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Old 11-17-2010, 02:02 PM   #451
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Default Audit & Edit Of Boeing Provided Drawings... :)

I picked up our 1:72nd Hasegawa B-47E IV kit from Sam so I can audit and edit fillet forms to conform to our
photographic documentation. Yes, there is a reason for all that hunting in the wilderness between last
Thanksgiving and New Years Day. Yes, you have to spend the time to build a diverse photo documentation
index...typically 4 to 6 photos per focus item.

Hasegawa kit No. K007-2200. I know...this probably reads as weird science to the majority of thread followers
considering I have Boeing drawings to work from....hummmm Remember the drawings were drawn by an
artist with less than mechancial illustration accuracy in 1955~56...amidst strict Cold War security...except of
course for replica ashtrays...
Its no surprise the B-47E tail feathers on the Boeing drawings leave a lot to be desired. Its not as if Big Bro
wanted to provide Tupolev a how-to for building their own B-47E IV. Not like the Tu-4 and Tu-4 AEW B-29
knockoffs. Gee, I wonder why I relied on the flight performance of George's Tu-95 before I decided to build
what I wanted to build since 1956~1957.

Click underlined text to view second flight of George's Tu-95 "Bear". Yes, the B-47's wing will behave exactly
the same... http://004edc4.netsolhost.com/FliteM...d%20Flight.wmv
Look closely during takeoff rollout. The wing tips rise to just over 3.5" (three and one half inches)...at ROG.

I will post photos illustrating why this is necessary as this moves forward. By the way, don't scrimp on acquiring
documentation for your scratch builds. You are about to see why... ;^) Always acquire the largest plastic model
possible as a reference...then audit the model to photo docs to assure your documentation will match your model
when completed...

This may sound excessive...to very near OCD until you view what most of you didn't recognize as critical focal
points on the B-47E IV. There are specific intersections on models an experienced judge knows to look for
inaccuracies and what I call lazy zones. Lazy zones are where someone simply gets tired of the process of
complying do documentation...follow the d' fillets to d' soul of any model's replication accuracy...


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Old 11-17-2010, 03:30 PM   #452
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Default Inaccuracies

On my project (F-94C) I found the availble plastic models to be less than accurate. The nose cose was from a prototype and the canopy and intakes are way off. I had three views from the Lockheed files and still did not have accurate shape of the intakes.

These inaccuracies show up when comparing the drawings to the photos of the production airplane.
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:30 PM   #453
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Default

Originally Posted by SidGates View Post
On my project (F-94C) I found the availble plastic models to be less than accurate. The nose cose was from a
prototype and the canopy and intakes are way off. I had three views from the Lockheed files and still did not have accurate shape of the
intakes. These inaccuracies show up when comparing the drawings to the photos of the production airplane.
Sid,

Photo documentation is so valuable as a tie breaker amidst multiple inaccuracies. It is what it is with respect to what was available back in
the day. All too often I see modelers giving up unless they find a book or drawing on a shelf. Following this thread seems to be almost too
much for them. That is why I broke it down in its basic steps on the previous page of this thead.

When I reviewed the F-94C online, I was looking for the 2.75" documentation. It was not readily disclosed due to an apparent ignorance of
whom ever provided data workups. The same existed for the Scorpion. I've found card stock models to be a decent source of documentation.
In fact, I would not have easily arrived on my canopy template shape if it were not for a B-47E card stock model I found online for $10.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/atta...3&d=1268882820

No...this is not what I mean... :^)



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Old 11-19-2010, 01:57 AM   #454
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Default Have A Happy Thanksgiving...Y'all ! ! !


Many will be leaving Friday for an extended Thanksgiving Holiday. I want to take a moment to wish you and yours a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving.
Each day take a moment to think of a service person far from home somewhere around the world assuring we all can enjoy celebrating this hoilday
without having to look over our shoulder while enjoying the company of each and every member of your family.

To those around the world...join us in giving thanks for safe harbor and continued opportuny to see a way to share and share alike amidst every
international community. Have a wonderful holiday enjoying what matters most...God, family, and scale modeling...in that order

In the words of Leonard Simon Nimoy... "Live Long, Prosper...and build straignt"

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Old 11-19-2010, 06:34 AM   #455
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Default

And the best to you and yours!

This thread has been a great learning experience on research and what it takes to get things right.
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:56 PM   #456
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Default Onward, Upward...To The Stratosphere...

