Hi-Performance and Sailplanes RC hotliners, electric pylon racers, F5B, F5D, sailplanes and gliders

Slipso 400 Build Thread

Old 02-19-2010, 05:58 PM
  #1  
Sky Sharkster
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Default Slipso 400 Build Thread

Hello All Speed Fans!
This will be a build thread for the Paul Daniels Slipso 400 pylon racer. Originally designed around a brushed "400" can and 7-cell NiMH or NiCad pack, this model has seen many upgrades, including direct-drive brushless and LiPo power. It is very similar to the Sokol composite pylon racer widely available.
This is an all-balsa kit available from Mountain Models/Laser Arts. It is the version I'll be building.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/produc...ac32f911f066a4
There are links to other build threads from the MM/LA site.
In the "Giddy-Up" department will be a Pulso 2212-12 brushless outrunner.
http://pulsosystem.com/motor/2212.html
This is a high-Kv "400" sized motor that I received during their free testing promotion last year, "Free" excluding the $17.00 shipping. Still a very good deal for a motor that sells for $44.00 and has yet to be discounted.
I ran some tests with an AstroFlight Wattmeter here;
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...t=49823&page=4
Posts # 77, 79, 83, 92. On 3s LiPo the numbers were scary-fast, 218-240 watts, RPM's 17,000 to over 19,000 on 6" x 4", 6.5" x 5" to 7" x 4" props.
Which should easily put me in the 100 mph club, assuming I land in one piece.
But first the model must be built and flown. Here's the start;
Kit as received, including multi-page booklet with many color photos.
Dry-fitting the wing assembly. Unshaped parts weigh 61.5 grams, 2.1 ounces. This is 1/4" medium-light balsa.
Gluing the wing parts together. This is Titebond in a SIGbond refillable bottle, nice small nozzle. In addition to the recommended weights I pinned the outsides of the framework, squeezing the glue joints together.
While the wing is drying, I moved to the fuselage construction, out of sequence. These parts nearly fell out of the laser-cutting, a slight chop of the blade to remove each piece. The formers are conventional "Balsa-Ply" construction, that is, 3 pieces of balsa with the middle layer cross-grain.
Again, weighted down, I knew I saved those NiMH packs for a purpose!
Size comparison of a "Speed" brushed 400 and the Pulso 2212-12. The can diameters are similar but the motor mount may take some modification to the nose. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
The model will be fully F/G clothed and finished with either F/G resin or Minwax Poly. I also expect to reinforce the wing with carbon tow.
Ron
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Old 02-19-2010, 07:55 PM
  #2  
MustangMan
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I started one of these a year ago but got side-tracked and never finished it. My build is very similar but using Elmer's Carpenter's glue.

I have a Turnigy 2836 3200 Kv motor waiting to go into mine. During some initial testing I had the motor mounted in the front of the fuselage and during one motor run-up with a prop mounted the motor mount former pulled out of the fuselage. I'm planning to add a little carbon tow to help strengthen that area once I finish the shaping of the fuselage.

I'll be very interested to see how your's comes together.
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:49 PM
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Default Fuselage Work

Hi Richard, Welcome to the thread!
Thanks for the warning about the motor mount, I'll be sure to reinforce mine well. I stuck the sides and 2 main formers together with rubber bands to see if the Pulso came close to fitting. Suprise! Slides right in. The triangle stock is going to reduce the space some, but it looks like it will work out. I'll fabricate a rear-mount for the cruciform from 1/16" ply and fit it after the glue dries on the next step-see photos.
Glued 2 main formers in, these took a little sanding to fit into their slots as they were slightly too snug. Used my new box clamps, very handy!
Weight of Pulso motor with leads, connectors, prop adaptor; 68 grams.
Weight of Speed 400, no leads, connectors or adaptor; 72.4 grams.
So far, so good.
Ron
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Old 02-19-2010, 10:13 PM
  #4  
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Subscribed!!
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Old 02-20-2010, 03:17 AM
  #5  
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Default Shaping The Wing, Pt. 1

