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Build Thread- WACO SRE From Manzano

Old 01-04-2009, 05:44 AM
  #76  
buzzltyr
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Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Hello Mark,
Thanks for the info, I'm interested in the top wing reinforcement. There haven't been any problems I've heard of but it did seem like a likely place for a bit of strengthening. I've never fully trusted a flush or butt joint for wings. The top wing does have a spruce spar that carries through and is glued to a dihedral brace that's fixed into the fuselage top.
Do you happen to know whether your friend used the enlarged ailerons?
The top center is open, except for the dihedral brace/spar and seems like it would work as a hatch. I had already planned to put mine behind the rear landing gear mount.
But also, as Matt mentioned, I'm reluctant to add weight above the centerline. It may not be a proven aerodynamic fact, but my observation has been that it reduces stability somewhat. Particularly a large mass like a battery pack.
The adverse yaw could also be because the model has very little dihedral (top wing only) and a relatively short wingspan.
Thanks for the interest, hope you enjoy the build thread!
Ron
Ron, I don't think he used the enlarged ailerons, but I'm not sure. I'm attaching a pic of his completed model. I never really studied the plans, so I'm not sure on the ailerons. I do know he was very unhappy with the way the upper wing mounted, and did reinforce that area. Even though the hatch is on the top, the battery is still fairly low in the fuselage. I think he was also concerned about getting the battery far enough forward to set the CG properly. On the adverse yaw, my recollection is that both wings are essentially flat bottomed. Which, as I understand it, can often lead to adverse yaw, which is easily corrected with aileron differntial.

Having talked to my flying buddy frequently while he was building his, I am indeed enjoying "reliving" his build with yours!

Mark
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:09 PM
  #77  
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Default Nice Waco!

Hi Mark, Thanks for the photo, that's a good-looking model!
Apparently he did use the enlarged ailerons, they are three rib bays long, with three bays left in the center. The stock ailerons (also scale) are two rib bays long, with 4 bays in the center.
You're right about the differential, and the wing airfoil is flat bottom. I plan to use 2:1 differential for that reason.
Hope mine comes out that well!
Ron
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:12 PM
  #78  
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Default Rear Landing Gear Mount

This is what I came up with for the rear leading gear wire mount. Since there's no bulkheads here, no vertical support, I'm trying to distribute the loads over a wider area of the sides.
After dry-fitting the pieces, I realized it could have been one long continuous piece supporting both the front-and rear wire mounts. If I had thought it out better, instead of adding it "on the run". Oh, well, maybe a lesson for next time!
Everything shown is a dry fit, no glue yet.
Ron
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Old 01-05-2009, 01:06 AM
  #79  
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Default Rear L.G. Mount Finished

Here's the finish if the rear mount. I glued in the reinforcements this AM and later added the ply piece.
Ron
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:51 AM
  #80  
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Default Complete Framework

Here's the (nearly) complete framework. I attached the landing gear to the mounts, everything else is taped together.
Next I'll start covering the flying surfaces, the fuselage will have to wait until I get a motor. But at least I've got the main parts done!
Ron
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:18 PM
  #81  
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Ron, the weather here cooperated a bit (although it was still cold), so I met up with my flying buddy, who brought his Waco. The aileron differential helped to flatten out the turns. He also moved the battery forward a bit, and he thinks the foreward CG may also have helped. When he moved the battery back for a second flight, the model once again would go nose up in a turn. I should also note that he has about 20% rudder --> aileron mixing in his transmitter. In any event, he had three very nice, scale flights with his Waco this morning. It really is a very pretty plane in the air.

Mark
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Old 01-06-2009, 10:14 PM
  #82  
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Default Clamps!!

Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Here's the finish if the rear mount. I glued in the reinforcements this AM and later added the ply piece.
Ron
Mr. Ron!
Who is the best supplier of those little clamps?

Thanks!!!!
Jimmy
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Old 01-07-2009, 01:47 AM
  #83  
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Default Waco Flying, Clamps

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the info, I've heard the C.G. needs to be slightly forward for best flying. The differential should help the turns and I'll try some coupling (mixing) also. I'm really looking forward to getting this project in the air, that is if the weather ever breaks!
Hi Jimmy,
I'm not too proud to say the small clamps came from the dollar store! You can get better quality ones here;
http://www.hobbylinc.com/prods/raa.htm But those little ones were perfect for this job. I also buy "Drafting Sets" for $1.00, a couple of small triangles and cheap rulers, almost disposable.
I've also seen the clamps at "Home Builders" for a bit more.
Ron
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:48 PM
  #84  
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Default Wing Attachment Reinforcement

Here's a couple more modifications I'm making to the wing attachment.
Since I plan to use a slightly more powerful motor on this model, I thought the wing mounting could use a bit of strengthening. The plans show the lower wing glued flush to the fuse sides with two small stub dowels between the sides and root rib. Since this wing has no dihedral, it made sense to me to make these dowels run completely through the fuselage, and I also extended them one rib bay. See photo.
On the top wing, the same stub dowels are used, plus the spruce spar that attaches to the dihedral brace. I'm going to sheet the cabin top, so I'll add the shorter false ribs shown, both to provide a platform for the sheeting and to add thickness for the stubs to engage. Both wings will be non-removeable.
Ron
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:07 PM
  #85  
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Default Joinery!!

