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Dumas Spad XIII

Old 09-27-2008, 06:21 PM
  #101  
barmonkey
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Good to hear you got it to fly! Hopefully the wing tip will be an easy fix.

What battery and prop did you end up using? Did yo stay with the 2S TP?

To avoid the nose-over, you could try some up-elevator on landing to stick the tail to the ground.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:49 PM
  #102  
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That's good advice on landing WWI birds Barmonkey. That is my technique for not flipping over. It works most of the time!! Steve
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:03 AM
  #103  
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I'm using the 2cell Thunderpower. I flew it again (too much wind, but had to do it anyway...) and after some thought here's my opinion:

1) NO wind, and I mean "No" wind can be sustained easily by this plane. I truly think at one point it was flying backwards! I was pushing it, and should have put the plane away, but... I just had to try.

2) Without full down elevator trim, this plane wants to balloon constantly. Mine wanted to porpoise around the sky until I dialed in the down elevator. I'm assuming this is because it is tail heavy. I'm going to put some weight up front (how much would you recommend to start?)

2 and 1/2) Takeoffs should not be done in the "Parkzone" manner (which is what I know). This is comprised of jamming on full throttle, ruddering to the left and pulling up to get away fast. This plane just goes vertical. Slow application of throttle, gentle ruddering to keep it straight, and no (or very very little) up elevator get a nice scale takeoff...

3) Brushless is absolutely the way to go - you just fly it at half throttle, and have plenty of power to get you out of problems, except...

4) Trees are indeed magnetic. I hit a small tree with my undercarriage after which the plane came to the ground. Needless to say I have some work to do on it... Nothing that is overly difficult, but it pulled the gear down in front, which of course shattered the structure of the underbelly. So, back to cutting and gluing tiny little 1/16 x 1/16 pieces of balsa onto the stringers. Luckily, when carefully done, this covering doesn't show patches easily. By next weekend it will be ready to go again.

I did manage to stick a landing before the tree attacked the plane... It's really a nice thing to see in the sky... I'll try to get in a video, if the weather lets me take it out again. It's not going out, however, unless it is dead calm.
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:09 AM
  #104  
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Do you think a little down thrust could help the ballooning?
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:15 AM
  #105  
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Would you try that prior to adding nose weight? And if nose weight, how much would you recommend? If down thrust, just a tiny bit of shim on the motor mount? (Remember, mine is not a stick-mount.)

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:16 AM
  #106  
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btw I'm using a 9x6 prop.
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:22 AM
  #107  
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Not using the stick mount works to your advantage, just shim the motor at the top. Adding the nose weight would be probably be the easiest to start with, but be aware that making the plane too nose heavy may reduce the effectiveness of your rudder.
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:29 AM
  #108  
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I did plan to get some work done today, but I went to the Hobby shop to get some sheet Balsa and the owner informed me that the R/C boat club was having their year end race today. Needless to say I spent most of the day there!

I managed to work some of the fuse stringers loose while scalloping the top stringer formers...so now I need to wait for glue to dry...AAARGH!
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:37 AM
  #109  
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Scalloping da formers...
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:40 AM
  #110  
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That's a great idea! Next plane...
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:53 AM
  #111  
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kind of wish I would have saved it for the next plane myself

Posted below are the colors I have right now if I go with the 5 color camo. The brown on the top will not be used...fifth color is black and I have another color picked for the bottom. The colors aren't accurate due to the lighting conditions.
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Old 09-28-2008, 03:25 AM
  #112  
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As I mentioned a couple of pages ago, I am using five 1/16 x 1/8 stringers on the bottom rather than ten 1/16 x 1/16 plus one 1/16 x 1/8 stringers. My 3 view drawings and some photos show that there were only 5 stringers on the bottom. I chose to go with 1/16 x 1/8 rather than 1/16 x 1/16 in the hopes I would not lose any strength. The formers will be scalloped just like the top.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:49 AM
  #113  
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I got the scallops mostly finished...still some cleaning up to do.

Now I can turn my focus to the front...not the "War Front"...a little early for that I know this wasn't designed to be a true scale model, but there are a few things I would like to change and incorporate into my build.

First, the two little things that are the reason this plane was built...the twin Vickers! In the beginning, I wanted to just build some simple paper machine guns and taper the bottoms to conform to the top of the covering. Now, I am considering adding the gun troughs and making some nice fairly detailed Vickers guns to fit. One side note is that on the real Spad XIII, these troughs actually came through to the trailing edge of the cowling...I am not going to change the cowl to allow for this.

Second, the two stringers that run along the sides of the plane do not run all the way to the front. All of the panels forward of the cockpit were metal. So I am considering sheeting the front. I added some weight aft of the C/G so I hope this won't put too much weight forward of the C/G. As a bonus, I will have something to attach the exhausts to...were we supposed to just glue them to the covering?

