FAA press release on new regulations (taxes) for all of us. - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight

General Electric Discussions Talk about topics related to e-powered RC flying

FAA press release on new regulations (taxes) for all of us.

Old 12-14-2015, 03:43 PM
  #1  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default FAA press release on new regulations (taxes) for all of us.

Well here it is. Register your planes, pay your tax, and no one gets hurt...

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releas...9856&cid=TW378
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:06 PM
  #2  
crxmanpat
Community Moderator
 
crxmanpat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,850
Default

So, everything the AMA went through, and we still get shafted in the end. I wonder how they're going to enforce this. And I wonder if the AMA is going to put this in their Safety Code and require all clubs and sanctioned events to have pilots register their aircraft.
crxmanpat is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:10 PM
  #3  
Brner
AMA16634
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 554
Default

I've been a loyal supporter/member of AMA for many years but, am having serious thoughts about the origination now. Unless I read the AMA emails wrong, all this was done "behind closed doors", and we weren't allowed to know the discussion going on....Guess that was "in our best interest"....Yeah Right!

Now the "Administrators" get to interpret it and enforce the "Administrative Law". And, as they frequently do, add to it as they see fit, including raising the fee.

They got their hooks in us now. WATCH OUT!!

However, on the bright side, we can still build chuck gliders but better keep them under half a pound.....for the present anyway!
Brner is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:14 PM
  #4  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

I can see it now, the FAA task force shows up at the local club every weekend looking to find someone who isn't registered and slap them with this huge fine. while hundreds of thousands of unregistered Christmas presents are buzzing the local neighborhoods.

"Failure to register an aircraft may result in regulatory and criminal sanctions. The FAA may assess civil penalties up to $27,500. Criminal penalties include fines of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment for up to three years."

The only place they will be able to enforce this is at club fields. Good luck catching any one who actually caused all this mess in the first place.

Pat I can see it being a requirement to show not only proof of AMA membership for events now but proof of registration with the FAA as well.

This is going to kill the hobby, at least legally anyway.
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:16 PM
  #5  
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,400
Default

I like this bit :

Quote " I’m excited to welcome these new aviators into the culture of safety and responsibility that defines American innovation.”

That's a cracker of a comment !!

Seriously though - its a real jerk idea ... where I live, Latvia - they itch to find new ways to collect money. This is just up their street. Govt' bodies collecting tax that really is no-sensical.

You guys have my sympathy over there ...

Nigel
solentlife is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:18 PM
  #6  
FlyWheel
Ochroma Pyramidale Tekton
 
FlyWheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blackstock, South Carolina
Posts: 3,029
Default

Well, it's not too bad, $5 for three years, free if you register in the next 30 days (I guess y'all missed that part) works out to less than 1/2 cent per day. And it include all your models, present and future. Nor did I see any restrictions, at least not on the linked page, we can still fly the way we always have (assuming you have been flying in a safe, legal matter). It could have been a lot worse, and hopefully it will satisfy the non modelers who have been pushing it.

One question though, the page doesn't say if an A.M.A. membership number will double or be assigned as the pilot's registration number, or will it be a separate number? I remember reading that being suggested.
FlyWheel is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:49 PM
  #7  
fhhuber
Super Contributor
 
fhhuber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,786
Default

OK... I need to register 250 models.... (all that I have and all that I plan to ever own in the future) within the next 30 days.

****************

Called FAA (got voicemail...) and left a message that I have a load of models to register.

The answer to this is the one that stopped FCC from licensing our use of radios... FLOOD THEM with as many registrations as you can all at once. Overload their system so badly they have to give up.

fhhuber is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:51 PM
  #8  
Brner
AMA16634
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 554
Default

Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
Well, it's not too bad, $5 for three years, free if you register in the next 30 days (I guess y'all missed that part) works out to less than 1/2 cent per day..........
With all due respect FlyWheel...this is only the start. "Fees" and "Regulations" only increase and sometimes dramatically. This is just a "foot in the door" and, like all regulations, WILL increase in time....

But, on a good note....I'm quite confident that the very few that have created the problems will trot right down, sign up and put their identification number(s) on their flying units.....Yeah Right!!
Brner is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:54 PM
  #9  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

didn't miss the free for the first 30 days part, saw that plain and clear. But if you actually go to the page it is not free, you still pay the money and it gets refunded to you somehow....


How many people will truly register in the first 30 days, how many will even know about it by then?

And you are doing exactly what they hope you will, justifying the, it's only $5 part. How much do you reckon the renewal will be in three years? I bet you it will be a lot more than $5.

They have put the frog in a pot of cold water, now they are turning on the heat....
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 04:59 PM
  #10  
Brner
AMA16634
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 554
Default Help is on it's way!

