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Converting PZ Spitfire to brushless

Old 07-28-2008, 08:43 PM
  #26  
DetroitHawk
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
I definately should have gone with a more powerful motor shouldnt i Detroit H ? Im a bit gutted about that ,i might send it back and get a different 1

http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=962

KABOOM, this is the motor from that site i liked the most it cost less money has far more power and has the right Kv to make your plane rip holes in the sky!!!

just because you can make it go fast doesn't mean you have to, you could put a bigger diameter prop with less of a prop pitch to give a slower flying plane with more thrust, BUT to have the ability to dial it up with a different prop to push this plane to somewhere around 140kmh would be nice too.

I would get atleast a 40amp ESC for this motor if you choose this one. It will pull even harder then my Hacker motor! That eflight motor is rated for 250 watts, this WASP motor is rated at 350watts. More power = more speed, the weight is about the same, yet it costs less $$$$
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:37 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=962

KABOOM, this is the motor from that site i liked the most it cost less money has far more power and has the right Kv to make your plane rip holes in the sky!!!

just because you can make it go fast doesn't mean you have to, you could put a bigger diameter prop with less of a prop pitch to give a slower flying plane with more thrust, BUT to have the ability to dial it up with a different prop to push this plane to somewhere around 140kmh would be nice too.

I would get atleast a 40amp ESC for this motor if you choose this one. It will pull even harder then my Hacker motor! That eflight motor is rated for 250 watts, this WASP motor is rated at 350watts. More power = more speed, the weight is about the same, yet it costs less $$$$
Your a star DH thats great,i'll ring them 1st thing in the morning and get them to swap the motor i ordered with that 1.i love the idea too that even tho u have very powerful motor u can slow it down with a prop,brilliant
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:08 PM
  #28  
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Joeted
Been looking at the same site for cheapish BL motors here in teh UK.
I was considdering http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=334 as a cheap combo deal. The 350w will probably be a monster. More fun no doubt, now I am tempted... DOH!

Keen to see how it turns out.
Just remember the earlier comment about flying it nice and gentle. If you put that motor in and give it full up... YOU WILL snap the wing in HALF. I managed to stress the foam (before cabon rods) on the stock setup with just a Lipo ...
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:59 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by LectricPlane View Post
Joeted
Been looking at the same site for cheapish BL motors here in teh UK.
I was considdering http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=334 as a cheap combo deal. The 350w will probably be a monster. More fun no doubt, now I am tempted... DOH!

Keen to see how it turns out.
Just remember the earlier comment about flying it nice and gentle. If you put that motor in and give it full up... YOU WILL snap the wing in HALF. I managed to stress the foam (before cabon rods) on the stock setup with just a Lipo ...
Thanks for your comments buddy.im definately gonna be flying it gentle to start with,i'll probably have to wear a pair of pampers for the first few flights lol. I might have to get u to give me some in depth pointers as to where exactly to put the cf rods coz the rods sound like a must with this kind of power.if thats ok
cheers again mate
ps just looked at your pics,very nice
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:38 AM
  #30  
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No problem. Give a shout when you are ready.
I'll post when I get mine done. It will be a while though. Budget stuffed and time even worse at the mo. prob to the end of the year. I have to sneak in to work early and fly at 6;30am just to keep in practice as it is.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:11 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Loving the balance stand mate ,might have to have a go at doing 1 of them.What do u do if the balancing is out then ? Im starting to have 2nd thoughts about the motor i chose now.Do u know what the 2nd little box is for with the dx6i ? I know one is the reciever but not sure bout the 1 that u mentioned putting under the cockpit.
Also i havnt got the lipos yet,i'll probably need help with them too .am i right in thinking u need a certain charger to go with what battery u buy ? and ive heard things about balancers too ?
Sorry for confusing you! The AR6200 receiver that comes with the new DX6i is a full range receiver, not just for park flyers. It is more expensive and considered a better receiver than the AR6100. The extra box is a second receiver linked to the main receiver by a wire. Two receivers working at the same time for redundancy, if one gets a blocked signal then the other one picks up the slack. If money were no object, it would probably be safer to run the AR6200 in everthing.


