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Old 12-31-2015, 04:54 AM   #1
dereckbc
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Default Spectrun AR636 AS3X RX Info Thread

OK this is not a thread to debate receivers with gyros. I get it some of you think it is cheating and does not allow RC pilots to learn the flying skills. It is thread to share and discuss primarily how to use and optimize the Spektrum AR636 AS3X 6-channel sports receiver. I decided to start the thread because there is not a lot of information to be had on it. Spektrum and Horizon Hobby information on the receiver is pretty vague and does not really explain how to use it. So for my benefit and others I though this might be a good idea to discuss tips, tricks, and basic information on how to use it.

The AR636 Is quite different then it AR635. To start is it has 3 Flight Modes that you can program just about anything required for flight. One great improvement programming is much easier as it can be done with Laptop or Smart Phone. No more blinking lights using your TX to program it. Another interesting feature some may not like at first is your TX is set to default for all flight control surfaces. Rates, Expos, Gains, Channels, Trims, Sub Trims, Wing Type, Tail Type, Ailerons, ect are all done in the RX. Retracts, Lights, Spoilers, Bells & Whistles, and Mixes can be assigned and controlled by the Transmitter. Just no Control Surfaces.

The Manual and Quick Start do a decent job and make it fairly easy to Setup your plane control surfaces. Straight forward just like you would do if using the TX. Where it gets tricky is when you set up the gyros or use the AS3X capabilities. My stumbling block was how to use both Rate Gain, Heading Gain, and Priority. I have some of it figured out. Spektrum says to just experiment to figure it out.

Rate Gain as explained by Spektrum is Conventional Gain meaning it will dampen external force that can move the plane off its 3 axis. Convention Gain will not return the plane to its original heading and/or attitude. It only resist and dampens. On the other hand Heading Gain does return, or at least tries to retain and/or return the plane to the heading and attitude to where it was. This is where I am not sure how the two interact with each other.

I have mine installed in a Precision Aerobatics Addiction X, a 3D model and set up with 3 Flight modes on a 3-position switch, and have been working with it for a couple of months now. My Flight Mode 1 is straight stick and rudder with no AS3X or gyros active, and 50% rates to limit control surfaces. It is my Fail Safe I can revert back to for normal flight control.

Flight Mode 2 I call my Sport Mode. Rates are turned up to 75%, and 20% Conventional Gain on Roll, Pitch, and Yaw axis. It works well and I got that figured out. I can fly at full throttle with no oscillations on any of the axis, and It tames the wind and turbulence.

Flight Mode 3 is where I get a bit confused on how to set it up. My FM3 is what I call my 3D mode. This is where Heading Gain comes into play. What I am not sure about is how Conventional and Heading Gain interact with each other I think. That is the my issue, I do not know for certain. From what I gathered, I think anyway, from Spektrum you use both Conventional and Heading in equal amounts. Example I have mine set up with 50% Conventional and Heading Gain on all 3 axis with Relative turned on. Relative means I can adjust the Gains in Flight with my Transmitter as the AR636 has Telemetry to allow you to do this and see the values on the radio. What I am not crazy about is when you do adjust the gain with the TX, it adjust all 3 axis rather than just 1 you can select.

What gets me confused and has me questioning is why use both Conventional and Heading Gain. Seems to me you would want one or the other, not both. So if anyone can shine some light on that would be appreciated.

I did Optimize my 3D mode to find the maximum gain I can use without surface oscillation I would like to share as a tip. Hope I can explain it well enough. I set up the three modes to control each of the 3 axis.

On FM1 I set up for 100% Conventional and Heading Gain on the Roll axis, and 0% on Pitch and Yaw. On FM2 I set the Roll up like FM1 with 0% on Roll and Yaw. FM3 set up for Yaw. Then right before takeoff I rolled back each of the 3 FM gains to 50% because I knew 100% would create violent oscillations.

Then I take off in FM1 gain some altitude and fly a pass down the runway at throttle and turned the gain up until I seen Roll oscilations, then backed it off until oscillations stopped. Repeated process on FM2 and FM3.

Then landed and recorded the gains from the TX. Then I connected my cell phone to the RX, programmed FM1 to normal stick and rudder only controls as I described above and repeated for FM2 Sport Mode. On FM2 my 3D mode, I set the gains I recorded from the test flight. Worked out to be 45% on Roll, and 60% on Pitch and Yaw.

OK that is my take and if someone can explain how to use both Conventional and Heading gain would be appreciated and any other tips you might have. Like I said this is a Informational Thread to share information between users.

THX

Dereck
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Old 01-01-2016, 12:55 AM   #2
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The modes sound almost identical the the Hobby Eagle stabiliser I've just picked up.

Regarding the rate and heading hold gains.. these are technically referred to 'P' (Proportional) and 'I' (Integral) gain respectively.

Anyway.
P (or 'rate') is proportional to the size of error from zero, so the greater the error the greater the correction value.
I (or HH) is related to the time that the error has existed so the longer that the error has existed the greater the correction value.

Rate mode has 'I' set to zero. In heading hold mode you would use both 'P' and 'I'. 'P' looks after fast corrections to movements, 'I' looks after slower 'drifting' from desired heading. As you mentioned, both P and I would normally be increased in proportion with one another but on most controllers the value of 'P' would be something typically like 133% of 'I' value.

