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Ultrafly P40 Build

Old 01-28-2007, 04:22 AM
  #51  
alienx
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Well, not much to see, but I got the wing on. I always hate having to try to true-up the wing and tail on a build. I am happy to say though that this kit seems to do most of the work for you. I test fit the wing with no hardware, and it was centered to the end of the fuse already. So when it came time to put that spiked plastic piece on, I just mated it to the female piece and slid the wing into the spikes. No trouble. the wing is actually slotted to fit over the fuse in the saddle. It is a nice snug fit and helps keep it all lined up properly.

The other thing I worry about, because you do it all in disjointed steps, is lining up the wing hold-down hole with the hold-down nut. This one was perfect after gluing in the pieces. It seems like such an imperfect science that it is a wonder any of it actually lines up. Maybe a little credit goes to Ultrafly.

I will say this to anyone building behind me. The hold-down nut is supported by a very thin area of foam. Be very gentle with the bolt tightening. I may try to paint the area with some CA or watered down epoxy to try to make it a little more rigid, or to spread the force over a larger area.

Lastly for tonight, I test fit the tail as well. It seems just as straight and snug as the wing/fuse joint. The parts are interlocking, so the joints are pretty nice and simple.

Here's a couple shots for posterity. Not much to see, but it looks like more than a bare fuselage now.

One other thing. You can't tell from any of the pics I've taken, but the bottom of the wing and horizontal are peppered with nubs and mold marks. I never noticed them on my E-flite P47, btu after I got this kit I looked. They are there as well and never bothered me. Maybe they weren't as bad though. But this kit really seems to make them stand out. So I am going to do as little sanding as I can to take the nubs down, fill the mold holes, and since I am using the spackle, I will also fill the spar channel. I think it will look nice when it's done, but it will take an extra day to do all that and repaint as much as I need too. I guess I can work on the ailerons and other control surfaces at that time.

That's it for today.
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Old 01-29-2007, 12:21 AM
  #52  
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I got some more work done today. It was a nice day so I should have gone flying, but with all the cold lately, I took some planes into the hangar for repairs. I guess I got caught off-gaurd.

I sanded the wing and horizontal and cut the ailerons out. I also filled all the mold marks and am going to let the spackle dry overnight before I sand it. I also got the cowl on, but I popped one of the screw tabs and had to reglue it tonight. The front of the plane is done once that glue dries.

I spent the day trying to color match the two plane colors so I could touch-up all the control surfaces and the cut-out spots. I also wanted to paint over all the little white spots I left where I sanded the nubs. The green is easier so far. You can't tell from the pics because the flash reflects the different surfaces differently, but the paint looks good to the naked eye. Certainly better than that giant hole/dent in the tail did!

I missed a little on the underside. The color has some blue in it and I came up a little light. Fortunately, I only touched up the nubs on the ailerons, so I can hit them again when I sand the wing and horizontal. I think I just need a little darker shade next time. The paint dries differently than it looks when wet. Either way, the surfaces look better to me smooth with two shades than they did when they had all the bumps and holes.

Not much else to do today. I still have a lot of small plastic to cut out, so that can take a little while. I'm anxious to see what the belly looks like with the linkage on. I just tore the aileron off my GWS Corsair when I flew it with a modded two-servo set-up in the wings. Lesson learned I hope!

I did mod the servo holes a little. The HS-55s that I am going to use were sticking up about 3/32". It wouldn't be a problem per se, but I wanted to have the bottom of the wing as smooth as possible with as little linkage sticking up as can be. So I nibbled out the holes a little and set the servos flush to the bottom of the wing. I will hot glue them when the time comes.

The only other thing that I swapped out were the hinges. Somebody else commented about them someplace and I have to agree. They are like cardboard. I wasn't as much worried about the surface-only glueing, but more the stiffness of them. I folded the two I put in the rudder while I was creating the slots and one of them separated in the middle. That is, what seemed to be two layers of material parted at the bend. I don't think they are the best choice for longevity's sake. So I swapped them out with a couple Dubro CA hinges I had. I used medium CA and got some in the slots first and then soaked the hinge itself with a coule drops. It may take a while to dry, but it should be a pretty good bond.

