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Do you use aileron-rudder mixing?

Old 07-10-2011, 09:15 PM
  #26  
rcers
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
When you program the ail-rud mix, it will add rudder automatically when you make an ail input, but rudder inputs will not affect the ailerons.
Correct you don't want to mix rudder to aileron.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:17 PM
  #27  
pd1
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Come on .... please ....... the guy is going from 3ch to 4ch and is concerned that he has used rudder as primary turn control and will now use aileron. He has no left stick experience to use rudder alone !
He really doesn't need this reply about a FEW models that are aerodynamically adverse ........... I doubt very much he will be buying such a model ! In fact I have trouble trying to think of any model that needs such setting up apart from some awful WW1 Biplanes ... yes I've had one !!

With greatest respect - can people answer in relation directly to original post ?
1. Read the question. He asked if he should use opposite rudder in a turn. I said turn the rudder the same way as the bank.

2. Where did I say to use rudder alone?
I said use both sticks together for a turn.

3. If you've never had a plane with adverse yaw, good for you.
I didn't say his had adverse yaw, I just explained it so he knew why I said both sticks the same direction.

It's comments like yours that stop people from wanting to help anyone.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:43 PM
  #28  
CrimzonRider
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Originally Posted by safecub View Post
Very soon i will be making the jump from 3 chan to a 4 chan
now i use the rudder to turn on the ground but also now this is just me
if i need to turn left i will bank the plane left and have the right rudder on so it gives it a nice smooth turn is this right? or should i have the rudder the same way it is turning alone with the ailerons

IMVHO Having read some of his other posts, I think the OP is not talking about computer transmitters at all.
I take it as he is wanting to know whether or not to use manually "mixing" (simply moving both sticks at the same time, rudder and ailerons of different sticks) and what process it takes to fly correctly as was explained in post#7. Just me, I might be wrong, but the thread took a wrong turn after no.8
....and yes I do...

have a good one
cr
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:49 PM
  #29  
solentlife
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
While you are correct in a lot of what you said in your 2 posts, especially how this discussion is way over the level the OP requires, the quoted statement is incorrect, at least with the radio I am familiar with. When you program the ail-rud mix, it will add rudder automatically when you make an ail input, but rudder inputs will not affect the ailerons.

You're also right, we don't need to have the mix, but it's a convenience to help tame some difficult to fly models. That's what this hobby is all about, to each his own.
This is where the mix question comes in ... which way do you do it ... Aileron-Rudder or Rudder-Aileron.

I know having seen some branded radios that even that is not applicable ... that if you link the two in mixing you are stuck with it. My advise to anyone is to use the "Sticks" instead of mixing ... but that's based on years of stick twiddling and I can appreciate that many RC'rs now have only seen computer radios where mixes and AUX this .. AUX that ... are common place ... negating the need as I grew up with to look at the solution in terrms of mechanical.

I realise that at times I will knock heads with some who are most likely better flyers than me ..... but I look at radio set-up as basic ... zero trims, minimal mixing if sticks can do it, balance model etc. etc. I make no apology for this.
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:00 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Nitro Blast View Post
I have not ever used rudder/aileron mixing, but recently, in our pylon race series, I'm mixing some left rudder in with up elevator.

When racing, it keeps the nose down during the turn. Everyone else shoots up, and I'm still right level with the ground.

Sorry... off topic, but I wanted to tell SOMEONE who Im not racing against!




Steve, bro, even with the computer radiios, with a single servo, that is the way to go. You cant mess that simple setup up.
I was reasonably successful in Club 20 and Formula 40 Pylon Racing in 80's - 90's ... in fact I taught a UK Champ of Formula 40 to fly ...

We never had rudder control on those racers .......... it was aileron / elevator only ......... throttle was fixed wide open and invert to stop the fuel flow..... then flip upright and glide to land. IF the guy shoots up when he makes the turn then he's not truly knife-edge as he should be .... 50% of a pylon race is on knife edge if not more. Reason we didn't install rudder control ... simple - we didn't want the aerodynamic drag of a rudder deployed ... and designs of pylon racers such as RM racer ... Cotswold Midget Mustang etc. could hold knife edge for appreciable time WITHOUT rudder ........... of course these are old designs and hard to find now ...

Average lap times of 1min 10s for 10 laps for Club 20 .... 1min 05s for Formula 40.