Usually if you go too high with 'P' (rate) gain you get a high frequency 'shake'. Too high on 'I' (HH) usually gives a slower frequency 'wag'.

Note that the above is based mainly on my experience with flybarless controllers, but the latest fixed wing units work just the same, in fact some FBL systems can be used on planes too.
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:38 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
OK this is not a thread to debate receivers with gyros. I get it some of you think it is cheating and does not allow RC pilots to learn the flying skills. It is thread to share and discuss primarily how to use and optimize the Spektrum AR636 AS3X 6-channel sports receiver. I decided to start the thread because there is not a lot of information to be had on it. Spektrum and Horizon Hobby information on the receiver is pretty vague and does not really explain how to use it. So for my benefit and others I though this might be a good idea to discuss tips, tricks, and basic information on how to use it.

The AR636 Is quite different then it AR635. To start is it has 3 Flight Modes that you can program just about anything required for flight. One great improvement programming is much easier as it can be done with Laptop or Smart Phone. No more blinking lights using your TX to program it. Another interesting feature some may not like at first is your TX is set to default for all flight control surfaces. Rates, Expos, Gains, Channels, Trims, Sub Trims, Wing Type, Tail Type, Ailerons, ect are all done in the RX. Retracts, Lights, Spoilers, Bells & Whistles, and Mixes can be assigned and controlled by the Transmitter. Just no Control Surfaces.

The Manual and Quick Start do a decent job and make it fairly easy to Setup your plane control surfaces. Straight forward just like you would do if using the TX. Where it gets tricky is when you set up the gyros or use the AS3X capabilities. My stumbling block was how to use both Rate Gain, Heading Gain, and Priority. I have some of it figured out. Spektrum says to just experiment to figure it out.

Rate Gain as explained by Spektrum is Conventional Gain meaning it will dampen external force that can move the plane off its 3 axis. Convention Gain will not return the plane to its original heading and/or attitude. It only resist and dampens. On the other hand Heading Gain does return, or at least tries to retain and/or return the plane to the heading and attitude to where it was. This is where I am not sure how the two interact with each other.

I have mine installed in a Precision Aerobatics Addiction X, a 3D model and set up with 3 Flight modes on a 3-position switch, and have been working with it for a couple of months now. My Flight Mode 1 is straight stick and rudder with no AS3X or gyros active, and 50% rates to limit control surfaces. It is my Fail Safe I can revert back to for normal flight control.

Flight Mode 2 I call my Sport Mode. Rates are turned up to 75%, and 20% Conventional Gain on Roll, Pitch, and Yaw axis. It works well and I got that figured out. I can fly at full throttle with no oscillations on any of the axis, and It tames the wind and turbulence.

Flight Mode 3 is where I get a bit confused on how to set it up. My FM3 is what I call my 3D mode. This is where Heading Gain comes into play. What I am not sure about is how Conventional and Heading Gain interact with each other I think. That is the my issue, I do not know for certain. From what I gathered, I think anyway, from Spektrum you use both Conventional and Heading in equal amounts. Example I have mine set up with 50% Conventional and Heading Gain on all 3 axis with Relative turned on. Relative means I can adjust the Gains in Flight with my Transmitter as the AR636 has Telemetry to allow you to do this and see the values on the radio. What I am not crazy about is when you do adjust the gain with the TX, it adjust all 3 axis rather than just 1 you can select.

What gets me confused and has me questioning is why use both Conventional and Heading Gain. Seems to me you would want one or the other, not both. So if anyone can shine some light on that would be appreciated.

I did Optimize my 3D mode to find the maximum gain I can use without surface oscillation I would like to share as a tip. Hope I can explain it well enough. I set up the three modes to control each of the 3 axis.

On FM1 I set up for 100% Conventional and Heading Gain on the Roll axis, and 0% on Pitch and Yaw. On FM2 I set the Roll up like FM1 with 0% on Roll and Yaw. FM3 set up for Yaw. Then right before takeoff I rolled back each of the 3 FM gains to 50% because I knew 100% would create violent oscillations.

Then I take off in FM1 gain some altitude and fly a pass down the runway at throttle and turned the gain up until I seen Roll oscilations, then backed it off until oscillations stopped. Repeated process on FM2 and FM3.

Then landed and recorded the gains from the TX. Then I connected my cell phone to the RX, programmed FM1 to normal stick and rudder only controls as I described above and repeated for FM2 Sport Mode. On FM2 my 3D mode, I set the gains I recorded from the test flight. Worked out to be 45% on Roll, and 60% on Pitch and Yaw.

OK that is my take and if someone can explain how to use both Conventional and Heading gain would be appreciated and any other tips you might have. Like I said this is a Informational Thread to share information between users.

THX

Dereck


Hello Dereck,

Glad to see you started this info thread as I very recently started exploring the AR636 in another plane.

I fly 3D planes and became rather good at it, however, my Extreme Flight 48" Edge is so powerful yet extremely light it's gets thrown around in the wind quite easily making fighting the wind half the lipo time not the most efficient way to improve skills. My bigger Extreme Flight planes have no problem with the wind so I took the AR636 from an abandoned P-51 and wanted to try it in the 48" Edge.

