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450 Heli ....

Old 10-25-2016, 03:08 PM
  #1  
solentlife
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Default 450 Heli ....

Boy am I losing my temper with my 450 ... OK - its been through the wars and back again with me. I never fly it enough to get good ... I basically hover a few batterys through it ... put it aside and month later another few batterys ...

But now it seems it's lost its patience with ME !!

Other day ... I was flying it and all seemed OK ... then it started to revolve despite tail (rudder) commands.
I stripped and checked it all ... found tail rotor shaft a bit sticky and some grass bound at its inner end. So cleaned it all up ... oiled it ... freed it.

Took it out and she was just starting to lift and around she went again ... not fast but she was obviously going to revolve ... tail command did nothing to stop it ... throttled down and checked her over ... all seemed fine ... slider fine on the shaft ...

Spooled her up again ... same started to revolve .... then the ball link popped out of the L arm on the tail. Throttled down and retired to house to contemplate the 450's future !!

Today I have reset all the tail end again and waiting battery to charge up to give her ONE FINAL chance ......

My spare heli sheered main shaft and is sitting in bits in a box ...

My father years ago when training on Helis with Bristows reckoned they were Devils machines and 'accidents looking for place to happen' ... my Father was Senior CAA Ops Inspector for Govt ... How true he was !!

Nigel
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Old 10-25-2016, 03:37 PM
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Nope ... still not right ...

Belt is good ... not slipping ...

Just no logical reason for it.

As soon as rotor gets near to lift - gyro is commanding tail to have full right but heli is turning to left !

Nigel
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Old 10-25-2016, 04:34 PM
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Now I've changed tail boom, tail unit, ESC, tail blades ....

Screw came out of tail strut - why do they make items in such soft crap ?? I have loads of those tail Y's that have the struts fastened to them - the threads fail in them so easily.

I've put in some 'goop' to hold the screw now ... so will try again tomorrow once strut is secure.

Nigel
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:51 PM
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Sounds like it could be a failing servo? Alternatively if the servo is ok then vibrations is likely. Vibes will often knock out the gyro.

Regarding the 'soft crap' metal... The joys of clone helis! I think they get their metal from the local cheese factory.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:57 PM
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I've had Align, Tarot and others ... all did the same ....

What I cannot figure out is why the tail rotor control goes to full right so blades are angled to turn tail to left - nose to right but she still revolves CCW on the spot ...

Nigel
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
I've had Align, Tarot and others ... all did the same ....

What I cannot figure out is why the tail rotor control goes to full right so blades are angled to turn tail to left - nose to right but she still revolves CCW on the spot ...

Nigel
Tarot is a clone too, even if one of the better ones. Genuine Align are usually ok in my experience, not the very best but pretty decent.

Anyway, back on topic. If the blades truly and for 100% certain were at 'full pitch to turn right' and the heli still turned left (torque reaction).. Then the tail rotor cant have been spinning fast enough. There is no other explanation. So that would be a slipping belt or pulley/gear slipping on the shaft, or quite common on the Trex 450 and clones - teeth missing from the tail drive gear.

However i'd still suspect that the blades might not in fact have been at 'full right pitch'. It's pretty hard to be certain what direction the pitch is when the blades are spinning.
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:37 PM
  #7  
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Mechanical aspects ironed out..........what electrical diagnostics determined Gyro/Servo Gain, Gyro/Servo Rates & Hold.....TX default (programmed) settings.....Rates Idle/Idle-Up, Expo/Travel Length settings.......no issues there.....?
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Old 10-25-2016, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Tarot is a clone too, even if one of the better ones. Genuine Align are usually ok in my experience, not the very best but pretty decent.

Anyway, back on topic. If the blades truly and for 100% certain were at 'full pitch to turn right' and the heli still turned left (torque reaction).. Then the tail rotor cant have been spinning fast enough. There is no other explanation. So that would be a slipping belt or pulley/gear slipping on the shaft, or quite common on the Trex 450 and clones - teeth missing from the tail drive gear.

However i'd still suspect that the blades might not in fact have been at 'full right pitch'. It's pretty hard to be certain what direction the pitch is when the blades are spinning.
The slider is easily seen full over to counter the heli's trying to revolve CCW ... which yes CCW is direction she would turn by torque. When all stopped the slider remains where is.

The one-way bearing is fine - no slippage.

All gear teeth there ... on all cogs including belt drive cogs. Tension is fine on belt ...

This is why I am so p'd off with it ... I cannot find any reason the tail rotors are not spinning up fast enough.

In answer to your Gyro items P ... the Gyro is commanding as it should the tail to counter the CCW turn ... it is not just jogging the tail to correct - its applying full correction same as i would if I gave full stick to stop the rotation. If the gyro was at fault - the tail slider would be jogging back and forth or not acting at all ... but its acting fully correct.

As JPF says - its got to be tail rotor rpm for some reason ... everything is acting in correct way but heli is torquing to left.

