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Converting PZ Spitfire to brushless

Old 08-24-2008, 09:23 PM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
No, you have it right. Your particular motor has what might seem like a bizarre shaft orientation, but the radial-mount that you attached to the spinning side (with the large 'screw thingy') is where the prop will go.

I suppose what you can do once you get your prop is to put it on, then ream out the stock spinner base to fit around that shaft, slide that on, then screw down the conehead-shaped spinner nut. Then see if the stock spinner cap will go over the top of it. It should. I actually replaced my stock spinner with a 2.5" Du-Bro spinner that is a lot more sturdy and designed to balance on a larger diameter prop shaft. I use what is called a collet adapter over the threaded shaft from the Gear box. And proud of it lol
Thats good to know mate thanks, The reason i thought it was the wrong way is because theres a smooth shaft behind the mount as u can see in the pics and then theres the shaft with screw thread infront on the mount and ive never seen a prop that screws on ,ive only seen a prop that slides onto a smooth shaft,just my inexperience i suppose.so whats the little round bolt with the hole in the middle of it ? coz the only place it fits onto is the smooth shaft behind the mount and it seems pretty pointless putting it on there?
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:01 PM
  #202  
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Ground: How is the build coming along??
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:37 PM
  #203  
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I wouldn't recommend taking that motor apart. Do whatever it takes to remove the washers without causing any damage to the motor. If you can't get them out, i suggest returning the motor and have them send you a new one.

Your motor mount looks fine (and the motor is facing the correct way) I would cut the plywood to allow more air flow into the fuselage for cooling of the ESC and battery.

Use a 8x6 prop and you will have no worries about going over the c rating or going over the 40amps your ESC is rated for. Remember you are not going to be flying this plane at WOT all the time, but even if you did you would be safe for some time before you would get yourself in danger. remember your motor is rated for 350watts at WOT you should draw around 30-35 at WOT.

Buy a spinner for the prop, the stock one will have a hard time balancing on the nw motor and could cause damage to your plane/motor. With the RPM that these spin at any kind of vibration should be a sign of warning that something is not right.



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Old 08-24-2008, 10:44 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by AETCBoom4 View Post
Ground: How is the build coming along??

Great, in fact I have it propped up in the garage with the CF tubes in the wing with the gorilla glue setting as I type.

Took it out the other day for a lazy shakedown flight, about 7 minutes according to my DX7 and it performed beautifully. Motor was warm but nothing to be worried about. No control surface issues, good rolls, experimented with my expos a bit, and landed much smoother than my 'Stang ever does. Its a great little plane, and it was all I could do to not gun it to see what it would do.

Gonna scare up a cameraman one of these days for sure.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:52 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by radweld View Post
As for Prop, I think a 10x7 should be ok but BRC always provide a datasheet with the motor to help you decide what prop to use, if you didnt get it give them a call.
a 10x7 prop on a 1440Kv motor running a 3cell lipo will run well over 40 amps and deliver much less speed desired. That would be a bad idea to use that prop.

A 8x6 prop will deliver 110kmh with about 45oz of thrust @ about 30amps

After several flight with that prop i would suggest the 7x9 prop that will take this plane to the 140kmh with 48oz of thrust @ around 28amps. This prop will take this plane as fast as it needs to ever travel, remember when at high speeds it is better to take soft turns rather then throw the elevon too hard in either direction.

Remember when you go up in prop diameter your thrust will go up but your speed will go down.
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Old 08-24-2008, 10:53 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Thats good to know mate thanks, The reason i thought it was the wrong way is because theres a smooth shaft behind the mount as u can see in the pics and then theres the shaft with screw thread infront on the mount and ive never seen a prop that screws on ,ive only seen a prop that slides onto a smooth shaft,just my inexperience i suppose.so whats the little round bolt with the hole in the middle of it ? coz the only place it fits onto is the smooth shaft behind the mount and it seems pretty pointless putting it on there?

IF you are talking about that aluminum (alyoominny-um) spacer looking thing, you've got me there. All motor manufacturers send out slightly different kit based on what they assume their motors will be used for. Could be something for a Heli setup, not sure. Check the insert.

I do know that for your purposes, that shaft is not important. Keep stuff clear of it so it can spin and do its thing, other than that just leave it be.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:01 PM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
I wouldn't recommend taking that motor apart. Do whatever it takes to remove the washers without causing any damage to the motor. If you can't get them out, i suggest returning the motor and have them send you a new one.

Your motor mount looks fine (and the motor is facing the correct way) I would cut the plywood to allow more air flow into the fuselage for cooling of the ESC and battery.