After couple of flights the Rate gains are set to 18% on all surfaces and it makes a big difference in flying at our fields wind conditions.

BUT, the Heading gain is what gives me a little headache and even causes my Edge to crash last weekend.

I set my heading to 100% and to relative so I could alter it trough the TX in flight. HOWEVER, Spektrum says it is only active at center stick so how in the world is it going to hold a Knife Edge? So I tried. I made a nice pass Knife Edge and flipped the switch and...my Edge plummet to the ground just enough reflex to pull full Ele and I slammed on its belly with severe fuselage damage ( but reparable ).

So, to even perform a knife edge one needs to hold rudder input otherwise the maneuver can't be performed. So I switched to Heading and released the sticks to neutral and of course the rudder on the Edge did exactly that not holding the last rudder input to hold the knife Edge. The planes went on its yam axis down and the Heading kicked in and made some kind of new age 3D maneuver I never so but it wasn't me touching the sticks.

So I hope someone can clarify so in the world the so called attitude hold ( heading ) can be achieved when it's only active not touching the sticks but mandatory to hold some input for some maneuvers. The same is for hovering, you need to counteract the torque with aileron input but when releasing the sticks of course the plane starts to rotate and only then the heading kicks in.

Thanks, Philip
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Old 01-05-2016, 03:55 PM   #4
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Normally with heading hold type systems you no longer have a 'direct' connection between stick movement and control surface response. What you are actually doing when you move the stick is requesting a certain rate of rotation. So lets say you give an aileron input, the controller sees this as a request to achieve a certain roll rate (lets say 180 deg per second).. So the controller moves the ailerons until that roll rate is achieved. The amount that the surfaces move isn't directly related to how far the stick moved but to how far the controller needed to move them in order to achieve 180 deg per second roll rate.

If this is the way the AR636 works then in knife edge you should in theory be able to put the plane into the nose up knife edge position, then release the sticks. The controller should then maintain that same nose up knife edge orientation, leaving you only throttle to adjust.

In a hover it should just hover 'hands off' and compensate with all surfaces to achieve that perfect vertical 'non-rotating' hover without any additional input. You wouldn't need to hold aileron over to counter act torque, the controller should do that itself.

I'm not using the AR636, it's the Hobby Eagle A3 that I'm using but the flight modes appear on the face of things to be the same. Unfortunately terrible weather has prevented me doing much in the way of testing... hopefully I'll get chance this weekend.

PS.. if you have any knife edge mixes set in the Tx then you will need to disable them when flying on heading hold.
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:05 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jeuke26 View Post
I set my heading to 100% and to relative so I could alter it trough the TX in flight.
Phillip I am a bit ahead of you in setting up the RX. There is a Product thread on RCG on the Gyro RX, 140 pages worth, an dI popped in and got some pointers. I can help you set yours up. It is a bit time consuming, as it took me about 10 flights. I know why you crashed. Hopefully I can explain how to set it up good enough so you understand.

First thing is to find the Rate Gains optimum setting first. You were on the right track, but took a few wrong turns and derailed. The RX has 3 Flight Modes. In FM1 set the Rate gain to 100% on Roll axis only, and set it to Relative so you can adjust it when the plane is in flight. DO NOT SET any gains up for Pitch and Roll axis in FM1, leave the gyros turned off for Pitch and Yaw.

In FM2 do the same thing except for the Pitch axis. Leave the other two off. Finally in FM3 set it up for the YAW axis.

Once you havee th eGains set for all 3 Flight Modes, turn your TX and Receive on. DO NOT FLY yet or you will likely crash. Switch through each Flight Mode, and turn the gains down to 0% via your TX. Now take off in FM1 your Roll Gain mode. Get the plane up flying at 3/4 throttle and Increase the Roll Gain up until you see some oscillations. Once you see the oscillations, Roll Back the gain just until the oscillation stops.

Switch to FM2 your Pitch Mode and repeat the process. Then repeat for FM3 your Yaw Mode.

Land the plane, then before you turn the TX and TX off, switch through all 3 Flight Modes and record all 3 Axis gain percentages on paper.

Time to now hook up the RX to your Laptop or Cell Phone. Then on all 3 modes, set your gains to what you recorded for each Axis, and then set for Absolute because you no longer want to change them in flight. They will now be set to optimum and should need no further adjustment.

Now it is time for Heading Gains. Do it just like you did for Rate Gains. Set each FM for one axis to 100% with Relative turned ON. Before take off Roll each back to 0%. Get airborne like before and adjust each axis UP in percentage. If the gain is too low, the plane will not hold Attitude. If the Gain is too high, you will not be able to change Attitude or it will Wobble.. When finnished like before transfer all the Heading Gains to FM3.

Where you went wrong the first time is you set the Heading Gain to 100%. Don't do that or you will CRASH.

OK you should be tuned in now, and have a few oprions to set up your 3 Flight Modes. Her ei show I did mine.

FM1 is Plain Jane or my Safe Flight Mode with no Gyros. AS3X is turned off. I set Throws to 30% to limit surface travel to about 15 degrees deflection either way. Expos are set to my preference of about 30% on each.

