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Flying the Super Cub

Old 08-16-2008, 01:56 AM
  #1  
jksecunda
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Default Flying the Super Cub

I went out tonight to fly my beginner plane. The winds were gusting slightly, and it was hard to get in the air. I got in flying a couple of times, but landing was not as comfortable as it could have been. It landed on the prop a few times, and looking at the front on the plane it looks like the motor is bent. I took off the cover over the motor and it did not look like anything was wrong. The shaft was bent slightly. I guess I need a new one. When it took off, it went up off to the left a couple of times. But eventually I got it in the air. The sun caused a few problems with waching it. My guess is, you need a very calm night to fly this plane, seeing it is so light.
Anyway, I will try agian tomorrow.

Jeff
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:17 AM
  #2  
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Sorry to hear that friend. The Super Cub is best in 0-5mph winds until you get used to her. If the prop shaft is bent, then yes you will need a new one.

Where I live, the best time to fly in minimal winds are in the mornings. Two things as far as orientation...try not to fly in front or into the sun. It will take time for your eyes to readjust and by then you can easily loose orientation of your plane. Also, try to always keep the plane in front of you. Don't try to fly her over your head and behind you. Never be the center for your circuits (flyin in circles).

When landing, remember that she can fly really slow, so don't be afraid to throttle down. She has great "dead sticking" (no throttle/power to the motor) characteristics. She glides very well and she can be landed with no power. Just remember to slow her down when making your final approach and don't come in too high. When she's about to touch down, give her small inputs of up elevator to keep her level.

The SC will always want to steer left on takeoff. That's the torque of the motor causing that and it's perfectly normal for this plane. I hope this helps. Good luck friend.
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Old 08-16-2008, 03:09 AM
  #3  
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Actually throttling down doesnt slow the plane except for it's groundspeed, airspeed will remain constant at any throttle setting. Throttle is your climb and descent control, and contrary to comon sense if you want to come down slower, increase throttle. To come down faster, decrease throttle. It's airspeed wont change, only the climb or descent rate.
The airspeed is controlled with the elevator, up elevator decreases speed, down elevator increases speed. This why I preach not to try to get the airplane down by pushing down elevator, or trying to climb by giving up elevator. It just doesnt work.

When you are on final, just reduce throttle till it's coming down at a rate that looks right, and if it gets to descending too fast, increase it a notch. If not fast enough, decrease a notch.

And then when it's about a foot off the ground give it a tad more throttle to slow the descent even more to nearly flying level, and gently apply up elevator to slow the airspeed and "flare" for landing.
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Old 08-16-2008, 05:46 AM
  #4  
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Jeff,

If the shaft is bent, you will need a new one. However, the Super Cub engine is offset. It is a powerful engine for a light plane, so the design has it offset to handle the torque of the engine. You should be able to see if there is something loose, but no worries if it looks a LITTLE off center.
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Old 08-16-2008, 11:34 AM
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jksecunda
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Thanks for all your help. I will get a new shaft and try again today. This seems to be a "If at first you don't succeed" hobby. It seems I can't get out there enough.
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Old 08-16-2008, 12:38 PM
  #6  
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I'm impressed Angler-hi....you seem quite knowledgable on the Super Cub,(I have 3 and love em).....
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Old 08-16-2008, 06:17 PM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by Sabrehawk View Post
Actually throttling down doesnt slow the plane except for it's groundspeed, airspeed will remain constant at any throttle setting.
I don't understand this When you increase throttle rpms of the motor increase and speed increases (both air and ground). When you lower throttle rpms decrease and speed decreases (both air and ground) If it is a flat calm day air speed and ground speed are equal. Increasing throttle increases speed. Air speed does not remain constant.
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Old 08-16-2008, 07:31 PM
  #8  
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Hi Daryl, yes I know and I said that it seems to be contrary to common sense. But thats the truth of flying, that it does not make sense to our ground bred senses. We must think with "Air Sense" rather than ground sense.

But believe me, it is so. And it is one of the most misunderstood things about the air, and its mostly misunderstood of R/C flying because we dont have the proper training usually. And because we dont have the advantage of instruments to tell us the story. If you did have say, an airspeed indicator you could watch what happens when you close the throttle, and leaving the elevator alone you would observe that the plane at first the airspeed will slow a tad, but then as the plane begins to descend it settles back to what it was in level flight with the throttle open to about half.
Same is true when you give it full throttle, the airspeed gains a tad for a few momments then begins to climb and then the airspeed will again settle back to it's original speed in level flight.

The airplane wants to always fly at a certain airspeed, and that airspeed is maintained by the horizontal stabilizer/elevator.
Yes, one can trim his airspeed lower or higher by trimming the elevator up or down, and along with that an increase or decrease of throttle is required to hold altitude. So in a sense the throttle can change airspeed, but not without trimming the elevator to allow the airspeed to change.
And he controls his altitude, climb and descent rate with his throttle.
Once this is fully understood you will see your flying get better, your landings smooth and gentle, and crashes nearly non existent.
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Old 08-16-2008, 08:10 PM
  #9  
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Sabrehawk's right on target - ATTITUDE (elevator) is the primary control of airspeed; not THROTTLE! However, if level flight is to be maintained, appropriate changes in power must be made whenever the pitch attitude is made to prevent gaining or loosing altitude.

