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Old 01-30-2010, 02:30 AM   #51
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Default Pop Top...Found

Over the last 120 days I have been beating on the B-47 I have found only three photographs of the in-flight fuel door (#1 in above
illustration) in the "open" position until I received an image in Lloyd's latest book.



This photo clearly shows what appear to be two hinges on the inflight refueling door. Amazing to see it opening at right angles into
the jet stream...and it turns out it does:^) The door pivots forward from the fuselage to the open position as shown above. I have
additional refueling images I will share in the third section of this construction thread.

The artist who drew the above illustration obviously knew the door pivots forward 180 degrees. Pivoting is easier than opening
vertically against the air stream. Sam found a video online of the refueling process. At the very beginning the door can be seen
pivoting through 180 degrees. I will post the image later.



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Old 01-30-2010, 04:11 AM   #52
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Default M.A.N. B-47 Drawing

Hi Ed!

Just a clarification: in one place in this thread, you credit the source of the MAN B-47 drawing as the June 1959 issue; but in another note, you refer to it as coming from the June 1956 issue: which is correct?

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Old 01-30-2010, 04:22 AM   #53
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Default Definitive B-47E Drawing And B-47D Planset

Originally Posted by [I
"Capt. Midnight;687377]Hi Ed! Just a clarification: in one place in this thread, you credit the source of the MAN B-47 [/I]
drawing as the June 1959 issue; but in another note, you refer to it as coming from the June 1956 issue: which is correct?
Dave Plummer"
Dave, there are two items, a planset for the D model and a line art drawing for the E. The E "line art drawing" entitled Planes Worth
Modeling was published in the June 1956 issue of MAN.

I have edited all previous posts which served to confuse anyone. Thank you for pointing out my error.



The "planset" for a B-47D powered with turboprops is available today in the MAN RC online store catalog.



Did that explain it clearer?


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Old 01-30-2010, 04:51 AM   #54
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Default Correction

Hi Ed!

OK, sorry, I didn't catch the distinction between the 'names' of the two drawing sets. Thanks for clearing up my problem!!!

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Old 01-30-2010, 06:00 PM   #55
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Default XB-47 (B-47 Prototype) In January 1948 Model Airplane News

Anyone have a January 1948 Model Airplane News on the bottom of your stack... If so, how about sharing what's hidden inside.




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Old 01-30-2010, 06:31 PM   #56
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Default B-47 Forward Fuselage Display

Finally after five phone calls I reached the March Air Force Base Museum in Riverside.



At the former March AFB their museum (located in a hangar) has the forward fuselage utilized in the making of the Strategic Air
Command movie starring James Stewart. Guess what that is on the nose of the mock-up .



At the front of the forward fuselage section, the in-flight fuel door is shown in its open position. Teh online video of the fuel door
opening is so small it can not be captured and printed showing the door pivoting.

There are many online photo sessions showing the cockpit arrangement at Marsh Field, but none have the fuel door located beside
the stairs up to the cockpit. I am sure someone has taken digital images of this because it is unique and a single image would not
show its detail so there would be several images.

The March Air Museum is located just off the I-215 freeway at the Van Buren Exit in Riverside. 22550 Van Buren. The museum building
can be seen on the far left with its orange and white checkerboard roof.



A few of the musuem buildings containing over 70 aircraft and 20,000 artifacts. The P-38 assn has their national headquarters on
the property.


I was instructed to send a disposable digital camera to them and they will shoot a walkaround of the fuel door for me. If anyone else
is interested in doing so I most certainly will post the images within this thread.


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Old 01-31-2010, 02:27 PM   #57
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Default In-flight Refueling

Perhaps for the majority the term in-flight refueling takes on mental images of a jet behind and below another jet....consider a prop'd
tanker straining at full throttle as the B-47 attempts to stay down at that speed.

If you flew in SEA and in your 60's this will look familiar.



The B-47's loiter was the origin of SAC's (Strategic Air Command)'s 24 hour duty cycle along and beyond the Dew Line.

And for those who only recognize what an F-16 looked like (note I write "looked like"... ;^) Along side a fighter bomber the AF seems
to never find a replacement for, the F-15...my kind of getter done!


Last but not least, for our friends across the pond...a passing of the guard for the Royal Bird Of Prey.



I give up on posting uTube on this site....fails whatever I do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNk5OcOiXjE


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Old 01-31-2010, 04:01 PM   #58
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Default Whatever D' Weather....She Said

For those who languish in Cold War intrigue... Here is the proof sex sells.


