safecub

Very soon i will be making the jump from 3 chan to a 4 chan
now i use the rudder to turn on the ground but also now this is just me
if i need to turn left i will bank the plane left and have the right rudder on so it gives it a nice smooth turn is this right? or should i have the rudder the same way it is turning alone with the ailerons

Rodneh

Some people do but I personally think it is a bad idea. It is much better, and your flights will be better performed, if you learn to coordinate your left thumb along with the right thumb on ailerons. After a bit of practice, you will find you really miss not having individual rudder control under some conditions, especially on cross wind landings and some aerobatics.

JetPlaneFlyer

Nope.. just use your thumbs. Problem with mixing is that you then cant just use ailerons alone, like you would want to do in a roll for instance.

Steve

rcers

I always put my mixes on a switch to avoid this.

JetPlaneFlyer

Yeah, that's ok but i have other mixes (like knife edge mix) on switches and things just get too complicated. I've never really seen any point in mixing rudder with ailerons because you can do it very easily with your thumbs and too be honest most aerobatic models don't need rudder mixing it anyway.

But each to his own....

Steve

rcers

Yep I never use them on aerobatic ships.

Currently I use it on:
EFlite Beaver
Telemaster Plus
Cub

Those benefit greatly from the mix and since they are not highly aerobatic it is not a big deal. It is a lazy thing, even on those planes, no question.

Mike

pd1

A plane turns by banking, Applying ailerons will cause the plane to bank.

When the plane banks, some of the wings lift will be directed towards the direction the plane is banked. This is what actually causes the turn.
Problem is, some planes twist the fuselage in the opposite direction of the bank when ailerons are applied.
This opposite twisting motion is called adverse yaw.

It is caused by the ailerons not making equal drag on either side of the plane and causing the plane to twist or yaw adversely to the turn.

Rudder should be applied in the same direction of the turn to offset the yaw of the fuselage.

The correct amount of rudder varies with the amount of aileron deflection.
Some people with radios that have mixing capabilities mix the rudder and aileron to move the same direction at the same time.
If you applied right aileron the transmitter will apply right rudder automatically.

If you are learning, it is pretty easy to just move the transmitter sticks the same direction at the same time. Move the right stick to the right and move the left stick to the right simultaneously.

It then lets you vary the rudder input to what you think is correct.
You can learn how much rudder is correct pretty quickly and you will get used to moving both sticks.

road king 97

I have never tried to use left ail and right rudder unless i was doing a one wheel touch and go, holding the plane slightly tilted . I have a 1/3 scale cub that will not turn at all with ail so i have mixed rudder going in the same direction as my ail to help keep my turns flat with this plane . My short solent will probobly fly the same way as alot of scale planes fly like this. I will fly it first without the mixing to see how much rudder mixing it will need . It just helps me when i have a ton of other stuff going on and 20 other people flying at the same time. joe

FlyWheel

I agree. The best, most precise computer mixing functions are contaied betwixt your ears. Knowing how to use them properly will make you a better pilot, because it can think and adapt to changing conditions. Radios cant. These people who spend mega bucks for super sophisticated radios just so they can be programmed to do everything automatically are IMO to lazy to learn how to fly.

kyleservicetech

Put me down also for leaving the rudder/aileron mix out of the transmitter. Years ago I had a giant 1/4 scale electric Piper Cub. That thing really looked weird when a left turn bank resulted in the fuse turning right.

Just hit the rudder with the aileron, and you'll be just fine.

xmech2k

My Phase3 P-40 needs it. It has NO dihedral and really acts funny in turns. I have the rud-ail mix on a switch so I can leave it off for take-offs and landings.

My Apprentice and PZ Corsair don't need it for just regular flying around, though I still use the rudder a lot when doing different maneuvers, to tighten a turn without having to bank more, take-offs and landings of course.

I think once again it's a matter of aircraft design and setup. My Apprentice and Corsair probably slip in the turns, but without sitting in the tiny cockpit and having a slip indicator, you can't tell from the ground, and it turns well enough. Planes like my P-40 on the other hand, have something in their design that makes it not want to turn well. This thread got me thinking about it, and I'm wondering if in the case of my P-40, is it that the wing has NO dihedral? Maybe aileron induced adverse yaw, since there is no differential built in? (I have my Corsair ailerons on seperate channels with differential throws.) I have a spare channel on the P-40, so maybe after I get the Turbojet flying, I'll dig into her wing and find where the ail servo leads come together and set it up so I can get them on seperate channels. It will be interesting to see if it helps.