Hi Jimmy, Welcome aboard!
Here's the start of the wing shaping, surely the single most important step in a solid wing model.
Having carved and finished many Free Flight Hand launch gliders in the past helps a lot here, but there's some basic tips that can make it easier even if it's a new skill.
Mark the part to be shaped clearly. As you sand/plane the marks off, keep renewing them until the final sanding.
Use a sharp and well-adjusted razor plane and lots of NEW sandpaper. 120 grit for coarse work, down to #200, then #400 and finally, #800.
Use only a sanding block for the coarse paper. If you hand-hold rough sandpaper, you will ALWAYS gouge the wood, ruining the piece.
Visualize the shape you're creating as a cross-section, an airfoil. In this case it's flat on the bottom, the upper shape is a long oval for the front and nearly straight taper from the high point (about 1/3 back from the leading edge) to the trailing edge. The T.E. will only be carved down to about 3/32" for now, later it will get a sharper edge.
First, the bottom is sanded flat.
Next, the peak (high point) of the front curve and rear taper are marked on the wing upper surface. I've also driven pins through the wing at a few spots to mark the aileron location.
Plane a rough curve from the front high-point to the leading edge. Leave the L.E. about 1/8" thick, not a sharp point.
Plane the rear taper from the mark to the trailing edge. Leave the T.E. 3/32" thick at this point.
I've placed straight-edges along the flat part of the airfoil to show the progress.
Sanded the rear taper, the straight-edges show the shape clearly. I normally slide the ruler along the wing several times as it's shaped. Makes it easy to spot irregularities.
Rear taper sanded.
Now, on to to the front shaping!
Ron
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Old 02-20-2010, 03:40 AM
  #6  
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Default Wing Shaping, Pt. 2

Moving along, here's the front shape of the airfoil, a shallow curve from the high point down to a 1/8" tall L.E. This is done with #120 paper on a block. Sanding the trailing edge clogged the paper, so I've replaced it.
Wing weight at this point 48 grams.
Ron
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:10 AM
  #7  
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Ron,
As usual, yours is another top-notch build thread. I'm always awed by your creativity and attention to detail. It's obvious you're a consummate builder and that leads me to ask this question; What does one do if he's obsessed with building but has no more room to store his ob jets d'art?
I used to crash planes at a rate similar to my build rate so my inventory stayed fairly balanced through attrition. But my crash rates have gone down lately and my build rates up so I now face a dilemma. I almost wish for a crash so I can repair or rebuild.
If we were doing oil paintings or woodworking projects we could always make gifts of our excess production. But that doesn't work so well with planes.
Seriously, how do you manage this?

Last edited by Ribcracker; 02-20-2010 at 04:32 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:22 AM
  #8  
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Default Too Many Planes?

Hi Bud,
Thanks for the kind words, I'm just an unrepentant balsa chopper!
But you're right, if you don't crash as much, the inventory keeps growing.
My last few planes were Micros, that helps some.
The larger models are a problem, luckily the Sailplanes all have removeable and/or 2-piece wings. They can be stored easily.
But, like you, I'm just about out of space. And models that don't break down (disassemble) just don't fit anywhere.
A bigger house? Storage shed? Park the car outside and use the garage?
There are plans somewhere on W/F for storage racks, these might be the next step.
Keep Building!
Ron
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Old 02-20-2010, 02:38 PM
  #9  
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Default Fuselage, Wing work

A bit more work on the model; Once the wing was rough-shaped, I decided to add a "bumper" to the leading edge. It's been my experience that balsa L.E.'s tend to get chipped up, especially on a model with no landing gear. Perhaps if I always landed on nice, soft grass this might not be the case, but the outer perimeters of the landing field aren't exactly a golf course. More like an obstacle course!
So I CA'ed a 1/16" x 1/8" (tall) basswood strip to the flat part of the L.E. Most of this will be sanded off when I shape the final airfoil.
Then, the fuselage. I added the front former, on a front-mounted motor this would be the motor mount.
Once that was in place, next came the bottom triangle stock, this was a three-handed job, sort of like herding cats. But eventually I got it lined up and CA'ed in place. I had to hold the piece flush against the sides, watching the depth and notches, slowly gluing section by section.
Last, the bottom rear sheet, it took a bit of squeezing and shaping to align but lots of clamps helped. I used Titebond for this.
Ron
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:50 PM
  #10  
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Default More Wing Work

