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Why no safety switch on motors??

Old 12-15-2010, 05:37 AM
  #51  
FlyingBrick50
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Sorry, double post,........

Last edited by FlyingBrick50; 12-15-2010 at 05:39 AM. Reason: Double post, sorry
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Old 12-15-2010, 02:35 PM
  #52  
av8djc
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There is a bit of a difference in the amount of potential damage if we're talking a very small park flyer here or something more significant like 1000 watt motor and up. It could be a cut finger or a cut off finger or worse. I treat them all like a loaded weapon, even with a safety switch.

I just picked up one of these newer HK ESC's for an 80 amp system. The startup protection consists of a switch. It works great, just like the CC HV series ESC's.
http://tinyurl.com/24ygmnn

I'm also using the following EUBC on my large airplanes:
http://tinyurl.com/2fr67ke
As you can see it comes with a safety switch.In both cases the switch just activates the motor(throttle), the receiver stays on all the time. One note is that using both of the above together in the system I decided to disable the EUBC switch. In doing so I found out that to have current to the receiver (switch on) the circuit is open. I just snipped the switch wires off the circuit board to make it hot all the time. I'm thinking that with this design it's a good fail safe if the switch fails in flight.
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:13 PM
  #53  
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With a DX6i rather than voiding the warranty with a flip switch for the throttle kill. Couldn't you just use on of the mixes set up on one of the other switches? I will give it a try when I get home this evening it I have time.
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:28 PM
  #54  
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The DX6I has a throttle hold switch on the right hand side at the top. You have to have heli selected on model type for it to work.So all you need to do is set your model up as heli on the DX6i and inhibit the swash mix and it will work.
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:43 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by squidger View Post
The DX6I has a throttle hold switch on the right hand side at the top. You have to have heli selected on model type for it to work.So all you need to do is set your model up as heli on the DX6i and inhibit the swash mix and it will work.
Can you switch between Airplane mode and heli mode without losing your settings that have already been set for the plane? Switching to heli mode, wouldnt that mess with the Aux channel or another channel. On my corsair I am using all six channels (throttle, Rudder, Elevator, Aileron (1 servo in Aileron, 1 servo in Aux) and Retract (gear).
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:54 PM
  #56  
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I'm not sure about losing your settings cause I upgraded to a DX7 so don't have mine anymore. You can still use the aux channel and all other channels. You just have to either inhibit the swash or select single servo swash otherwise it will mix two or more channels that you don't want mixed. I had my old DX6i set up for my phoenix sim as heli and it flew all the helis and fixed wing perfectly i used all channels and several mixes with no problems at all.Just be a bit weary of the flight mode switch position cause if you engage that the motor will go to full throttle just like it does on your heli if you have the throttle curve set up.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:35 AM
  #57  
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A manual switch is a very effective way of preventing your plane from becoming a runaway food processor when you plug in the battery by mechanically cutting the power from the ESC and thereby everything else. However, that is in a way also a handicap, as along with the motor the reciever and all the servoes are also cut off.

What would be better is a switch that isolated the motor only, letting you power everything else up so you can still go throgh a prefight check. Then when you're ready to launch you can safely "arm" the motor. Or is there something in the ESC that would be screwed up by this?
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:01 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
A manual switch is a very effective way of preventing your plane from becoming a runaway food processor when you plug in the battery by mechanically cutting the power from the ESC and thereby everything else. However, that is in a way also a handicap, as along with the motor the reciever and all the servoes are also cut off.