The "weather" monitoring version of the B-47, the WB-47E was designed for gathering and monitoring atmospheric samples... They
went to great lengths to sell the project. This is one of several late 50's to early 60's babes used to redirect curiosity.


Note two items in the photo...

The iconic trench coat representing clandestin activity of spys and eyes in the skies during the period and the fixture for the wire line
antenna. The antenna stretched from just behind the canopy to the veritical fin on the B-47.

The ultra low "ground pounder" frequencies used spread spectrum dispersion protocols...hence the very long wave length requiring a long
wire antenna.

The brunette...needs no description aside from the fact in every photo the USAF and Navy released had them holding an unbrella as a
misdirect. Ironically this one appears to be "aluminum" colored for the magnesium overcast... Me Bad Boy... ;^)

For those who don't have a clue as to what I am describing here...you really don't think the B-47's assigned to "weather' duty were
interested in anything that didn't glow at night did you... Heres a well documented example of the consequence of radioactive material
released in the atmosphere... Illustration shown for educational purposes.




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Old 01-31-2010, 04:30 PM   #59
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Default Proud Moment

Its my turn to be a proud father... ;^)


My daughter's film "One Tough Ride, The Story Of The OV-10 Bronco" is being featured online and in the printed March 2010 issue
of Air & Space, the Smithsonian's aviation magazine.

Link to the promo and an opportunity for you to order your own copy of the the documentary film on DVD. See the link on the right
hand side of the page featured in "Newest" and "Most Viewed" videos.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...3D140%26um%3D1

I think you will permit me to brag just a wee bit...

Her web site.... http://www.ov10film.com/

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Old 02-01-2010, 11:48 PM   #60
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Default B-47 Inboard Nacelles, D' Blade....D' Blade...

I finished reworking the inboard nacelle today.


Note, as you look across the nacelle cross sections I created a new "red" horizonal datum. All, horizonal
black datum lines should be disregarded. What was, isn't what is. This was forced to accommodate the
outrigger retract.

The green outline is the shape of the CF/Kevlar sandwich blade onto which the StuMax and everything
within the nacelle is attached. It slides into a receiver within the pylon (yet to be drawn).

The blade permits the entire nacelle to be removed from the plane rather than having to lay on my back
to work on any and everything within it.

Green blade perimeter will change shape again to accommodate retract air tank, valve, and Eagle Tree logger.
There will be a bypass air path created for the ESC and batteries on the new illustration as well.


Robart's 615 rotating retract is anticipated for outriggers. Each has its own #187 air control kit with
small air bottle, control valve, filler and line. Note: extremely compact and are 100 deg sweep.


If you are copying images be sure to note in all cases this web site automatically resizes and images are
probably not appearing here in equal scale. A good example is found below. Simply resize based on the
nacelle inlet to exit length.

Disregard pylon length shown below. Until line weight is brought down consider measurements greater than
the length from inlet to exhaust as improper. Also, you must be consistant when measuring. It matters from
this point forward:^) Either measure outside to outside or inside to inside of enlarged drawing.


While I am doing preliminary work-ups I tend to not worry about the line weight because I know each of
the elements between two points are actually closer together than shown on drawing. You saw some of
this in the dims of the pylon blade insert.

Until I get closer to a 1:1 enlargement I use drawings as general layouts...in much the same fashion as
the manufacturers do/did. Remember your need is to determine if something fits from a minimum standpoint.

As I progress to the 1:1 perspective and the final scale of this B-47 this reverses and I reduce sizes of
components to comply to a given scale based on satisfying the minimum requirement. This does not
change whether you are using CAD or a graphics editor to work any project up.


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Old 02-03-2010, 12:21 AM   #61
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Default June 1959 Issue of MAN

Hi Ed!

FYI: I recently purchased (eBay) a copy of the June 1959 issue of MAN. I have no way of know if the copy I received was complete, but it appears to be. There was no mention of a Planes-Worth-Modeling article/section, and no evidence that there was a small scale drawing of the B-47.

I notice in the image you (or someone) posted in this thread that on the MAN drawing, it has the phrase "Model Airplane News June 1956" in the lower RH corner.

Just wondering whether there is some confusion on the source of the drawing.

Cheers,

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Old 02-03-2010, 12:38 AM   #62
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Default Sorry For Confusion...

Now, that everything is back on track...I will post two illustrations. I welcome your input and discussion
of how these illustrations relate and weigh heavily in anyone's decision to build a B-47.

Dave,

I overlooked your post about the wrong MAN issue. Sorry, the drawing does have a 1956 date. My mistake.