Just a quick Happy Holiday ! !

I've been preoccupied with conversion, packaging, and shipping the "Look Of The Real Thing" since Friday after Thanksgiving. Received
a long awaited shipment of raw aluminum.

Will be back on the final cross section clean up soon. Its good to take a break so I do not go off the deep end. Onward and upward...
to the Stratosphere...and beyond!


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Old 12-09-2010, 02:11 PM   #457
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Default Flap-jacks...The Breakfast Of Champions... ;^)

Good morning!

Overnight I and Sam received extremely helpful detailed information...more confirmations from Boeing B-47 maintenance resources.
Confirmation of flap bay content and component mounting. Faux detail utilizing light weight non-functional this and that for meat
and potatoes...it is what it looks like from X inches.

Note: All this is information coming from T.O. 1B-47B-2 Section III...Rev 15 October 1955.

The source of this information will not be disclosed because he obviously would get nothing else done with respect to a restoration
project that is in full swing. I will do my best to provide the obvious data required to replicate a flap bay and components accurately.

Yes, you will find legacy issues from the B-47A/B with respect to leading edge slat mechanicals. Remember they were rolled over into
the most recent revisions when appropriate. The slats were a danger quickly corrected.

In case you are new to this thread, the most complex part of building a B-47 is the inboard flap, outboard flaperon and aileron coupling.
These components took twelve months to resolve documentation and functional model systems to replicate the 1:1 Boeing B-47E IV.



Its all in the details and disclosures provided by a thread follower involved with a 1:1 B-47E IV restoration. Sometimes when it
seems nothing is going to be found...a project friend graces us with a way out of the corner I backed us into... I was learning
when I showed up day one...and haven't stopped since



Flap bay spar and hanger (cam follower arm) detail:



Outboard flap section is a flaperon through the first twenty (20)degrees of flap...documented in the T.O. image below and pilot manual.



1:1 Flap drive mechanics...we are utilizing high carbon content flexible rod-n-tube, not bell cranks on inboard flap section.



Proof in the pix...our assumptions and guesses were confirmed as the way it all hangs out there...



Just goes to show luck has a great deal to do with scale modeling details... Who'd a thunk we'd ever see photos... ;^)





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Old 12-09-2010, 07:51 PM   #458
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Default OCC...OCD...or...

Did that better explain what this is?

Flap (brass) channel (3) center top with hex head set screws (5) inserted for flap hanger (4) stops left and right.

Flap (brass) hanger race (1) silver soldered to back plate (2). (brass) hanger shuttle (6) within hanger.

Back (brass) plate ((2) silver soldered to left and right (brass) hanger race (1).





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Old 12-11-2010, 07:53 AM   #459
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Default some background.....

Hi Ed; knowing very little about the B47, I decided to do a little background reading. From what I could gather, it appears that this aircraft hads it's inspiration or genesis from earlier Luftwaffe experimentals. Being a great fan of these planes, it caught my eye straightaway. A great deal of aircraft technology was captured ( or stolen, depending on whose side you were on ) at the end of WW2. Do you have any information on which luft jet, real or imagined, that this might have been? Always keen to add to my ever growing info store
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Old 12-12-2010, 03:03 AM   #460
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Default Why The B-47 Was Implemented...

Pattern14,

Actually the U.S. Air Force is the reason the design moved from a shoulder engine straignt wing design to the pair of engines inboard and
single out board nacelle. The U.S. Air Force was afraid of what they had witnessed with engine frags...aka the com-a-part tendency of
early axial flow jet engines (non-afterburner) in proposed fighter aircraft.

I don't think that's what you wanted to read...sorry about that :^) While it is true the Germans were flying forward and rearward swept
winged designs during the last twenty four months of WWII, those designs were produced under less than perfect manufacturing conditions
with minimum spec'd material under a great deal of threat from day and night aerial bombing.

The German's only qualified success was the Me-262. Though the 163 gets a lot of press because of speed and it being a rocket, it was far
from a platform which could be depended on, take off after take off to go get the job done. Remember its tactical use that defines success.


I was fortunate to have a couple of summers with Galland while he stayed with a friend here in Houston. Germany placed itself outside of the
Allied defense mechanisms onboard bombers of the time. Taking full advantage of their capabilities with the cannons onboard the Me-262.