What would be better is a switch that isolated the motor only, letting you power everything else up so you can still go throgh a prefight check. Then when you're ready to launch you can safely "arm" the motor. Or is there something in the ESC that would be screwed up by this?
I'm not sure if this applies to all or most ESC's or not but it does to mine. If I have motor disconnected from ESC when I power up - then ESC doesn't complete it's 'start-up' beep sequence. How this affects it's operation then I'd need to check. But I know that when I check out my 450 Heli and need motor de-powered for blade setting etc., I stopped unplugging motor as it then altered the operation of the ESC in terms of Rx etc. I then started using the Throttle Cut-Off on the Tx.
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:46 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Trammellc2001 View Post
Can you switch between Airplane mode and heli mode without losing your settings that have already been set for the plane? Switching to heli mode, wouldnt that mess with the Aux channel or another channel. On my corsair I am using all six channels (throttle, Rudder, Elevator, Aileron (1 servo in Aileron, 1 servo in Aux) and Retract (gear).
I don't have a DX6i .... but wouldn't swapping Aero to Heli model type change / alter some menu items ? I know on my programmable radio that if I swap model type - I get additional + some functions added / changed.

Maybe the way to check is to create a fictional test model in an empty memory and try it out - see what happens ? OR copy ALL present settings to another free memory ... then try it on original. If it fails - then copy all back.

??
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:30 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
A manual switch is a very effective way of preventing your plane from becoming a runaway food processor when you plug in the battery by mechanically cutting the power from the ESC and thereby everything else. However, that is in a way also a handicap, as along with the motor the reciever and all the servoes are also cut off.

What would be better is a switch that isolated the motor only, letting you power everything else up so you can still go throgh a prefight check. Then when you're ready to launch you can safely "arm" the motor. Or is there something in the ESC that would be screwed up by this?
See my post #52
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:49 AM
  #61  
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high guys.

on my big 65 inch mustang i built a battery disconect and charge plug.
this plane spins a 16inch prop at 1500watts of power.

the initial reason was i did not have a bay to put the battery in. i had to remove the wing. so i wanted to be able to charge the battery at the field. as a result i decided it would also be great to be able to diconect the esc wile carrying this big plane for any reason. so i took eflites big 5mm plug and cut one in half and put it togather with an uncut one. now i had a plug that had a female bullet, a male bullet and another female bullet. the uncut eflite pulg was wired for charging.

i soldered a wire disconect togather using a short piece of 8gage solid wire wich is only an inch long and two 5mm bullet connectors. this plugs into the two outer female bullet connecter in the plane wich is wired to connect the positive side of the battery to the esc. it works fantatic.

later andrew K
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:52 AM
  #62  
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oh ya,

forgot to mention.

the rx is wired to a bec so i have full control of plane minus throttle when battery disconect or BD is removed. so flight checks can be done and no accidents will happen. and believe me if you got your hand in the prop of this thing it would definatly leave a mark.
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Old 12-20-2010, 06:31 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Shrikered View Post
This may be something of a newbie question, but there seems to be a needless safety gap in the standard procedure that we use when powering up/powering off. Why don't people use a physical switch (or a fuse) between the ESC and the MOTOR??
Ran into this issue with my A123 12S2P packs that are split into two 6S2P A123 packs in my giant scale Hacker A60-16M powered model. The battery pack has to be split in half in order to charge it with my home built chargers, and I did not want to have to pull the canopy every time the batteries needed charging.

So, a total of eight (yes eight) Anderson Power Pole battery connectors were wired through the side of the fuse. The bottom four are connected to the plus and minus connections of the pair of 6S2P batteries. To charge them, just connect the charger to the bottom four connectors.

But to fly, these batteries must be placed in series. So, four Vertical jumpers are placed into these connectors as shown in the attached photo. (I've only got two plugged in to show how they are inserted, and also showing the different orientation of these connectors.) The center two connections in the top connector row are connected together, the two outside connectors are wired to the Castle Creations 80 Amp HV ESC. One 6S2P A123 pack is also connected to the uBEC to power the radio. The radio also has a backup A123 battery also feeding the radio, covered in another thread in www.wattflyer.com. (http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58310)

So, the ESC and motor are not powered up until all FOUR plugs are inserted into this connector block. It works!

That Hacker A60-16M motor pulls 2350 watts out of that battery pack at full throttle.
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Last edited by kyleservicetech; 12-20-2010 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:49 AM
  #64  
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Default Safety, Safety,Safety FIRST......

