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Spextrum AR636 RX- Strange Behavior

Old 06-05-2016, 01:34 AM
  #1  
stanz358
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Default Spextrum AR636 RX- Strange Behavior

Hello all - have a strange problem and I just need to bounce some things off of you guys to see if I'm missing something. This is going to be a rather long explanation since it's rather strange what I'm seeing and I've done some extensive troubleshooting up to this point.

Brand new AR636 - programmed through Ipad and installed in P39. 3 flight modes with AS3X turned off in FM1 which is what I maidened in. So AS3X shouldn't play into this.

Take off and at about 10-15 feet, tried banking right and it went left. At the time, I'm thinking it went into a torque roll/stall so I fed it right aileron and throttle and it seemed to worsen. I thought I just screwed up. Picked up the pieces and went home. So I did a triage to make sure it wasn't a mechanical failure since it was a new RX and Aircraft. Here's what I found

Ailerons servo's reversed - but not in the TX or in checking programming on the RX with the APP. Reversed them on the TX and all functioned as expected. I know I screwed up pre-flight and lesson learned. I just moved the surfaces, they moved and thought all was good.

So now the question. Why, with servos in normal position on the TX, they were behaving as if reversed. Connected the RX to the APP and sure enough, orientation was backwards - front to rear. It must not have synced correctly initially. However I am under the impression that orientation just affects AS3X not actual stick inputs. Anyway, corrected that synced and still ailerons operating in reverse. So I'm thinking there is an issue with the programming on the app syncing with the RX. So I reversed the servos for the ailerons on the app, re-synced and now in reverse state, they are working. So this proves the app is syncing. Still no answer as to why in normal state, ailerons are backwards.

Plugged the wing into a receiver I had laying around from an apprentice. They work fine. So I am completely stumped. They is no Y connector coming into play here. The P39 has all wing wiring going through a harness and then single lead coming out the other side.

2 Questions

1. - The big one is why is this happening?
2. - Just for clarification, the orientation on these AS3X RX are critical only for AS3X - correct. I think I answered that in my troubleshooting explained above but just want to make sure.

I've been at this quite a few hours so maybe I missed something. I truly would welcome and input or thoughts on this. If you got this far - thanks for taking the time to read it all. Rather long but alot of troubleshooting steps to explain.
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Old 06-05-2016, 01:50 AM
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birdDog
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Something as simple as putting the servo arm and control rod on the left side or the right side of the output shaft can effectively reverse it. Don't feel bad, it even happens to people with a lot of experience. You will never make this mistake again! Hopefully.

In the old days, mechanical adjustments were all that were available.
There are a limited amount of servo styles but an endless amount of applications.
I would keep my reversal to the transmitter but if you can program the Rx, well I guess that works too.
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Old 06-05-2016, 03:25 AM
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stanz358
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So here's a quick update. I was thinking maybe something was screwed up with this particular model in either the RX or TX. So I reset, rebound and same behavior. I then went on the create 6 new models and bound to several different TX's , DX6 DX7 and DX9. Each an every time, even though flap and aileron servos were in NORMAL position, they behaved as if they were reversed.

Now I'm not sure if it is this particular AR636, the APP on my Ipad used to program or what but anyway, there you have it.

Costly lesson learned . I checked the setting on 3 times before heading to the field and had no reason to believe the servos would wind up reversed even though listed as Normal. Should've paid more attention to correct movement instead of just that they were all moving .
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Old 06-05-2016, 03:49 AM
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Some planes are designed with the aileron servo control horns pointing inward (towards the fuselage) and some planes are designed with the horns pointing to the outside. Some even have the control rods on the top of the wing. Reversing servos is standard procedure in setting up a lot of planes. The software has no idea what "normal" is for any particular model, sans possibly some same brand BNF. Same with elevator or rudder controls, the side of the airplane the servo is mounted in will effect the direction in which it must move.
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Old 06-05-2016, 04:36 AM
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pizzano
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Just a note....:

If the AS3X application is intended to be engage, servo connections should not be made prior to the bind process. Once it has a solid bind signal, the App/PC should direct you to the servo install/connection section.........depending on ones craft set-up, it may require the servos to be reversed in order to reflect the proper motion for that particular model.

We read that in the manual but forgot to apply it on our first set-up (scratching heads).......we had this device on three different craft, only one required servo reversing due to the planes air surfaces stock design.......like birdDog said, it's not unusual to need to reverse servos on many stock models.

We found, once we got familiar with the set-up instructions menu and fine tuning our TX's, the "tool" worked pretty well.......it is somewhat of a pain to get used to and programming/fine tuning in harmony with the TX is very time consuming.......That said, I and the two other buddies who had the AR636, no longer bother with it and we have gone back to stock configuration.........All three of the planes were 3D capable, but we all preferred just to master our skills old school. That's enough to deal with, without the additional "what if's-what-now's" and is it me or the "tool set-up" questions always in the back of our minds.......just our observations and opinion on this unit.......
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:29 AM
  #6  
stanz358
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Originally Posted by birdDog View Post
Something as simple as putting the servo arm and control rod on the left side or the right side of the output shaft can effectively reverse it. Don't feel bad, it even happens to people with a lot of experience. You will never make this mistake again! Hopefully.