Then, I want to add the louvered panels on the sides and the three on top of the motor. I am not sure how I will tackle this. I will either make some decals and hint that louvers are there, or I may make the panels out of litho plate...including real louvers.
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:09 PM
  #114  
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What a work of art! I am really enjoying this thread - please keep those posts and pictures coming! I did glue the exhaust stacks directly to the covering on top of the stringers... It seems to be holding fine (survived the horrible tree attack, anyway).

It really is my feeling that you can move that center of gravity forward a bit without much worry.

I'm really looking forward to seeing how you the covering your intending to use... Are you going to airbrush the camo, or brush paint?
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Old 09-28-2008, 01:38 PM
  #115  
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J,

Do you have room to slide your battery forward . I had to do the same with my Dumas Waco . The manner in which you describe takeoff is typical of Pats models .

Barmonkey,

Looking great !

-John
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:09 AM
  #116  
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jszeiter, I plan to use an airbrush to paint. I have a Harbor Freight Automotive Detail gun which I got on sale for $10. I used it on my Hurricane with very nice results. I painted the brown with the gun and hand painted the green because my masking material would pull the paint off the foam. I don't think that will be an issue with the Doculam...but I may have to wait a few days between painting and masking.

Thanks guys for the support!
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:57 AM
  #117  
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The Aileron servo mounting has begun. I removed the front par of R1 and copied it. The new rib pieces ended up at 19mm from the outside ribs of the center section. One thing I didn't account for, was that the R1 is shorter than the R2 ribs. I had to glue a thin piece of Balsa to the top of R1 just aft of the rear stringer notch. I also placed a bottom plate made of 1/16 Balsa on the structure to give a bit of rigidity.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I plan to make an access cover to simplify servo adjustment/replacement. The Spad desingers conveniently placed two fuel tanks and a radiator reservoir which I can emulate to make a hatch. This tank resembles a fat "T", with the top of the "T" toward the pilot.

I still need to decide how much dihedral to retain. The real Spad had no dihedral, but I want to retain some of the stability that the dihedral gives.
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Old 09-30-2008, 02:53 PM
  #118  
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Beautiful work! Well, I repaired it, flew it again this morning, had a hard landing and tore the landing gear off again!

It's only the front that lets go... and unfortunately it breaks through the stringers for the underbelly. Did you lash the front of the landing gear to the spar? If not, I recommend that you do - anything to strengthen that connection would be good. I'm still having a hell of a time trimming the airplane... The wing also tends to disconnect where the leading edge is butted up against the center spar section (the section you have a picture of in your post). Reinforcing that connection on the lower wing would also probably be a good thing to do...

Of course, if your a good pilot (unlike myself) you probably won't need any of the above.
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:02 PM
  #119  
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Finally got it! I moved the front strut out in front of the second former (in the "battery hatch") and lashed it using fishing line and CA. If it let's go, it won't go snapping through my underbelly stringers. I also applied a bit of down trim to the motor.

My came out HEAVY (AUW 15 oz.) which might be partially due to the two trips to the hanger for repairs. The result is a slightly more challenging plane to fly. It will tip stall at lower speeds, and it does require some power on approach to prevent it snapping to one side (into the ground). I decided I would just trim out the elevator to compensate for the remaining tendency to balloon. At about half throttle it will remain level now. Put two flights on it this morning with no problems. Now that I understand what I've done (that is to say built it too heavy) I'm able to fly it with more confidence... How's yours coming Barmonkey?
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:12 PM
  #120  
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Good to hear that you are getting things sorted out. I have been thinking about the reinforcements that you suggested in your previous post, and meant to ask for some pics of the area where the landing gear mounts break. I have been worried about the strength of this area from the beginning.
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:32 PM
  #121  
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As for my progress...brace yourself....not much progress build-wise...definately not on the fast track.

I have been doing some studying on how to incorporate the Vickers guns/troughs, and the side profile details (louvered panel and exhaust). These are things which I want to include in the finished product, but may not be included in the maiden version. I need to plan for the addition of these things before I go any further with the fuse.

I blew up some 1/48 plans to the approximate size of this plane (front only)...and this took about an entire day to figure out how. I have determined judging by the wingspan, that the plane is 1/9 scale BTW. The plans I blew up, were just sized to fit the kit's plans. From this effort I have a good idea of gun, louvered panel, exhaust placement and will also create a more scale looking landing gear.

I have been studying the Vickers guns, and think that I have the size figured out. Unfortunately there aren't any 1/9 scale Vickers available. I need some 1/6 scale Spandau's for my 1/6 Fokker D.VIII, so went ahead and ordered some 1/6 Vickers guns. Using these as a model, I should be able to make some believable 1/9 scale Vickers guns. I will post the process here or may start another thread on Vickers guns.

