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What's a good first 3d plane for an advanced flyer?

Old 01-16-2009, 12:17 PM
  #51  
flashburn
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I have never tried a PA Addiction, but am not surprised it is hard to tumble with that big square wing. My Skeeters tumble just fine with tapered wings. The Mojo will do the neatest slo mo kinfe edge spin falling straight down then stop in knife edge and fly across the field. The lowest I ever let it go resulted in the stab/wing tip dragging on the runway. Lots of hoots and hollers from behind.
High speed tumbles can be done with all planes given enough speed and throw so I do not really consider that whem looking for a 3D platform.
I have the 3DH Sukhoi and am not impressed, lots of planes 3D better without snaping and are more robust.
A first 3D plane needs to be light strong and simple to repair, that is covered very well with a profile plane. A full fuse plane lools nice but to get the weight down has to be built very light resulting in a fairly delicate plane that will be broken with the first dork into tall grass.
I love the look of the 3DH planes and they do fly very well if all you want is to tear around and do high power tumbles or blenders with 6 to 7 min flights.
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Old 01-16-2009, 03:43 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by flashburn View Post
I love the look of the 3DH planes and they do fly very well if all you want is to tear around and do high power tumbles or blenders with 6 to 7 min flights.
I wish your experience had been better, it's unfortunate........but the planes are a whole lot more diverse than this.

Two little sample videos I quickly grabbed of non-power tumble flying (there are a bunch out there) from a user on another forum, put them in Vimeo for easy viewing so you don't have to download and save.......sorry if I am leaning off topic.......

[media]http://www.vimeo.com/2849593[/media] - 47" SHP [media]http://www.vimeo.com/2849326[/media] - 47" Velox

Last edited by fliprob17; 01-16-2009 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 01-16-2009, 04:28 PM
  #53  
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Nice vid: A pro can 3D a trainer and look good . My point is for a low time (0) 3D flyer there are better choices out there. A first concern for learning is durability. A profile will beat full fuse planes every time and fly on a smaller (lighter) power system!
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Old 01-16-2009, 10:33 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by flashburn View Post
I have never tried a PA Addiction, but am not surprised it is hard to tumble with that big square wing. My Skeeters tumble just fine with tapered wings. The Mojo will do the neatest slo mo kinfe edge spin falling straight down then stop in knife edge and fly across the field. The lowest I ever let it go resulted in the stab/wing tip dragging on the runway. Lots of hoots and hollers from behind.
High speed tumbles can be done with all planes given enough speed and throw so I do not really consider that whem looking for a 3D platform.
I have the 3DH Sukhoi and am not impressed, lots of planes 3D better without snaping and are more robust.
A first 3D plane needs to be light strong and simple to repair, that is covered very well with a profile plane. A full fuse plane lools nice but to get the weight down has to be built very light resulting in a fairly delicate plane that will be broken with the first dork into tall grass.
I love the look of the 3DH planes and they do fly very well if all you want is to tear around and do high power tumbles or blenders with 6 to 7 min flights.
You make good points flash and im not trying to discount what you are saying at all. But for me ....profile planes just arnt my cup of tea...I like a more scale full fuse look. Im not after extrem 3d just basic simple stuff.

I love mu Mini Ultra Stick but it will not tumble or KE spin for squat...3D planes can and will because of there control surfaces, power and design. As we have seen it is a matter of personal preference .

Try a 3DHS SHP or Slick ....much easier to 3d than the Sukhoi. Ill have to try out a skeeter...they have a huge following for sure!

Thanks for adding to the discussion.
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Old 01-17-2009, 12:39 AM
  #55  
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I can see that there are pro's and con's to both the profile and "scale" type 3d planes. It truly is a shame I can't just buy both kinds, but school is expensive so when I save up $500 bucks it's hard to pick just one!
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Old 01-17-2009, 01:35 AM
  #56  
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Default Hobby Lobby Yak 55

Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
I'm learning on a Hobby Lobby Yak, it's a lot of fun. You will try things with a cheap foamie that you would never do with a nicer plane. Makes it easy and fun to learn.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/yak55.htm
This was also my first 3D plane. I love this plane. They are cheap to purchase, easy to build and are highly manuverable yet easy to learn on. I have cracked mine up several times and glued it back together and it still flies as good as ever.
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:55 AM
  #57  
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Hey Headmaster: It does frustrate me a bit when I see guys post based on experience with only one type or brand of plane. I like a lots of different planes and have tried competition scale (best finish 3rd) glider (best finish 5th in open class) and combat. Dabbled in pattern comp. for three seasons never better than 2nd. Then found 3D, then profile.
I watched electric go from fringe to mainstream and now own several flying power systems from 30 to over 300 Watts.
I too stayed away from profile until a club member brought a Morris Hobbies profile to our field and asked me to test fly it for him. Once it was trimmed out all the ugly went away. I had a OMP edge on my workbench within a month and now 2 Edges and one Fusion later have ready to fly one OMP Edge V3, Mojo 60, Primo 40, Skeeter 30 and 36 (with backup 30 built, backup 36 still in kit form) 2 indoor 24" Edges and the 3DH Sukhoi plus a Maxair Velox @ 69" and a Ohio RC Extra @ 72"
Stripped but still airworthy and waiting are a low wing float plane, one lone 100" glider, a 42" slope ship, plus a couple of combat planes in several classes.
If I say it works it's because I have tried it, If I say stay away It's also because I have tried it. I know I sound a bit heavy so yes it's just a hobby we do for fun so do what YOU like. As long as we both are happy it's all good.
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Old 01-17-2009, 04:55 AM
  #58  
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i think good trainers on both sides of the material board.lol i figured it would turn into a brand war sooner or later.the thread owner just has to decide whether he wants a balsa plane or a foam plane.i think everybody here has given good info on planes they have had experience with,no need to get frustrated in here man.its all good..
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:39 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by flashburn View Post
Hey Headmaster: It does frustrate me a bit when I see guys post based on experience with only one type or brand of plane. I like a lots of different planes and have tried competition scale (best finish 3rd) glider (best finish 5th in open class) and combat. Dabbled in pattern comp. for three seasons never better than 2nd. Then found 3D, then profile.
I watched electric go from fringe to mainstream and now own several flying power systems from 30 to over 300 Watts.
I too stayed away from profile until a club member brought a Morris Hobbies profile to our field and asked me to test fly it for him. Once it was trimmed out all the ugly went away. I had a OMP edge on my workbench within a month and now 2 Edges and one Fusion later have ready to fly one OMP Edge V3, Mojo 60, Primo 40, Skeeter 30 and 36 (with backup 30 built, backup 36 still in kit form) 2 indoor 24" Edges and the 3DH Sukhoi plus a Maxair Velox @ 69" and a Ohio RC Extra @ 72"
Stripped but still airworthy and waiting are a low wing float plane, one lone 100" glider, a 42" slope ship, plus a couple of combat planes in several classes.
If I say it works it's because I have tried it, If I say stay away It's also because I have tried it. I know I sound a bit heavy so yes it's just a hobby we do for fun so do what YOU like. As long as we both are happy it's all good.
I think we all are speaking from what has worked for each of us....again...I said I wasnt discounting your opinion and you have added to the depth of the conversation and given the original poster more options.
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Old 01-17-2009, 11:21 PM
  #60  
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....EDIT.....

Cheese, good luck on whatever you decide to go with, there's plenty of good suggestions here for you. 3D is definitely a large learning curve, but if you stick with it the rewards are fantastic. Start up high and gain your confidence, then slowly bring everything down as you gain in experience. Nothing beats hovers and harriers down low but it will take some time, and plenty of frustrating moments. Get a lot of practice on the simulator, and nice calm mornings with no wind If you are determined to learn, then you will. Try and continuously practice on one specific element at a time until you have it dialed in.

Last edited by fliprob17; 01-17-2009 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 01-18-2009, 12:14 AM
  #61  
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Don't know if it's been mentioned. And don't know if he want's indoor/outdoor, etc...

But for indoor, or calm days, I have never seen ANY plane fly as good as a Clik. I want to build a XXXXL version for outdoors and big power.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:34 AM
  #62  
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If going larger than 52", I would suggest an airfoiled wing and stab. The roll rate was just slow enough on that size and I've seen larger shock flyer types that can barely do a roll at all. I'm working on a 68" foam hybrid that has all the above mentioned surfaces. Kind of cool to have a real floater though, just no fun when rolling. Airfoils, medium cubic loading and downsizing SFG's should help the roll rate greatly. My .02
BTW-seems like the outdoor versions can be made to fly in the breeze just about as well as the indoor versions(with a few changes)
Jason

Last edited by EDFrules; 01-18-2009 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 01-19-2009, 05:28 AM
  #63  
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Here's a big heavy Click that does it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCsOiDkFQA
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:58 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by son of alpea42 View Post
Here's a big heavy Click that does it all [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cCsOiDkFQA[/media]
What's the stats on that one?

Here is a 44" one... from 6mm depron...

[media]http://www.vimeo.com/2876473[/media]
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:00 AM
  #65  
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Lookin' good Arbo!
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:19 AM
  #66  
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here's a Clik Wing Me and My buddy came up with, we call it Proto... I thought Edfrules would get a kick out of this....



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Old 01-20-2009, 05:24 AM
  #67  
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I like draging the rudder on the ground with that wing, and hand catching it from a hover.... its a real trip...LOL

SK
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:35 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by EDFrules View Post
Lookin' good Arbo!
Thanks, that belongs to another guy out here. Both of us flying it in the video, maiden flight. 44" w/s, 1000mah pack and 1320mah packs were used... 9 minute and 10+ minute flights. Just under 18oz AUW.