Tactical use of the Me-262 developed to take full advantage of its agility and time on duty station resulted in "the" fighter of WWII. Not to
mean the P-51 was a less than...they are simply not in the same class of fighter and have completely different tactical use.

The 37+ degree sweep of Boeing's B-47 coupled to a fuselage suffering from being aerodynamically too clean...presented issues I documented
in previous posts. The Dutch Roll remained the greatest threat to the design. During landing...many pilots perished at the far end of the runway
trying to tame the beast.



Finally after incorporation of complex yaw dampening that meaned output from gyros in nose and tail the yaw was pre-empted by an automated
differential rudder powered by an air chamber in the vertical fin. It took an approach parachute and a second brake chute to stabilize the beast.


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Old 12-12-2010, 09:12 AM   #461
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Default

Seems the info source on the internet search was mislead then, as they lead you to believe that the swept wing used on the the B47 was inspired by a luft design. The Arado Ar234 was a qualified success as well, being the the first recon jet to go into service, and achieving more in it's first flight than the conventional prop luft planes had done in months. Being able to overfly the U.K undetected when the allies had total air superiority speaks for itself. The Me 262 gets all the limelight Either way, lots of post war designs had their beginnings in luft experimentals, but thats all history now. Amazing you spent time with Adolf Galland though Only read his book, " the First and the Last" a couple of months back. Cheers, and I'll keep following your build with interest
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Old 12-12-2010, 03:31 PM   #462
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Default Too Slippery...When Not Wet

The U.S.A.F. more or less felt an obligation to Boeing after its huge commitment to heavy metal during WWII. There were several pylon
mounted engine designs submitted. In fact the initial Boeing design had its engines mounted mid-wing but experienced exceptional drag.
The U.S.A.F. went back to Boeing asking for more than originally proposed.

A small number of Boeing designers were focused on swept wings, but didn't enjoy the light of day. They were basically being ignored in
favor of a traditional straight wing. The principal return on the use of swept wing at that exact moment was it offset stalls by making
them progressive. The wing stalled across from tip to root making it more manageable, if not safer.

Too slippery, even when not wet...the B-47 was plagued by its clean exterior design such that the Dutch Roll almost prevented its use
when combined with B-47's tremendous wing flex. Our model will have at least a 3 or 4 inch wingtip rise above the plane of the root.

Cleaning up the nacelles contributed to taming the problems to a point considered tolerable... after U.S.A.F. design acceptance. This
was tamed only after the B-47 was in service...after they decided to use approach and drag chutes to kept the nose pointed where
desired. The U.S.A.F. was despirate to get this fast, high altitude bomber into use...at any cost. After all it was faster than any fighter.

While the Germans, aka Austrian, Czech, Bavarian aeronautical innovation is the root of the swept wing, the above design issues haunted
their efforts. More power nets greater speed with greater issues. Well, you see my point.

Below is the Boeing wind tunnel resolution center focused on the Dutch Roll and wing flex issues. The model was gimbel mounted at CG
with teathers to prevent it from moving too far.



Resources are expensive, that is what saved us from the Axis aeronautical discoveries which still today have yet to be improved upon out
side of the constant trek down that "too slipery...when not wet" issue.


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Old 12-13-2010, 05:28 PM   #463
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Default How Was It Attached...I Wondered...

Way back at the beginning of this thread I disclosed the ATO cradles slung beneath the rear fuselage and how I wanted to do a faux ATO
burn during takeoff.

You saw the smoke system that turned out to be the correct diameter but there was no definitive cradle detail. Out of six or seven photos
and an artist CG rending, I was left to guess because our plastic model does not have the cradle.

Until now.....


And...



Who would have thought this was held on by a simple lever action release. I think I'll put a chute on it to keep it reusable. They appear to
have simply fallen to the recovery area just beyond the end of the runway. I suppose that would be like KP duty repairing these...

Does anyone have a photo of the installed ATO (33 RATO Unit) taken full frame from immediately behind facing forward toward the unit? I
have a CG rendering of that view...really would be best to place a photo image in the docs with that perspective.


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Old 12-14-2010, 03:45 PM   #464
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Default B47 Nice work !

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Old 12-15-2010, 03:13 AM   #465
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Default Watts Next... :)

Originally Posted by capt noflaps View Post
Awesome
Yeh, that's what she said... Lots more rolling out...