If your plane does not balance, first try moving things fore or aft to shift the weight. If you can't get it balanced by moving components, then you will have to add weight (like coins or lead). Depending on how heavy your motor will be, you might mount the ESC up front in the cowl, or back in the fuselage like I did.
The battery is the heaviest thing in the plane and a great way to adjust balance, but the Spits battery tray fits the lipo tightly. You could try to modify the tray, but I have not found a glue that will stick to the plastic frame. You might have to engineer something.

If you have to resort to extra weights, put them as far forward or rear as you can so you wont have to add as much.
Start out by mounting the motor, and temporarily place the other stuff with tape, assemble the plane and test.

Everyone has their opinion on lipos. You can buy a Thunder Power for $60, or buy three cheapies from Hobby City in Hong Kong for the same money.
I am using the ABF 3S 2200 from Hobby City. They fit the Spit battery tray perfectly. You should get a balancing charger that will do up to 3 cell lipos. I balance charge every time I charge. A balanced lipo is healthier.
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:54 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by LectricPlane View Post
No problem. Give a shout when you are ready.
I'll post when I get mine done. It will be a while though. Budget stuffed and time even worse at the mo. prob to the end of the year. I have to sneak in to work early and fly at 6;30am just to keep in practice as it is.
thanks mate i will do then.shouldnt be long now.Im skint but i cant resist buying plane stuff
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:03 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Larry G View Post
Sorry for confusing you! The AR6200 receiver that comes with the new DX6i is a full range receiver, not just for park flyers. It is more expensive and considered a better receiver than the AR6100. The extra box is a second receiver linked to the main receiver by a wire. Two receivers working at the same time for redundancy, if one gets a blocked signal then the other one picks up the slack. If money were no object, it would probably be safer to run the AR6200 in everthing.


If your plane does not balance, first try moving things fore or aft to shift the weight. If you can't get it balanced by moving components, then you will have to add weight (like coins or lead). Depending on how heavy your motor will be, you might mount the ESC up front in the cowl, or back in the fuselage like I did.
The battery is the heaviest thing in the plane and a great way to adjust balance, but the Spits battery tray fits the lipo tightly. You could try to modify the tray, but I have not found a glue that will stick to the plastic frame. You might have to engineer something.

If you have to resort to extra weights, put them as far forward or rear as you can so you wont have to add as much.
Start out by mounting the motor, and temporarily place the other stuff with tape, assemble the plane and test.

Everyone has their opinion on lipos. You can buy a Thunder Power for $60, or buy three cheapies from Hobby City in Hong Kong for the same money.
I am using the ABF 3S 2200 from Hobby City. They fit the Spit battery tray perfectly. You should get a balancing charger that will do up to 3 cell lipos. I balance charge every time I charge. A balanced lipo is healthier.
Oh i see ,sounds like a good idea having 2 recievers so theres pretty much no chance of getting interferance.
quality info on balancing too thanks.What would be the difference between buying 3 cheap lipos and 1 very good lipo ? does the more expensive 1 last longer or something ? also have u got to get a balancer specifically for the battery u have or will any balancer go with any battery ? and will any charger go with any battery also ? is it easy to use the battery balancer for someone like me who hasnt used them before ? sorry for all the questions Larry
Thanks for everyones continued help by the way
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:56 PM
  #34  
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I have purchased batteries from these guys http://www.giantcod.co.uk/index.php I thought I would try them with low expectations just like the prices and I was really surprised. My current Lipos are Eflite and some other cheap ones but these ones rock! I fly with a lipo monitor and with the Eflite cells, the lipo monitor (beeps at 3.2v/cell) starts to beep after 6 mins or so in a PZ T28, even after 9 mins flying, these Loong Max cells were not beeping.

Their motors, ESC, and Servos seam very cheap also.
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Old 07-30-2008, 01:07 AM
  #35  
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I like 3 cheap lipos instead of one expensive one because I can fly 3 times longer for the same money. I do not try to field charge batteries in my car, could lead to a burned up car! I charge them all up during the week and fly untill I'm out of batteries. Plus if you crash and damage it, you are out less.

A lipo is 3.7 volts per cell, so a 3 cell lipo is 11.1V, which is what you want for the Spit. The size or capacity you want is 1800 to 2250, the bigger will fly longer. I get about 7 minute flights out of my Hobby City ABF 2100 batteries. I could go longer, but I prefer not to dead stick my landings.