That's it for now. We'll see how much I can get done during the week. Oh yea, I was agonizing over whether to glass the control surfaces or not. So far I haven't. They are a little flexy, but they seem to be thick enough to not twist too much. That's the ailerons anyway. I haven't cut the elevator halves yet. I was never worried about the rudder as much. So, for now, no glass. I can always glass them afterward while they are on the plane.
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Old 02-01-2007, 03:28 AM
  #53  
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Got the wing and tail sanded tonight. I also hinged the ailerons. I cut the elevator halves but I'll have to wait for another day to finish that part. I hate having to do the tail. Especially when you have to U-wire the two elevator halves.

Once the horizontal is built, I just have to finish the cockpit and then the plane all goes together. I should be able to get a lot of it done this weekend. I'm going to have to paint the sanded areas still but that's just going to take time. It's pretty simple though.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the AUW is going to be. I'm still toying with the idea of using a 1350 mah pack. I guess that depends on how heavy the plane is with the other 2100 mah pack. If I can get in around 23 oz, I will probably fly the bigger pack. If not, then I may try to fly on the smaller pack. The balancing will also play into the equation. Lots of unknowns still!
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Old 02-01-2007, 03:25 PM
  #54  
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Well, I am going to have to redo one of the ailerons. The expoxied one is not going to work out. Too much epoxy I guess. I was trying to free-up the travel this morning and one of the hinges popped. So I probably have to pull all of them and start over. Fortunately, and I'm not sure why, I CA'ed the other aileron.

I would be happy to hear any suggestions for glueing hinges in foam planes. All my attempts are hit or miss. Sometimes the expoxy works. Other times I can't get enoug in the slot and it binds between the wing and aileron. Sometimes CA seems to work but it takes forever to dry. I use medium to get it to soak into the hinge.

I've heard people use gorilla glue, but I can't see how I could possibly get an accurate job with that stuff.
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Old 02-02-2007, 02:36 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by alienx View Post
Well, I am going to have to redo one of the ailerons. The expoxied one is not going to work out. Too much epoxy I guess. I was trying to free-up the travel this morning and one of the hinges popped. So I probably have to pull all of them and start over. Fortunately, and I'm not sure why, I CA'ed the other aileron.

I would be happy to hear any suggestions for glueing hinges in foam planes. All my attempts are hit or miss. Sometimes the expoxy works. Other times I can't get enoug in the slot and it binds between the wing and aileron. Sometimes CA seems to work but it takes forever to dry. I use medium to get it to soak into the hinge.

I've heard people use gorilla glue, but I can't see how I could possibly get an accurate job with that stuff.
Ok...what i do for hinges on foam airplanes is use the paper hinges with CA glue or GWS glue....let it set(while maing sure it'll move freely), then, I use monokote style TAPE along the hinge line. This has two purposes, it seals the hinge gap, pluas makes sure the aileron(or elevator) will never come loose. Deflect the aileron away from you on the side you put the tape on. You can repeat on the other side(top and bottom).
Take a look at this pic. Its GWS P-38. If you look closely...both ailerons have the white tape on the ailerons int he hinge. Look at the diffrerence in surface texture and will see. Once painted, you can't see the tape. Its the same stuff that the unpianted white areas you see are. you can get a roll of this stuff at LHS for cheap and it works great. Also handy for covering up blemishes or other things if you dont wanna use spackel. Its very light as well.
Bot the top and bottom fo the ailerons have this tape. I can take closer pics if need be
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Old 02-02-2007, 02:47 AM
  #56  
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That sounds like a great idea! I always wondered how you could hinge-tape an aileron with a symetrical bevel. Now I know. I'm going to look into that for the GWS Spitfire I have on the floor too.

Thanks.
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Old 02-03-2007, 04:54 AM
  #57  
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Ready for airbrush.

The canopy, just like the other parts of the plane, seems to be a great fit. Everything fits in a slot or a groove or a notch or a ...

Just cut the canopy out on the flat side of the mold lines and it lays right in place on the cockpit bottom. It should glue very nicely. I'm going to spray it tomorrow. I though about brushing it but tested masking one of the windows and it worked very well with the blue masking tape and an Xacto knife. I'm sure it will look great after paint.

Then the horizontal get's glued and the plane goes together.

Incidentally,the kit comes with a ton of stickers. It even came with two colors of the canopy frame. I toyed with using them just because they came with the kit, but they are one giant (two giant actually) sheet of stickers. You have to cut out anything you want to use. For me, that is going to be a few of the larger items and that's it. It's a shame they aren't waterslide decals. They really are attractive, and there are a ton of them for use on other planes. But as raw stickers, they lose a lot of value in my mind.
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Old 02-03-2007, 04:58 AM
  #58  
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Looking good Andy! Are you airbrushing the whole plane?
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Old 02-03-2007, 05:03 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
Looking good Andy! Are you airbrushing the whole plane?
Thanks.