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Old 12-15-2010, 06:16 AM   #466
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Default B-47 History and Adolph Galland

Hi Ed!

One never ceases to be amazed at your information/data base!! BTW, if you have good info on Galland's visits and your time with him, I would urge you to add your knowledge to the Wikipedia article on Galland, as I'm sure history buffs would relish the addition. Also, the loiter time 'on station' for the Me-262 must have been minuscule, as it's total mission time was on the order of 45-60 minutes, depending on mission profile, armament, etc.

I don't agree with your assessment of the Boeing engineering 'team' being "... (a) small number of Boeing designers ... focused on swept wings, (who) didn't enjoy the light of day. They were basically being ignored in
favor of a traditional straight wing." In fact, the 'cream of the Boeing aerodynamic crew' were involved in the design of the early B-47 (Ed Wells, George Schairer, Vic Ganzer, Bob Jewett, Bob Robbins, Scott Osler, and others), and contributed significantly to the aircraft's design and evolution. The USAAF and (later) USAF flight test personnel also made significant contributions to the aircraft's improvement, including Guy Townsend, then (during B-47 development) a major, but later to retire from USAF as a Lt. General, and from Boeing as a VP; in fact, (then) Col. Townsend was the director of materiel for the 93rd Bomb Wing when I was a pilot in the Wing's 328th Bomb Sqdn.

The B-47, like virtually all swept-wing aircraft, did suffer from 'Dutch Roll', but it was not a debilitating characteristic - just something the pilot and co-pilot had to be taught how to handle. Like any new aircraft (in the USAF's, and probably the Navy's and Marine's air services), the B-47 experienced a high accident rate during it's introduction, both fatal and non-fatal; these rates declined as aircrews gained experience with the aircraft. I never flew the B-47, but my guess is that the most serious problem (from a flight-control standpoint) would have been 'engine-out' control, especially during takeoff/approach/landing, and especially for the #1 and #6 engines.

Cheers,

Dave P.
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Old 12-15-2010, 01:58 PM   #467
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Default Swept Wings Were Not What Boeing Wanted To Build

Originally Posted by Capt. Midnight View Post
Hi Ed! One never ceases to be amazed at your information/data base!! BTW, if you have good info on
Galland's visits and your time with him, I would urge you to add your knowledge to the Wikipedia article on Galland, as I'm sure history
buffs would relish the addition. Also, the loiter time 'on station' for the Me-262 must have been minuscule, as it's total mission time was
on the order of 45-60 minutes, depending on mission profile, armament, etc.

I don't agree with your assessment of the Boeing engineering 'team' being "... (a) small number of Boeing designers ... focused on swept
wings, (who) didn't enjoy the light of day. They were basically being ignored in favor of a traditional straight wing."

In fact, the 'cream of the Boeing aerodynamic crew' were involved in the design of the early B-47 (Ed Wells, George Schairer, Vic Ganzer,
Bob Jewett, Bob Robbins, Scott Osler, and others), and contributed significantly to the aircraft's design and evolution. The USAAF and
(later) USAF flight test personnel also made significant contributions to the aircraft's improvement, including Guy Townsend, then (during
B-47 development) a major, but later to retire from USAF as a Lt. General, and from Boeing as a VP; in fact, (then) Col. Townsend was
the director of materiel for the 93rd Bomb Wing when I was a pilot in the Wing's 328th Bomb Sqdn.

The B-47, like virtually all swept-wing aircraft, did suffer from 'Dutch Roll', but it was not a debilitating characteristic - just something the
pilot and co-pilot had to be taught how to handle. Like any new aircraft (in the USAF's, and probably the Navy's and Marine's air services),
the B-47 experienced a high accident rate during it's introduction, both fatal and non-fatal; these rates declined as aircrews gained experience
with the aircraft. I never flew the B-47, but my guess is that the most serious problem (from a flight-control standpoint) would have been
'engine-out' control, especially during takeoff/approach/landing, and especially for the #1 and #6 engines. Cheers, Dave P.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Dave,

It is well documented the designs submitted by Boeing and its competitors for the USAF RFP were composed around traditional straight
wings with high drag. The differentials were in engine placement between the fuselage and wing in each proposal submitted.

The original Boeing design proposed fuselage shoulder (wing root) mounted engines. The Air Force had experienced a tremendous number
of engine frags. The engines literally destroyed airframes they were mounted in. USAF rejected Boeings design, however they encouraged
Boeing to continue with further proposals because of Boeing's WWII committment.