Any lipo charger will work, as long as it does 3 cell, which is common.
Many chargers now have a built-in balancing feature, and you can get recomendations on chargers over in that forum. I'd get a balancing charger for sure.
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Old 07-30-2008, 02:33 AM
  #36  
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ok about lipos, you need to pay attention to the C rating also, for example

a 2000mah battery with a 20 C rating will max out at 40amps if you go much over that you will cook the battery = your plane crashes.

If you had a 1000mah lipo with a 20C rating it would be 20amps, most lipos you will find should have a good C rating but make sure, cheap is cheap but it needs to get the job done foremost
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Old 07-30-2008, 07:12 AM
  #37  
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A question for someone who has converted their PZ Spitfire to brushless. How much does the stock motor/gearbox assembly weigh? I have a nice 2.7 oz outrunner that might go in mine soon.

Thanks
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:12 PM
  #38  
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Well my motor and radio should arrive tomorrow,thanks to DH for pointing out the motor and Larry for the radio,big help thanks.Im looking at esc's now and getting ready to order but i must say all the descriptions are a bit overwhelming for me .I know DH said get a 40amp which i will do but ive looked at 1 esc and the description says this "Specification:
* Input voltages: 5-12V (2-3S)
* Nixx Battery: 6-10 Cells
* LiPo Battery: 2-3S LiPo
* Brake: Yes
* Soft start: Yes
* Continuous current: 40A
* Peak current: 50A
* Weight (incl. wires): 28g
* Dimensions: 47 x 23 x 8mm
* BEC: 5V 3A
* LiPo/Servos: 2S = 4 Servos 3S = 3 Servos
* Nixx/Servos: 6 Cell = 4 Servo 8 Cell = 4 Servo, 10 Cell = 2 Servo

Apart from weight and dimensions I have not got a clue what any of that means and my brain is burning up
bare in mind i dont fully understand amps and volts etc yet.
DH and Larry.... I need you
this is the link to that esc http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop&item=802
I especially dont understand BEC , i know what it means but dont get if i need it or not or what it does

Last edited by joeted; 07-30-2008 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:26 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Gohmer View Post
A question for someone who has converted their PZ Spitfire to brushless. How much does the stock motor/gearbox assembly weigh? I have a nice 2.7 oz outrunner that might go in mine soon.

Thanks
that motor is a good weight, you should have no problem

That is about the same weight as my hacker motor i use
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Well my motor and radio should arrive tomorrow,thanks to DH for pointing out the motor and Larry for the radio,big help thanks.Im looking at esc's now and getting ready to order but i must say all the descriptions are a bit overwhelming for me .I know DH said get a 40amp which i will do but ive looked at 1 esc and the description says this "Specification:
* Input voltages: 5-12V (2-3S)
* Nixx Battery: 6-10 Cells
* LiPo Battery: 2-3S LiPo
* Brake: Yes
* Soft start: Yes
* Continuous current: 40A
* Peak current: 50A
* Weight (incl. wires): 28g
* Dimensions: 47 x 23 x 8mm
* BEC: 5V 3A
* LiPo/Servos: 2S = 4 Servos 3S = 3 Servos
* Nixx/Servos: 6 Cell = 4 Servo 8 Cell = 4 Servo, 10 Cell = 2 Servo

Apart from weight and dimensions I have not got a clue what any of that means and my brain is burning up
bare in mind i dont fully understand amps and volts etc yet.
DH and Larry.... I need you
this is the link to that esc http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop&item=802
That ESC should do just fine, you will only need 2 servos maybe 3 if you do a rudder mod, you should be just fine. Some people have put two servos in the wing for the ailerons but i don't think it is needed, you have to remember the faster you travel the faster the plane will react to the control surfaces. Seems like a fair price too.
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Old 07-30-2008, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
That ESC should do just fine, you will only need 2 servos maybe 3 if you do a rudder mod, you should be just fine. Some people have put two servos in the wing for the ailerons but i don't think it is needed, you have to remember the faster you travel the faster the plane will react to the control surfaces. Seems like a fair price too.
Ok thanks buddy.couldnt i go to a 70A esc without BEC (not that I know what BEC actually does lol)if i wanted ,isnt it a case of "the higher the number the better it would be " ?
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:31 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Gohmer View Post
A question for someone who has converted their PZ Spitfire to brushless. How much does the stock motor/gearbox assembly weigh? I have a nice 2.7 oz outrunner that might go in mine soon.