FM2 is what I call Sport Mode. I only use Rate Gain of about 20% Absolute on each axis. That allows me to fly Full Throttle with no osculations and turns off the wind. Throws are at 50% which gives me about 30 degrees deflection on control surfaces. Expo is up around 40%.

FM3 is 3D mode. Setting are just where I left them. My Gains are

Roll 55% Rate, 62% Heading, Absolute on both
Pitch 60% Rate, 65% Heading, Absolute on both
Yaw 50% Rate, 70% Heading, Absolute on both.

Take off in FM3 is Thumbs off because it is a Tail Dragger just apply full power. Harriers, Hovering, and Knife Edges are Thumbs Off, just adjust throttle to control vertical speed (altitude).

Only thing I changed was Yaw Heading Gain. I ended up setting it to 80% Relative so I can adjust in flight doing knife edges. When I want High Attack Angle requires a higher Heading Gain to hold with Thumbs off..

Landing is super simple in 3D Mode. Just set the plain in a High Attack Angle Harrier of about 50 to 60 degrees and use the throttle to control descent. You can literally land at 0 Ground Speed setting the tail down gently with the Throttle. You control Ground Speed with the Attack Angle to compensate for the wind. Lower Attack Angle for higher air and/or ground speed, and vice versa for lower air/ground speed.
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Old 01-05-2016, 04:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Phillip I am a bit ahead of you in setting up the RX. There is a Product thread on RCG on the Gyro RX, 140 pages worth, an dI popped in and got some pointers. I can help you set yours up. It is a bit time consuming, as it took me about 10 flights. I know why you crashed. Hopefully I can explain how to set it up good enough so you understand.

First thing is to find the Rate Gains optimum setting first. You were on the right track, but took a few wrong turns and derailed. The RX has 3 Flight Modes. In FM1 set the Rate gain to 100% on Roll axis only, and set it to Relative so you can adjust it when the plane is in flight. DO NOT SET any gains up for Pitch and Roll axis in FM1, leave the gyros turned off for Pitch and Yaw.

In FM2 do the same thing except for the Pitch axis. Leave the other two off. Finally in FM3 set it up for the YAW axis.

Once you havee th eGains set for all 3 Flight Modes, turn your TX and Receive on. DO NOT FLY yet or you will likely crash. Switch through each Flight Mode, and turn the gains down to 0% via your TX. Now take off in FM1 your Roll Gain mode. Get the plane up flying at 3/4 throttle and Increase the Roll Gain up until you see some oscillations. Once you see the oscillations, Roll Back the gain just until the oscillation stops.

Switch to FM2 your Pitch Mode and repeat the process. Then repeat for FM3 your Yaw Mode.

Land the plane, then before you turn the TX and TX off, switch through all 3 Flight Modes and record all 3 Axis gain percentages on paper.

Time to now hook up the RX to your Laptop or Cell Phone. Then on all 3 modes, set your gains to what you recorded for each Axis, and then set for Absolute because you no longer want to change them in flight. They will now be set to optimum and should need no further adjustment.

Now it is time for Heading Gains. Do it just like you did for Rate Gains. Set each FM for one axis to 100% with Relative turned ON. Before take off Roll each back to 0%. Get airborne like before and adjust each axis UP in percentage. If the gain is too low, the plane will not hold Attitude. If the Gain is too high, you will not be able to change Attitude or it will Wobble.. When finnished like before transfer all the Heading Gains to FM3.

Where you went wrong the first time is you set the Heading Gain to 100%. Don't do that or you will CRASH.

OK you should be tuned in now, and have a few oprions to set up your 3 Flight Modes. Her ei show I did mine.

FM1 is Plain Jane or my Safe Flight Mode with no Gyros. AS3X is turned off. I set Throws to 30% to limit surface travel to about 15 degrees deflection either way. Expos are set to my preference of about 30% on each.

FM2 is what I call Sport Mode. I only use Rate Gain of about 20% Absolute on each axis. That allows me to fly Full Throttle with no osculations and turns off the wind. Throws are at 50% which gives me about 30 degrees deflection on control surfaces. Expo is up around 40%.

FM3 is 3D mode. Setting are just where I left them. My Gains are

Roll 55% Rate, 62% Heading, Absolute on both
Pitch 60% Rate, 65% Heading, Absolute on both
Yaw 50% Rate, 70% Heading, Absolute on both.

Take off in FM3 is Thumbs off because it is a Tail Dragger just apply full power. Harriers, Hovering, and Knife Edges are Thumbs Off, just adjust throttle to control vertical speed (altitude).

Only thing I changed was Yaw Heading Gain. I ended up setting it to 80% Relative so I can adjust in flight doing knife edges. When I want High Attack Angle requires a higher Heading Gain to hold with Thumbs off..

Landing is super simple in 3D Mode. Just set the plain in a High Attack Angle Harrier of about 50 to 60 degrees and use the throttle to control descent. You can literally land at 0 Ground Speed setting the tail down gently with the Throttle. You control Ground Speed with the Attack Angle to compensate for the wind. Lower Attack Angle for higher air and/or ground speed, and vice versa for lower air/ground speed.
Thanks Dereck for the extensive answer and I'm glad you took the time to respond. I'm fairly good at 3D flight except for some prop strikes on ( harrier ) landing never had a single crash. However if I would have crashed due to pilot error I wouldn't even bother as it is part of the ( steep ) learning curve. What I don't like is crashing because of electronics failure or programming issues ( in this case obviously my fault ).