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Old 02-05-2010, 03:31 PM   #63
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Question A Possible Overlooked Approach To the B-47

I welcome your input and discussion of these two images...



Clicking the thumbnail below will bring forward a larger image for review. What do these illustrations reference?



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Old 02-05-2010, 07:26 PM   #64
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Default Fuselage Former Dims

1/10.2 Scale B-47E-IV dims:

Wingspan: 137.19"
Fuselage Length: 120.72"
Maximum Fuselage Width: 11.14"
Nacelle Width: 9.653"
Nacelle Tube Length: 19.742"
Nacelle Total Length: 24.21"
Wing Tank Length: 27.56"
Wing Tank Diameter: 5.37"
Vertical Fin: 21.5"
Horizonal Stab Width: 38.22"

Widths of fuselage cross sections on a 1/10.2 B-47E-IV:

A = 5.06" B = 9.667" C = 11.14" D = 11.14" E = 10.12" F = 6.58" G = 4.56"

Yes, ignore the inboard nacelle side view.... Use the one below instead:^)



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Old 02-07-2010, 01:10 AM   #65
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Default

Shortly, I will bring other station shapes falling elsewhere on the fuselage. This better defines the 'tween
shapes. Where are these coming from? Three drawings have cross sections shown on them. As is typically
the case, their positions do not fall on the same location. All that is required is to scan and bring them to
the same scale.


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Old 02-07-2010, 04:34 AM   #66
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Default

wow..
Awesome photos you guys.... Quite a project...

Bruce
AMA 873912

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Old 02-07-2010, 03:26 PM   #67
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Default What's All The Flap About...:^)

Sam is working on the mock-up of the flap system. We're getting into disclaimer territory...

"Project Disclaimer"

Anyone building a B-47 as a result of viewing what Sam and I are doing and have done to construct our
two B-47's, do so at their own risk. Materials and methods shown within this thread are shown to witness
our choice of material and methods of material use.

If you are duplicating methods and materials exhibited within this online thread, do so only after a personal
determination of whether what is shown within the thread is proper, improper, appropriate, or inappropriate
for any and all of your intended uses if to replicate what may be shown within this thread.

Safe operation of radio control models is dependent on an owner, pilot, owner-pilot, builder-owner-pilot
skillset, experience, material choice and assembly methods as they relate to accepted practices in the radio
control hobby as of 02/07/2010.

For an example of what is considered an accepted practice consult the AMA (Academy Of Model Aeronautics),
MAAC, or FAI Safety Codes.

Below are HiTec's servos you may consider to power flaps on a B-47. I share the three considered instead
of stating one is better than the others. This is clearly a branded issue with many modelers vs a technical
evalutaion consideration.






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Old 02-09-2010, 05:17 PM   #68
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Default On To B-47's Fuselage

Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
Shortly, I will bring other station shapes falling elsewhere on the fuselage.


Well we have to start with the base line formers adjusted to new thin red datum lines to permit ease of alignment.









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Old 02-09-2010, 06:36 PM   #69
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Default B-47E-IV Wing Tank

Note the pylons for the wing tank are not the same shape nor is the airfoil shown below what we are using on this project.


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Old 02-10-2010, 01:07 AM   #70
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Default The A, B, C, & D Of The B-47E-IV


Confused..... Who knows what this is an illustration of?


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Old 02-10-2010, 06:43 PM   #71
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Default All Trussed Up 'N Ready To Grow

Base fuselage reference image:
Initial cross sections A, B, C, D, E, F, G


Below is an image of the retract in its "standard" maximum up and down position. It is anticipated we will change the degree of
movement for the front gear and possibly rear retract to enable scale strut length and tire diameter to clear.


The Robart 160 retract.

Below are the three former groups, front, center, and tail group. Additional cross sections join these as we move forward. I thought
it appropriate to post these groups with the internal diamond shape as it appears as of 02/11/2010.

Front Group:


Center Group: C is larges, D is next in from it....disregard the inner shape.


Diamond position in cross section E.


Tail Group: F, G


As can be seen in the side view, internal diamond does not extend to each end of the fuselage. The front (gren) and rear (blue)
internal sections are triangles not diamond shaped. The diamond appears in the former sections to provide more accurate alignment.


Note the three new datum lines extending across all cross sections. These provide reference points on each cross section. The
cross sections are not concentric...those to the front are lower than those at the rear of the fuselage. The actual parting point
between front, center, and rear sections of the B-47 will appear later. Image above is shown only to assist in your visualization
of the three sections the model will break down into.