I wasn't going to because most of the paint is really nice. I may sand the bottom to take the shine off and then spray the whole bottom. I haven't decided yet.

The paint, like everything else on this plane, is thick and I'm sure heavy. When I was sanding the spackle on the wing, I noticed how much paint you can take off before burning through into the foam. And it also took the shine off, which looked good to me. So maybe I'll dull the whole bottom and then spray the bare spots and mist the rest. I'll have to see what kind of color match I get first, and how stubborn the spackle is to take the paint.
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Old 02-03-2007, 10:58 PM
  #60  
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The airbrush worked out really well. You get such a nice, even, flat finish with it. I was able to match the paint close enough today that I was ready to begin painting the canopy. While I was painting the canopy, I sprayed a thin coat on the tail repair. I think it looks really good. There is a very slight hint of different shades between the original paint and my batch, but you get to easily blend the two colors. The airbrush puts such a thin layer of pigment out, you can simply fade the paint into the original color. I am very happy with the results, and I didn't make much of a mess.

I'm looking forward, actually, to painting the bottom of the wing and tail now. But I still have to build the horizontal first. I'm dragging my feet because I don't want to deal with the hinges again. The wing ended up being salvageable with a little CA and activator. So the wing is done and waiting for a repaint of the spackled areas.

The only other thing I did was paint the dashboard black and then put a couple silver circles that are supposed to look like gauges. I also added a black headrest pillow behind the Alfa pilot I installed. This same pilot has crashed my last two planes, so i am a little leary but he is the only available pilot I have.

That's it for now.
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:33 PM
  #61  
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Andy, looks real nice.
Looking forward to report of successfull test flight.
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Old 02-04-2007, 09:50 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Andy, looks real nice.
Looking forward to report of successfull test flight.
Thanks! I'm happy to have any support I can get!!
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:13 PM
  #63  
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Ok, I got most of the building out of the way this morning. I think this will be my only report before the bowl.

I got the horizontal built yesterday and it worked out pretty well I think. I HATE THE TAIL! I guess that's why I would pay up for an Alfa. But at any rate, it is done.

The book is pretty unclear about a few things and the tail is one of them. They don't draw any attention to the U-wire, except where it goes. They don't tell you to put a piece of tubing over it between the elevator halves. I found a rubber piece in the parts bag that seemed to be made for this. But I couldn't even get it past the tip of the wire, even after greasing the wire. So I backed it off and tried a piece of Great Planes shrink tubing. I picked a small piece that was just a little bigger than the wire. I didn't want to have to deal with shrinking it and trying to figure the correct size. But then I took a look forward at the vertical stab mount and saw that there was barely room for the wire itself. So I left the tube off and just put the wire in alone. Mine is going to float against the tip of the tail. Hopefully this works.

I painted the wing bottom and the bottom of the horizontal this morning. It took about 14 tries to match the color. In the end, I got it pretty darn close. There is a pic of the bottom of the plane in here someplace. Take a look at the fuse in front of the wing LE. That was white foam that the factory painted. I think the color I came up with was pretty close!

I put up before and after shots of the wing and horizontal. The wing only had one coat in the pic so you can see all my bodywork pretty easily. But in the rest of the mounted pics, it had two coats. It covered and evened out most of the work well. Certainly well enough for my taste. I think it looks night and day better than it did when it had all the texture and mold marks and bare wing spar.

As I was gluing the tail, I was reminded of how well everything on this kit fits. The tail is virtually perfect from the factory. Just snug the pieces up with some glue and you are good to go. This was great ...no shimming or sanding or whatever. I tried to sand at least a little bare foam into all the glue joints but I didn't want to screw with the alignment so I went easy here.

The vertical stab isn't permanent yet because I want to add a third hinge to the bottom where it meets the tail. This should be a pretty bomber set-up. I think the book only shows the two hinges in the top half. Incidentally, you can see a shot of the notch in the vertical where is sits over the horizontal. I had to sand the notch a little wider to get it to sit down over the joiner wire in the horizontal. Having done that, I realized I could have fit the joiner wire tube in there anyway, but it was too hard to visualize yesterday after working on it all day. I think it will be fine though.

I think that's about it. As soon as I get the third hinge in the tail, I can glue that up and that should be the hard parts of the build. Then I have to change gears and figure out all the other riddles that come with putting in the electronics and getting it to balance.

