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help with my lip batteries

Old 12-28-2008, 07:14 AM
  #1  
helibeg
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Unhappy help with my lip batteries

hi there everyone, happy xmas to all, well i bought 2 electrifly lipo 3c 2200mah 11.1v battery for my Trex, a lot of people keep telling me that i dont need to put a full charge, other says i should.... at this time my lipo has like 4 days of using and sometimes last like 5 min fly, i dont know if im missing something here. I have th accu-cycle elite charge and equinox balancer.

Also a question on charge currect on my accu charger, its says 0.45 A do i have to leave it that one? or put 2.0A, min is 2200 mAh so it should be 2.2 max of charge currect. I dont know what im doing wrong cause i never get full charge or at least my heli flight never pass 4-5 min.
Battery spec
11.1V
2200 mAh
3C
Brand electrifly power series
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:19 AM
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You should be charging your batteries at the rate of 1C which for your 2200mA packs would be 2.2A.

You may want to think about a different balancer. I've seen the Equinox not perform correctly more than once. The LBA10-net+ from Hyperion is good as is the Astro Blinky.

Hope that helps.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:22 AM
  #3  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by Twmaster View Post
You should be charging your batteries at the rate of 1C which for your 2200mA packs would be 2.2A.

You may want to think about a different balancer. I've seen the Equinox not perform correctly more than once. The LBA10-net+ from Hyperion is good as is the Astro Blinky.

Hope that helps.
hi there Twmaster, thanks a lot for your fast reply and time. The max charge A is 2.0A on my charge...so i should put that one i think. If i leave it on 0.45 what is happening??. Im really new on the lipo area, this is my first Trex that my dad with all his effort gave it to me for Xmas so i want to do everything as i should.

Again thanks a lot for your time.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by helibeg View Post
hi there everyone, happy xmas to all, well i bought 2 electrifly lipo 3c 2200mah 11.1v battery for my Trex, a lot of people keep telling me that i dont need to put a full charge, other says i should.... at this time my lipo has like 4 days of using and sometimes last like 5 min fly, i dont know if im missing something here. I have th accu-cycle elite charge and equinox balancer.

Also a question on charge currect on my accu charger, its says 0.45 A do i have to leave it that one? or put 2.0A, min is 2200 mAh so it should be 2.2 max of charge currect. I dont know what im doing wrong cause i never get full charge or at least my heli flight never pass 4-5 min.
Battery spec
11.1V
2200 mAh
3C
Brand electrifly power series
You should always fully charge before you fly. If your ESC has a cutoff it's usually a percentage of your start voltage. This means if you start off with a low voltage, you can actually go below the minimum safe voltage per cell and kill your new lipo for good. Also I wonder about the 3C rating you say the battery has. That would actually mean a safe discharge rate of less than 7 amps... not enough to get a trex in the air.

As far as the charger question, you can safetly charge a 2200mAh pack at 2 amps. Safe charge rate is considered 1C or 1 times the pack amperage.
2200 mAh=2.2 Amps. Get it?

Hope this helps...

Looks like I was typing too slow for you guys! lol
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:34 AM
  #5  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by xuzme720 View Post
You should always fully charge before you fly. If your ESC has a cutoff it's usually a percentage of your start voltage. This means if you start off with a low voltage, you can actually go below the minimum safe voltage per cell and kill your new lipo for good. Also I wonder about the 3C rating you say the battery has. That would actually mean a safe discharge rate of less than 7 amps... not enough to get a trex in the air.

As far as the charger question, you can safetly charge a 2200mAh pack at 2 amps. Safe charge rate is considered 1C or 1 times the pack amperage.
2200 mAh=2.2 Amps. Get it?

Hope this helps...

Looks like I was typing too slow for you guys! lol
thanks for your comment, yeah, i mean the trex 450 fly about 3-4 min and then start to fly weird, of course i know that the battery are low... thats why i was concern about the charging process cause this lipo should last at least 8 min on hover.

I change the chargin to 2.0A, so we will see what happen.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by helibeg View Post
thanks for your comment, yeah, i mean the trex 450 fly about 3-4 min and then start to fly weird, of course i know that the battery are low... thats why i was concern about the charging process cause this lipo should last at least 8 min on hover.