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Ed Clayman
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:12 AM   #72
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Default B-47 CG Calculation

Hi Ed!

I got the following reply from one of the guys at the B-47 Association on calculating the CG of the aircraft; thought perhaps others might be interested:

" ...The Co-Pilot normally had the duty, both before take-off and prior to landing and as well prior to, during and after air-refueling to keep the Center Of Gravity (CG) within an envelope called Mean Aerodynamic Chord, (MAC). This was accomplished by a device somewhat like an ordinary slide rule called a load adjustor and was designed by Boeing Engineers for use only in the B-47. They used a starting point somewhat ahead of the nose of the aircraft (I seem to recall it was like 30 or 40 inches) ahead of the nose of the plane. This was done so all models of the B-47 could use the same slide rule. The position of each crew member was measured from that point as well as each center line of each fuel tank. The level of fuel (expressed in pounds) would of course move the balance point foward if the tank was in the forward section of the plane or aft if in a rear tank of course. Also if any bombs were loaded or ammunition stored in the tail section. All of these variables and expendables were configured from this point in distance.

They were expressed in stations not distance in feet or inches. Using the slide rule a person who were expirenced with one could quickly see it the balance point was within an area of about 24 inches located at a point where the aircraft was in balance it it were lifted at that point and was called center of gravity (CG). As far as both pilots being required to do this during the landing approach, I would expect in actual practice it was done by the pilot not at the controls and by the Navigator to confirm the accuracy, as thats how I recalled it being done when I flew with them.

I had to learn the slide rule as well as a Crew Chief because if in maintenance we were required to jack the airplane for gear retraction tests we had to know if the plane was in balance prior to jacking. Because if it were not it could fall forward or aft off the jacks if it were not balanced when the gear was retracted as the weigh of the gear being raised shifted the CG slightly forward. The Jacks points were on the wing bottoms positioned within the MAC envelope. We had to make sure the weight of fuel in each tank was considered as well as other factors such as if the loaded ammo cans and drag chute were onboard as that weight was the most rearward of anything else. We also had to consider if only one person was in the cockpit and which position they were in.

If the crew would try to fly the plane with the CG too far forward it might not get off the ground and would fly in a nose down position that might exceed the trim ability. If the CG was too far rearward the plane could stall on take-off. During landing the fwd CG would cause the plane to touchdown on the forward gear first causing it to bounce wildly and if rearward CG it could stall in a nose up condition or making an undesired condition as well..."
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:28 AM   #73
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:^) In reading the pilot and crew flight manual I found a considerable amount of the two crew manuals
were dedicated to consequences and illustrations. There were more "do not' statements in that section
than any other portion of the two 1:1 flight manuals we have.

An illustration brought all this home in showing the entire fuselage outside of wheel wells, bomb bay,
navigator's, co-pilot, and pilot compartments the entire length was virtually a fuel tank. There was an
oil tank in the extreme rear just ahead of the 20mm cannon turret. This explained why every photo of a
crashed B-47 was the same...totally engulfed in flames.

CG was constantly recalculated during flight. It was done by the navigator, pilot, and co-pilot...each
had their own guages and flow controls for redistribution of fuel. Ah, there's nothing like a well worn slide
rule and the smell of kerosene in the morning... :^)


Dave, its interesting that the jack points are within the CG "zone". Drawing a line between these points
is going to provide an acceptable CG location for safe flight. I will review and post image of this point.

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Old 02-11-2010, 03:45 PM   #74
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I have edited the previous post to reflect the adjusted former positions, and position of diamond and
triangles within each cross section. Within each tringle section of the fuselage there is a triangle truss
insert which permits each third of the fuselage to be attached to the others.

The "upper diamond within the center fuselage section and the triangle cavity within the tail third have
internal trusses to support all components of the airframe. More details will be shown after we have hot
wired
the fuselage center section.



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Old 02-12-2010, 08:35 PM   #75
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Just returned from FedEx Office (formerly Kinko's) where I used their self service large format scanner/copier
to enlarge all my nacelle components from their print file size I printed last evening to their 1/10.2 scale size.

This permits me to move from the virtual world to the real and bring components to printed drawings to see
area they occupy and to see everything is fitting as calculated to fit at 1/10.2 scale for our two B-47's.

This will permit laying out bifurcated inlet and exhaust, retract sweep angle, retract system/tank/valve/servo,
battery, ECU, and Eagle Tree data logger placement. I had someone walk up to me as I sat at a cutting table
and asked if I was working on a real or model B-47.

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