I should get the dihedral set on the wings today. I will still go with a reduced dihedral...about half of what the plans call for. Hopefully, my Aileron set-up will be effective. If not, the dihedral should retain some of the rudder turning (banking) ability. I am pretty confident that I will have my hands full on the maiden!
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Old 10-05-2008, 03:49 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by barmonkey View Post
As for my progress...brace yourself....not much progress build-wise...definately not on the fast track.

I have been doing some studying on how to incorporate the Vickers guns/troughs, and the side profile details (louvered panel and exhaust). These are things which I want to include in the finished product, but may not be included in the maiden version. I need to plan for the addition of these things before I go any further with the fuse.

I blew up some 1/48 plans to the approximate size of this plane (front only)...and this took about an entire day to figure out how. I have determined judging by the wingspan, that the plane is 1/9 scale BTW. The plans I blew up, were just sized to fit the kit's plans. From this effort I have a good idea of gun, louvered panel, exhaust placement and will also create a more scale looking landing gear.

I have been studying the Vickers guns, and think that I have the size figured out. Unfortunately there aren't any 1/9 scale Vickers available. I need some 1/6 scale Spandau's for my 1/6 Fokker D.VIII, so went ahead and ordered some 1/6 Vickers guns. Using these as a model, I should be able to make some believable 1/9 scale Vickers guns. I will post the process here or may start another thread on Vickers guns.

I should get the dihedral set on the wings today. I will still go with a reduced dihedral...about half of what the plans call for. Hopefully, my Aileron set-up will be effective. If not, the dihedral should retain some of the rudder turning (banking) ability. I am pretty confident that I will have my hands full on the maiden!
I wish there were scale vintage guns on the market of 1/9 through 1/12 scale. Not any I know of. The Williams Bros are nice, but then you must build a huge plane to accomodate them. Would be a bit large for your Spad.
I'll probably just end up using the Guillows guns for my current job, as making 2 would be some effort. Then again, cleaning up the molded half-part glue seams will be effort also.

My last gun effort for my Bristol was a good bit of work, gluing wire lengths around the barrel, and then covering with aluminized duct tape, rubbed hard around the barrel, which gave a nice ribbed look.
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Old 10-05-2008, 04:19 AM
  #123  
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Thanks Bill, for the tip. I have considered that method to give the ribbed look. Actually, the last post you made in your Sopwith Camel thread you showed your paper wheel covers...in the background I noticed your pictures in the background! Those pictures looked very familiar...I know I read that build thread somewhere...perhaps at RCG? Those are the best I have seen in a smaller scale.

BTW...there are some 1/8, 1/9, 1/10, and 1/12 scale Spandau, Lewis Gun and Parabellum guns availibile at Wright Brothers...unfortunately no Vickers.

http://www.wrightbrothersrc.com/products/wwi.htm

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Old 10-05-2008, 05:43 AM
  #124  
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Just to prove that I got something done today...included is a pic of the wings with the dihedral glued up. I went with 1/2 the dihedral of the original plan...rather than blocking 3/4" as designed on the plan , I went with 3/8". I figured the original dihedral was 5 degrees so that would be 2.5 degrees of dihedral. Pat Trittle stated in his thread that it was 3 degrees (which is probably correct) so that would leave 1.5 degrees dihedral.

The other pic shows some stuff that I found for the scale items. On top is a 1/2" diameter knitting needle I found on clearance...I got a pair for 2 bucks. No I dont knit, I have been searching high and low for just the right item to make these guns out of. The best I can figure, the scale barrel/cooling jacket dimensions are about 1/2" diameter and 2 1/4" in length...the rest of the gun is about 2".

The next item is a 3/8" dowel pin...too bad I couldn't find a 2 1/4" x 1/2" dowel pin. That would have been perfect!

The last item is a "MAGNUM" sized drinking straw I found at Hardee's. The diameter is 7mm. I am not sure what the scale diameter is, but it looks close. I brushed some acrylic paint on the end to test for adhesion. The plan is to use the kits header pieces and obviously the straw for the tial pipe. I figure it will not only save a bit of weight, but will yeild a better, rounder tail pipe.
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Old 10-05-2008, 02:05 PM
  #125  
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I'm not sure where all the weight came from (on my plane that is), but suspect the exhaust pipes. I've flown it three times this weekend with no further problems. Once I learned that yes it can stall and fall off dramatically, I'm keeping the air speed up, even on landing. It is not, however, the easy, slow park flyer I expected.

I'll post some pictures of the landing gear. Pat has you gluing it to the landing gear brace on the back of former 2, which puts it under the belly stringers. As I had to rebuild the engine mount (no stick mount), I simply moved the front "crosspiece" of the landing gear to the from of former two in the battery hatch area, and lashed it to two pieces of bracing for the firewall.

In retrospect, it probably would have been fine using the original plan, as long as the pilot is good enough to have no hard landings.

Incidentally, I changed my username, as jszeiter was simply not keeping up with the wit of the community...
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