Nigel
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Old 10-25-2016, 09:00 PM
  #9  
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You havent by any chance dismantled the tail or had the belt off recently? There are two potential problems if you have had it to bits:
  1. Belt is twisted the wrong way causing tail rotor to spin backward thus reversing tail thrust (tail rotor should rise at the front and descend at the back).
  2. Pitch control links on tail are assembled trailing rather than leading the grips. Result is slider moved the correct way but produces opposite pitch on blades.

Both are quite common errors.
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
You havent by any chance dismantled the tail or had the belt off recently? There are two potential problems if you have had it to bits:


Belt is twisted the wrong way causing tail rotor to spin backward thus reversing tail thrust (tail rotor should rise at the front and descend at the back).
Nope - thats fine.

Pitch control links on tail are assembled trailing rather than leading the grips. Result is slider moved the correct way but produces opposite pitch on blades.
Nope correct ...

Both are quite common errors.
Baffling !!

Nigel
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:45 PM
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It's got to be something that's either casing the pitch to be the wrong way of the rotor to spin too slowly and/or in the wrong direction... I'm out of ideas as to what we might have missed?

What about some close up photos and/or video of the heli? Maybe a fresh pair of eyes will spot something.
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Old 12-10-2016, 07:07 AM
  #12  
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She's partly dismantled now and I'm considering amalgamating the two 450's I have into one. The ESC started to get really hot on the last try ... so somethings not right.

I'm a few 000's km away from home at moment - so no chance to do anything. My interest seems to drifting away from this as well - now having got the Phantom. once the novelty of the DJI wears of, then I'll likely look at the 450 again ...

Cheers
Nigel
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Old 12-11-2016, 09:46 AM
  #13  
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What about a flybarless conversion on one of your 450's? You can get the required parts very cheap these days and the FBL will be something new to 'play with' (plus they fly better anyway).

I dont imagine it will take you long to get bored with the Phantom. They are great if you want to take aerial photos/videos but if your interest is actually 'RC flying' they dont have much to offer IMHO.
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Old 12-11-2016, 09:55 AM
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solentlife
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Maybe .... first I have to get back home !!

Job in Slavyanka, 180km south of Vladivostok, is dragging on a lot longer than expected. Looks like I will be here till new year !

Cheers
Nigel
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Old 12-13-2016, 11:24 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Boy am I losing my temper with my 450 ... OK - its been through the wars and back again with me. I never fly it enough to get good ... I basically hover a few batterys through it ... put it aside and month later another few batterys ...

But now it seems it's lost its patience with ME !!

Other day ... I was flying it and all seemed OK ... then it started to revolve despite tail (rudder) commands.
I stripped and checked it all ... found tail rotor shaft a bit sticky and some grass bound at its inner end. So cleaned it all up ... oiled it ... freed it.

Took it out and she was just starting to lift and around she went again ... not fast but she was obviously going to revolve ... tail command did nothing to stop it ... throttled down and checked her over ... all seemed fine ... slider fine on the shaft ...

Spooled her up again ... same started to revolve .... then the ball link popped out of the L arm on the tail. Throttled down and retired to house to contemplate the 450's future !!

Today I have reset all the tail end again and waiting battery to charge up to give her ONE FINAL chance ......

My spare heli sheered main shaft and is sitting in bits in a box ...

My father years ago when training on Helis with Bristows reckoned they were Devils machines and 'accidents looking for place to happen' ... my Father was Senior CAA Ops Inspector for Govt ... How true he was !!

Nigel
Hi Nigel Long time no Hear, I have had 450 Helis too, They can be a PITA, you work on them 80% of the Time and fly them 20% of the time I never got very good with a heli, just hover it around, do some fly bys and that about all i can do with a heli, they just are not my Cup of Tea I found out the hard way Take care and have fun, Chellie
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Old 12-13-2016, 12:05 PM
  #16  
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Where have you been 'Gal' ..... missed you !

Cheers
Nigel
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Old 12-19-2016, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Where have you been 'Gal' ..... missed you !

Cheers
Nigel
Hi Nigel I have not been Doing any Flying or Building Lately, A bunch of Stuff came up and I am Having to deal with it , I had to refinance my home and get a lower interest rate, I went from 5.5% to 3% and took some money out to pay off Credit cards and I still lowered my Monthly House payment
Had Solar installed on my home to lower my Electric bill, changed Insurance company's for my home and autos, that saved me $600.00 a year on my auto insurance with better coverage, bought a new 2016 Toyota Van, it was a year end clearance that saved me $5000.00 and got it at a fleet price My old 2008 Vans A/C quit working, and i did not want to deal with it, So I gave the Old Van to my Son that needed a vehicle, looking into installing wood flooring in my home, I have a bunch of stuff going on right now, But I am Winning My New Hobby right now is Drinking a few beers at the Club Playing Pool, singing Karaoke and dancing the night away Take care and Have fun, Chellie
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Old 12-19-2016, 11:58 PM
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Blimey Chell !

And there's me stuck in East Russia ....

Cheers
Nigel
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