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straight foward dynaflite "bird of time"e-powered, winter 2012 build

Hi-Performance and Sailplanes RC hotliners, electric pylon racers, F5B, F5D, sailplanes and gliders

straight foward dynaflite "bird of time"e-powered, winter 2012 build

Old 03-04-2012, 04:59 AM
  #26  
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thanks rt,i must say that the wings are identical to each other and no sign of warps since i pinned it to the board securely for each step,even gluing cap strips on ribs,I'd pin and weight the wing flat .

I'm really interested in the fuse elevator assembly,,this will be the first plane i have that the whole horizontal moves.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:03 AM
  #27  
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RT, What you are seeing is an optical illusion. It's caused by the odd shape of the trailing edge and the camera angle. There is just one bend in each wing half.

Looking nice and straight Stu! Keep up the good work.

Steve
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:03 AM
  #28  
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spent an hour at the sticks tonight cause if I'm not careful I'll be flying sooner than expected what with all this strange weather.

progress was to glue a few sticks together to get the elevator halves ready for tubes and pins,i really like the shape of having an airfoil look ,but the rib cap wood seemed very soft so i may sheet the elevators using 1/32 balsa sheeting,and beefing up the tube mounts a little for comfort during stress flights. i build light to fly,not strong to crash.....but additional strength at minimal weight gain is fine by me.

best part is left till to do last ,the fuse!! heres where the motor,esc,battery,rx,servos,control rods ...ect...ect...all come into play for proper cg and no added weight. this is where the instructions get looked over and put aside to reinvent the bot's guts...lol.


just a few pictures to see the horizontals that still need alot more to complete,they're just fresh off the wax paper...
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:05 AM
  #29  
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That's a great looking BT. I have always loved that plane and am thinking of getting one myself. If I do, it will be the kit, not the ARF as I love to build.

On the spoilers, I always put them on even if they are not called for in the plans. They are super simple to do the way I do it and makes for a great landing. I have mine set on a side slider and can control the full travel and not just pop up spoilers. Mine go to 90 degs and are great for stopping the glider and bringing it down fast. I can land within 10 feet every time and that makes landings a non event.

My servo acts directly on the spoiler and no linkage is involved, so it is very easy to set up. The magnet touches the wire and holds it very well without it popping open on it's own. The wire is nothing more then a 1 inch piece of paper clip and epoxy it to the spoiler right over the magnet. I also cover the bottom of the spoiler. Hope this helps a little if you plan on installing spoilers. If you need any pictures let me know and I will try and up load them.

Ed
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:09 PM
  #30  
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Ed,you've just motivated me to stop sipping on coffee,eating donuts and chatting with my wife to get down to the shop and start building. strange how I've never built a tail section like the bot before and i keep checking other build threads to make sure what I'm doing is right.

so it off to build and get this dang laptop off the lap,also gotta push all the sleeping puppies around me off my lap and sitting area on the couch,they like to stay close when I'm typing and insist on doing spell check before i hit the summit post button.
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Old 03-10-2012, 04:31 PM
  #31  
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Default Spoiler!

[QUOTE=mred;86068

My servo acts directly on the spoiler and no linkage is involved, so it is very easy to set up. The magnet touches the wire and holds it very well without it popping open on it's own. The wire is nothing more then a 1 inch piece of paper clip and epoxy it to the spoiler right over the magnet. I also cover the bottom of the spoiler. Hope this helps a little if you plan on installing spoilers. If you need any pictures let me know and I will try and up load them.

Ed[/QUOTE]

mred.

If you have the time, I would be interested in seeing your setup?

I have used the Dacron string & tubing setup with good results. But I think a direct linkage would be better! I guess the magnet would reduce
flutter to zero?

Stuart!
BTW Nice job on the BOT! Thanks for the thread!!!
I hope you are back to 100% by now!!

Regards
Jimmy
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:39 AM
  #32  
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thanks jimmy,I'm healing right quick,and the doc and my dear wife are saying to slow it down with the lifting. rule for after stitch's are removed is no lifting more than 10 lbs with the left arm,and don't raise it over my head....dooooh,i fail on all counts. it's going to be a quick heal.

now as far as those spoilers go,i to would like to see a picture of the servo/magnet/paper clip setup.sounds functional and i would also set up a slide control on the TX to vary the height or speed which the spoilers operate. i don't want a switch up air brake. in fact I'm still not sold on bothering with spoilers since as stated before ,i can always go round and try again.