Oh, one other thing I will mention. The cockpit, in spite of its slotted-fit design, is the only piece so far that is giving me trouble. It will not sit down at the back. It was like this before I put all the cockpit pieces together, but I never bothered to worry about it. So i sanded a bunch of different places last night trying to get it to sit down, but I couldn't tell where it was binding and put it aside before I ruined something. I'll have to deal with this sooner or later, but maybe someone else has already figured this problem out and can tell me the short answer!

Here's some pics in no particular order.

Andy
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:38 PM
  #64  
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Can't wait to see her finished. What color are you using for the green?
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Old 02-04-2007, 10:58 PM
  #65  
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Tom,

I don't have any real great advice here. I think you can use whatever you want and just keep mixing until you get the shade and hue both correct. It took a bunch of trial and error. And I painted my trials on the foam inside the cowl area to let it dry and see what color it ended up being. There is some green in the cowl area to compare to.

The thing I found is that the paint really has some brown undertones. I am missing just a hint of that in my tail picture. But close enough for me.

Have you started building yet?

I think I am about done with foam for a while. I want to dig my 3/4 completed Lancair back out and figure out how to do the motor mount. I took the stock gearbox out already. So now I have to figure how to put a firewall and brushless in it.


PS. I attached a pic of my underside progression of paints. The arrow to the right is the first try. The other arrow is the final color.


Anyone have any creative suggestions for mounting the horns?? I'll never understand how you are supposed to mount parallel plate horns on a wedge like the aileron.
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Old 02-04-2007, 11:22 PM
  #66  
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Hi Andy,

I haven't started building yet. I doubt I'll get to it for a couple of months. I'm finishing up my P-51 and then I'll probably start on my Pitts Bipe. I thought maybe you found a green somewhere that worked good. I won't have to worry about matching since I ordered the unpainted white version. I still haven't decided what paint scheme I'm going to use, but I do like the solid green with the gray bottom. Who knows, I'll probably have changed my mind 5 times by the time I start it. It will be nice to have this thread when I do start so I can see how you did it.

Thanks,

Tom
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Old 02-05-2007, 07:04 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by alienx View Post

Anyone have any creative suggestions for mounting the horns?? I'll never understand how you are supposed to mount parallel plate horns on a wedge like the aileron.
The control horns go on without any issue. Simply place the top side part with the horn in position and use a hand-drill or drill bit to simply push through the aileron where the little holes are in the plate. The screws will line up pretty well to the underside backing plate...tighten one down till tis got a decent bite on the backplate then get the others to get some bite as well. Then tighten them all down in incrememts until all are tightened to where you want them. There will be quite a lot fo screw shaft sticking out the backplate once done...so use a dremel to cute most of that off once installed.
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Old 02-06-2007, 03:15 AM
  #68  
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Gonna try the stock horns. Thanks.

I finished up the tail after the game last night. I put the third hinge in the bottom of the rudder like I wanted. Everything looks good.

All I have to do now is some of the tedious stuff like the horns and linkage. I keep overthinking things. I really should just anchor the tail tubes and put the horns on and the linkages in. I guess I need to work at the planes pace though.

I am very happy to say that the plane is on pace for a record low weight. I weighed all the remaining parts and came in around 22 oz with the heavier 2200 mah pack. If I'm not overlooking anything, that is great news. For one thing, it will be 3 oz lighter than my P47, which flies very nicely with the same power system. Also, If I can ge it to balance, I can fly it at the upper 19 oz area by using the smaller battery. Should be a nice flyer with around 180 watts of power. Ah but I'm getting ahead of myself ...
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:39 PM
  #69  
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My problem has been getting it to balance at 40mm. Mine is pretty tail heavy and Im using a heavier motor(E-flite Park 480 @ 250 watts), plus dubro 3-blade spinner and MAS 9x7x3. Still tail heavy even with the CC25 esc all the up front on the cowl area. This is with a 2100 3s TP pro-lite batt. I cannot use a smaller battery as the motor will draw too much amps(20amp cont). A 1320 is 17amp cont, so thats cant be used in my case.

So, I will have to hog out some foam inside the front area of the cockpit section to get the battery pack to slide forward.
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Old 02-06-2007, 07:43 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by kahloq View Post
My problem has been getting it to balance at 40mm. Mine is pretty tail heavy and Im using a heavier motor(E-flite Park 480 @ 250 watts), plus dubro 3-blade spinner and MAS 9x7x3. Still tail heavy even with the CC25 esc all the up front on the cowl area. This is with a 2100 3s TP pro-lite batt. I cannot use a smaller battery as the motor will draw too much amps(20amp cont). A 1320 is 17amp cont, so thats cant be used in my case.