Originally Posted by spitfire View Post
It never seemed like to big of a problem to me...

thats why you should be careful with your transmitter, once you plug in the battery, it should be kept from elbow-knocking distance.

Spit
DITTO, it only happened to me one time on my first Park Flyer.....Was on my front patio, making last minute minor adjustments for a fun day of flying, accidently hit/bumped the throttle and it shot right by me and MASHED into my BBQ.....Never,Ever happened again.....Live and learn..... Up until then, had only flown Nitro for 20+ yrs. and didn't know to disconnect the wires to the electric motor.....Wish i would've joined/read WATTFLYER first.....KOOLKRABBER47.....
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:42 PM
  #65  
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For number of years, on all my larger planes I have been using the Anderson Power Pole connectors as a jumper plug between the motor battery and the ESC. It is so easy to make it safe by just unplugging the plug. I do not thrust any On /Off control switch that is part of the ESC.
The picture shows the plug on my 1/4 scale Jodel.
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:21 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by LADISLAV View Post
For number of years, on all my larger planes I have been using the Anderson Power Pole connectors as a jumper plug between the motor battery and the ESC. It is so easy to make it safe by just unplugging the plug. I do not thrust any On /Off control switch that is part of the ESC.
The picture shows the plug on my 1/4” scale Jodel.
Agreed!
Switches that can handle the high currents pulled by our electric motors simply are not available. And if they were, they would weigh more than the Anderson Power Pole connector.

It's not well known, but when you try to switch off high levels of DC (Direct Current) current values of say over 30 Amperes or so, on a battery over perhaps 30 Volts DC, that is very rough duty on a switch. That's one reason our portable power tools are usually marked AC only, even though their universal motors will run on DC. First time you turn off the switch with the power on, the switch burns out. (Don't ask how I know)

Even if I could find a switch can could handle the 60 Amperes pulled by my Hacker A60-16M motor, throwing that switch even once when the motor is running would destroy that switch. The switch would not clear that DC current, and the resulting arcing across the switch contacts would quickly melt, and weld the contacts together.

Before retiring, we used very expensive magnetic blowout switches to handle any DC current over about 5 Amps, and over about 24 Volts DC. Once we accidentally mixed standard switches with those magnetic blowout switches on an order. Had to recall all of them.
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:25 AM
  #67  
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Default Prop safety switch.

This set up allowed me to put the switch on the bottom of the plane. GWS Corsair. As the plane touches down the ..Foward on position... Is pushed backward switching off the ESC signal from the receiver.

Works great as there is only a few milliamps flowing.............. Switch pushed foward. ESC is ready to run. Landing pushes the switch to the rear. stopping ALL receiver motor signals.

WARNING!!!!!!!!!! This ONLY STOPS THE THROTTLE signal from turning on the ESC.
You can now MORE SAFELY reach into the plane & disconnect the MAIN BATTERY.

NOTHING is always goof proof.
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:32 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by LADISLAV View Post
For number of years, on all my larger planes I have been using the Anderson Power Pole connectors as a jumper plug between the motor battery and the ESC. It is so easy to make it safe by just unplugging the plug. I do not thrust any On /Off control switch that is part of the ESC.
The picture shows the plug on my 1/4 scale Jodel.
This message and KStech's are very useful. But I still have a dumb question: why can't I install such a device between the ESC and the MOTOR? That way, the electronics will still be powered and I can test everything except the engine itself.
What happens if only 2 of the 3 wires into a motor are connected?
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:36 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Shrikered View Post
This message and KStech's are very useful. But I still have a dumb question: why can't I install such a device between the ESC and the MOTOR? That way, the electronics will still be powered and I can test everything except the engine itself.
What happens if only 2 of the 3 wires into a motor are connected?
You probably could put a switch in the motor side. Probably nothing would happen, but with the wide variety of ESC's made all over the world, could be one of them could be damaged if the switch was thrown while the motor is under power.