today i worked on the fin/rudder and took a few pictures. must say I'm not to worried about tail heavy if you look at the components going in the nose. the motor will spin a 10x6 folding prop and require the fuse nose area to be modified . the alt idea is to order a inrunner,but heck,i got this same motor in a 72"ws skimmer and a 3dhs 42"aj slick and both rocket vertical with a 3cell 2200 20c zippy on a 40 amp turnigy esc.[i may choose to p/u a hobbywing or something from headsuprc since i don't want to Wait for a turnigy plush which i tend to trust very much. i do have a few "mystery" brand esc's for cheap models.....but the bot isn't going in that direction. the turnigy motor is a great motor and i am amazed at how well IT runS in those other two birds i have it in.

i am working out the details for the front fuse layout and will be building up baalsa to be shaped round for the look of a smooth transition from ep to glider.

i have still got to see exactly how the 2 wing halves stay joined together where the steel rod goes in and then how the rubber bands mount. most threads on the bot are 3 pc wing bolted down.....i wouldn't even care if i made the wing 1 pc and bolted it down....just kidding

here photos for the interested folks....last 2 are skimmer installation of this same motor.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:00 AM
  #33  
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OK, if I did this right, you should get a picture of the servo installation in my Chrysalis wing. The servo I am using is a 22oz servo and the magnet holds it closed just fine. I have never seen any problems with this installation and the servo stays in place until I call for them.

As for going around if you are long, why??? Spoilers are so simple to put on there is no longer an excuse to not have them and if you are flying in any kind of contest, you can't just go around. I can land within 10 feet my my feet almost every time and the few times I do not, it is never more then 20 feet away. You can hit that ribbon every time.

I install my servos using two channels so I can tune them and get them working right. In fact, the hardest part of putting spoilers in the glider is setting up the throws and zero so they both work together and open the same amount. I have them on a side slider and they are fantastic to say the least. Since putting these in, I wouldn't have a glider again that didn't have spoilers installed. Using a direct drive like this, there is no linkage to fuss with and that setup with string is a real pain. Just make sure the spoilers are covered top and bottom and both sides so they do not warp.

If you need any more pictures let me know and I will be glad to put some up.

Ed
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:09 AM
  #34  
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Here is a close up of the servo and magnet. The wire is touching the magnet when closed and I have not had any problems with it not coming open. It does however keep them closed until I open them. They work great and I love them. Like I said, I wouldn't have a glider without them now.

Ed
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:33 AM
  #35  
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thanks for the pictures ed,what closes to spoilers. the flow of air on them,or rubber bands and then the magnet takes over for holding them closed.

if you don't mind me asking,do you have the servos set to side levers on your TX like i have on my optic six hitec TX. is that why the concern they open equally and at the same time? i read in one thread of a single servo opening and results were devastating to say the least. i would want to investigate if the to servos would work on one of the side levers,I'd use the direct arm swing of the servo to open the doors and a rubber band to pull down pressure so i can be sure if i want the spoilers to close ,one wouldn't hangup for even a second. i have 0 planes to enter any soaring contest or overly change my style of landing so my planes stop forward movement in front of my flight line stand and center of the field which isn't that wide to begin with. often the skimmer will soar on past and i go around for the better landing and less of a walk...lol[i do take the walk often]

I'm going to google a search for kit built bot pictures. i did this for the Sig hog bipe and found a site with around 50 pigs...a great find when considering covering.

thanks again for the pictures,stu
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:34 AM
  #36  
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Thanks for the pics Stu. I'm still following along and enjoying the build.

I have seen a couple of home built rudders that had the control arm directly epoxied to the control surface.
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:24 PM
  #37  
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thanks john,i saw the plywood horn also on the plans and will swap it out for plastic,mostly so when the control rod pokes throught the fuse i can mount it in perfect alignement.

i read folks run tape between the 2pc wing center so the rubber bands don't slip inbetween the wings ....this seems lame to me and the piano wire stablizers to prevert dislodging of wing loction on landings also bugs me a bit,as well as the slop in the joiner rod to arrow shaft. these are just a few things i'll address going foward. another issue with adding weight to bring the bot up to 60 oz auw is going to be easyer to accomplish as i now plane to build a nose cone motor housing and extending the fuse a few inchs.

well,it sunday and i love to go to the chapel, it's a favorite place to go every sunday,then some building later.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:14 PM
  #38  
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The spoilers will close on their own account simply by the weight of the spoiler. The way mine are hinged, they close sitting on the bench with nothing to help. I use a piece of aileron stock for them and there is a notch in the ribs that match the shape of the spoiler. With them laying on the wing in this notch, they are in their normal closed position and even with the top of the wing. I push the spoiler forward so that it makes contact with the spar and hold it in place while I put tape on the hinge line. The spoilers have enough free space around them so that they do not touch anything except on the front at the hinge, so they are free to fall when the servo closes. There is nothing to catch on so there is no problem with them hanging up and sticking open. When flying, the air pressure will assist them in closing, so there is no need to put anything on them to aid in closing.

