judge Guide Section 2. Flight CompetitionSection 4. Illustrated Maneuvers

There are annual minor changes to these definitions and additional maneuvers will be added to the resource list. Nothing is strange
or difficult.... jump in and have fun...there's a scale contest near everyone.

You provide the documentation and exceptions to judges "before" you make your presentation. Literally, you stand in front of the
judges and explain what they are about to see and hand them the exception to the accepted...and assumed so your score will
not be downgraded due to the ignorance of the judges. After all, they know very little about 1:1 aircraft...much less characteristics
of the one you replicated.



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Old 08-04-2010, 05:34 PM   #340
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Default Banking On Success...

In the case of your B-17 pilot he may have been flying too fast, or not fast enough to maintain an acceptable angle of attack
through a proper arc for the family of aircraft (four engine WWII bombers) to prevent judges from thinking it was too fast or slow.


Coordinated Turn Nomograph. By drawing a straight line between any two items, the third feature of the turn can be determined.

FIGURE 2:Coordinated turn vector diagram for g-load
without skidding, adverse yaw, or change in elevation.
The g-load factor = 1/cosq when total lift provides a
vertical lift vector equal to weight.

This is known as DSS. Speed is not judged at a non-FAI competitive flying scale model event so the score for flight realism reflects
the accuracy relative to DSS. This information is also outlined in a DSS table within this online resource:
http://www.scaleaero.com/maneuver_realism_speed.htm


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Old 08-05-2010, 04:11 AM   #341
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Default

So basically, the judges personal subjective concept overuled the pilot's personal knowledge and experience as to what the plane is capable of.

For some reason, I just have this thought that in the future at least one judge could give a 0 for a LABS demo during an official flight based on his personal feelings in spite of the presentation.

I sincerely wish this plane a long and winning contest career!
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:47 PM   #342
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Default Downstream Discussion Of An Upstream Second Person Incident...

[QUOTE=50+AirYears;739782]So basically, the judges personal subjective concept overuled the pilot's personal knowledge and
experience as to what the plane is capable of. For some reason, I just have this thought that in the future at least one judge
could give a 0 for a LABS demo during an official flight based on his personal feelings in spite of the presentation. I sincerely
wish this plane a long and winning contest career![/QUOTE]

"personal subjective concept"...no, based on established protocol.

50+

There is nothing speculative with respect to your B-17 pilot's responsibility to provide evidence that his flight presentation was
proper by comparison to what is accepted as prototypical for a model replicating flight maneuvers of a B-17, B-24, B-29, Tu-4,
Tu-4 AEW, Lancaster, Sterling, etc. (Resource: http://www.scaleaero.com/figure2.gif http://www.scaleaero.com/fig2g.gif )

"In the case of your B-17 pilot he may have been flying too fast, or not fast enough to maintain an acceptable angle of attack
through a proper arc for the family of aircraft (four engine WWII bombers) to prevent judges from thinking it was too fast or slow."

Speed (alone) is not an element of competitive flying scale model judging in North America except at FAI F4C events. Score for
a speed related issue (angles of attack) is going to appear in the 10th point entry "Flight Realism".

If there was an exception to published and accepted "prototypical" flight of the B-17 your friend competed with, it is your friend's
responsibility to provide physical evidence of the exception or preable the flight with a verbal description of the exception "before"
he began his flights. That is contest protocol. It is a contestant's responsibility to manage his presentation.

In radical exception, the protocol requires a competitor to gather documentation in support of the declared exception. Documentation
of the exception is typically presented to an official prior to an event, but could occur at the event, for review and acceptance as an
exception...this is protocol.

A competitor should always compose a reply letter for the official to sign and date. Once it is accepted, presentation of the document
as evidence a "claim of exception" is acceptable...there is not going to be any issue unless the flight presentation deviates from the
detailed written exception the official signed off on. Otherwise, the pilot's preable is speculation and not an accepted exception.

Now, if the pilot prepared a presentation which focused on an exceptional incident wherein excessive evasive maneuvers were flown at
an exceptional angle of attack...described explicity as such...he would probably have not been downgraded severely. There are several
competitors who make a vivid presentation during their flight rounds. This to the extent of even dressing in proper "period" uniform or a
civilian flight suit.

