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Looking for input on XPD-8 setup

Old 01-11-2009, 05:22 PM
  #1  
d&mrc
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Default Looking for input on XPD-8 setup

I shall be buying one of these aircraft in kit form (well, as close to kit form as they make it, anyway) soon, and have selected all the components of my power system. Now I would like to know what you think.
It comes with the Hyperflow ducted fan, so I will use that, and:

Himax HA2025-5300
Hextronic 3s, 1000mah, 20c-35c lipo
2 of those 5 dollar servos from hobby people
Eflite 20 amp brushless esc
Hitect micro receiver (forgot the model, but it is perfectly suited for the task)

Should this work out all-right?

P.S. I also have a 1500mah, 15c lipo I could use, and maybe a 30 amp esc. I say maybe because i have had some problems with it in the past, which I think were due to a loos connection to the motor, but I am just not sure.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:06 AM
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There have been a few reports of the Eflight esc's not handling hi kV motors very well. Id also recomend a little more head room so Id say look for a 25-30 amps esc.

You might try one of The Don's esc's. They are proven to work well on edf setups and the price is good. Id go for the pentium 30.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:42 PM
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Okay then, I'll test that 30 amp esc of mine in the next couple of days, to make sure of whether it works or not. If not, then I guess I'll sell the E-flite esc, and get a nice, new, 25-30 amp one.
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Old 01-12-2009, 05:53 PM
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I'd be weary of using that high kv motor in the XPD, at least on 3 cells. I'm using the 3200 kv Himax 2025, and Don Sims is using the Turnigy 24mm 3790kv. Mine pulls right at 16 amps, Don's goes to about 20....the planes are wicked fast on 3 cells with either of these setups. It wouldn't surprise me to see the 5300 draw over 45 amps in that combination, which will exceed the capability of every component in the setup.

At the speeds we have reached, the winglets and canopies will not stay attached, and the wings develop a lot of flex...
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Old 01-12-2009, 06:58 PM
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I dont actually have an XPD so that sounds like better advice
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Old 01-12-2009, 07:12 PM
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I don't know how large that fan is, but the 2025-5300 is too high in kv for much larger than a 55mm fan. Works well in the EDF55 at around 26A.
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Old 01-12-2009, 09:17 PM
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The Hyperflow is a 54.5 mm ID diameter 5 bladed fan...A 3 bladed fan might work, but when a 4000kv motor is already pulling 25 amps in it, a 5300 is going to blow something up...
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by crash_out View Post
The Hyperflow is a 54.5 mm ID diameter 5 bladed fan...A 3 bladed fan might work, but when a 4000kv motor is already pulling 25 amps in it, a 5300 is going to blow something up...
What brand of 4000kv motor is pulling 25A in the fan?
Does the design draw that much more than the EDF55, which runs at roughly 25A with a Himax 2025-5300?
I know they do have a lot more blades in there than other fans.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:07 AM
  #9  
crash_out
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From the Tower website...
# LiPo Voltage Current Power Static RPM Efflux Speed Efflux Speed
Cells Thrust meters/sec miles/hour
3 11.1V 10.3A 114W 240g (8.5oz) 29,000 32.40 72.48
4* 14.8V 16.0A 230W 408g (14.4oz) 37,500 39.98 89.44~



Optional Brushless Motor 20-40-3500
2 7.4V 8.7A 64W 215g (7.6oz) 27,000 30.88 69.08
3 11.1V 15.7A 174W 389g (13.7oz) 35,800 38.81 86.82
4* 14.8V 22.3A 330W 564g (19.9oz) 43,000 48.44 108.36~


Optional Brushless Motor 20-40-4040
2 7.4V 12.0A 89W 245g (8.7oz) 28,500 32.75 73.45


Optional Brushless Motor 24-33-4875
2 7.4V 17.2A 127W 303g (10.7oz) 32,300 40.91~ 91.50~
3* 11.1V 32.0A 355W 548g (19.3oz) 42,100 73.98~ 165.49~

Optional Brushless Motor 24-45-3790
2 7.4V 9.7A 72W 207g (7.3oz) 27,120 27.95 62.51
3 11.1V 19.9A 221W 450g (15.9oz) 38,600 60.75 135.89~
4 14.8V 32.6A 482W 721g (25.4oz) 48,000 97.34 217.73~
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:35 AM
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I have a really bad headache right now, so I can't do the math myself. Would a 2 cell, 1330mah, 13c, work out all-right? I would just sell the Himax motor, but i don't know if I'll get enough to cover a new, lower kv motor.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:11 AM
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I would just use a 3-cell and check the draw, limiting throttle if necessary. I tried a 2 cell with that motor in an EDF55 on the bench just out of interest, and rembember enough to know that the thrust didn't seem to be enough to fly much of anything.
Looking at the ratings you put up for the fan with 370 short cans, it doesn't look much different from an EDF55. I'd use the 2025-5300 on 3s. Full length Himax heatsink is not a bad idea either, as 25A is really hard on the motors but they can hold up. I had one 2025-5300 explode a rotor magnet, and my second has had many flights. Similar to other reports, sometimes you get a good rotor casting, sometimes not, but in general they will take it. Have not had the windings fail at 25A continuous though.