.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Here To Help.jpg (14.0 KB, 503 views)
Brner is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 05:00 PM
  #11  
Bald Paul
Member
 
Bald Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boiling Springs, SC
Posts: 547
Default

Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
OK... I need to register 250 models.... (all that I have and all that I plan to ever own in the future) within the next 30 days.
Nope. It looks like you just register yourself - then your registration number has to go on all your aircraft.

"Owners using the model aircraft for hobby or recreation will only have to register once and may use the same identification number for all of their model UAS. The registration is valid for three years."

Hey, isn't that what the AMA tells you to do anyway? Now I have to have TWO sets of numbers on my planes?
Bald Paul is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 05:02 PM
  #12  
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
Default

This interim regulation has made it the sole responsibility of the "owner" purchaser to register the craft......:

"Do owners need to register each
individual UAS they own?

No. The registration system is owner-based, so each
registrant will have a single registration number that covers
any and all UAS that the registrant owns.

Is registration required at point-of-sale?

No. Registration is mandatory prior to operation of a UAS in
the NAS
".

To me, the distributor and or retailer selling the merchandise is considered an "owner" and should be held accountable for the registration as well as the the customer who purchases the craft.

I completely understand why that aspect was not regulated, although I do not agree. It would hurt the sales of such and require the vendors to screen every purchaser.........most, if not all vendors, are not set-up for this or willing to operate like a "firearms" dealer. The cost associated with it would also be passed onto the consumer. The distributors who sell "bits & pieces" which permit the building of such aircraft would be damn near impossible to track........thus the registration requirement due prior to craft operation........again, those who care may register, most probably won't (to many parts to ID and most without serial numbers).

But, if the powers to be want to really "regulate" and enforce a true registration process, it should start at the point of sale. Otherwise, the data base implemented will only provide information of those who "care' to register.........all those who continue to operate the crafts "illegally" will continue to do so and hope they don't get caught..........not much different than what we see now.

Time will tell if the penalty and fine aspect is implemented and whether or not it reduces the "criminal" aspect..........!
pizzano is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 05:08 PM
  #13  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

Agreed, you can't buy a car without paying tax, title and, nor a gun without a background check so if this is truly the horrible thing they are claiming it is why not do this here too?

I don't see of anyway to enforce this on the ones that have made it an issue in the first place. We are going to be the ones to suffer for it.
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 05:45 PM
  #14  
Bald Paul
Member
 
Bald Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boiling Springs, SC
Posts: 547
Default

It's stupid to think that someone buying a "drone" (and we all know what we're talking about here) for the sole purpose of doing something stupid with it is going to bother to register, and put a number identifying him/her as the operator on the craft.

It should be interesting to see how these regulations are going to affect the FPV crowd. One of the things the govt is requiring is that the 'drone' not be operated beyond line of sight of the operator.

Anyone want a snack? I think there's an open can of worms around here somewhere.
Bald Paul is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 05:48 PM
  #15  
FlyWheel
Ochroma Pyramidale Tekton
 
FlyWheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Blackstock, South Carolina
Posts: 3,029
Angry

Well, if you ask me, the majority of the problem (the only one, if media reports are to be taken as gospel) has been the multi-copters and [especially] FPVs. I actually saw this coming from the first post about them. Before they came along no one bothered us because in the public's eyes we were considered to be an educational and respectable hobby.

So In My Opinion we as model aviators should have been pushing for the registration of these types of aircraft as soon as all this started. Then at least the rest of us wouldn't have had to suffer for 'their' sins (I am referring here to the scofflaws, not those who flew in a respectable manner). But did we? No. Instead we went on and on insisting they be allowed to operate just as if they were any ordinary line of sight model, as a result ALL model aircraft got dumped into the same basket along with the rotting fruit.

So I guess we all got what we wished for...

Personally? I would have just banned all civilian use of these products. By "civilian" I mean non military, non commercial and those not used by emergency services. And they would have to register their craft.

As for how the law stands now, I would change one thing, that registration would only be necessary if flown anywhere other than indoors or at a registered, sanctioned field created specifically for the use of model aircraft, and then only within line of site (with a spotter if FPV) as already recommended by the A.M.A.

But no one ever gave a [email protected]^ about my opinions anyway, so here we are.
FlyWheel is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 05:57 PM
  #16  
solentlife
Super Contributor
 
solentlife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ex UK Brit now in Latvia west coast - Ventspils
Posts: 12,400
Default

Originally Posted by Bald Paul View Post
It's stupid to think that someone buying a "drone" (and we all know what we're talking about here) for the sole purpose of doing something stupid with it is going to bother to register, and put a number identifying him/her as the operator on the craft.

It should be interesting to see how these regulations are going to affect the FPV crowd. One of the things the govt is requiring is that the 'drone' not be operated beyond line of sight of the operator.