Since the control surfaces on those kind of planes are so large I indeed setup Heading at 100% for all controls and I can tell you once you switch to that mode the result wasn't funny to watch.

I will try your approach but have one more question. Once everything is dialed in can you actually fly in mode 3 or do you only flip to that mode once you obtained a certain attitude ( like knife edge in my unsuccessful attempt )? I watched the Spektrum videos saying it is only active one centering the controls sticks on tx but then again doing so also centers the control surfaces. How does the plane "remember" you wanted to perform a knife edge? Or, once programmed correctly, does it kick in at last position the control surface was when centering the stick?

Thanks a lot!

Philip
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Jeuke26 View Post
I will try your approach but have one more question. Once everything is dialed in can you actually fly in mode 3 or do you only flip to that mode once you obtained a certain attitude ( like knife edge in my unsuccessful attempt )?
If set up like I have it, most certainly from take-off to landing. Everything depends on how you set it up.

Look back at what I said. I did everything at 3/4 Throttle Power. 3/4 is not real fast, just about right for Hover. If I go to full throttle in level flight or descend to steep and go to fast in FM3, I will get violent Roll Axis Oscillations. Takeaway is you set 3D Flight Mode for 3D airspeeds. If you go to fast with Gains set to high, bad things happen.

FM1 and FM2 are my Go Fast Modes. FM1 is just plain ole fashion RX with limited throws. There are no Rate or Heading Gain turned on or set. FM2 I have set with only Rate Gain of about 20% Absolute. There is no Heading gain on my FM2 I just use FM2 for straight aerobatics and to turn the wind off. I can go full throttle in FM1 and FM2.

Originally Posted by Jeuke26 View Post
I watched the Spektrum videos saying it is only active one centering the controls sticks on tx but then again doing so also centers the control surfaces. How does the plane "remember" you wanted to perform a knife edge? Or, once programmed correctly, does it kick in at last position the control surface was when centering the stick?
I think you have a misunderstanding how it works. Heading Gain is only active when the Sticks are centered. As soon as you touch the stick (except Throttle), Heading Gain is turned off. It reengages as soon as the sticks are centered. When centered, the plane should Hold in whatever Attitude Heading the plane is in when you turn loose of the control assuming you have enough Heading Gain and airspeed flowing over the control surfaces. The control surfaces DO NOT stay in neutral position, they operate to Hold the Attitude Heading when you last released the stick.

Example when I Hover assuming I have some airspeed, I level the wings fly into the wind, and pull the nose straight up and release the right stick. As the plane slows, I apply throttle so it holds altitude. Th eplane DOES NOT ROLL, PITCH or YAW. I can see the control surfaces moving especially the ailerons to keep the plane from torque rolling At that point it is all Throttle control.

If I want to transition from Hover to Harrier all IO do is pitch the nose over and release once I get the angle I want. Or I can go right into a Knife Edge from Hover by just using the Rudder stick to set the angle and release.

This is why I can do hands off take off. The plane is a Tail Draggger so the Pitch and Roll attitude are already perfect for take off. Just nail the throtle an dit goes right up into a normal take off climb with its nose pitched up the same angle as on the ground, wings level on the line it is pointing at.

Last thoughts. You can have Rate Gain or Conventional Gain without any Heading Gain. But you cannot have Heading Gain without Rate Gain. Secondly you would never use 100% gain in either Rate or Heading Gain. If you do you will crash. Start low in gain and work your way up.
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Old 01-05-2016, 07:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
If set up like I have it, most certainly from take-off to landing. Everything depends on how you set it up.

Look back at what I said. I did everything at 3/4 Throttle Power. 3/4 is not real fast, just about right for Hover. If I go to full throttle in level flight or descend to steep and go to fast in FM3, I will get violent Roll Axis Oscillations. Takeaway is you set 3D Flight Mode for 3D airspeeds. If you go to fast with Gains set to high, bad things happen.

FM1 and FM2 are my Go Fast Modes. FM1 is just plain ole fashion RX with limited throws. There are no Rate or Heading Gain turned on or set. FM2 I have set with only Rate Gain of about 20% Absolute. There is no Heading gain on my FM2 I just use FM2 for straight aerobatics and to turn the wind off. I can go full throttle in FM1 and FM2.



I think you have a misunderstanding how it works. Heading Gain is only active when the Sticks are centered. As soon as you touch the stick (except Throttle), Heading Gain is turned off. It reengages as soon as the sticks are centered. When centered, the plane should Hold in whatever Attitude Heading the plane is in when you turn loose of the control assuming you have enough Heading Gain and airspeed flowing over the control surfaces. The control surfaces DO NOT stay in neutral position, they operate to Hold the Attitude Heading when you last released the stick.

Example when I Hover assuming I have some airspeed, I level the wings fly into the wind, and pull the nose straight up and release the right stick. As the plane slows, I apply throttle so it holds altitude. Th eplane DOES NOT ROLL, PITCH or YAW. I can see the control surfaces moving especially the ailerons to keep the plane from torque rolling At that point it is all Throttle control.