As for the battery, I've flown the Flitzer with Himax 2025-5300/EDF55 using an EVO 3s-1320, and it beats the hell out of the lipo at full throttle of around 25A. Really even at part throttle. Near max rating it comes in really hot. You don't want to run even the best batteries that hard. I normally fly it with an EVO 3s-1800.

BTW, after a number of flights, the TBird-18 has proven to be at least a good 25A ESC, mounted in the duct.
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Old 01-13-2009, 11:49 PM
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I just had a brilliant idea (if I do say so myself). I will fly around at full throttle all I like, 5300 kv motor or not! No, I am not blowing you all off. What I was thinking, was that I could hook up an amp meter (just how do I do that, by the way?) and go into my transmitter's travel adjust screen. From there I will set the positive throttle to 0%. Then, with the plane secured, I will advance the throttle to full (using the stick, not the travel adjust). This will of course do nothing. Then I will slowly increase the travel for positive throttle, all the while keeping a watchful eye on my amp meter. Once it is pulling, say, 17 amps, I cut the throttle, save the setting, and presto! I can now fly without any worries about pulling too many amps. I am of the understanding that amp draw in the air is different thatn amp draw on the ground, which is why I said 17 amps instead of 20 (my esc's maximum rating). My battery can handle up to 20 continuous, and 35 burst, so I am not really worried about that.
What do you think? Do you see any reason why that may not work?
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Old 01-14-2009, 12:51 AM
  #13  
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People often program throttle limits with a computerized transmitter. The only reason I haven't done it is that I want the burst power if needed.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:54 AM
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That technique will work to limit the motor and battery amps but its very hard on the controllers. You may still see excessive heating on the motor.

The reason is that the motor and controller will still see the full peak amps - just not as often. So you need to be sure the controller can handle the full throttle amps and you will need to check the motor as it may still over heat though probably to a lesser degree.

The controller will be the main concern.
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
That technique will work to limit the motor and battery amps but its very hard on the controllers. You may still see excessive heating on the motor.

The reason is that the motor and controller will still see the full peak amps - just not as often. So you need to be sure the controller can handle the full throttle amps and you will need to check the motor as it may still over heat though probably to a lesser degree.

The controller will be the main concern.
Okay, I'll test out my 30 amp esc ASAP.
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Old 01-16-2009, 05:49 PM
  #16  
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Well, the 30 amp esc works, but now I have a new dillema. For the price of a decent amp or multi-meter, I can pick up a cheap inrunner online. The problem is, finding one with accurate manufacturer specs, and proper dimensions. (I will not pay 40 dollars for the reccomended Ammo motor). So, is the 20mmx40mm (as much as I hate the metric system, it is all many of the websites use) mtor size set in stone? What about the 10mmx2mm shaft size?
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Old 01-16-2009, 07:12 PM
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The motor must fit snugly into the motor tube in the fan housing, so yes - the 20mm dimension - if thats the recomended size - is critical.

You can go with a longer motor if you want - or a shorter motor. The things to watch for are that the kV stays within the range it needs to so you will get the rpm you want from the packs your going to use. Longer motors will heat up less and tend to be more efficient under hi loads. They are of course heavier so keep that in mind. Shorter motors may over heat.

The motor shaft size 2mm in this case - is determined by what adaptors you have access to. The fan probably comes with an adaptor to mount the rotor to a 2mm shaft. If your replacement motor has a different sized shaft, then you have to come up with an adaptor that will fit the new shaft size AND still fit the rotor AND keep it in the correct position in the fan housing. Thats not always easy.

Over all, its much easier to stick with a motor that has the correct size shaft and case diameter.

There are lots of 20mm motors out there that have 2mm shafts. Himax, Hyperion, Hacker for starters. Im sure trhere are some cheepos from Hobby City too.

The other choice is to go with an outrunner with an adaptor. You could contact The Don at Dons RC. He has a wide range of motors and adaptors that will fit quite a few different fans. Im not 100% sure about your exact fan though so you need to talk to him.

http://www.donsrc.com/cart/index.php
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:08 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Venom-V20L-3350kv-Brushless-Inrunner-Motor_W0QQitemZ320330773922QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadi o_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item320330773922& _trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65 %3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