Ugh! Did I ramble again? Sorry!

road king 97

Even though i mix a little rudder in with my ail does not mean i still dont use my rudder. I still can use rudder and it does not move the ail at all only the ail control will move the rudder a bit. I dont know if spending 300 bucks for a dx-7 is having a super sophisticated radio but i think it is just a average one ,and nothing fancy. I learned more about flying with a rudder by flying a byron 1/3 scale pitts with a 50 cc motor than any other plane. The engine on take off would try to eat its own tail from motor tork and you had to be on the rudder at all times. joe

wolfewinde

I usually mix in a small amount of rudder too - 10% to 15%. It smooths out your aileron turns a bit and doesn't affect a roll all that much - and you can override it at anytime with direct rudder input anyway.

Wolfe

safecub

ohh yes i am with you now so same way as i turn ..i had rubber right and right stick left (so its WITH the turn) not away got it

i fly a supercub so its just a way to get used to flying ..so i should not worry about it and use it in landings huh?

JetPlaneFlyer

No need to do that.. Its very easy to add differential to a single servo aileron set up. You just do it mechanically with the linkages.

If the servo is on top of the wing use a circular servo arm and connect the pushrods to holes that instead of being 180 Deg apart (90 deg each side of centre) are both offset slightly toward the rear, making the included angle between the holes about 150 Deg (75 Deg each side of centre).

If the servo is on the bottom do the same thing but offset toward the front.

15 Deg offset as suggested above should create moderate differential but if you want more just offset the holes by a greater angle. This was the only way you could create differential before these fancy computer radios came on the scene (showing my age?)

Steve

AEAJR

I use A/R mixing on my thermal duration gliders but not on my power planes. And if I did I would be sure to put it on a switch so I could turn it off.

Even on the gliders I turn it off when I am in thermals so I can fly it manually for more custom mixing.

For general cruising, a little A/R mixing might be good, but if you plan to engage in any form of aerobatics you definately want to turn this off.

xmech2k

Thanks Jetplaneflyer for the ail servo offset suggestion! I knew there was a mechanical way as well, just didn't know how it worked. I'll look into that as a possible solution as well. It'll all come down to the way-of-the-electron. I learned to work like an electron, follow the path of least resistance!

BEAR-AvHistory

Yes with flat bottom wings

road king 97

My old school sea plane the beast has elevons and no computer mixing at all just sliding trays with servos in them for left right and up and down .If i were to build that same plane today i probobly would program it with my radio . It was a nightmare to get the trays and all the linkage to work together . It tiped over and got wet one day and the wood rails that the trays slide on swelled so nothing worked till it dried out and went back to normal. lol joe

Nitro Blast

I have not ever used rudder/aileron mixing, but recently, in our pylon race series, I'm mixing some left rudder in with up elevator.

When racing, it keeps the nose down during the turn. Everyone else shoots up, and I'm still right level with the ground.

Sorry... off topic, but I wanted to tell SOMEONE who Im not racing against!


Steve, bro, even with the computer radiios, with a single servo, that is the way to go. You cant mess that simple setup up.

solentlife

Simple answer to ORIGINAL post title :

Do not mix aileron with rudder.

Yep simple isn't it.

Learn to use each control separately.

Lets say your are on take off run and wind veers a touch .. model starts to track off line ... you hit rudder to correct ... aileron comes on as well ... WOW she lifts and WHY did she cartwheel ?

I have been RC'ing for nigh on 45yrs and only reason to mix surfaces is when you need rollrate or to make a plane turn. But then we are talking advanced models.

Original poster is talking about 3ch to 4ch ... so he's obviously read some of the online spiel that gets put about ...

To original poster ... if you are progressing to a standard imtermediate 4ch machine that will do most sports and club aerobatics forget all this crap you read about mixing and this and that ... set it up as 4ch and ENJOY !

solentlife

Come on .... please ....... the guy is going from 3ch to 4ch and is concerned that he has used rudder as primary turn control and will now use aileron. He has no left stick experience to use rudder alone !
He really doesn't need this reply about a FEW models that are aerodynamically adverse ........... I doubt very much he will be buying such a model ! In fact I have trouble trying to think of any model that needs such setting up apart from some awful WW1 Biplanes ... yes I've had one !!

With greatest respect - can people answer in relation directly to original post ?

solentlife

If you did ... you'd never place in any comps !!

kenchiroalpha

Hi
No i do not
Take care
Yours Hank

xmech2k

While you are correct in a lot of what you said in your 2 posts, especially how this discussion is way over the level the OP requires, the quoted statement is incorrect, at least with the radio I am familiar with. When you program the ail-rud mix, it will add rudder automatically when you make an ail input, but rudder inputs will not affect the ailerons.

You're also right, we don't need to have the mix, but it's a convenience to help tame some difficult to fly models. That's what this hobby is all about, to each his own.