If I want to transition from Hover to Harrier all IO do is pitch the nose over and release once I get the angle I want. Or I can go right into a Knife Edge from Hover by just using the Rudder stick to set the angle and release.

This is why I can do hands off take off. The plane is a Tail Draggger so the Pitch and Roll attitude are already perfect for take off. Just nail the throtle an dit goes right up into a normal take off climb with its nose pitched up the same angle as on the ground, wings level on the line it is pointing at.

Last thoughts. You can have Rate Gain or Conventional Gain without any Heading Gain. But you cannot have Heading Gain without Rate Gain. Secondly you would never use 100% gain in either Rate or Heading Gain. If you do you will crash. Start low in gain and work your way up.
Thanks Dereck, clear enough. Will give a second try once my beloved Edge is airworthy again.
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Old 01-05-2016, 08:23 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Jeuke26 View Post
Thanks Dereck, clear enough. Will give a second try once my beloved Edge is airworthy again.
You are welcome. Just start out with baby steps. Get the Conventional Rate Gains done and set first before you take on Heading Gains.

It took me 6 batteries to just get Rate Gains down. It was windy and I only get 4 to 5 minutes per battery. Had there not been wind could have done it with 1 or 2 batteries. Just remember you cannot have Heading Gain without Rate Gain. So get Rate gains set first, then come back and get Heading gain.

Once you get it working. Then experiment a little. Just keep in mind it is better to error on the low side of gains. You will not crash if gains are too low. Set them too high and you will crash.

Baby steps my friend.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:46 PM   #10
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Hi Derek. Thank you for the very best explanation I have found on setting up the gains on as3x. I have one question though. Can you tell me about your priority settings and maybe explain those to me to the best of your ability. Much appreciated.

Paul
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:51 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
If set up like I have it, most certainly from take-off to landing. Everything depends on how you set it up.

Look back at what I said. I did everything at 3/4 Throttle Power. 3/4 is not real fast, just about right for Hover. If I go to full throttle in level flight or descend to steep and go to fast in FM3, I will get violent Roll Axis Oscillations. Takeaway is you set 3D Flight Mode for 3D airspeeds. If you go to fast with Gains set to high, bad things happen.

FM1 and FM2 are my Go Fast Modes. FM1 is just plain ole fashion RX with limited throws. There are no Rate or Heading Gain turned on or set. FM2 I have set with only Rate Gain of about 20% Absolute. There is no Heading gain on my FM2 I just use FM2 for straight aerobatics and to turn the wind off. I can go full throttle in FM1 and FM2.



I think you have a misunderstanding how it works. Heading Gain is only active when the Sticks are centered. As soon as you touch the stick (except Throttle), Heading Gain is turned off. It reengages as soon as the sticks are centered. When centered, the plane should Hold in whatever Attitude Heading the plane is in when you turn loose of the control assuming you have enough Heading Gain and airspeed flowing over the control surfaces. The control surfaces DO NOT stay in neutral position, they operate to Hold the Attitude Heading when you last released the stick.

Example when I Hover assuming I have some airspeed, I level the wings fly into the wind, and pull the nose straight up and release the right stick. As the plane slows, I apply throttle so it holds altitude. Th eplane DOES NOT ROLL, PITCH or YAW. I can see the control surfaces moving especially the ailerons to keep the plane from torque rolling At that point it is all Throttle control.

If I want to transition from Hover to Harrier all IO do is pitch the nose over and release once I get the angle I want. Or I can go right into a Knife Edge from Hover by just using the Rudder stick to set the angle and release.

This is why I can do hands off take off. The plane is a Tail Draggger so the Pitch and Roll attitude are already perfect for take off. Just nail the throtle an dit goes right up into a normal take off climb with its nose pitched up the same angle as on the ground, wings level on the line it is pointing at.

Last thoughts. You can have Rate Gain or Conventional Gain without any Heading Gain. But you cannot have Heading Gain without Rate Gain. Secondly you would never use 100% gain in either Rate or Heading Gain. If you do you will crash. Start low in gain and work your way up.
This is absolutely the best explanation I have found on as3x gain setup. Thank you soooo much. Can you please explain priority settings. I have a ar9350 in a 73 inch Yak gasser. Thanks, Paul
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Old 01-27-2016, 05:00 PM   #12
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Sorry but trying to get enough posts to PM and email.
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Old 01-27-2016, 05:11 PM   #13
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Thanks Derek for an awesome response. I would really like to understand more about the priority settings if you can help.

The as3x app defaults to 100 but I do not understand how raising or lowering the value affects control and feel. I will be setting up my Flight modes as you have FM1 failsafe, FM2 go fast, and FM 3 for 3D. Would like to have a good idea of priority settings for FM 2 & 3 and what to expect feel wise if I raise or lower them. Also any suggestions you may have for expo settings in FM3 with massive control throws.

Additionally, my as3x android app has no dual rate and expo function in it. I have read that it has now been defaulted to tx. Is this your understanding as well?

Thanks for your help. Paul
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Old 01-27-2016, 05:12 PM   #14
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Last post to hit 5. My apologies again.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:01 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by PJAEG View Post
Thanks Derek for an awesome response. I would really like to understand more about the priority settings if you can help.