That motor in particular has caught my eye. The seller says it can take 15-16 amps on a 4s lipo, which (when using the smaller of those two numbers) comes out to 20 amps for a 3s, which is perfect. The only problem is, I can find no information either confirming or denying this anywhere on the world wide web (no maximum wattage, voltage, nothing). However, I did find it's dimensions. It is 20mmx40mm, with a 2.3mm shaft. Do you think that .3mm difference will pose very much of a problem? I was thinking that a small drillbit and/or a screwdriver, along with somepatience and elbow grease might make it work....
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by d&mrc View Post
Well, the 30 amp esc works, but now I have a new dillema. For the price of a decent amp or multi-meter, I can pick up a cheap inrunner online. The problem is, finding one with accurate manufacturer specs, and proper dimensions. (I will not pay 40 dollars for the reccomended Ammo motor). So, is the 20mmx40mm (as much as I hate the metric system, it is all many of the websites use) mtor size set in stone? What about the 10mmx2mm shaft size?
i dont see the dilemma here. the in runner may work out for you. you may enjoy it for a while or maybe it'll end up burning out because you were pulling to many amps because you werent sure what the amp draw was, or you'll lose another plane in the future because you didnt have the amp meter. the motor might seem to be more fun, but the amp meter is something you wont regret buying and much more important in the grand scheme.
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Old 01-16-2009, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by d&mrc View Post
http://cgi.ebay.com/Venom-V20L-3350kv-Brushless-Inrunner-Motor_W0QQitemZ320330773922QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadi o_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item320330773922& _trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65 %3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

That motor in particular has caught my eye. The seller says it can take 15-16 amps on a 4s lipo, which (when using the smaller of those two numbers) comes out to 20 amps for a 3s, which is perfect. The only problem is, I can find no information either confirming or denying this anywhere on the world wide web (no maximum wattage, voltage, nothing). However, I did find it's dimensions. It is 20mmx40mm, with a 2.3mm shaft. Do you think that .3mm difference will pose very much of a problem? I was thinking that a small drillbit and/or a screwdriver, along with somepatience and elbow grease might make it work....
Unless you have a drill press or a laythe and are very good at centering - I wouldnt try it. You will end up with an offcenter hole and vibrations you cant get rid of. Not a good idea on an edf.

Unknown motors are always a risk. Even the brand name vendors often exagerate specs. With an E-Bay seller.....
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by d&mrc View Post
http://cgi.ebay.com/Venom-V20L-3350kv-Brushless-Inrunner-Motor_W0QQitemZ320330773922QQcmdZViewItemQQptZRadi o_Control_Parts_Accessories?hash=item320330773922& _trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65 %3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50

That motor in particular has caught my eye. The seller says it can take 15-16 amps on a 4s lipo, which (when using the smaller of those two numbers) comes out to 20 amps for a 3s, which is perfect. The only problem is, I can find no information either confirming or denying this anywhere on the world wide web (no maximum wattage, voltage, nothing). However, I did find it's dimensions. It is 20mmx40mm, with a 2.3mm shaft. Do you think that .3mm difference will pose very much of a problem? I was thinking that a small drillbit and/or a screwdriver, along with somepatience and elbow grease might make it work....
If you're talking about enlarging adapters, here's how I both don't do it anymore, and how I do it in a way that works:
Don't try to drill to size. If you're even a hair too large, you'll never center the rotor.
What I do I find the closest bit I have that fits in the alum adapter hole. I then roll the adapter along the edge of a table making passes, with the drill running and slight side pressure on the drill. Hold everthing as straight and true as possible, to avoid uneven honing of the adapter. This will take a while, as you are using the bit as a hone, but if you hold the drill straight you will get an even hone, while also making the tightest slop free fit possilbe over the motor shaft.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:19 AM
  #22  
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Damnit.
That isn't directed at any of you, just this whole ridiculous situation. So far this has gone from a cheap, easy way to turn some spare parts into a plane (and replace that pos phase 3 swoop, the biggest waste of 100 dollars there is) to a royal pain in the abutt. Sounds like enlarging the hole will be too risky, but everything else is too pricey. I have 48 left that I am willing to commit to this. 35 goes towards the airframe itself (thank goodness it comes with the fan unit), leaving 15 dollars to get either some sort of meter that will measure the amps the motor is pulling, or get a new motor. I will alocate more funds if I absolutely must, but I will not spend much more. I am trying to sell/trade the Himax motor right now, so that should help.
That being said, do you think I can get an XPD-8, or any plane, out of this? I also have a 2408-21, and two HS-50's. I bought new HS-55's today, as I though the HS-50's would be too small (plus the HS-55's were on sale, and I won't be able to get back down to hobby people anytime soon).. I would love to get my 20 bucks back if the HS-50's will work.
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Old 01-17-2009, 05:23 AM
  #23  
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I doubt the HS50's will stand the strain. The HS55's are a much better choice.

As for the rest I cant help much there as IM not familiar with the XPD8. Being on a tight budget is always dificult though. I feel your pain.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:28 AM
  #24  
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I finally got a lucky break. A fellow wattflyer member has offered to trade his 3200kv Himax HA2025, for my 5300kv Himax HA2025. I have placed the order for the plane, and we will both ship our motors Tuesday. I will post how the maiden goes, but it probably won't be for another week or two. Until, I guess the thread will hibernate. LOL.
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Old 01-19-2009, 02:46 AM
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One more idea...

The brushed BB motor that comes with the ARF version of XPDhas got good power with 3S. No argument you will get more power with BL but brushed may be a good start.


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