These presentations are very colorful. For example Charlie Nelson described his WACO SRE aborted landing with a very loud and colorful
verbal announcement there is a "moose" walking onto the runway as heard from a control tower and the pilot announcing a go around.
Then there is Greg Hahn who vividly describes his entire "mission"...including encounters with the enemy during the entire round. Its all
about presentation and differentiation...if you want to receive superior scores.

As for my B-47... I have two videos of the B-47 performing the LABS maneuver...judges will be invited to view if they take exception to
the letter presented as acceptance of my exception. In most circles this would simply be referenced as CYA. If a competitor does not
manage their presentation...it would be rare for a scale judge to go along with a simple verbal claim of this...or that.

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Old 08-05-2010, 02:55 PM   #343
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Default More Than You Wanted To Know About Contest Scoring... :)

It is impossible to reach into someone's scale contest experience after they have had a downgrade they took exception with
and accuse judges of something less than proper...in their eyes.

The following baseline premise must be taken into consideration for "every maneuver" flown during each of multiple flight
rounds at a contest. The numerical values vary from time to time but the overall points assignment protocol remains the same.

Point Distribution Per Maneuver
(subject to constant review and value change)
1. Precision: Maximum of 5.0 points: The pilotís ability to perform the defined maneuver geometry, and when applicable, the mechanical Precision of scale operation features within a "maneuver combination".
1.1. If the maneuver does not contain a "maneuver combination", the Precision content of the maneuver will be entirely that of pilot skill, i.e. 5 point's maximum.

1.2. When brief scale operations are actively deployed within an optional "maneuver combination", the scale operation(s) Precision content will be equally divided with pilot Precision skill (or a maximum of 2.5 points each). This equal sharing of the 5 points described for total Precision which effectively shares some of the pilot Precision in maneuver geometry for a "maneuver combination" score.


1.3. Should scale operational feature(s) fail to operate or deploy in a realistic and timely manner due to either mechanical malfunction or pilot error within a "maneuver-combination", the result will be a downgrade in the score for "Precision". With this scoring method, a significant error occurring in only one portion of an optional "maneuver combination" may still leave the final score a combination of Placement and Realism instead of 0 as before.

1.4. Precision of Flaps, Slats, and Retracts is demonstrated by the prototypical operation and must be judged on the pilotís Precision in the "Overall Flight Realism" score. Precision and reliability may also be further emphasized and demonstrated within a "maneuver combination" by selecting the optional "Slow Speed Dirty Inspection Pass". Flaps, Slats, and Retracts shall not be listed with any other maneuvers for scoring as "maneuver combinations" to dilute scoring content.

2. Placement:.Maximum of 2.5 points: Most in-flight maneuvers (including those with droppables) will optimally be placed directly in front of the judges (judges centerline) beginning on the far side of the active runway (maneuvering line). This will typically be at 0 to 50 feet beyond the far side of the defined runway area for fly-by type maneuvers, but may extend further depending on the horizontal size of the maneuver performed. (NOTE: For fly-by traffic separation and safety, Jet prototypes are encouraged to position their maneuvers to the outer regions described [50 to 100 feet beyond runway] and slower propeller driven aircraft to the inner regions [0 to 50 feet beyond runway]). There are times when the sun may be directly in front of the judges so the contestant will be allowed to offset the maneuver to either side as long as the contestant informs the judges before the flight, otherwise the judges will have to default to the judges centerline for placement.
2.1. Maneuvers with horizontal symmetry (Cuban Eight, Loop, Roll, Figure 8, etc.) should have their midpoint on the judges centerline with equal distance on each side for optimal score.
Placement content will also be divided in emphasis between the maneuver and optimum scale operation deployment position.

2.2. Some maneuvers due to their asymmetry are offset from judging center for best viewing, such as a Stall Turn or Wingover. Also the Procedure Turn is positioned in the Scale Masters Program where the initial 90 degree turn away from the runway begins before reaching judging center, and the remaining 270 degree turn starts at judging center to the left or right. (NOTE: This is identical in desired position as the start of the mandatory figure eight for optimum judging view.)