WoW!
Great seams!!
Can't wait to see it finished. Went up in one of these as a kid, I will never forget the beautiful cockpit!

Jimmy
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:17 PM
  #86  
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Indeed, we're watching a master craftsman at work here. I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the shop for a few months, to soak it all in up close. And I envy that childhood flight of yours! There's a guy up a Boeing Field, right next to the Museum of Flight, who offers bipe rides. Next time I'm up there, I'm going to have to spring for one. -Matt

Originally Posted by riverrat View Post
WoW!
Great seams!!
Can't wait to see it finished. Went up in one of these as a kid, I will never forget the beautiful cockpit!
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Old 01-09-2009, 01:13 PM
  #87  
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Default Joining Fin And Stabilizer

Thanks Jimmy + Matt! I don't know about the "Craftsman", just been doing this for so long I've eliminated most (but not all) of the common mistakes.
Anyway, here's the fin-stabilizer joint. As I've mentioned before, shear or "butt" joints aren't my favorite, they depend on a small flat surface area for strength and are a likely suspect for failure.
So I try to either add longer components (like the full-length dowels on the lower wing) or increase the surface (contact or gluing) area somehow.
Triangle stock is good for this particular application, but doesn't come in small sizes. So I make my own.
The photos are step-by-step, I'm using 1/8" square balsa and a 1/4" diameter tube as a sanding tool. At the end I put masking tape alongside the triangle stock so as to not cut into the tail suurfaces.
Ron
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:59 PM
  #88  
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Default Fuselage Bottom, Front

The bottom nose piece has a much longer taper than the side pieces (See plan photo). Instead of foam or balsa block, I decided to use thin balsa.
I began the sheeting of the nose bottom last night by soaking and forming a piece of 1/16" balsa to the shape. This morning it's dry and here's the piece after trimming. The sheet wasn't quite wide enough to reach the sides, I'll add a small filler piece to each side later.
I created the arc-shaped bottom former next to the rear L.G. mount to maintain a slight curve. Behind this will be a similar-shaped former that will be the front of the hatch. At the rear of the hatch the sheet will flatten out to match the fuse rear bottom shape.
Not glued yet, the photos are a dry fit.
Ron
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:50 PM
  #89  
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Default Gap-Filling With Scrap Balsa

Remember those gaps caused by a too-narrow sheet of balsa? Here's the fix; Bear in mind this looks pretty ugly until it's finished. Glue blobs, extra material sticking out awkwardly, poor fit.
But the simple application of one of the greatest building tools made, the multi-task, dual-grit, semi-flexible, narrow fitting, ergonomic, shaping, sanding and finishing tool (better known as an emery board) will turn this mess into a nicely-rounded corner transition.
After the scraps were glued into place (with CA) I whittled everything down to a close shape. Then the emery board, perfect for fitting into tight corners and angles. 15 easy minutes later, one side done!
I'll dab a bit of lightweight spackle later for a better finish.
Ron
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:56 AM
  #90  
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Default Landing Gear Fairing

Here's another one of those "Looks ugly until it's finished" parts; The fairing over the main landing gear strut.
I started with a couple of 1/8" x 1/2" balsa strips, one in front, the other behind the main wire. The rear piece is cut to accomodate the rear L.G. wire. These are glued in place with CA.
Next, a piece of soft 1/16' x 1" is glued over the 1/8" pieces, both on top and behind, forming three layers with the L.G. wire in the middle.
I put masking tape around the fuse bottom and sides to protect it.
Now I carve the rough airfoil shape into the fairing.
Last, a sanding, #200 grit.
I'll be soldering a small metal bracket to the bottom of the main wire to attach the wheel pants.
Ron
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:22 PM
  #91  
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Default Hinging, Covering Tail Surfaces