In the old days, mechanical adjustments were all that were available.
There are a limited amount of servo styles but an endless amount of applications.
I would keep my reversal to the transmitter but if you can program the Rx, well I guess that works too.
Yes, this was a very expensive lesson - being - watch the control surfaces during pre-flight check and not just go through the motions - they are all moving so all must be good. But as mentioned, I checked settings on TX multiple times and all was well. I had no reason to reverse aileron servos and they the switch position was listed as being in normal position. This particular RX has to be flaky. Every new model I setup for post crash testing shows aileron servo - normal position - when in fact they behave as if reversed.

This particular model - rest in peace - came with servos already installed and they were installed correctly. Gotta be the RX. Thanks for the reply
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:38 AM
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stanz358
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Originally Posted by pizzano View Post
Just a note....:

If the AS3X application is intended to be engage, servo connections should not be made prior to the bind process. Once it has a solid bind signal, the App/PC should direct you to the servo install/connection section.........depending on ones craft set-up, it may require the servos to be reversed in order to reflect the proper motion for that particular model.

We read that in the manual but forgot to apply it on our first set-up (scratching heads).......we had this device on three different craft, only one required servo reversing due to the planes air surfaces stock design.......like birdDog said, it's not unusual to need to reverse servos on many stock models.

We found, once we got familiar with the set-up instructions menu and fine tuning our TX's, the "tool" worked pretty well.......it is somewhat of a pain to get used to and programming/fine tuning in harmony with the TX is very time consuming.......That said, I and the two other buddies who had the AR636, no longer bother with it and we have gone back to stock configuration.........All three of the planes were 3D capable, but we all preferred just to master our skills old school. That's enough to deal with, without the additional "what if's-what-now's" and is it me or the "tool set-up" questions always in the back of our minds.......just our observations and opinion on this unit.......
Thanks - there are so many little quirks with this RX programming software/procedure and the one you noted is another one that I was not aware of. I've been in IT for 20 years and have seen some not ready for prime time software and this whole RX programmer is right up at that top.

I just want to fly and not have to wrestle with this software just to do so. I, like you will probably never use another AS3X RX in a receiver ready build. I know there's a ton of debate about it's "usefulness or place" in the RC world. I don't want to go there. To each his own as far as I'm concerned. But I'll never use it again unless the get their programming process streamlined and bug free.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by stanz358 View Post
... I had no reason to reverse aileron servos and they the switch position was listed as being in normal position....
You most certainly did. Your reason to reverse the aileron servos is that they were moving in the wrong direction. You need to verify every movement of every surface during setup. You did not verify that the ailerons were moving in the correct direction. Evidently, you crashed models configuration of aileron/servo is not what you radios default configuration considers "normal".


It's not a flaw in the equipment.

Seasoned veteran RC pilots still make this mistake. It appears to be one of the easiest to make. Consider it a lesson (albeit unfortunate) learned and you now have a very vivid reminder to not let it happen again.

Last edited by birdDog; 06-05-2016 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 06-05-2016, 03:01 PM
  #9  
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I get asked to test fly planes all the time. I have learned to take the plane away from the builder/assembler and hold the sticks right to make sure the right aileron goes up and the rudder moves right. Then I pull the elevator stick back and hold while I verify that the elevator moves up. A large number of flights stop here as one surface is not correct. Every one responds that they followed the instructions and it was set up correctly.

Another point is that once I changed servos in the ailerons to get more torque, went from hitec to hobbico and the ailerons reversed. They moved fine but something was not right and I was lucky not to destroy that plane. So different servo brands can move in different directions.

Hold the sticks and check the movement. Do not just wiggle them. Do it every time and your crashes will be from something else besides set up.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:58 AM
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stanz358
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Originally Posted by Flubber View Post
I get asked to test fly planes all the time. I have learned to take the plane away from the builder/assembler and hold the sticks right to make sure the right aileron goes up and the rudder moves right. Then I pull the elevator stick back and hold while I verify that the elevator moves up. A large number of flights stop here as one surface is not correct. Every one responds that they followed the instructions and it was set up correctly.

Another point is that once I changed servos in the ailerons to get more torque, went from hitec to hobbico and the ailerons reversed. They moved fine but something was not right and I was lucky not to destroy that plane. So different servo brands can move in different directions.

Hold the sticks and check the movement. Do not just wiggle them. Do it every time and your crashes will be from something else besides set up.
Yes - this lesson I have learned....well.
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