If you really need to disconnect the motor from the ESC, just pick up three poles of an Anderson Power Pole connector, and stack them three wide.

Over the 45 years I spent as an electronics Service Tech, I've seen my share of double, triple and quad pole (expensive!) toggle switches have one pole fail to make contact. That could be bad for the ESC.

Plus, you still need a switch that can carry the current pulled by your motor. About 20 Amps is the highest current rating available for a toggle switch, and that switch is going to be heavy, as compared to the weight of a model a 20 Ampere motor will fly.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:06 PM
  #70  
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As Kyle says. And. The FORCE needed to push the switch ON & OFF is VERY high. You would definately need to put a thin piece of plywood on it to prevent cracking a foam plane.

Since you would never .. NORMALLY... switch with the motor running, You could ALMOST be sure the 10 amp switch could carry 5 X the rating of the switch.
1 time it is switched while running means a NEW SWITCH is needed. NO EXCUSES.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:51 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Shrikered View Post
This message and KStech's are very useful. But I still have a dumb question: why can't I install such a device between the ESC and the MOTOR? That way, the electronics will still be powered and I can test everything except the engine itself.
What happens if only 2 of the 3 wires into a motor are connected?
Except that quite a few ESCs will refuse to initialise if no motor is connected. And connecting just 2 of the 3 motor wires can damage the ESC or just possibly the motor.

If you really want to TEST the electronics without the motor connected then use a separate Rx battery and don't connect the motor battery until you're ready to go.

Adding a mechanical switch just adds an extra failure point. Why would you want to do that ?

Steve
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Old 12-22-2010, 04:49 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by slipstick View Post
Except that quite a few ESCs will refuse to initialise if no motor is connected. And connecting just 2 of the 3 motor wires can damage the ESC or just possibly the motor.

If you really want to TEST the electronics without the motor connected then use a separate Rx battery and don't connect the motor battery until you're ready to go.

Adding a mechanical switch just adds an extra failure point. Why would you want to do that ?

Steve
Agreed:

Again, the simplest solution, just take the prop off while testing things!

Dennis V
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:01 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by cyclops2 View Post
This set up allowed me to put the switch on the bottom of the plane. GWS Corsair. As the plane touches down the ..Foward on position... Is pushed backward switching off the ESC signal from the receiver.

Works great as there is only a few milliamps flowing.............. Switch pushed foward. ESC is ready to run. Landing pushes the switch to the rear. stopping ALL receiver motor signals.

WARNING!!!!!!!!!! This ONLY STOPS THE THROTTLE signal from turning on the ESC.
You can now MORE SAFELY reach into the plane & disconnect the MAIN BATTERY.

NOTHING is always goof proof.
It seems as if the switch is shut off when the plane touches down.
Does that mean to say you have a separate switch on your transmitter that switches off the ESC when you hit it?

Or does it somehow do it automatically?? How does THAT work?!?!

I can see some kind of small switch that would be manually turned off/on at the airplane. Is that what it is?
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:10 PM
  #74  
57sailplane
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here is my eflite 5mm style connector plug. this is used to disconnect and also charge the plane at the field. outside 2 bullets fly mode. one of the inside and outside plugs are charge mode its the uncut one if you can see it. stupid camera dose not want to focus. cheap 300dollar piece of.

anyways this system works really good. as you can see i have a Rx switch also so i can shut the whole plane down with battery still in the plane.

hope you can see pics

later Andrew K
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:28 PM
  #75  
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Default High Chinaclipper

The switch is on the bottom of the plane. It IS SHUT OFF by landing the plane. Great for additional safety where kids or dogs run over to pick it up. It does about the same thing as a " ARMING switch ".

IF you land in DEEP SOFT grass mine would not work. Not enough friction on the switch lever. I have since stopped using it, as I am very carefull now.
Wacked fingers teach more efficiently than all the safety talks do.

You left your plane at my house.
It is the China Clipper.
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