I change the charging to 2.0A, so we will see what happen.
Just so you know (if you don't already), your battery should have an overall voltage (fully charged) of 12.4v to 12.6v. If it has the balance lead, it should, then you can check individual cell voltage by checking the voltage at the wires in the balance plug. If you think of the wires as numbered, 1-2-3-4, each cell has two wires on it. check voltage at 1-2 for the first cell, 2-3 for the second, 3-4 for the last. Just be sure not to short the cells while checking voltage...
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:47 AM
  #7  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by xuzme720 View Post
Just so you know (if you don't already), your battery should have an overall voltage (fully charged) of 12.4v to 12.6v. If it has the balance lead, it should, then you can check individual cell voltage by checking the voltage at the wires in the balance plug. If you think of the wires as numbered, 1-2-3-4, each cell has two wires on it. check voltage at 1-2 for the first cell, 2-3 for the second, 3-4 for the last. Just be sure not to short the cells while checking voltage...
THANKS A LOT, i hope is not to late for my new batteries!!! how will i know if the lipos are gone?
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by helibeg View Post
THANKS A LOT, i hope is not to late for my new batteries!!! how will i know if the lipos are gone?
Well, for one thing either they won't charge... or they will "puff", which is bad! You shpuldn't worry though, if you've been using the balance charger, especially at that low amperage you should be fine..
It will only take longer to charge.
Just out of curiosity, do your batt's have anything that says 15c or 20c on them? I would think that is actually what you have for a trex 450.
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Old 12-28-2008, 07:57 AM
  #9  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by xuzme720 View Post
Well, for one thing either they won't charge... or they will "puff", which is bad! You shpuldn't worry though, if you've been using the balance charger, especially at that low amperage you should be fine..
It will only take longer to charge.
Just out of curiosity, do your batt's have anything that says 15c or 20c on them? I would think that is actually what you have for a trex 450.
it says:
t-rex 11.1V lithium polymer battery
2200 mAh
25C continuous discharge
charge at 2.2 A max
GPMP0520

this is the battery
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...EARCH=gpmp0520
i just put on my charger 11.1V, 2200 mAh(as i did before) and correct from 0.45 to 2.0A charge currect.

And this is my charger
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXEYD4&P=ML

balancer
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMGS7&P=7
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:11 AM
  #10  
Chilll
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Default Thanks for your help about checking the battery

Originally Posted by xuzme720 View Post
Just so you know (if you don't already), your battery should have an overall voltage (fully charged) of 12.4v to 12.6v. If it has the balance lead, it should, then you can check individual cell voltage by checking the voltage at the wires in the balance plug. If you think of the wires as numbered, 1-2-3-4, each cell has two wires on it. check voltage at 1-2 for the first cell, 2-3 for the second, 3-4 for the last. Just be sure not to short the cells while checking voltage...
I ran my battery down today 11.1 1600mah (3 cell) and put it on charge.It took about 7 hours to fully charge.I had it on the lowest setting of 0.3a..Is this normal to take this long.I probably shouldnt have ran it down a low as I did.I should have taken a voltage reading when it was run down.My mistake.ThenI would know how low the batterys actually were..I wanted to know what should the actual voltage be in a fully charged battery and you answered it.I checked and its 12.6 green light ..Thank you
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:37 AM
  #11  
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At that low of a charge rate it could take that long. In theory if you charged at 1C it should take about an hour. You were charging at about .2C so yea, it could take that long.

BTW, what you did, charging slow, is about the best way to bring a over discharged battery back up. Glad to see it came back to full. I'd keep an eye on it though just in case it did get hurt.
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:31 AM
  #12  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by Twmaster View Post
At that low of a charge rate it could take that long. In theory if you charged at 1C it should take about an hour. You were charging at about .2C so yea, it could take that long.

BTW, what you did, charging slow, is about the best way to bring a over discharged battery back up. Glad to see it came back to full. I'd keep an eye on it though just in case it did get hurt.
hey how can i check if the lipo got killed.....is true that lips cant be drain it almost zero cause can be damange?
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:34 AM
  #13  
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There killed LONG before That! bub, steve
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:36 AM
  #14  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by stevecooper View Post
There killed LONG before That! bub, steve
maybe you can help me why happened to avoid news killed batteries.
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Old 01-05-2009, 04:00 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by helibeg View Post
maybe you can help me why happened to avoid news killed batteries.
you might have to program your esc to set the LVC(low voltage cuttoff)
the esc that I use you program by the number of cells in the battery pack.for instance if it has 2 cells you program it for 2 cells.if its 3 cells you program it for 3 cells
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:25 AM
  #16  
helibeg
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im new in terms of lipos, what do you mean with "esc". I was reading the manual of my charger, and it was discharge cuttoff but it doenst mention something aboud charging mode with a LVC.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:15 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by helibeg View Post
im new in terms of lipos, what do you mean with "esc". I was reading the manual of my charger, and it was discharge cuttoff but it doenst mention something aboud charging mode with a LVC.
ESC=Electronic Speed Control
What he refers to the "low voltage cutoff" that your speed control has, not the charger. the LVC comes into play when you are flying, not while charging. Does that help?
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:26 AM
  #18  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by xuzme720 View Post
ESC=Electronic Speed Control
What he refers to the "low voltage cutoff" that your speed control has, not the charger. the LVC comes into play when you are flying, not while charging. Does that help?
oooo i see, yes it has the align one...35A
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:31 AM
  #19  
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See if this helps. It's how to program your ESC.
Setting up the Align ESC is not overly complicated but quite confusing if you don't know what all the beeps are about.