Here's my method for covering and hinging control surfaces. It's a bit different, but evolved from my attempts to solve two problems; When CA is used to hinge surfaces that have already been covered, it many times will "fog" or blemish the area of covering around the hinges.
The second problem has only happened a couple of times, but once is enough! That is, having hinges pull out. My solution for this is to glue them from the inside.
So, the drill is; Cover one surface first (in this case, the top of the stabilizer and elevator), insert and glue hinges from the inside, allowing the CA to have an escape point for the heat and chemicals that could fog the covering.
Cover the bottom of both surfaces.
Yes, it's extra work and time. But I feel the results are worth it. I've never had a hinge pull out using this method, and no fogging.
I took more than 10 photos, so this will be a two-part post. First, covering the top of both horizontal tail surfaces.
Also, I'll be using Minwax Poly as the adhesive and finishing coat with the Coverlite (or Litespan, same stuff). A first for me! I tried this on a spare tail of another model and posted it on this Forum last week.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42439
Ron
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:28 PM
  #92  
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Making great progress Ron.
Now that you made me feel guilty, I'll go start covering mine.
Paul
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:38 PM
  #93  
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Default Hinging, Covering top of Horizontal Tail

Part 2. The iron is cooling, I'm going to clean it with acetone, as the Minwax "bled" out along the edges.
In the meantime, here's the hinging and covering. No shrink yet, I'm going to re-seal all the glued-down sections with a slightly hotter iron, add trim stripes, then shrink. If you check the other post (link above) you'll see I had trouble with wrinkles on the double-covered sections.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:43 PM
  #94  
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Default I'm too slow!

Hi Paul,
I guess we were posting at the same time. Thanks, I've been watching your thread, great job!
I'll never finish ahead of you, my projected date is "Spring" of '09.
LOL!
Ron
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:40 AM
  #95  
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Default Shrinking + Trim

I turned the iron up a couple of clicks, shrunk the covering as best I could. Litespan/Coverlite doesn't have the max shrink capability of the self-adhesive films, so you have to apply it as tightly as possible before shrinking.
Then I made a pattern of the leading edge shape and cut a couple of pinstripes from black LiteSpan. Brushed Minwax onto the back of the stripes, laid them in place and attached with the iron.
Once the stripes were in place I brushed a thin coat of Minwax over the entire structure. The last two photos were taken after the top coat had dried for about 1/2 hour.
Next, the fin/rudder.
Ron
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Old 01-12-2009, 02:24 PM
  #96  
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Using MinWax as you did, you might be able to cover a plane with tissue or silk with that process.
That would be different, a silk job without the fumes.

Paul
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:45 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
Using MinWax as you did, you might be able to cover a plane with tissue or silk with that process.
That would be different, a silk job without the fumes.

Paul
I swear by Minwax and Silkspan over mylar (for open bays). I did recently have a small sample bay that had been banging around in my toolbox delaminate in one area, which gives me pause. I was able to then easily pull the silkspan cleanly away from the mylar, which gives me double pause. Has anyone tried Minwax and silkspan minus the mylar over open bays? I assume not, as the sagging would be murder (with little to no shrinkage to bring it back) so I'm going to try a test on the back side of the aforementioned sample bay. If it turns out that mylar is required, I'll look into possible ways to etch it, to give it some tooth and hopefully gripping power. It may be a non issue, but an in-flight delamination on a leading edge would be terrible indeed. -Matt
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:25 AM
  #98  
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Default Multi-Purpose Minwax?

Hi Paul + Matt,
I've never tried Minwax with silkspan over an open structure, but it does have a little "Shrink" while drying. Tom (Grasshopper) sent me some sample fabric last year and I tried it on a foam GWS "Spitfire".
It went on pretty easily and I did try to get it as tight as I could. Still it wasn't anywhere near as tight (while still wet) as an ironed-on material.
But the next morning, WHOA! Tight as a drum.
Same thing over solid sheet balsa. I did the tail surfaces and nose pod of the MM QF II DLG with Minwax/fiberglass cloth and it tightened up nicely, no wrinkles and 2 coats filled the weave pretty well. The only problem I've had is some slight lifting on the corners and edges, where there's very little contact area for the adhesive to grip.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36439 (Starting post # 14)
So far, no lifting with the iron-on method and Litespan, but there's a lot more testing to do!
Thanks for the interest, at least we've got some new possibilities in covering.
Ron

Last edited by Sky Sharkster; 01-13-2009 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Add Link
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:57 AM
  #99  
Cdr. Instigator
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When I grow up, I hope to be half as good a builder as most of you here.. Ron, your build is looking great!!
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:17 PM
  #100  
Sky Sharkster
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Hello Cdr., Welcome to Wattflyer!
Thanks for the kind words, there are some real craftsmen here. Check out the build threads from PD1 and Bill G.
Ron
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