Individuals at Boeing working on what they hoped would be an eventual integration of swept wings were an isolated less than ideally
funded group. They were not considered for the USAF RFP... until the USAF rejected Boeing's original proposal.

After rejection of Boeing's original designs, it was left with little else but to copy its competitor's designs...pushing the engines out onto
wing where they only contributed to greater high drag of the straight wing.

Then, and only then was consideration given to utilizing the swept wing. Its as if an executive turned and said something I can't type
here...asking what in the - - - - is left?

In many respects, the USAF awarded development funds to Boeing with little concrete evidence a swept wing could be utilized on an
aircraft with this mission. After all, the only evidence was divided up among all Allies at the end of WWII... Only a few months prior to
the RFP's release. The only evidence was the 262 and 163 with qualified successes with consequences of their own.

Galland was moved to the 262 in hope he would die in the cockpit...if not from a Jumo explosion...from a takeoff or landing accident.
Documentation that exists about successful swept wing combat came from Galland and his companions.

All of Galland's accomplishments are found in his books and interviews. I am fortunate to have a friend who has been extremely giving
in his preserving of Galland's history. This to the extent of being Galland's host during summer vacations in the U.S. I am fortunate to
have the pleasure~dis-pleasure witnessing Galland's dark-side in a relaxed dinner environment as he described his personal reality...

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Old 12-16-2010, 05:18 AM   #468
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Default The Other Boeing

Hi Ed!

I'm a bit tardy responding to your reply because I'm having problems accessing your thread via my Mac/Safari software. Finally tried to access the thread via Netscape, and it seems to work.

Yes, there was some evolution in Boeing's proposal efforts on the B-47 - not unlike their responses to government solicitations that led to the B-52 program: par for the industrial/military complex back then, and to this day (re: the tanker replacement conundrum).

If you have some credible references for your assertions about the activities of Boeing aerodynamic staff personnel (e.g., "... Individuals at Boeing working on what they hoped ... were an isolated (,) less than ideally funded group.") I would be most interested to have you post them. If, indeed, you worked for Boeing (as I did from 1951-1991, with a timeout for USAF service), and have some 'inside' information on how the Boeing aero staff was organized, staffed, and funded for the B-47 program, I'd sure be interested to have you post the information.

I also believe that you have no specific, credible information about the actual internal decision-making that went on inside what became the DoD/USAF procurement organizations regarding the award of the early development contracts on the B-47 (or the B-52, for that matter). And your assertion that Luftwaffe 'management' hoped that Galland would be killed in a Me-262 accident begs for references and justification.

Moreover, Germany's WW II (and prior) technical information about aircraft/propulsion (and atomic) research was probably not widely dispersed among agencies in the USA, GB, and USSR, though all three sent 'teams' of civil and military personnel to gather such information in the closing days, and immediate aftermath of the end of hostilities in Germany. Much of the information gathered by these 'teams' was most certainly not shared among the 'Big Three', let alone the 'Big Five', as historical and diary records (of many of the top-level diplomats and their assistants) show. Again, if you can share your references for your assertions on this issue, many of us, I am sure, would be very interested to have them.

I didn't know that Galland had a 'dark side' - maybe he became bitter after leaving Argentina. I guess many of the military 'icons' from WW II had their 'dark sides' - surely Stalin, Churchlill, Roosevelt, Patton, Ike, Monty, Clark, and many others carried such burdens from WW II.

Cheers, and happy holidays,

Dave P.
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:06 PM   #469
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Default Documentation For Modeling Projects...

David,

In my previous post(s) I answered much of what you ask.

Evolution of what would eventually become the Model 450-X...


This is not a history lesson, if you want to read the books we've used for resources I will post a few of the many resources I and Sam
have gathered since this began on Thanksgiving Day, 2009.

I suggest anyone considering building a B-47 needs to acquire these if the documentation Sam and I are sharing in this thread does not
meet your approval. Its like everything else related to scratch building, in the end you have to plan and follow a plan until overwhelming
differential data forces the project to change direction.

There is no such thing as "the" way to do this folks... However, after my first scratch project, I decided its wise to consider consequeces
before painting one's ars into a mechanical and technical corner. Just because someone else did something "a" way does not in any way
indicate it is proper for you and your modeling skillset acquired during hands on scale model construction from kits, plans, and design. I've
been exceptionally fortunate to enjoy many, many mentors since the mid-fifties.