Use a 8x6 prop and you will have no worries about going over the c rating or going over the 40amps your ESC is rated for. Remember you are not going to be flying this plane at WOT all the time, but even if you did you would be safe for some time before you would get yourself in danger. remember your motor is rated for 350watts at WOT you should draw around 30-35 at WOT.

Buy a spinner for the prop, the stock one will have a hard time balancing on the nw motor and could cause damage to your plane/motor. With the RPM that these spin at any kind of vibration should be a sign of warning that something is not right.





Right ok ive got the washer out but im still 1 missing but im pretty sure its not in the motor as ive had a hallogan torch on it and cant see it so hopefully i dropped it.we'll soon find out.
Thanks for the info DH , what spinner would u say ? or does it not matter ?
So Im at the later stages now,Ive taped everything in the plane so i can check C of G but would the CG of changed now to the 1 they recomend in the pz spit manual ? If so do u know how I work this out and how shall i do it ?
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:04 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
IF you are talking about that aluminum (alyoominny-um) spacer looking thing, you've got me there. All motor manufacturers send out slightly different kit based on what they assume their motors will be used for. Could be something for a Heli setup, not sure. Check the insert.

I do know that for your purposes, that shaft is not important. Keep stuff clear of it so it can spin and do its thing, other than that just leave it be.
Ok thanks for that buddy
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:22 PM
  #209  
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what about this prop ? http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=261
how come the hole looks tiny and would have no chance of fitting onto the shaft ?
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:26 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
what about this prop ? http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=261
how come the hole looks tiny and would have no chance of fitting onto the shaft ?

That's the make and model, though the diameter and pitch are up to you.

It should fit your prop shaft fine, or might take a little reaming. no worries, that can be done with a drill bit turning very slowly. what you dont see is that on the under side, there is a larger diameter cut out that will allow you to insert the correct diameter spacer in the prop, and then you can use the drill to widen the existing hole.

easy peasy.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:28 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
what about this prop ? http://www.brchobbies.com/?page=shop...ditem&item=261
how come the hole looks tiny and would have no chance of fitting onto the shaft ?

That prop would work, i like using the MAS props because they seem to handle the speed and landings better. (probally becuase they are reinforced.


The CG will remain the same, it has more to do with the airframe and the wing loading then the configuration of anything you mod.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:33 PM
  #212  
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i forget how big my spinner was, i think it was like 2.75inch, it really doesn't matter too much.




remember when you balance your spit do it upsidedown like this.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:43 PM
  #213  
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Ok thnaks DH and Ground
I'll go with the mas props then.Theres a few different types of mas props tho with an 8x6 prop in each series i.e theres Glass Filled Nylon - Tractor , K Series, Scimitar Series, and Classic Series.They are all mas props but just different series, does it matter what one i go with .I'll give ya link to make it easier http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk...xd.asp?id=1432
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:48 PM
  #214  
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Actually if you remove the C clip the bell will pull away from the main body. The magnets will try to resist this but you should feel it move. I have a very similar motor although its a smaller KV and thats what I did to get inside it.

Joeted, ignore everyones "Expert" (including mine) advice regarding the prop and buy what ever the data sheet suggests, I have a number of BRC motors and they all give you 3x suggestions. When you buy a Prop, ensure it's one designed for electrics and not a gas one. APC-E's are the most common and this is what I use, up to about 5 pitch you can even use the stock spinner although you have to modify it a little. I chose to use the stock spinner because of the weight.
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Old 08-24-2008, 11:48 PM
  #215  
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try the

8 dia. x 6 pitch GFN Tractor

I believe that is what i use, the APC props work nice, but when you don't have wheels those props break too often, or worse yet they get damaged and break when you are trying to take off = crash. I have never ruined a MAS prop



As far as the spinner, measure the diameter of the stock spinner and order one that is close in size, i think i went with the 2.25inch one now that i looked at my plane and it's a bit smaller then it should be.
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:14 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
try the

8 dia. x 6 pitch GFN Tractor

I believe that is what i use, the APC props work nice, but when you don't have wheels those props break too often, or worse yet they get damaged and break when you are trying to take off = crash. I have never ruined a MAS prop