Thanks
Motor and gearbox minus prop and spinner was 135grams.
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Old 07-31-2008, 12:34 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Ok thanks buddy.couldnt i go to a 70A esc without BEC (not that I know what BEC actually does lol)if i wanted ,isnt it a case of "the higher the number the better it would be " ?
You don't need to worry, 4 micro servos won't draw more than 1A in flight and most ESC's are good for at least 2A. If you want to go overboard on the ESC and fit extra BEC's as well, you have to consider all the extra weight will be counterproductive.

Keep it simple.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:27 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Ok thanks buddy.couldnt i go to a 70A esc without BEC (not that I know what BEC actually does lol)if i wanted ,isnt it a case of "the higher the number the better it would be " ?
You will have no issue with those servos, however lets be reasonable here, make no mistake 40AMPS is ALOT of power, just think about it 400watts is like a small microwave flying around in the air.

With your set up in this Parkzone Spitfire i would have to assume 40 amps would fit the bill for most of what you would want to do. The harsh reality is once you need that 70 amps you are going to pay out a ton more $$ for the battery that powers those 70 amps, and a new charger to recharge such battery, and on top of that you will have more weight = bigger plane = more $$$ = not quite as fun as a park hotrod, if you get my drift.

Honestly don't let me stop you, however if you are on a budget maybe your $$ is better spent on another item in this great hobby.
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Old 07-31-2008, 05:06 AM
  #45  
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Joeted,

BEC = battery eliminator circut. On gas powered planes, you have to have a small battery just to run the receiver and servos. You could use the same set up on elecric aircraft, but why when you have a giant battery on board to power the motor? The BEC in the ESC splits off 5 volts to power your receiver and servos. As I understand it, you can use an external BEC with just about any ESC by snipping a wire to disable it.
I'd just use the built in BEC on a PZ Spit with only 2-3 servos

The ESC also has a voltage cut off which shuts off your motor, but saves some juice for the servos so you still have control and can dead-stick it in. A 3 cell 11.1V lipo will be ruined if the voltage is allowed to drop below 9 volts, so the voltage cut off is critical. The ESC voltage cut off point is adjustable, so you must set it properly. I recomend getting the programming card, there are a have dozen settings to adjust on a ESC and if you dont have the card you have to go through a "beep-code" process that looks like a pain in the arse.

I standardized my ESC's, and all of mine are Turnigy Plush. I bought the $6.00 programming card and can use it on all of mine.

40 amps are plenty. A park 480 motor or one size up from a park 480 is plenty. Don't get too nuts here. The thing is going to be so much faster than stock it will be scarey!!!!

I remember how confusing all this electrical stuff was when I first started getting into it. Just keep reading the forums. Keep asking questions. I learn something every day reading Wattflyer!
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:07 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
You will have no issue with those servos, however lets be reasonable here, make no mistake 40AMPS is ALOT of power, just think about it 400watts is like a small microwave flying around in the air.

With your set up in this Parkzone Spitfire i would have to assume 40 amps would fit the bill for most of what you would want to do. The harsh reality is once you need that 70 amps you are going to pay out a ton more $$ for the battery that powers those 70 amps, and a new charger to recharge such battery, and on top of that you will have more weight = bigger plane = more $$$ = not quite as fun as a park hotrod, if you get my drift.

Honestly don't let me stop you, however if you are on a budget maybe your $$ is better spent on another item in this great hobby.
ok cheers buddy,im slowing starting to understand amp,volts etc now.still a bit confusing to me but i'll get there.hopefully i wont sound stupid for too much longer
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Old 08-01-2008, 12:16 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Larry G View Post
Joeted,

BEC = battery eliminator circut. On gas powered planes, you have to have a small battery just to run the receiver and servos. You could use the same set up on elecric aircraft, but why when you have a giant battery on board to power the motor? The BEC in the ESC splits off 5 volts to power your receiver and servos. As I understand it, you can use an external BEC with just about any ESC by snipping a wire to disable it.
I'd just use the built in BEC on a PZ Spit with only 2-3 servos

The ESC also has a voltage cut off which shuts off your motor, but saves some juice for the servos so you still have control and can dead-stick it in. A 3 cell 11.1V lipo will be ruined if the voltage is allowed to drop below 9 volts, so the voltage cut off is critical. The ESC voltage cut off point is adjustable, so you must set it properly. I recomend getting the programming card, there are a have dozen settings to adjust on a ESC and if you dont have the card you have to go through a "beep-code" process that looks like a pain in the arse.