Here's the fine-sanding of the wing, #200 then #400 paper. Since it's difficult to show an airfoil in 2D photos, I've placed several straight edges along the 1/2 span. Hope it helps!
Then I applied the 5mm carbon tow to the bottom. Starting at the middle, using CA and a plastic bag over my finger, just wicked the adhesive through the C/F strands and smoothed it out.
After gluing, a quick wisk with #200 sandpaper on the tow (sometimes called carbon fiber ribbon) to even out the high spots.
C/F tow is readily available. For suppliers, go here and scroll to "Composites, Suppliers".
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14117
Ready for those high-speed turns!
Ron
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Old 02-20-2010, 07:30 PM
  #11  
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Default Motor Mount

The next step in the fuselage construction is to add the entire bottom sheeting; But since I'm using a different motor, I only added the sheeting up to the battery location. The front/bottom sheet will have to wait until I fabricate a motor mount.
The propshaft hole in the original front bulkhead isn't large enough for the adaptor on the Pulso. It needs to be 18mm diameter, about the same as the outer cooling holes. Now, I could just stick a # 11 blade in there and whittle it out, possibly avoiding a stuck thumb or perforated digit in the process. In any event, that's a quick and dirty solution.
Here's another one. It's called "The right tool for the job", in this case, a micro keyhole saw blade. As you can see, I like tools, particularly when they solve a problem, even a potential one. No stab wounds!
Another specialized (!) tool, a Sharpie wrapped with sandpaper to clean up the hole.
Putting the motor in place shows that the bottom triangle stock must be relieved slightly to clear the ends of the "X" mount. A couple of slices and a shallow grove is made.
A mock firewall from balsa is made to provide an easy-to-shape pattern.
Mock firewall completed and motor.
I'll transfer the firewall pattern to 1/16" birch ply and glue it in next.
Ron
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Old 02-21-2010, 03:02 AM
  #12  
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Default Tight Squeeze, Pts. 1 + 2

Hello Everyone.
Here I've transfered the balsa motor mount pattern to 3/32" ply. After cutting out the ply mount and trial-fitting it to the nose, I discovered that the motor leads had no room. They stick up well above the top sheeting line.
So, I cut a shallow groove into the top/middle of the mount and will have the leads stick up out of the hatch. Into the slipstream? Never! I'll put a small canopy over the leads; maybe a pilot figure, too. A brave, hardy but foolish fellow. Great visibility, though.
Tight squeeze Pt. 2. The 1800mAH 3S 20C LiPos don't come close to fitting under the wing. I marked the area to be removed, cut it away with the keyhole saw and finished sanding with an emery board.
Last two photos are the LiPo in place.
On to the elevator servo!
Ron
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:11 AM
  #13  
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I think I'll have to subsrcibe to this thread .I have started my modified "Little Angel" pylon racer.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:50 PM
  #14  
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Default More Pylon Racers?

Hello Huffy, Welcome to the thread!
I don't know how much of this build will be applicable to your model, but I hope it helps. One think I can suggest is to lay every component out carefully before you commit to cutting and gluing. There is absolutely no extra room here, it's all a tight squeeze.
And it won't be a model that you can skimp on quality hardware or want to use "bargain" parts on. These are capable of some serious speeds, G forces and handling, little missles that must be treated with respect.
But, the fun factor is so high, it's worth it!
Ron
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Old 02-22-2010, 02:34 PM
  #15  
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I have almost come to the stage where I need to get the motor/battery/etc .
I've only cut the wing parts out and built half the ailerons.
I changed the straight wing's to tapered and changed the airfoil profile to a NACA n63x012 6 digit airfoil using Compufoil 3D.
I've change the aileron construction from soild stock to what I think is called "Fraser" aileron. It may have been a bad idea because it made it more complex to build.
I've also add a second spar at the rear!
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Old 02-22-2010, 03:54 PM
  #16  
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Default Motor Mount, Elevator Servo, Tail