I'm putting together a 35" one, and looking forward to building my own 44", then even bigger...
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:43 AM
  #69  
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Probably got a good roll rate-eh?! David Kyjovsky would get a kick out of it I'm sure.
Originally Posted by ministeve2003 View Post
here's a Clik Wing Me and My buddy came up with, we call it Proto... I thought Edfrules would get a kick out of this....



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Old 01-20-2009, 06:03 AM
  #70  
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roll was ok, I do know how to redesign it a little better for more roll rates... I'd have to cut its sides down to make a top hat style...

It's amazingly stable in hovering and harriers... Like the clik, I'm starting to think about adding those tips to everything now... I wish I could get a 3d balsa Plane to have them... something like a Clik balsa... that I would definately fork over some nice cash for...

SK
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:53 AM
  #71  
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Hold those positive thoughts. I believe your wish for a hybrid 3D balsa machine is in the works in the near future, possibly by a few companies. I would suspect that there will be some new planes unveiled @ SEFF. I'm working on a foam/balsa/composite version now. No law that says it has to be mostly balsa! With a blend of materials we can get a rugged yet light airframe. My new foamie the Klimaxx 3D LOL(any names pop to mind guys?) is also a candidate for balsa conversion. Have a balsa wing ready for install if the moments and areas work with the flat foam wings. Just some cuts, gluing and foam and she'll be balsified-sorta...
Also working on different LE extensions solutions that would benefit a pattern and 3D flight envelope better. I would stick LE extensions and SFG's on my dog and kids if they'd hold still long enough
Jason
Originally Posted by ministeve2003 View Post
... Like the clik, I'm starting to think about adding those tips to everything now... I wish I could get a 3d balsa Plane to have them... something like a Clik balsa... that I would definately fork over some nice cash for...

SK
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:52 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by EDFrules View Post
Hold those positive thoughts. I believe your wish for a hybrid 3D balsa machine is in the works in the near future, possibly by a few companies. I would suspect that there will be some new planes unveiled @ SEFF. I'm working on a foam/balsa/composite version now. No law that says it has to be mostly balsa! With a blend of materials we can get a rugged yet light airframe. My new foamie the Klimaxx 3D LOL(any names pop to mind guys?) is also a candidate for balsa conversion. Have a balsa wing ready for install if the moments and areas work with the flat foam wings. Just some cuts, gluing and foam and she'll be balsified-sorta...
Also working on different LE extensions solutions that would benefit a pattern and 3D flight envelope better. I would stick LE extensions and SFG's on my dog and kids if they'd hold still long enough
Jason
That sounds like good news... Let me know if you see something like that anywhere....

SK
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:46 PM
  #73  
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Only official place I've seen one is on my workbench Otherwise I can think of 2 companies off hand that should be fielding(or are testing) them right now for release in the spring/summer. I heard one of the larger RC companies is rumored to be working on one for summer. NOT SOON ENOUGH GUYS! I've been begging and pleading for a 3D/precision hybrid for years.(Besides Reactor,Inspire 60). Somehow I don't think they'll be huge sellers no matter how well they fly-"It's not scale" will be the complaint. Well you can only beat the dead "scale" horse for so long. I'm looking to the future when every scale aerobat has been done ad nausem and folks are finally looking for something different. Don't get me wrong, I like scale(semi-scale lets face it) 3D planes, but you can only go so far with a design that's limited by it's initial criteria-aerobatics not 3D flight. Time for something out of the box and with better flight characteristics(i.e. Clik!). David K. has the Virtuoso 3D a composite 2m airframe but haven't seen any stateside or heard any flight reports or vids. Looks about right though....Also tried the Zafiro 3D-nice looks but not so nice in flight. Oh well lesson learned...
http://www.freeair.cz/ENGLISH/Virtuoso%203D-AJ.html
Sorry, didn't mean to hijack this thread Cheese Puddin-I blame Ministeve! He started talking about hybrids first...couldn't help myself.
I say go for an EPP plane either profile or full fuse with an airfoiled wing. They'll pay for themselves after the first few doinks.

Regards,
Jason
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Last edited by EDFrules; 01-20-2009 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 01-21-2009, 02:47 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Cheese_Puddin View Post
I can see that there are pro's and con's to both the profile and "scale" type 3d planes. It truly is a shame I can't just buy both kinds, but school is expensive so when I save up $500 bucks it's hard to pick just one!
For that much, you can buy a 48" DW and get it flying, as well as a 38" DW and get it flying. 2 fer 1 Also, going the foam route can save you cash, as when you crash it, it's not going to cost as much to repair it as a balsa ship.

IMHO, they fly better then other foamies (not trying to bash). They have a very clean knife edge, and pretty much zero coupling everywhere else. It you get the CG right, they will hold KE with minimal rudder, whereas other planes require more rudder, and usually have coupling. Also, they are the easiest foamies to hover I have flown. The Juka practically pops into one, and likes to stay there, but push it out, and it will go out.
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Old 01-21-2009, 04:29 AM
  #75  
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Theres NOTHING wrong with an AirfoilZ. True wing on a built up foamie makes a real nice 3D'er.

I like mine, and always have one handy.
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