For example, at a constant power setting, if the Angle of Attack is increased (up elevator), lift decreases and the drag increases. Therefore, when a pilot wants to slow the aircraft, the nose of the aircraft must be slowly raised into a greater "nose up" attitude, causing drag to increase, thus slowing the aircraft. This increase of angle of attack has limits - the wing has a "Critical Angle Of Attack" at which point the wing ceases to create sufficient lift to fly, and the wing STALLS. The air flowing over the wing becomes so disturbed that adequate lift to sustain flight ceases, and the aircraft pitches "nose down". This is a STALL.

The primary way to recover from a stall is to push the nose further downward, thus decreasing the Angle Of Attack so that the wing flies again.

When the pilot pushes the nose down by use of down elevator, the Angle of Attack decreases, thus decreasing the drag. Therefore, when power is held constant, the angle of attack (nose high, level, or nose low) provides "Airspeed Control".
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Old 08-16-2008, 08:40 PM
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Thanks Dk, always good to have backup.

These truths for me became reality several years ago when I started flying flightsims. One day after reading my favorite flying book, "Stick and Rudder" I decided to test something out, and it was this "speed keeeping tendency" of the airplane that Wolfgang talks about.
So I got my favorite aircraft up at about 2000ft, got it level and hit the auotpilot and let it trim the plane out for 2000ft, then turned it off.
And then without touching anything else, closed the throttle and watched the airspeed indicator, then the same thing with opening to full throttle, and then at all other positions and I was so amazed to actually see what Wolfgang says come true. No matter what I did with the throttle, the plane still flew at 120nts. It descended, climbed, or held altitude at exactly 120nts.

This was like turning night into day for me, and my flying after that day improved a thousand fold it seemed. Was like being reborn if you will.
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Old 08-16-2008, 09:25 PM
  #11  
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First, to our new pilot, welcome ot RC Flying. I think you want to read this thread which is one of the sticky threads in this forum. It is there because all beginners should read it.

Six keys to success for new pilots
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18


Now, as to the elevator and throttle. Sorry guys but this is a very subtle discussion that is not going to make sense to a new RC pilot.

A pilot in a 45 degree dive who subscribes to this concept would be led to believe that applying up elevator would slow the plane but would not pull out of the dive. He would believe that he would have to apply more and more power as he flew head long into the ground. I don't like that.

If I hold altitude constant and increase throttle, the plane will gain air speed and likely ground speed as well. I don't need your agreement as I prove it every time I fly a powered plane. Note that I normally fly gliders, but I have more than enough time on electrics to know of what I speak.

Now, in many cases to do this I need down elevator to hold constant altitude and you will say that the elevator is controlling the speed. OK I can accept that.

Now having said that, it is true that full scale pilots often use the throttle to control altitude and elevator to control speed. But that is a matter of how you use them. These represent best practice for straight and level flight and not an absolute statements of their function.

If I have enough speed and enough thrust from the engine/prop I can climb on elevator input. Otherwise I would not be able to perform a loop.

If I hold elevator neutral and apply throttle, air speed and air flow over the wings will increase. This increases lift on the wings. If you hold elevator neutral, the plane will typically tend to climb.

Likewise if I decrease throttle sufficently altitude will decrease due to the decrease lift over the wings. However I can apply down elevator and decrease altitude as well, otherwise I could not do an outside loop.

If you hold throttle constant and apply up elevator, you will decrease air speed as the plane trys to climb under constant power. Or it will increase in speed as you desend at constant throttle. Elevator controls attitude of the wing, not altitude of the plane, thus controlling the lift character of the wing. But the net effect is the same, up to the point where you stall the wing.

However to say that air speed remains constant regardless of throttle setting makes many assumptions that are not apparent to a new pilot and in many cases is simply not true when flying an RC aircraft.

I have seen too many level approaches to the field where the power was poured on and the plane gained speed, both air speed and ground speed, without gaining altitude.

I certainly would not expect a new RC pilot to operate his plane under that assumption.

Last edited by AEAJR; 08-16-2008 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 08-16-2008, 10:45 PM
  #12  
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Wow. I'm no expert, but when I decrease throttle for my final approach, my plane SLOWS down. Sometimes I'll even kill the throttle all together right before I bank her left or right to come in and land. She definitely slows down then. I use throttle if she looks like she's going to fall short of where I'm trying to land her. Other than that, I bring her in with no power and let her descend on her own...I give her up elevator as needed to keep her level for touchdown.
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Old 08-17-2008, 02:33 AM
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Ed, I have no doubt that what you wrote works for people that understand the fundamentals of flying, like you do. But Angler-Hi makes sense to me (in laymans terms)that I'm going to use in my future flights, till I have a better understanding of flying.