The following is a description in words of the setup procedure, bear with me as it is quite complex to explain.

Firstly your tx must be setup such that your throttle curve is the default linear curve. ie. 0 25 50 75 100 for a radio with a five point curve. The reason for this is that the ESC uses the stick position to sense what settings you want during the programming phase.

Next step is to put your stick at full throttle and plug in the battery (yes, I was also worried).

The ESC will emit a scale (crecendo) of notes in quick succession indicating setup mode being entered.
Put the stick at low throttle and the setup sequence begins.

The ESC will now emit a single beep, repeating slowly, this indicates option 1 is being set. Put the stick in the appropriate place for the setting you want. Option 1 is the break setting, so should be turned off in a heli, so the stick should be at low throttle. The ESC will wait a preset period of time beeping once slowly and then take the option as wherever the stick currently is placed. If you are following these instructions then you won't have moved the stick from the low throttle position at the start of the setup sequence.

The ESC now emits a scale of notes in quick succession to indicate the setting has been taken and will now beep twice, slowly and repeating. You are now setting option 2, hence the two beeps slowly repeating. You are now setting the timing for the motor. Place the stick in the appropriate place for your motor. Option 1 is low timing, option 2 is mid timing and option 3 is high timing. For an Align motor mid or low timing can be used, so middle or low throttle for the stick.
After a preset period the ESC will emit a scale of notes in quick succession, indicating the option has been set.

Following this the ESC will emit three beeps, repeating slowly, you are now setting option 3 for battery protection.
Again place the stick high, middle or low. I set my battery protection to high (70%) which is the low throttle stick position. This gives you just under 9v as the point your ESC will enter battery protection mode.

After a preset period you get the scale of notes in quick succession and then the ESC plays back your settings using beep codes for option 1, 2 and 3. Listen carefully to verify they are correct.

If they are then unplug the battery, plug it back in and go fly. If they aren't correct unplug the battery, place your stick at full throttle and plug the battery back in again to re-enter setup mode.

Here are the settings from the manual:
Feature options 1. Break option: 3 settings that include no break/soft break/hard break.
2. Electronic timing option: 3 settings that includes Low timing/Mid timing/High timing
Generally, lower pole motors were recommended to use lower timing while higher poles to use higher timing. Higher timing gives more power at the expense of efficiency. Always check the current draw after changing the timing in order to prevent overloading of battery.
3. Battery protection option: 3 settings that include 70% / 65% / 60%
The default setting is 65%. This option provides the battery from over-discharge. Please pay extra attention before you change this setting. You are at your own risk of damage the electronics device by over-discharge the battery and the controller. Any damage by over current of the controller is not covered by factory warranty.
The following is the setting guideline as reference.
For a 3-Cell Li-poly system
4.2V (Single cell fully charged voltage) x 3 = 12.6V
12.6V x 65% (Factory default) = 8.19V
When the voltage of 3-cell battery drops to 8.19V, the ESC will be
enable its battery protection. Then the power will be decreased by the
ESC. The flyer should prepare for landing in time.
Note: this option is only suitable for the fully charge and good battery packs.

Note also how low the voltage is, too low for healthy lipo's!!
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:42 AM
  #20  
helibeg
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Originally Posted by xuzme720 View Post
See if this helps. It's how to program your ESC.
Setting up the Align ESC is not overly complicated but quite confusing if you don't know what all the beeps are about.

The following is a description in words of the setup procedure, bear with me as it is quite complex to explain.

Firstly your tx must be setup such that your throttle curve is the default linear curve. ie. 0 25 50 75 100 for a radio with a five point curve. The reason for this is that the ESC uses the stick position to sense what settings you want during the programming phase.

Next step is to put your stick at full throttle and plug in the battery (yes, I was also worried).

The ESC will emit a scale (crecendo) of notes in quick succession indicating setup mode being entered.
Put the stick at low throttle and the setup sequence begins.

The ESC will now emit a single beep, repeating slowly, this indicates option 1 is being set. Put the stick in the appropriate place for the setting you want. Option 1 is the break setting, so should be turned off in a heli, so the stick should be at low throttle. The ESC will wait a preset period of time beeping once slowly and then take the option as wherever the stick currently is placed. If you are following these instructions then you won't have moved the stick from the low throttle position at the start of the setup sequence.

The ESC now emits a scale of notes in quick succession to indicate the setting has been taken and will now beep twice, slowly and repeating. You are now setting option 2, hence the two beeps slowly repeating. You are now setting the timing for the motor. Place the stick in the appropriate place for your motor. Option 1 is low timing, option 2 is mid timing and option 3 is high timing. For an Align motor mid or low timing can be used, so middle or low throttle for the stick.
After a preset period the ESC will emit a scale of notes in quick succession, indicating the option has been set.