As for programing for spoilers, that will depend on your transmitter as to how you can program them in. I have a JR 9303 and an Airtronics SD-10G and both of these radios will allow me to put the spoilers on a side slider, but not all transmitters will. That is why I recommend to to new people to get the most transmitter they can possibly afford when they get another radio system after the starter set. It is not the number of channels you are looking for, but the programing power of these transmitters that you need.

You want the spoilers to open the same amount so that they do not act as ailerons and to get them to start opening at the same time. I had to adjust the end points and zero offset to get both of them working together and by the same amount. It's not hard to do, but you do need a mix along with these adjustments to make them work properly. You also need to put this mix on the slider you want instead of where the transmitter will want to put them. With the 9303, you cannot use the glider mode, or the transmitter will put the spoilers on the throttle stick instead of throttle and it will make some defaults that I don't like. I use airplane for this programing so that I can put the throttle on the left stick and spoilers on the side slider. This is one of the things I hate about JR. I want to put things where I want them, not some programers idea of how things should work. My SD-10G will allow me to put anything anywhere I want them and all of the switches are triple throw instead of double throw like a lot of transmitters and this gives me more possibilities then just two way switches.

The most important thing is to make sure that you have a good opening around the spoiler and that you allow for the covering when doing this. That will make sure that you do not touch anything as the spoiler moves and does not hang up anywhere. I have about a 1/32" clearance around my spoilers and that works great. The servo has 22oz of torque and that seems to be plenty for this application and I have about 500 flights so far and they are still working great, so it looks like they will hold up for quite some time. They are also rather small servos since that wing is very thin. They are 22X16X8mm so they are rather light too. They add less then an ounce of weight so they really don't hurt you much and in a 2M glider, every little bit helps.

On a flat plate spoiler, they should pretty much work the same way since the weight of the magnet will try and close the spoiler when the servo moves and the wind will blow them closed while flying, so you shouldn't need anything to assist them closing. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask.

Ed
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:33 PM
  #39  
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Default Spoilers!

Originally Posted by mred View Post
Here is a close up of the servo and magnet. The wire is touching the magnet when closed and I have not had any problems with it not coming open. It does however keep them closed until I open them. They work great and I love them. Like I said, I wouldn't have a glider without them now.

Ed
Mred.

Thanks for the pics!

Jimmy
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:47 PM
  #40  
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On the remark about contest flying. I didn't mean that they were only good for contest work, but that you can land them consistently at your feet or very close almost every time with spoilers. Granted that with a motor you can always go around and try again, but that still does not mean that you will make it even then. If you like walking to pick up your glider, then you can fly without them, or get good enough to not need them, but they sure do help in landing right next to your feet. I have only entered one contest and that was more of a fun fly then a contest, but it is fun and there you MUST land on the ribbon to score points. With an electric plane, you can't make a spear landing like they do with pure sailplanes, so you need all the help you can get on landing. They also make it so much easier to come down out of a thermal without worrying about over stressing the wing and watching it make a dart out of the fuselage when the wing folds. They will make the nose drop when they open, so you need to be ready for that, or put a mix in to help. This is another area where the bigger transmitters help. A smaller transmitter would not allow you to make all these mixes and it sure is nice to have that ability, even if you don't always need it. They are there for the times that you do need it.

Sorry to keep harping on getting the right transmitter, but so few people think far enough ahead when getting a new transmitter. They go from a simple transmitter like they get with a plug and play to something like a DX 6i and that transmitter will not give you the programing power you may need later for something like this. Just setting up spoilers right is very hard or impossible on these transmitters and then they are disappointed because the new transmitter they just bought is not good enough for what they are trying to do.

Ed
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:24 PM
  #41  
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well,I'm back and enjoying the talk going on here,in fact i guess it's time to inform everyone that the spoilers will be installed ,every thread ever written on the bot says by the author"i wish i had put spoilers on"....lol.

and they are so easy to do.

I've also decided to use a simple plywood mount for screws on each wing half bottom to use an "o" ring to hold the wings together,they will be inside the fuse out of site. then a strip of electrical tape on the top center of the wing when joined together to assist in keeping the rubber bands on top of the wing and not caught in between them.it will relase very easily.

i also plan on building the motor housing today to be fitted to the fuse as a unit. I'm thinking the purpose of the motor is for climbing reasons only ,so 0 down,0 right thrust for now.if i have to shim it later with washers i can. placed the order for the 40amp turnigy plush esc,and an 80 amp plush esc to replace the 85 amp that failed in the RV 4 40 thats also in my Sig cobra. anyone want to buy an 85amp esc with 5ampbec.[jk]I'll toss it in the junk drawer.i can test the setup with the mestery 50 amp esc ,but not going to trust this bird of time wihth junk so to be renamed" short life bird of time'

so thanks for staying with me here ed,i am listening...lol..and now going to build some more.. it's a beautiful day with gusty winds so that solves the delema of where to be today.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:56 PM
  #42  
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The Bird of Time is one of those gliders that I love and have been meaning to build for quite some time, just haven't gotten around to it yet. One draw back is that thing just doesn't want to quit flying, especially in ground effect. Also what we take for granted today didn't even exist when this bird was designed, so spoilers were much harder to get right back then.