Thanks for all of your input.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:22 AM
  #14  
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Well, as much as I respect Ed's contrbutions here and elsewhere I have to disagree at least 80% with what he said in this thread. Sorry Ed, but it just isnt so.

Full scale pilots dont just use throttle to control climbs, descents, and altitude "often". They do it this way 100% because it is correct.
And I have proven it to myself in simulation and has been proven to me real aircraft, not just a model.
It is fact, not just a belief or a theory.

Models being flown from the ground can fool our eyes and senses, but when in the plane, with it's instruments in front of you, the feeling in the seat of your pants there can be no fooling, no theory, no doubt.

Ok, thats all im gonna say on it. If you dont believe any of it, im fine with that, at least I tried. You can look it up if yu'uns dont believe it, but look it up in real aviation writings, not R/C. Too many misunderstandings, and misinformation in R/C.
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jksecunda View Post
Ed, I have no doubt that what you wrote works for people that understand the fundamentals of flying, like you do. But Angler-Hi makes sense to me (in laymans terms)that I'm going to use in my future flights, till I have a better understanding of flying.

Thanks for all of your input.
Angler-hi makes sense to me too. I agree with him.


Sabrehawk,

I have very little experience with full size aircraft, so I will have to take your word for what you say. But as I fly my RC models I have to use a different reference point which therefore changes my preception of what is happening. It is that reference point, me on the ground, the plane in the air, that dictates how I interpert things and how I respond.

Let's agree to disagree and move on to try and help this new pilot.

Last edited by AEAJR; 08-17-2008 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 08-17-2008, 06:31 AM
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I don't mean to be dense, but

If a 10 x 6 prop moves forward 6 inches per revolution, at 5000 rpms it will move forward at 28 miles per hr. The same prop at 10,000 rpms will move forward at 57 miles per hr.

I just don't understand how the air speed does not change
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Old 08-17-2008, 12:47 PM
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jksecunda
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
Let's agree to disagree and move on to try and help this new pilot.
Thanks again guys. I DO appreciate al you have to say. I AM new and don't know squat about what I'm doing, but learning is not beyond my realm of capability.
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Old 08-17-2008, 12:57 PM
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5 mph with the SuperCub is about all ya get...but what a fun 5mph!
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Zoo View Post
5 mph with the SuperCub is about all ya get...but what a fun 5mph!
What does this mean? The cub probably hits 30+ mph at full throttle, or so it seems to me.
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:36 PM
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Sorry I was unclear....what I meant to say is 5mph is about the top wind speed to fly her best in.....Naturally the less wind,(particularly on the SC),is better. I have no clue as to how fast she is.Cant be very.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Originally Posted by AEAJR View Post
What does this mean? The cub probably hits 30+ mph at full throttle, or so it seems to me.
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:50 PM
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When learning to fly model airplances, the tendancy to "go for it", even though you know the conditions are not good, is common and usually followed by a trip to the local hobby shop to buy parts or a new plane.

Come up with a minimum set of criteria of field size and wind conditions and stick to it. No shame in going to a field, NOT FLYING and coming back the next day.


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Old 08-17-2008, 04:44 PM
  #22  
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Been there...done that...& I agree 100%
Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
When learning to fly model airplances, the tendancy to "go for it", even though you know the conditions are not good, is common and usually followed by a trip to the local hobby shop to buy parts or a new plane.

Come up with a minimum set of criteria of field size and wind conditions and stick to it. No shame in going to a field, NOT FLYING and coming back the next day.


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Old 08-17-2008, 04:52 PM
  #23  
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That's what I do. If the conditions are not to my satisfaction, I will pack up and head to the house. I would rather go home with all my planes in tact rather than have a day or two of repairs ahead of me.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:12 PM
  #24  
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Me too Angler-Hi.....Here's a pic of my Camera Cubs fuselage.Video & still. It's x-port enabled. Haven't taken the first flight as of yet for the same reason as Angler-Hi mentioned. I got to the site...was WAY too windy & came home. A drag for sure but my planes are still ready to go needing no repairs from the "Go for it" attitude.
Tommorow.....I hope...
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Originally Posted by Angler-Hi View Post
That's what I do. If the conditions are not to my satisfaction, I will pack up and head to the house. I would rather go home with all my planes in tact rather than have a day or two of repairs ahead of me.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Angler-Hi View Post
That's what I do. If the conditions are not to my satisfaction, I will pack up and head to the house. I would rather go home with all my planes in tact rather than have a day or two of repairs ahead of me.
That is very good advice. I did go out this morning at 7am. No wind. Perfect weather. My only problem is knowing what to do when the plane is in the air. I KNOW that when you first get it up, it needs to be trimmed so it goes straight before anymore flying is done. Is that right? As soon as I get it up, I get anxious and forget that part, flying around willy nilly then running into a tree or a not so perfect landing. I was up again today, ran into a tree branch, fell to the ground, and that was the end of a 2 minute flight. Then it was back to the house to repair whatever it was that needed repaired. I am getting a little frustrated, but not ready to give up yet. I will try again tonite if there is no wind.
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