Hi Huffy,
Reinforcing the wing sounds like a good idea, the forces in a high-speed turn are enormous. I've never heard of Fraser ailerons, the closest I can guess are Fowler flaps. These are flaps mounted on an articulated hinge so that they move rearward as they're deployed. This increases the area and effectiveness, but also the drag. There's drawings here, scroll down the page;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flap_(aircraft)
The most famous early use of these was on the P-38 Lightning from WWII.
I could be way off here, if so, Sorry! There's another type of aileron hinge that is inset, that is a concave channel in the wing trailing edge and a convex shape to the aileron leading edge that fits tightly, leaving little or no gap when it's deflected. These are often seen on high-end fully moulded composite gliders and Hotliners. Is that the type you're referring to?
On to the Slipso, I ran into a problem with the modified motor mount, by using the rear "X" mount, I realized that once the motor was "In", there was no way to get it out! The rear shaft extends back through the mount so the motor can't be lifted straight up. The choices were to (A) Grind off the shaft. (B) Make a slot in the middle of the ply mount from the middle up to the top (C) Re-design the mount, using a front-mount system.
I went with "C".
But the supplied ply mount won't work with this motor. The (former) cooling slots are too large to hold the motor screws, see first photo.
So, a new 1/8" ply mount will be made.
Next, the elevator servo. I wrapped the servo in tape, mixed a tiny bit of epoxy and coated the rear of the bulkhead. This is so the double-sided servo tape will adhere to the balsa. Once the epoxy was on the wood, I placed a poly sheet over it as it hardened. This makes the epoxy surface very smooth, ideal for the tape.
Last, a little "Belt + braces" for the tail surfaces, I glued basswood strips to the leading edge of each. I guess it's overkill and possibly dead weight, but the thin surfaces can sometimes suffer "Flutter" at high speed and this may help. Also should contain the chipping from ground stubble.
Here's the photos;
Ron
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Old 02-23-2010, 01:09 AM
  #17  
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Sorry ,I spelt the name wrong, that's what you get when your going back and forth watching the Winter Olympic's.
I got a book out called "Model aircraft design", Modified Frise Aileron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frise_a...Frise_Ailerons.
The action is much like you explained in you last post but there all straight surface's on the aileron. When the aileron point downward the front tucks into a groove cut in the wing. It also can be mass balanced on the front of the aileron.
I heard of a different way to glue servo's in place .Instead of tape ,you get a piece of heatshrink that fit's over the servo, shrink it and glue it in.
When you need to remove it you just cut the heatshrink and it comes out easily.
Looks like you need some un-countersunk screws and some washers on the engine mount.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:08 AM
  #18  
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Default Ailerons, motor mount

Hi Huffy,
I've heard of Frise Ailerons, but never seen them in model use. Do you use a wire pivot that sets back behind the aileron/wing separation? I'd be interested in seeing photos or drawings.
You're right, washers and flat-shoulder screws would allow the use of the kit firewall. The reason I wanted to use the countersunk ones is it allows a closer fit between spinner and nose.
The heat-shrink around the servos is a good idea. i don't have any that large, will look into getting some. Thanks for the tip!
I went ahead and finished the new firewall, here's photos.
Ron
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Old 02-23-2010, 03:00 AM
  #19  
Sky Sharkster
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Default Motor Mount, Tail Work

Here's the attachment of the firewall to the nose. First I mixed a small batch of 30 minute epoxy, then added microballoons. A toothpick was used to put a light coat of epoxy on the inside mating surfaces of the nose. Then I slid the motor mount into place and made a small fillet of epoxy around the inside of the joint. The entire nose was wrapped in poly sheet and clamped tight.
Also, the stabilizer and rudder have been rough-sanded to even out the basswood strips.
Ron
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Old 02-23-2010, 04:22 AM
  #20  
Huffy01
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Default frise aileron