I standardized my ESC's, and all of mine are Turnigy Plush. I bought the $6.00 programming card and can use it on all of mine.

40 amps are plenty. A park 480 motor or one size up from a park 480 is plenty. Don't get too nuts here. The thing is going to be so much faster than stock it will be scarey!!!!

I remember how confusing all this electrical stuff was when I first started getting into it. Just keep reading the forums. Keep asking questions. I learn something every day reading Wattflyer!
Thanks Larry youve explained that really well and im starting to get it now,great job.is it hard to use the programming card and will i understand it? coz ive seen one for the esc for 10 so i'll get that if u recommend them. got my motor and radio thru today.the dx6i looks very complicated compared to the box standard pz spit radio which is what im used to.also i think that motor mount link that i put in a few posts ago will be ok to use dont u ? whats your thoughts DH on that ? all i need to order is the esc,batt and charger/balancer and prop so only another 2,000,000,000 to go
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:16 AM
  #48  
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Joeted,

The programming cards are simple to use. You plug the battery onto the esc, and plug the small wire that goes from the ESC to the receiver into the programming card instead. LED lights indicate the settings. You push buttons to change settings. The ESC and card should come with instructions on what the various settings do, if you need help just shout. If you don't have the card, you have to plug the esc into the receiver and use the transmitter sticks to select the settings by going through a beep-code proceedure. The instuctions will show that too. Kinda like Morse code!

Get the card made for your brand of ESC, my buddy tried his brand-X ESC on my Turnigy card and it did not work at all.

The instruction book for the DX6i doesn't explain much for the new user. I was pretty overwhelmed at first, but I'm getting the hang of it. Main thing is bind the receiver, and make sure you have the servos going the right way or you have to set the radio to reverse them. Don't accidentally reverse the throttle with the plane "hot" or it will instantly go to full throttle. I did that, loads of fun, if you don't get chopped up!


That motor mount will be great, as long as it isn't too long.
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Old 08-01-2008, 07:03 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Larry G View Post
Joeted,

The programming cards are simple to use. You plug the battery onto the esc, and plug the small wire that goes from the ESC to the receiver into the programming card instead. LED lights indicate the settings. You push buttons to change settings. The ESC and card should come with instructions on what the various settings do, if you need help just shout. If you don't have the card, you have to plug the esc into the receiver and use the transmitter sticks to select the settings by going through a beep-code proceedure. The instuctions will show that too. Kinda like Morse code!

Get the card made for your brand of ESC, my buddy tried his brand-X ESC on my Turnigy card and it did not work at all.

The instruction book for the DX6i doesn't explain much for the new user. I was pretty overwhelmed at first, but I'm getting the hang of it. Main thing is bind the receiver, and make sure you have the servos going the right way or you have to set the radio to reverse them. Don't accidentally reverse the throttle with the plane "hot" or it will instantly go to full throttle. I did that, loads of fun, if you don't get chopped up!


That motor mount will be great, as long as it isn't too long.
ok thanks mate i'll get the programming card it sounds alot easier.
Can u tell me what "bind" the reciever means please ? and what is "reverse the throttle with the plane hot"? sorry i sound stupid im not up to much with the plane lingo at the minute but i'll get there,I'll make u lot proud lol
also on the lipo front, if money was no object would there be anything stopping me getting a 5000mah lipo as long as it was no higher than 11.1v?

Last edited by joeted; 08-01-2008 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 08-01-2008, 08:07 PM
  #50  
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Binding is linking the 2.4ghz RX to the radio, traditionally with FM or AM based system you would like the RX to the radio by using matched crystals (the frequency or channel) but 2.4ghz being digital can store the UID (Unique ID) of the RX in the radio to ensure it only sends signals to this RX. Also known as model match.

I When you reverse a channel, up might become down or vise versa, on Spektrums, if you reverse the throttle, it can switch on to WOT which isn't good.

Although you could use a 5000mah battery, the major problem here would be the size of the battery, you probably wouldn't be able to fit it into the plane and the extra weight would upset it's dynamics.

Currently, the largest lipos you can safely use are about 2100mah, anything larger doesn't fit well and weighs too much.
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