Anyone want a snack? I think there's an open can of worms around here somewhere.
One of the main purposes of legislation - is to give power and decision parameter to Courts and Law Officers.
It also gives something that can be Suspended or Revoked in penalty of misuse of item.

Nigel
solentlife is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:22 PM
  #17  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

Originally Posted by FlyWheel View Post
I would change one thing, that registration would only be necessary if flown anywhere other than indoors or at a registered, sanctioned field created specifically for the use of model aircraft, and then only within line of site (with a spotter if FPV) as already recommended by the A.M.A.
That makes WAY too much sense for the Gov't to do anything like that!
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:35 PM
  #18  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

The AMA response... apparently they are not on board with this.

http://www.uavexpertnews.com/ama-rea...stration-rule/
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:40 PM
  #19  
crxmanpat
Community Moderator
 
crxmanpat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,850
Default

Maybe I misread the reg. I thought it was going to be $5 PER AIRCRAFT, not $5 for a 3-year registration number to be used on all aircraft.
crxmanpat is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:51 PM
  #20  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

Originally Posted by crxmanpat View Post
Maybe I misread the reg. I thought it was going to be $5 PER AIRCRAFT, not $5 for a 3-year registration number to be used on all aircraft.
yeah the registration is for the pilot not the aircraft.

But in the actual 211 page requirement there are sections covering the sale and trade of aircraft.

Typical gov't crap, it will be so confusing no one will really know what to do and get popped for it in the end for doing it wrong
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 06:55 PM
  #21  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

oh dear, the liberals won't be happy with this. They are excluding illegal aliens for being able to register!

D. Eligibility to register
1. Citizenship
This final rule includes the statutory eligibility requirements for aircraft registration as required by 49 U.S.C. 44102. An aircraft may be registered under 49 U.S.C. 44103 only when the aircraft is not registered under the laws of a foreign country and is owned by (1) a citizen of the United States; (2) an individual citizen of a foreign country lawfully admitted for permanent
residence in the United States; or (3) a corporation not a citizen of the United States when the corporation is organized and doing business under the laws of the United States or a State, and the aircraft is based and primarily used in the United States. The FAA may also register aircraft
owned by the United States government or a State or local governmental entity. See 49 U.S.C.
44102. Part 47 includes these statutory eligibility requirements.
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 07:01 PM
  #22  
crxmanpat
Community Moderator
 
crxmanpat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 6,850
Default

I also saw it applies to anyone who uses the "National Airspace System". I could not find a definition of the NAS anywhere.
crxmanpat is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 07:02 PM
  #23  
pizzano
Behold The Renaissance
 
pizzano's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: So. Calif
Posts: 2,316
Default

Originally Posted by firemanbill View Post
The AMA response... apparently they are not on board with this.

http://www.uavexpertnews.com/ama-rea...stration-rule/
Yep.....I've been posting AMA responses on this for months. AMA has been opposing registration of hobby craft from the beginning.........they have also demanded a clearer definition of the labeling of all types of craft, some of which has been implemented in the use of commericial UAV craft. However, given the potential $$$ involved in sales and future use "taxes", it's no surprise that our law makers would rather take the path of least resistance and benefit from the surplus of capital gain that stands to be made.

We are a nation of economy driven values.........if a buck can't me made somewhere by someone, seldom will the proper attention be given to the details or fairness.....
pizzano is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 07:04 PM
  #24  
firemanbill
Community Moderator
Thread Starter
 
firemanbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Sevierville, Tennessee
Posts: 20,593
Default

US Airspace
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	airspace.gif
Views:	165
Size:	130.8 KB
ID:	182443  
firemanbill is offline  
Old 12-14-2015, 07:59 PM
  #25  
Bald Paul
Member
 
Bald Paul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Boiling Springs, SC
Posts: 547
Default

Originally Posted by firemanbill View Post
oh dear, the liberals won't be happy with this. They are excluding illegal aliens for being able to register!

D. Eligibility to register
1. Citizenship
This final rule includes the statutory eligibility requirements for aircraft registration as required by 49 U.S.C. 44102. An aircraft may be registered under 49 U.S.C. 44103 only when the aircraft is not registered under the laws of a foreign country and is owned by (1) a citizen of the United States; (2) an individual citizen of a foreign country lawfully admitted for permanent
residence in the United States; or (3) a corporation not a citizen of the United States when the corporation is organized and doing business under the laws of the United States or a State, and the aircraft is based and primarily used in the United States. The FAA may also register aircraft
owned by the United States government or a State or local governmental entity. See 49 U.S.C.
44102. Part 47 includes these statutory eligibility requirements.
So, the Chinese exchange student that flew his quadcopter into the path of the CHP helicopter won't have to register?

Brilliant.
Bald Paul is offline  

Quick Reply: FAA press release on new regulations (taxes) for all of us.


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.10575 seconds with 15 queries