Following this the ESC will emit three beeps, repeating slowly, you are now setting option 3 for battery protection.
Again place the stick high, middle or low. I set my battery protection to high (70%) which is the low throttle stick position. This gives you just under 9v as the point your ESC will enter battery protection mode.

After a preset period you get the scale of notes in quick succession and then the ESC plays back your settings using beep codes for option 1, 2 and 3. Listen carefully to verify they are correct.

If they are then unplug the battery, plug it back in and go fly. If they aren't correct unplug the battery, place your stick at full throttle and plug the battery back in again to re-enter setup mode.

Here are the settings from the manual:
Feature options 1. Break option: 3 settings that include no break/soft break/hard break.
2. Electronic timing option: 3 settings that includes Low timing/Mid timing/High timing
Generally, lower pole motors were recommended to use lower timing while higher poles to use higher timing. Higher timing gives more power at the expense of efficiency. Always check the current draw after changing the timing in order to prevent overloading of battery.
3. Battery protection option: 3 settings that include 70% / 65% / 60%
The default setting is 65%. This option provides the battery from over-discharge. Please pay extra attention before you change this setting. You are at your own risk of damage the electronics device by over-discharge the battery and the controller. Any damage by over current of the controller is not covered by factory warranty.
The following is the setting guideline as reference.
For a 3-Cell Li-poly system
4.2V (Single cell fully charged voltage) x 3 = 12.6V
12.6V x 65% (Factory default) = 8.19V
When the voltage of 3-cell battery drops to 8.19V, the ESC will be
enable its battery protection. Then the power will be decreased by the
ESC. The flyer should prepare for landing in time.
Note: this option is only suitable for the fully charge and good battery packs.

Note also how low the voltage is, too low for healthy lipo's!!
wow very good info....i think this new world of r/c is teaching me that i need to learn more and more....i remember 20 years ago when i was fliying my cadet jr. airplane, you just need to set the servos, th and ready to fly lol.

So........making this simple. Thinks to take care:
Use always my equinox balancer
Never goes more than recommended mah of the battery
Never drain the lips too much(which the esc will tell me when stop flying)

Correct?.
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Old 01-05-2009, 07:50 AM
  #21  
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Yes, but it doesn't hurt to see how long it takes for the LVC to happen, then take a minute or 2 off that time and use that time for a time limit. your lipo's will last longer and you'll have more peace of mind!
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:26 AM
  #22  
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Hi I am new to electrics and was wondering how do I know what c rate I want in a battery. I would like to know this before I buy any. I am going to be flying a three meter RES sailplane .

thanks in advance
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Old 01-19-2009, 10:35 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Crash Serum View Post
Hi I am new to electrics and was wondering how do I know what c rate I want in a battery. I would like to know this before I buy any. I am going to be flying a three meter RES sailplane .

thanks in advance
Crash SERUM
I would suggest starting a new thread for your question that way its not confused with this one.

I am assuming you mean what discharge rate you should be going for? but your question is not clear on that. There are several ways to find out including some simple calculations with the setup and equipment. I can't answer your question directly but you might want to ask it in the Hi-Performance and Sailplanes form they would know more about that type of plane there.
www.wattflyer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=10
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Old 01-20-2009, 03:04 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by xuzme720 View Post
You should always fully charge before you fly. If your ESC has a cutoff it's usually a percentage of your start voltage. This means if you start off with a low voltage, you can actually go below the minimum safe voltage per cell and kill your new lipo for good.
I don't think this is true. If it were it would mean you shouldn't put more than one flight on the pack before charging. Many people fly several flights before putting the pack on charge. I know I do regularly. Every ESC I have ever seen with a voltage cut off has it based on the number of cells as detected by the ESC with the battery unloaded. All of mine are programmable to set the cut off level.

If you monitor the battery voltage while running the motor you will note the cut off level does not change for a given battery after several runs that discharge the pack a given amount.
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:35 PM
  #25  
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Depends on the ESC and they vary a lot.

Some use a percentage of the starting voltage so with a 3S at 12.5 X.7 = 8.75 already to low IMO. Same battery flown down to say 11.8 volts time .7=8.26 even worse.

Castle Creation Phoenix at facty seting auto LiPoly detect .

4S Lipoly charged equals 16.60-16.8 . Detected as 4S and will cut off at 12 volts.

Fly down to cutoff ,break and remake connection and it will likely be detected as a 3S with a new LVC of 9 volts.

If you use Castle Link and program a set voltage such a 10.5 then you can fly ,stop disconnect / reconnect a 3S as many tims as you like and it will stop at 10.5.


Charles
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