2.3. Although the Placement of a maneuver normally represents only 2.5 points content, a greater penalty deduction will be imposed in the interest of safety when maneuvers are performed unnecessarily close to the flight line (over the runway) as described in "Runway Safety and Dead line Infractions" of this Guide. Runway "Placement-critical" maneuvers will effectively have Precision and Placement content combined for needed emphasis in scoring. For all maneuvers some severe forms of Placement problems may impair the judges ability to accurately score Precision or Realism content, in which case all score contents may suffer accordingly.

2.4. Optimum Placement of bomb drops will be defined as the point of impact in front of the judges at the far side of the defined runway. When discussed with judges prior to flight, the maneuver may be performed slightly to the left or right of the judges center line for best viewing. Relative targeting accuracy for determining Optimum Placement score will be dependent on release elevation (high level versus low level bombardment), and the typical accuracy level corresponding to that prototypical mission. Parachute or empty tank drops will be scored for Optimum Placement as point of release rather than impact, since wind conditions may unpredictably affect point of landing.


2.5. The optimum Placement of flaps, slats, and retract deployment is only included in Overall Flight Realism "Continuity" unless the optional "maneuver combination" of Slow Speed Dirty Inspection Pass is also selected.


Consider the stability or "smoothness" aspects of each maneuver as well as the power management (throttle) expected for that specific maneuver of the model compared to its full size counterpart. Both of these considerations will be influenced by aircraft design and wind conditions. Since slow, light-weight aircraft will be much more visibly influenced by wind than fast heavier aircraft, wind conditions should be taken into account during judging.

Maneuvers should appear realistic in scale size of performance (site and conditions permitting). Attitude, bank angle and g-loading appearance through turns should be consistent with those generally observed in the full-size. With scale-size maneuvers, these prototypical attitude features are achieved through use of an optimum speed relationship to the full size aircraft.


3. Realism: Maximum of 2.5 points: The Realism content of scoring is also described by the AMA Guide in rule 2.3, pp. 141-142. The following is added for further emphasis or definition. Realism content will also be approximately divided in emphasis between maneuver and scale operation when applicable to a "maneuver combination".The Realism content of the score is based upon the pilots skill to perform only those maneuvers capable of the full size aircraft in a manner as if watching the prototype in actual flight. The size, shape, and speed of aerobatic maneuvers performed by a contestant should reflect the capabilities of the full size prototype. For example, it would be expected that a loop performed by a J-3 Cub would be smaller in diameter and egg-shaped compared to a P-51 Mustang if both models were of the same scale. The speed at which such maneuvers are performed should also reflect the capabilities of the prototype. Consideration should also be given to throttle position during aerobatics. In many full-scale prop driven aircraft, power must be reduced at the point of maximum altitude in a vertical maneuver before entry into the descent portion. Execution of such maneuvers by a model at a constant full throttle setting should be downgraded in Realism portion.

Ultimately it all comes down to reading the resources and following protocol because the "faults" (errors) for each maneuver is provided in writing right there with the accepted proper maneuver graphic representation. Illustrated Maneuvers


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Old 08-05-2010, 07:59 PM   #344
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Default More Easily Understood?

Originally Posted by 50+AirYears View Post
So basically, the judges personal subjective concept overuled the pilot's personal knowledge and
experience as to what the plane is capable of. For some reason, I just have this thought that in the future at least one judge
could give a 0 for a LABS demo during an official flight based on his personal feelings in spite of the presentation.

I sincerely wish this plane a long and winning contest career!
50+,

Did that explain it more clearly?


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Old 08-05-2010, 08:37 PM   #345
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Default B-47 LABS Toss Bombing Maneuver Film Footage

The following will provide a clearer understanding of the LABS maneuver(s).



There are two maneuvers comprising the LABS (Low Altitude Bombing System). Film above shows the initial LABS protocol wherein
an aircraft, in this case a B-47, enters a shallow dive to accelerate after climbing from a low altitude approach. Weapon release is
system calculated to occur at a precise altitude above midway point of a half loop. Maneuver resembles an Immelmann and named
for the reversal maneuver. Initial LABS protocol ends with B-47 flying 180 degrees away from target at highest speed possible.



Second LABS maneuver is initiated approaching at low altitude and high speed. Crossing the I.P. (Initial Point) resolution calculated
by LABS automatic release system either the pilot or bombardier/navigator activate the prescribed weapon delivery program. As is
the case in the first LABS maneuver, throttle, all flight control, and weapon release occur automatically at precise time and altitude.