What Sam and I chose as a path to building these two B-47's in no way means you have to replicate what we chose for construction
guides, data, and processes. As I have previously expressed in this thread, I have spoken to a scale modeler who built an 80" w/s B-47D
and participated in scale competition with it for three years. I wanted to know exactly what his experience was.

I deemed this was the only way I could be assured the negative elements of the 1:1 flight behavior of the B-47 were present in a model
flown in r/c scale competition (50) fifty or more times by its designer/competitor. I was told to manage the model as if I were flying the 1:1.
That translates into following the flight manual margin notations and warnings...


It was disclosed the most critical maneuver management will be during downwind, turn across base leg to an elongated approach...just as is
documented in BAC and USAF pilot training documents. I tend to listen to people who share their experiences with an airframe very close in
size to what I build and fly.




It was in no way my intention to turn this thread into a dialog on German WWII aviation designs which found their way to England, France,
US, Russia, and China immediately after the war ended.

Dave, I realize you were a Boeing employee who's obviously taken offense to what is posted in this thread relative to the information we have
accumulated on the B-47. This has become a painfully obvious distraction to the intent of this thread. The documentation on the B-47 which
I have has origins in 1943 to 1944 which led the USAAF to issue a jet powered bomber RFP.

As for Dolpho Galland, I don't know how many German Aces you have been around but in my being around the CAF for too many years, I found
them to be extremely prideful individuals not afraid to revise history...in Technicolor.


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Old 12-18-2010, 12:12 AM   #470
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Hi Ed, I just wanted to thank you for starting such an interestingly thought out build effort for the B-47. This looks like it will be a fantastic scale model.

I am in the initial stages to building an early jetliner of appx 120" in size, both wing and fuselage, and I'm mulling over efficient and light weight ways of making the fuselage consist of at least two sections. I am hot wiring the main fuselage section out of pink foam (thin wall, and balsa sheeted much like a hollow foam core wing), and the nose and tail sections bulkheads and fiberglass skin construction. The fuselage will split in the constant radius center section of the fuselage (fore or aft of the wing saddle depending on what I come up with).

I see you have decided to make your B-47 fuselage in three sections. What method have you decided to use to attach the fuselage? A wing tube (sort of) approach?

Looking forward to seeing more of your progress. Mind if I ask you a silly question?

What are you gonna cover your model with?

Oh yeah, looking forward to seeing all that natural metal finish too
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:31 AM   #471
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Default Truss-In_Truss Root

Originally Posted by Eddie P View Post
Hi Ed, I just wanted to thank you for starting such an interestingly thought out build effort for the B-47.
This looks like it will be a fantastic scale model.

I am in the initial stages to building an early jetliner of appx 120" in size, both wing and fuselage, and I'm mulling over efficient
and light weight ways of making the fuselage consist of at least two sections. I am hot wiring the main fuselage section out of
pink foam (thin wall, and balsa sheeted much like a hollow foam core wing), and the nose and tail sections bulkheads and fiberglass
skin construction. The fuselage will split in the constant radius center section of the fuselage (fore or aft of the wing saddle
depending on what I come up with).

I see you have decided to make your B-47 fuselage in three sections. What method have you decided to use to attach the fuselage?
A wing tube (sort of) approach? Looking forward to seeing more of your progress. Mind if I ask you a silly question?
What are you gonna cover your model with? Oh yeah, looking forward to seeing all that natural metal finish too

Eddie,

Thanks for contributing to the giant scale edf projects in WF...we need many more and I already know of two more coming out of a
certain hangar near by.

Look back in this thread and you will find the wing truss and wing spar drawings that have been reworked. The wing is vested within
the fuselage from outside the inboard pylons. There is a fuselage truss within truss structure within the center diamond. The diamond
is laminated with carbon fiber as are the two internal triangles.

Our fuselage center sections are hot wired Spyder Foam. Forward from just behind the cockpit vent, aft section, nacelles, & wing tank
are CNC milled from high density XPS from Dow Corning.

Plenty more of that in the near future. I'm out of here in route to Florida until Tuesday.

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Old 12-18-2010, 12:46 AM   #472
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Sure thing, I'll post more on it's own thread here when the glass, balsa and foam starts taking cuts and scuffs.