Take it easy on the stitches and hope you heal real fast. Do what the doctor says too. Ripping a stitch out is not fun and it hurts too. I thought I was being easy on mine until I ripped one out and it let me know right fast that I did something dumb. Take care and take it easy, at least until the stitches come out.

Ed
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:24 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by mred View Post
The Bird of Time is one of those gliders that I love and have been meaning to build for quite some time, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

Ed
Mred.

Me too!

I like what SunDevilPilot did using a fiberglass fuse in his build thread!!!!

I may try that, but will still build the rest from a kit! I just love
to build!!!!!!!!

Jimmy
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:44 AM
  #44  
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i just love to hangout in the shop tinkering away. today set the formers and glued the sides on the bottom blocks of the fuse. i have set the balsa blocks at the motor mount so i can shape the nose of the fuse rounded the way it should look,but also needed to work a little extra space for the motor and space to clear the 3 motor wires clear of the spinning motor bell inside the fuse. the push rods are threaded in the fuse and i have to pull everything together and generally place it into position so i can adjust for cg. it also one of my favorite part of building. my hope is after all component's are in,no added lead weight. of coarse theres a lot of balsa to be sanded off to get the bot shape....may just do that outside when the time arrives.

just a couple of pictures, note:the motor mount plywood is at a neutral 90 degree to the bottom of the fuse blocks and i used a 2ft framing sq to check the direction of the mount so to hold neutral on the right thrust also. i am glad the the open fuse top hatch will be fantastic for feeding the motor/esc/battery into the front area. i know i could squeeze in a standard servo ,but may switch to the 2 micro emax metal gear servos i got for another project.

unfortunately i have to take a 40 min ride in one direction just to p/u more ca,man i go thru it quick.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:46 AM
  #45  
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Stuart; Why don't you just order some on the net and get 2 or 3 bottles and save the money for that high priced gas that will more then likely pay for a good bit of the order. Then at least you will have some on hand. I don't use much CA as my body lets me know it every time I do use it. I would much rather use a good wood glue instead. I love building the fuselage and can work on them all day long, but I hate wings. The only reason I build them is because it is kind of hard to fly without them. I have three fuselages sitting around my shop waiting for wings to be built for them. Your BOT is looking good. That motor should pull it up a a pretty good rate.

Ed
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:15 PM
  #46  
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your so right ed,ordering on line would be better,but i always want it asap and don't want it hanging around for months when I'm not building. i like the great planes brand ca,and always have a small fan blowing over my work when gluing. helps keep the fumes away.. it really a small heater with fan,low fan heat,high fan heat. it has hardly any force at all so my work doesn't get blown around.

kinda wish work didn't make me so tired...i really do want to work on the bot.....but gotta eat dinner first and then resting up for tomorrows work seems to be the pattern.

your a good motivator!!
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Old 03-16-2012, 04:57 AM
  #47  
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looked like i wasn't going to put any time in the bot today,but around 8pm i spent some time on it. the things set up tonight which took time were the pins and sleeves for the elevator. finished sheeting it and gave the halves a rough sand/shaping. they came out straight and solid,so i can't expect to accomplish to much more. although i also got the linkage set in the fuse for the elevator/rudder assembly and cut the slots for the rudders ca hings. loved hanging out listening to the radio while tooling away. next will be to mark and cut the slot for the linkage connection,perhaps this weekend ...unless of coarse i get flying weather.[that takes precedence over building]

just a few pictures of tonights progress,
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Old 03-16-2012, 01:32 PM
  #48  
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Stuart

Looking good!!

Jimmy
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:27 PM
  #49  
tobydogs
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thanks jim,looks like fair weather for saturday!!!i desperately need to get stick time or whats the use of building if the birds don't fly.

very next thing i do is plug in the tx charger,and rx battery in the uproar. then it's 3sets of 4cells for the roar,at least 4 or 5 3cells for the slick...and a few small 3 cells for the parkjet #1 which isn't very fast but hopefully will warm up the thumbs for faster flights.
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Old 03-16-2012, 11:10 PM
  #50  
gramps2361
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Stuart the plane is coming along great. I have been lurking along admiring the progress that you are making with this graceful looking glider.
From the looks of the weather forecast this glider is going to be lonely this weekend.
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