Here is the diagram that I used to build the ailerons.
Inspiration got the better of me this morning so I built part of the wing so I put so photo's of what I have done so far.
After cutting out the airfoils I did think that may be it would be difficult because each wing is 500mm long ,40% of that length is used for ailerons.
Tip chord is 120mm and the root chord is 200mm. I think I used 25% of the chord for the width of the aileron.
I'll either use tape or covering film for the hinging method.
The guy who wrote the book built most of his plane around 60 in I think that's about 2 metres so It would be easier to design/build.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:30 PM
  #21  
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Default Motor Mount, Elevator

Hi Huffy,
That's an interesting aileron set-up, keep us posted on how it works out!
Got a little work done on the fuselage. I put the tri-stock onto the top of the nose. The firewall seems very secure now, but will reinforce with F/G cloth when I finish the model.
And the elevator servo is installed, this is a 9 gram digital. It took a bit of fitting and adjustment to make sure the servo control horn doesn't hit the bulkhead at full deflection. On this model, that movement would be full "Down" elevator, which I don't expect to be using much! Still reduced the servo travel (with Tx) to make sure. After servo and pushrod were in place I added the rear upper triangle stock. Placed a scrap of balsa behind the servo in addition to the servo tape forward. Belt + Braces!
Now it's ready for the top sheeting and fuselage shaping.
Ron
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:17 PM
  #22  
dghutt
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Ron -- great build log. I wanted to post just to let you know there are likely lots of subscribers watching your work with interest. Maybe one of these days I'll work up the nerve to start the Slipso400 in my shop, still in its Mountain Models plastic! I have a KB20-40L-20L 2900kv inrunner for it, which I hope will allow me to avoid some of the contortions you're running into with the big outrunner.

Have you already settled on an aileron linkage set-up? I'm very interested in that part of the build. Personally I'd like to try something that allows the aileron servos to be wing-mounted and entirely inside the fuselage, out of the slipstream, using torque rods. Yes, I like to make things harder on myself. Would be easier, though, if I could convince you to be the guinea pig and try it first...!

Excellent job so far. Thanks for logging this build for us.

Dave
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Old 02-23-2010, 07:06 PM
  #23  
riverrat
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Default Inrunner!!

[QUOTE=dghutt;695447]Ron -- great build log. I wanted to post just to let you know there are likely lots of subscribers watching your work with interest. Maybe one of these days I'll work up the nerve to start the Slipso400 in my shop, still in its Mountain Models plastic! I have a KB20-40L-20L 2900kv inrunner for it, which I hope will allow me to avoid some of the contortions you're running into with the big outrunner.

Dave!

You are right! It's an inrunner on my next build. I don't care if an outrunner is mounted before or after the firewall, there is a problem that you have to jump thru hoops & compromise!!! To get it mounted in a tight place!!!!!!!!!!!!! I always choose the biggest motor I can get in, maybe thats where I am going wrong!!

Ron's a master builder & he will get it right!!!

Regards
Jimmy
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Old 02-23-2010, 08:28 PM
  #24  
Sky Sharkster
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Default Inrunner, Torque Rods

Hello Dave, Welcome to the thread!
That's a good-looking H/C motor, the numbers appear to be perfect for this model. If I had an inrunner that was right for the Slipso, it would be a much easier installation. The only one I have that's close is a Hacker B20-15L, but it's hooked up to a Maxon 4:1 gearbox and I need it for LMR Glider.
I intend to use a pretty standard torque-rod set-up, one digital servo buried in the wing center, all internal. It will be similar to the ACE Simple 400 shown in the photos.
The Slipso is very easy to put together, it's just the modification for the motor that's taking time. Break open that package and get building! LOL!
Hi Jimmy, good to hear from you, thanks for the kind words. It's coming together, but you're right about outrunners, they present different problems mounting. I'll figure it out!
Ron
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Old 02-24-2010, 01:14 PM
  #25  
Huffy01
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Does you "Slipso 400" have a working rudder?
I was just reading about "The aileron servo set up" and thinking of another problem I'd have with my setup.
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