EDIT: I see you put in a few details above, thanks for that! I will go back in a try to find it. It's a big thread!!

I know you are in progress on a lot of this right now, just curious more or less if you have a preferred trick for this.

Cheers!
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:22 AM   #473
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Default Truss-N-Truss Assembly Summary

Originally Posted by Eddie P View Post
Sure thing, I'll post more on it's own thread here when the glass, balsa and foam starts taking cuts and scuffs.

EDIT: I see you put in a few details above, thanks for that! I will go back in a try to find it. It's a big thread!!

I know you are in progress on a lot of this right now, just curious more or less if you have a preferred trick for this. Cheers!
The above has all changed, including spar locations and formers. What has not changed is the internal diamond cavity within center section
and triangle sections half high in rear and half low in front section. There is a right angle fuselage cut line aft of nose along line ahead of the
radome. This permits access to internals. Wing is split outboard blue line at outside center of inboard nacelles. Nacelle is removable via pylon
blade inside pylon pocket. Pylon blades carry nearly 40% of all mass stress of this design.



The rear fuselage is halved left and right along vertical to permit internal and external milling resulting in perfectly round cavity to receive
ball for the cannon turret. A servo attached to two points on the ball permit it to raster in a scale manner.

You can see the truss-n-truss structure which receives the spar blade from left and right spar pockets in the left and right wings. There
are two laser cut trusses interlocked such that spar blades cantilever. This mechanism is carbon fiber veil laminated and interlocked with
two hardwood formers fore and aft which serve as bulk heads for the pair of bicycle mains on each end of the center section.


Nose is nothing more than cockpit eye candy while rear is an integral rudder post and vertical fin leading edge king post extended through truss.
Absolutely nothing is stronger than a right angle intersect of an equal lateral triangle base...nothing!

I am revisiting and reposting a minimum amount of information to serve as short hand to answer questions you and others who do not start
at post one and work their way through 473 more and arrive at this point in the thread Illustration answers almost every question about
our design concept. Facing bulk heads between fore and aft sections from center have four alignment tube-n-tube to assure alignment.

All section to section strength comes from insertion of triangles into diamond core cantilevered against the carbon fiber plate inserted across from
left to right that divides the diamond into two triangle shapes. There is only enough c/f plate length to afford cantilever fore and aft. The plate
is not large, it need only interrupt the tangent torque rendered by horiz stab~vertical fin and "0" torsion of the front end.

Tension and compression are integral with 1/16th skinned XPS glassed on the bias with .6 ounce to sq yd equal thread glass applied with 40%
dilution of Z-Poxy equal to interior carbon fiber veil laminated "herring bone" lay up of balsa sheeted diamond cavity with a cf cross plate to
provide cantilever strength fore and aft of center section. Read that again...slower and it begins to sink in...or down...


Remember, how is better than how much... ;^)


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Old 12-22-2010, 05:18 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post

Above...Joe Martin, of Sherline mill and lathe fame, appears on cover of '64 New England Scale Championships program holding 80"
w/s B-47D. The B-47D turboprop had comparable performance to the pure jet B-47s. Its short coming, aka failing, was reliability.

Joe, the first to fly a B-47 in competitive flying scale modeling, proved the 35 degree sweep did not poise a challenge at the lower
end of the r/c speed envelope...in 1962. Yes, you read it right...1962. Joe campaigned his B-47 from 1962 through '64.

Calling Joe 47 years after his contest experience, I listened to a technicolor play by play that served to be rocket fuel to my B-47E-IV
aspiration. Joe's only regret...he failed to anticipate the B-47's need for a shallow approach and landing. Joe's vivid recollection projected
a visual as he described the B-47 bucking and bouncing down the runway after contact.


Did Joe relate the fate of his model? i always wondered if there were plans for this airplane.

Interesting thread, I'm watching this one.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:45 PM   #475
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Default Tell Me It Ain't So...Joe

Originally Posted by michaelj2k View Post
Did Joe relate the fate of his model? i always wondered if there were plans for this airplane. Interesting
thread, I'm watching this one.
Michael,

The reason I tracked Joe down was to discuss the landing sequence to confirm assumptions. He never had plans, only sketches he
trashed 47 years ago. The reason this thead is here is so you can use the resources to build one. Everything to construct one is
within the thread...now

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