As far as the spinner, measure the diameter of the stock spinner and order one that is close in size, i think i went with the 2.25inch one now that i looked at my plane and it's a bit smaller then it should be.
Cheers buddy,ive ordered a few 8x6 mas props and i'll order the spinner tomorrow,not long now hopefully till shes up .just waiting on the charger,prop and spinner
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Old 08-25-2008, 12:48 PM
  #217  
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Im just putting the parts in the plane now ,just wondering if anyones got any ideas on where to put the AR6200 reviever and the extra little reciever thats with it ? theres no where to zip tie it to and at the minute ive just lightly taped it to the inside of the fuselage but obviously cant keep it like that,any ideas ?
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:06 PM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
IF you are talking about that aluminum (alyoominny-um) spacer looking thing, you've got me there.
.
Im on about the smaller round aluminum thing thats above and to the left a a bit of the cone shape screw in the 1st picture ? Not the larger round washer thats to the right of the cone shaped screw.
Out of all of this the thing im finding hardest is working out what order all the little washers,screws and prop go onto the shaft lol
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:27 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Im on about the smaller round aluminum thing thats above and to the left a a bit of the cone shape screw in the 1st picture ? Not the larger round washer thats to the right of the cone shaped screw.
Out of all of this the thing im finding hardest is working out what order all the little washers,screws and prop go onto the shaft lol
Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Im just putting the parts in the plane now ,just wondering if anyones got any ideas on where to put the AR6200 reviever and the extra little reciever thats with it ? theres no where to zip tie it to and at the minute ive just lightly taped it to the inside of the fuselage but obviously cant keep it like that,any ideas ?

Like I said, I don't think it is part of your setup. Disregard it for now.

As for the receivers, the point is to get the best possible signal picture, and you can accomplish this by putting the remote receiver as far from the main receiver as is practical and putting the little antennae perpendicular to each other, like in this picture. See how if you drew a line through the two receiver modules along the antennae, they would cross perpendicular? That give the best coverage.

To be honest at the ranges you are looking at with this plane, this is not strictly necessary. I think the AR6200 was designed for larger aircraft with huge big chunks of metal (the engine) that might block the signal at a certain angle to the transmitter, and for Helis, in which signal losses often result in total losses.

You can fasten the modules with velcro - I usually use foam-safe CA (superglue) on the back of the piece that is going on the inside foam, as
it tends to lift off on the first try from the porous foam surface. once you glue it in place, though, it won't budge, and it still allows you to easily remove the electronics if necessary (same with the ESC).

But velcro is favorite.
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:31 PM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
I use what is called a collet adapter over the threaded shaft from the Gear box. And proud of it lol
Ok Whats the collet adapter for and what does it do ?
By the way Sorry about the last 4 posts being from me i know theres quite a few questions within them lol
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:37 PM
  #221  
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The "collet adapter" is the "prop adapter".

It's what attaches the propeller to the motor (or gearbox) shaft.
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Old 08-25-2008, 02:42 PM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
The "collet adapter" is the "prop adapter".

It's what attaches the propeller to the motor (or gearbox) shaft.
Yeap, but in this application you do not have a collet. you would have a collet if you were trying to place the prop on the shaft side (if you've ever used a Dremel hand tool, the collet is that metal part that pinches tight around the bit after you screw it down) you might have a prop backplate, which is a metal sleeve usually with a friction pattern on the top face, but that should slide right onto the shaft (large one with the threads). then your prop, then that conehead thing to tighten it down.

Get me?
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Old 08-25-2008, 06:26 PM
  #223  
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Originally Posted by groundrushesup View Post
Yeap, but in this application you do not have a collet. you would have a collet if you were trying to place the prop on the shaft side (if you've ever used a Dremel hand tool, the collet is that metal part that pinches tight around the bit after you screw it down) you might have a prop backplate, which is a metal sleeve usually with a friction pattern on the top face, but that should slide right onto the shaft (large one with the threads). then your prop, then that conehead thing to tighten it down.

Get me?
Got ya thanks mate.
Is the prop plate the larger round thing above the cone screw in the picture ? So from looking at the pic below I would screw the larger round thing onto the shaft first and then the prop and then the cone shaped screw yeah ? Coz all what you see in the pic is all that I got with the motor.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:31 PM
  #224  
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Motor --> Large washer --> propeller (not pictured) --> small threaded nut --> spinner (also known as the "cone shaped screw").

Sometimes, the propeller is too deep to allow the small threaded nut and the spinner to fit on the shaft -- if this is the case, you have two options:
  • Leave off the small threaded nut, or
  • leave off the spinner.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:42 PM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by joeted View Post
Got ya thanks mate.
Is the prop plate the larger round thing above the cone screw in the picture ? So from looking at the pic below I would screw the larger round thing onto the shaft first and then the prop and then the cone shaped screw yeah ? Coz all what you see in the pic is all that I got with the motor.

Here's an illustration. It's a slow day at work lol




In your case it looks like #3, the backplate, is that flat washer.


Here's an idea of how to mount the stock spinner until you get a new one. Ream out the hole in the bottom part, of course.




Hope this helps.
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