Adrenaline ............ YEH !!

Last edited by solentlife; 07-10-2011 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:12 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by pd1 View Post
1. Read the question. He asked if he should use opposite rudder in a turn. I said turn the rudder the same way as the bank.

2. Where did I say to use rudder alone?
I said use both sticks together for a turn.

3. If you've never had a plane with adverse yaw, good for you.
I didn't say his had adverse yaw, I just explained it so he knew why I said both sticks the same direction.

It's comments like yours that stop people from wanting to help anyone.
In fact I want to HELP the OP. I am one of the worlds listeners and helpers ....... I READ the post and answer ... I don't go of into diatribes that only have merit with the author.

Sorry to OP ...

I am not a precision flyer ......... I do not do 3D ........ I have returned to a hobby that now seems to be pre-occupied with computer radios and experts on that ....
I fly to enjoy .. I come online with fellow RC'rs to ENJOY flying ... if you don't agree with my opinion - then be NICE about it .. explain so I can appreciate and study your difference, instead of the condemnation you spout .....

Again to original poster - you don't need mixing .... fly and enjoy ...
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:07 PM
  #32  
Nitro Blast
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I completely forgot the mixing I'm using in my BME Cap Maniac.
Honestly, it was the first plane where mixing was really helpful.

When I was first flying it, I tried to fly knife edge. On its side, the plane pulled hard to the wheels, and wanted to roll. This was verified with simple rudder input from straight and level flight. It would dive hard, and roll out.

An IMAC pilot showed me the light, and how to set it up so rudder input causes the aircraft to act like only rudder is being used. Rudder input from my hand acts as if only rudder is being operated, the mixing keeps the plane level, and solid at altitude when I crank in rudder.

(check the thread here)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59471

Once the rudder was mixed, on knife edge, it holds very nicely. It does not pull to the wheels, and the roll out tendancy is eliminated.


To the OP,. yes... I am using mixing on 1 plane. This is not to be confused with
Coordinated Turns, where the pilot is using both sticks and adding rudder in the turn.

You will find that many 'sport planes' are flown on just aileron/elevator and often many pilots forget to, or don't care to, use rudder in flight when available. Scale airplanes generally benefit from 'coordinated turns' where all surfaces are used in flight, it makes them need less aileron bank to turn. Coordinating turns is not 'mixing'. We may have gone the wrong direction with help not understanding your real question, let me know if this did not help

Learning on 3 channels and going to 4, as an instructor I would give this information and advice:

Rudder turns teach you to HOLD the rudder, to continue the turn. Sometimes you apply opposite rudder to get to level wing quicker ending the turn.
Aileron turns require you to only get the wing to the correct angle, and return the control stick to center. The wing will hold the bank angle, and you adding 'up elevator' causes the turn since the wing is on its side. After the turn you apply opposite aileron to return the wing to level flight.


Dont go to 4 channels expecting to hold ailerons in a turn. Holding aileron is for rolls, which you will thoroughly enjoy doing versus 3 ch!

Last edited by Nitro Blast; 07-11-2011 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:21 PM
  #33  
solentlife
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Originally Posted by Nitro Blast View Post
I completely forgot the mixing I'm using in my BME Cap Maniac.
Honestly, it was the first plane where mixing was really helpful.

When I was first flying it, I tried to fly knife edge. On its side, the plane pulled hard to the wheels, and wanted to roll. This was verified with simple rudder input from straight and level flight. It would dive hard, and roll out.

An IMAC pilot showed me the light, and how to set it up so rudder input causes the aircraft to act like only rudder is being used. Rudder input from my hand acts as if only rudder is being operated, the mixing keeps the plane level, and solid at altitude when I crank in rudder.

(check the thread here)
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59471

Once the rudder was mixed, on knife edge, it holds very nicely. It does not pull to the wheels, and the roll out tendancy is eliminated.


So, yes... I am using mixing on 1 plane. This is not to be confused with
Coordinated Turns, where the pilot is using both sticks and adding rudder in the turn.
Now THAT is a post / reply I can go along with and applaud.

Cheers
Nigel
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:22 AM
  #34  
safecub
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the guy is going from 3ch to 4ch and is concerned that he has used rudder as primary turn control and will now use aileron. He has no left stick experience to use rudder alone
u got it right there and i now understand with the above post from u
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