The as3x app defaults to 100 but I do not understand how raising or lowering the value affects control and feel. I will be setting up my Flight modes as you have FM1 failsafe, FM2 go fast, and FM 3 for 3D. Would like to have a good idea of priority settings for FM 2 & 3 and what to expect feel wise if I raise or lower them. Also any suggestions you may have for expo settings in FM3 with massive control throws.

Additionally, my as3x android app has no dual rate and expo function in it. I have read that it has now been defaulted to tx. Is this your understanding as well?

Thanks for your help. Paul
Check your PM.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:02 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by PJAEG View Post
Additionally, my as3x android app has no dual rate and expo function in it. I have read that it has now been defaulted to tx. Is this your understanding as well?
No Sir it is not. Check your PM and call.
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Old 02-11-2016, 06:43 PM   #17
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Excellent guide on setting up the AR636.

My understanding is that Spektrum are moving the dual rates and expo setting away from the RX back to the transmitter and have done so on the higher end AS3X receivers but not the AR636 yet. I believe it is planned for future firmware updates

I have yet to try my AR636 and will try my Eagle Hobby A3 Super 2 first as it seems a bit easier to set up

Simon
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by swarrans View Post
My understanding is that Spektrum are moving the dual rates and expo setting away from the RX back to the transmitter
That is confirmed. Not so sure that makes it any easier to set up as EXPO and Dual rates are straight forward. FWIW Dual Rates is the wrong terminology with 3 Flight Modes. Perhaps Tri-Rates is more accurate IMO

For me the hard thing to get my noodle wrapped around was the difference between Conventional and Heading gains and how to tell what is too much or not enough. Second thing I am still trying to work out is Priority.

I have Conventional and Heading gains worked out. Trick is you must work out Conventional gain out before tackling Heading Gain.

I do see a problem with Spectrum taking Expo and Rates off the RX. I assume they will leave 3 Flight Modes. If you set up as instructed where FM1 is safe with no Gyros and low rates. FM2 for aerobatic, and FM3 for 3D demands you change Expo and Rates. If a beginner does not make the connection to put Expo's , Rates, and FM all on a single 3-position switch could easily throw a plane out of control. So I am not so sure that was a good idea or not.

What I do wish is Spektrum could have done a much better job of explaining Conventional, Heading, Relative, and Absolute Gains and how they interact with relation to Priority. Because if you do not understand and say set gains high with low Priority, you have no control and cannot change the plane attitude. That is why I STARTED THIS THREAD so all of us could share what we have learned and better understand how it works. I have most of it worked out except Priority. Perhaps a little bit more is needed on my part with Heading Gains. Conventional is Easy Peasy if you remember airspeed is the key to setting it correctly.
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:10 PM   #19
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I know this is an old thread but yes this is a very good in depth explanation of the process to go through to set up gains on any particular model. Thank you.

I saw something that I was not aware and explains something I observed on a 7350 RX. No place to set DR and Expo which is fine by me. Prefer to do it TX side as it is alot easier to check your settings on the TX than connecting to a laptop or a phone compatible with the software - same goes for making changes. Or at the very least, make DR and Expo that is set on the RX viewable on the TX. I don't think that's an option or at least I can't figure out how.

I also saw in one of the posts here that they plan on transferring DR and Expo functions back to the TX in firmware updates for the 636 - anyone know when that's going to happen?

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Old 08-18-2016, 01:53 PM   #20
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I also realize this is a old thread, but I am extremely interested in more info as to how others have set up different types of planes with the AS3X receivers.
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Old 08-18-2016, 02:15 PM   #21
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What Dereck posted is the most in depth explanation I've seen and mirrors what HH touched on in one of their videos. Each model has to be tuned and that's about the only way to accomplish it without guessing or using settings that someone has tested with the model you're interested in

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Old 08-18-2016, 04:11 PM   #22
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I wished I could tell you how to set up the RX for every plane, but I cannot just my plane. It is all Trial and Error. Just be careful as some Errors like Gain being set to High is one you cannot recover from.

Use Relative Gain so you can make adjustments while flying working on 1-axis at a time. Start at say 20% and work your way up until you see the osculations, than back off the gain until oscillations stops.

Keep in mind airspeed has a lot of influence. If you set the plane up at say half throttle, and speed up you stand a chance of loosing control if the plane goes into Oscillations at higher air speeds.

Last tip set up Flight Mode 1 as your safety net with no gyros turned on, and moderate throws. FM1 is just plain ole Stick and Rudder Flying you learned to fly with. It gets you off the ground, back under control, and back on the ground in one piece.

As for me I made FM2 my Sports Mode for higher air speeds which means lower gain settings. FM3 is my 3D mode or Post Stall very slow air speed. Danger with that is if I am flying straight and level going fast and switch to FM3, I would certainly strip the gears out of my servos from the violent osculations that would occur.

So just be aware the gyros not only can help you, they can also destroy you if you are ignorant about how it operates.

I will say this, once you have the thing dialed in makes it a real pleasure to fly, especially the 3D maneuvers. On FM2 my Sports Mode is so fine tuned the plane looks like it is flying on rails. What ever attitude I set the plane in with the sticks, the gyros hold it until I tell it to change. It is like Flying a simulator on a model with Fly by Wire .
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:00 AM   #23
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Dereck - quick question if you don't mind. DX9 with AR636. FM switch (C) AUX1.