So, I will have to hog out some foam inside the front area of the cockpit section to get the battery pack to slide forward.
I'm going to be in the same position. My motor is lighter. I meant to take a picture of the fuse halves before I glued them too, but forgot. But there should be plenty of room if you used the firewall. Maybe even if you used the stick. I'll have to take a look back to the beginning of this thread. I put a shot of the parts up. Maybe I had one of the fuse halves turned white side up ...but I don't think so.
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Old 02-07-2007, 03:11 AM
  #71  
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Default Need some opinions!

I got the tail linkage tubes glued in front and installed the horns. The tail is really done now. I am going to have to cut-off wheel the screws, and I am going to paint the horns, but other than that, it's done.

I could have finsihed this thing tonight if I didn't have an issue to deal with. I'm not sure what to do with the aileron set-up now. Ever since I tore the aileron out of my GWS Corsair, I've been very conscious of dragging a horn or servo arm on a belly landing.

I guess I have two options (aside from ignoring the potential problem!). I could put some kind of "protector over the linkage. I have some fairings off my crashed Alfa P47. But I think that will be too much to look right considering the landing gear pods are right next door. My other thought was to bottom-mount the servos, but try to put a long enough arm on to top-mount the horns. But I've never liked this look very much. So I am at a stand still for now.

Any ideas???

I put up a pic, as best I could, of the underside of the wing while the plane is resting on a block representing the back of the gear pod. The pod is the first point of contact (besides maybe the linkage) once the plane rocks to the side. You can't see the back of the wing, but there is about a small finger's gap between the trailing edge and the floor.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do, but landing gear is not an option.

Incidentally, the reason I was so slow to put the horns in is that I tore some out of my E-flite P47 (and others came loose). So I was trying to decide how I might want to firm-up the mount area. They seem to be pretty solid though. I may paint the area with a little epoxy and see if that helps at all.
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Old 02-07-2007, 05:02 AM
  #72  
kahloq
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I painted the control horns before I put them on the plane
As far as the servo arms.....I think you'd be just fine if you use these:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/servomount.htm#airscoop
Scroll to bottom area of page and there's a few option. One of them is pictured in my attachment and I uswe these both for air intake scoops and servo arm covers.
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Old 02-07-2007, 05:20 AM
  #73  
kahloq
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BTW, heres a pic of the monokote like tape in use as hinge gap filler. It also adds strength so the control surface cannot come out as can happen sometimes with just the paper hinges.
The first picture is wing on GWS ME-262 after having the tape used and then painted. Can you see the tape?
The 2nd pic is the bottom of the P-40 wing prior to painting. Note the deflection angle its at when putting the tape on. Flip over the wing and do the same(of course, this requires you to paint the plane.....but....Model Masters Dark Green is pretty close to the green the plane came as and you can meld the color in easily
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Old 02-09-2007, 03:15 AM
  #74  
alienx
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A little more progress tonight.

I painted all the horns last night. Today, I finished up the tail linkage and locked it all down. No surprises. I used the E-flite P47 rods like I thought I would.

When I got to the aileron linkages, I figured I would use the stock ones because they are so short. Even if they were heavy, there isn't much being used, like Kahlog said. But the run between the horn and the servo arm is so short that I couldn't fit the plastic rod ends between the holes, even if I butted them together. So I used the E-flites here too. Even as such, I almost didn't have enough length to put a Z-bend in. Take a look at the pics and you'll see how short the final rod is.

I have to glue the servos in and add some covers for the linkage. I painted them last night too. They came off my Alfa P47.

So a little more tedious work on the servo's and landing gear pods, and I am ready to put in the electronics and balance her.
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Old 02-09-2007, 06:34 AM
  #75  
K CLOSE
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On the hinge topic, heres two tips I've gotten which have worked well for me. On CA'd hinges (like GWS kits have) a bit of kids crayon in the closest color to the model drawn in the center/middle of the hinge. Does two things- marks where to "split the diffrence" and keeps the CA away from the flex point. Done this way it's easy to have a free moving close 'n tight gap--paint and touch up free if your so inclined. The other is Dubro micro hinges have small holes (for glue I would imagine) molded in them. Two tooth picks pushed through the foam on both sides ( picture + ) and then glued locks them in place really well for fast ones. Also requires little or no touch up.
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