When utilized in the B-47, the second LABS maneuver is initiated by a 3G vertical climb on a heading X amount of time from the I.P.
At a system calculated point during the vertical arc of a Half Cuban Eight the LABS releases weapon on a precise trajectory placing
it on target a considerable distance away. Immediately after crossing top of half loop the B-47 initiates a 45 degree high speed dive
180 degrees out from the target. Reaching a prescribed low altitude, the B-47 initiates an oblique turn from target to avoid the blast
shock wave.




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Old 08-05-2010, 08:47 PM   #346
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Default

Sure did. Thanks for the update.
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Old 08-07-2010, 04:12 AM   #347
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Default LABS Performed By Multiple Aircraft

This is a modified LABS wherein the F-84 delivered its nuke "over the shoulder". The B-47 never performed this maneuver.


The F-100 performed the LABS in the same manner as the B-47.

Here is Les Fraziers LABS Story or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Idiot Loop"




Bob Hoey's left wing hard point mounted "Special Store"... Here is Bob's LABS story...


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Old 08-08-2010, 10:20 PM   #348
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Default LABS Film

This helps further illustrate the LABS maneuver viewed from outside and within the B-47.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqIJL8lx00o
Click above if the YouTube launch fails to execute. I found the YouTube link fails from time to time.


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Old 08-14-2010, 02:40 PM   #349
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Default Air Foil Tool For You...Online...FREE USE



I acquired an online airfoil application which provides information in clearer graphic form than the one I orginally posted. You can
print directly from the online application... It contains over 1750 airfoils! http://www.worldofkrauss.com/foils/1423

BACXXX foil of B-47 appears below with angle of attack effeciency graph. Note the maximum lift effeciency is between 6 and 7
degrees then it falls off the sled. If you have the batteries to sustain this model it should fly like a kite.


Thickness:11.3%
Camber:1.4%
Trailing edge angle:15.0
Lower flatness:49.5%
Leading edge radius:0.8%
Max Lift CL:1.231 CL= Lift Coeff.
Max Lift CL angle: 8.5 CL= Lift Coeff.
Max Lift/Drag L/D:41.464
Max Lift/Drag L/D angle:7.0
Max Lift/Drag L/D CL:1.077 CL= Lift Coeff.
Stall angle:8.5
Zero-lift angle:-2.0


The online application will generate SVG images that can be scaled, printed, plotted, scanned, CAD'd, CAM'd etc... The images
below were generated by AID...copy pasted into Microsoft's Image Composer then saved as a .jpg for posting here.

I could have just as easily saved as .dwg, or .dxf for milling or hot wiring the entire wing. The online program will provide the entire
wing by number of "ribs" for a built up wing.

The best way to do that is declare a shorter cord then let the program generate all the foils...yes it asks number of points (ribs).
When generated, copy~paste image in a graphics editor (MS Image Composer, MS Office Picture Manager, Windows Picture And Fax
Viewer, MS Paint, Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Photoshop, or whatever you have in your computer...then edit its size to fit your requirement.

Note, the plot is leading edge justified... After considering sweep you can draw spar slots, etc...enlarge and save accordingly to the
need.



Airfoil aerodynamic characteristics. Figure (a) shows the aerodynamic force acting on an airfoil. This force may be separated into lift
and drag components, as shown in figure (b). Figure (c) illustrates lift, drag, and moment about the quarter-chord point-all a function
of the angle of attack a while figure (d) shows the lift, drag, and moment about the aerodynamic center. The above is illustrated with
a 25% aerodynamic center. With the 36 degree sweep this illustration is augmented between root (airfoil @ side of fuselage) and tip.

The Boeing supplied CG data was based on 25% of MAC...on the B-47's 36 degree 38 minute rearward sweep. Click image below to
enlarge in a new window and save...


Hope this is considered helpful...


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Old 08-17-2010, 08:39 PM   #350
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Default Flip'n Flaps

Sam's Flip'n Flaps are looking better than ever. Here's a look at the carbon fiber inner-tubes..... Remember this is a late 40's design
so its not "tubeless".... Me Bad!













Obviously the flap locomotion footprint is greatly improved... Down to 3.25" front to rear. There is an inch beyond the wing cut
out...which extends to 3 flap hinge point(s) aka points of rotation across flap leading edge.






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