Have roll - pitch - yaw as suggested for FM1 - 2 - 3 all set to relative. On the AS3X screen on the DX9 - have Inut as left trim - channel is AUX1 - FM Switch C

L Trim has no affects on gain settings whatsoever. I've looked at this quite a few times and I can't see what I missed or maybe I'm not understanding the process here.

Also seeing something odd. As an example - starting gains were roll-10 pitch 12 and yaw 14

On the gains screen I'm seeing half of these values - so roll -5 pitch-6 and yaw-7

and again, using the left trimmer - the gain value changes but the value for the particular axis does not.

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Old 08-19-2016, 04:09 AM   #24
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RCPILOT134 I will try to help. First I use a DX6, so not cure if my setup can be duplicated on a DX9 or not. Pretty sure it can.

First up make sure your aircraft type is set up correctly in the AR636 with tail type, wing type, and one or two servos for ailerons. Fundamental I know, but double check it. FWIW Mine is:

Wing = Dual Aileron
Tail = Normal

Next up double check you RX ch/port assignments match your TX assignments

1. Throttle
2. Aileron Right
3. Elevator
4. Rudder
5. Gear (FM Switch D, 3 position switch)
6. Aux 1 Aileron Left

On the AR636 FM channel is either Gear or Aux-1 channel. My Addiction X uses 2-servos for ailerons, so each gets a channel in my setup 2 and 6.

Next up Flight Mode in your TX setup.

Set to a unused 3-position switch. I use switch D which is where you would normally assign to Flaps. It is the switch directly above the Left Joystick (rud/throttle) You can use any unused 3-position switch.

Nest up on your TX go to TELEMETRY setting and set 1 = AS3X. Display = Roller. Use your Roller to adjust gain. But you have to ell the TX what to use.

First tip I can give you is you do not have to fly or even run the motor to test. Just power up the RX and TX and check controls. On my 3 Flight Modes my RATES Progress from 1 to 3. Example using my Elevator on FM 1 the RATE = 30%. FM2 = 60%, and FM3 = 100%. All I have to do is hold the Elevator full up or down and cycle between the modes and watch the control surfaces. . FM1 just 30% deflection, FM2 60%, and FM the full 100% deflection. You can do that with all three Axis rud, ele and ail..

As a final check while pre-flighting is switch to FM3, run the throttle up to 50% to activate the gyros, than back throttle off and move the aircraft around. Yaw it and you should see the Rudder operate in the opposite direction. Same for pitch and roll axis. You see that then you know it is at least working.

Finally what I suspect is maybe two things might be wrong.

1. Your Telemetry is not set up properly. Use the Roller, not a Trim.
2. Most likely cause is you do not understand how the Relative function works. I will give it a shot to explain it. When you set say YAW to 15%, that 15% is maximum 100% on your TX Telemetry. Your Telemetry adjustment is 0 to 100%. So if you start with the Telemeter saying 0% is 0 % on the RX. So let's say you run up the TX Telemetry to 34$ translates to 5% on the RX. To get to 15% gain max you set in the RX, is 100% in the TX. So in Otherwords max gain you set to in the RX is 15% and the TX controls that in 50 increments. So on your TX you see in 2% increments o, 2, 4, 6, 8...... 100 or 50 clicks on a Trimmer.

Here is how I did mine one axis at a time. Set Relative gain to 100%. Note this is dangerous if you do not follow the next step correctly. Before you take off, make darn sure your Telemetry is set to 0% or something very low. You want it basically turned off.

Get airborne at the speed you intend for the MODE, and slowly Increase the TX gain up until you notice mild oscillations, then back it off until the osculations stop, Land and take a note what the percentage is on you TX..

Next turn the YAW gain off, and turn on Pitch to 100% and repeat as above. Take note where it ended up at. Repeat for last Axis.

Once you have all 3 axis, then go into the RX and Set Relative to what you recorded for each axis. You are set. Just remember your TX percentage does not equal RX Percentage. Well it does if you turn the gains up to 100% which is a guaranteed crash.
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:26 AM   #25
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Just want to make one point CRYSTAL CLEAR with the AS3X receivers. No matter how tempted you are to do otherwise. Set FM1 to standard plain Jane with no GAINS of any kind. I use min eon a 3D model and on my FM! I have Throw Rates at 30% (I DO NOT MEAN GAIN RATES, I mean Deflection Rates) because my control surfaces are massive, and my Expo fairly high around 60%. This makes the plane fly like a Cessna very easy, gentle, and predictable. It is my SAFE MODE or Get Out of Jail Free Card.

Trust me you will need it. I promise you are going to push the envelope in FM2 and FM3 experimenting. Eventually you are going to turn up a Gain or Priority setting to high, and when you do that the plane has a mind of its own and you will have no or little control.

FM1 is your friend, don't piss him off or run him off. You are going to need him. Even when you have FM2 and FM3 dialed in, do not change FM1 for the simple fact gyros have been known to go STUPIUD. This is especially true with 3D planes as the Turn and Roll rate is heavy on G forces can confuse the gyros. That is when you need a FRIEND you keep locked up in FM1 box. Let him out when you get in trouble.
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