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Hobbypartz LSD Batteries

Old 01-24-2011, 04:02 AM
  #1  
cbatters
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Default Hobbypartz LSD Batteries

Is anyone running these in their transmitter? How do they compare to Duracell or Rayovac LSD batteries in terms of capacity and charge retention?

Very convenient to purchase if quality is good. (no postage , no minimums)

http://www.hobbypartz.com/77p-recharge-aa-2200-4.html



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Old 01-24-2011, 05:34 AM
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Couldn't find any data on them. This may be worth looking at:
2010 AA Low Self Discharge battery review

The majority of CandlePowerForum folk are still firm believers in the Sanyo Eneloops.
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
Is anyone running these in their transmitter? How do they compare to Duracell or Rayovac LSD batteries in terms of capacity and charge retention?

Very convenient to purchase if quality is good. (no postage , no minimums)

http://www.hobbypartz.com/77p-recharge-aa-2200-4.html



Clint
Agree with flydiver, those Sanyo Eneloop cells are very good. I've been using them in my Canon SX20IS camera, and their shelf life is better part of a year.

One place to buy them:
http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Agree with flydiver, those Sanyo Eneloop cells are very good. I've been using them in my Canon SX20IS camera, and their shelf life is better part of a year.

One place to buy them:
http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm
No question that the Sanyo batteries are good. My question and the goal of this thread was to find if anyone had any experience with the LSD batteries from Hobbypartz which are less than half the cost of the Sanyo batteries.



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Old 01-24-2011, 06:51 PM
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Good luck. Probably you'll have to go it alone. Not a lot of $$ risk. Let us know.
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:01 AM
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Agreed. I'll scoop a set and see how they compare to the other LSD batteries i have been using.


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Old 01-25-2011, 10:45 AM
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They're probably a rebranded version of one of the other brands of LSD cell... AFAIK there are only a few companies actually producing them... I believe Kodak, RayoVac, Sanyo, GP and a few others, are some of the companies with their own cell. I can't be certain though, as this is all by memory and I haven't double-checked.
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Insomniac View Post
They're probably a rebranded version of one of the other brands of LSD cell... AFAIK there are only a few companies actually producing them... I believe Kodak, RayoVac, Sanyo, GP and a few others, are some of the companies with their own cell. I can't be certain though, as this is all by memory and I haven't double-checked.
Batteries are branded EMB with a claimed capacity of 2200 mah. The packaging indicates Made in China and manufactured by BPI. Batteries measured 1.31V which indicates they have a reasonable charge out of the package.

More data as I do a few tests and actually use them in my DX6i transmitter.





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Old 01-25-2011, 05:44 PM
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OMT: I bought a set of cheap NIMH batteries off of eBay labeled "BYI" with 2500 MAH rating and have been impressed thus far with their self discharge characteristics. (after several months I am still getting 1.3 volts per cell)


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Old 01-25-2011, 06:12 PM
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NiMh batteries, especially the higher mA models are getting to be a real crap-shoot. I've got some that are fine and others that are a complete disappointment - won't hold a charge at all. Careful cycling is of no help at all. By comparison some of my older brand name low mA (1500-2000 range) are years old and work well.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:58 PM
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I hear you. Not sure what to think when I see 3800 MAH AA NIMH cells on eBay but a little voice inside says "warning". Historically I have had good luck with Panasonic NIMH cells.






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Last edited by cbatters; 01-25-2011 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:09 PM
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I think the seller is going to be happy to make a sale and the buyer is going to be pretty pissed off. Got to be complete and utter garbage. Reasonable AA seem to absolutely top out around 2700 and still work OK from my experience and reading.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:39 AM
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I charged up the EMB batteries and will post how long it takes for the voltage to drop from 1.42V to 1.35V.

Unfortunately there is no published relationship between capacity and voltage. As a separate project, I will try discharging the batteries noting the voltage every 100 MAH removed from the batteries to see if there is at least a crude rule of thumb that can be used to correlate voltage to capacity.

Appreciate any guides people may already have correlating remaining capacity to open cell voltage on NIMH cells.


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Old 01-26-2011, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
Unfortunately there is no published relationship between capacity and voltage. As a separate project, I will try discharging the batteries noting the voltage every 100 MAH removed from the batteries to see if there is at least a crude rule of thumb that can be used to correlate voltage to capacity.

Appreciate any guides people may already have correlating remaining capacity to open cell voltage on NIMH cells.


Clint
Unfortunately, IMHO, no solid relationships exists between the open circuit (or load test) voltage on a Nicad or Nickel Hydride cell and its remaining ampere hour capacity. I've done many load discharge tests on this subject to verify this issue.

Take a look at my thread on how our radios work, specifically the first section on Nicad and Nih batteries.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45173
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:21 AM
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I hear you. Trying to see if we can come up with some very simple and crude correlations. (I.e. 1.3v equates to 80% remaining, 1.25v less than 30% available.)



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Old 01-26-2011, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
I hear you. Trying to see if we can come up with some very simple and crude correlations. (I.e. 1.3v equates to 80% remaining, 1.25v less than 30% available.)



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IMHO, don't work that way. The discharge voltage vs ampere hours is to flat to allow voltage measurements to give indications on remaining ampere hours. That little effect has caused the loss of more than a few models over the past years for pilots that depended on a simple voltage check to determine if it is safe to fly with a receiver battery.

(Before retiring, the company I worked for used about 600 24 volt Nicad packs a month, plus even more replacement batteries for our high voltage circuit breaker controls. And, working in the Service Department, I ran many, many tests on these batteries over the 44 years I worked for that company. )
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:01 AM
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Thanks for your input and experience. From looking at a lot of charge/discharge data online, there are only a few things that can be determined from voltage on NIMH cells.

1.4V+. 100% capacity (fully charged)
1.3V 70% capacity
1.2V-1.3V. Unknown


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Old 01-27-2011, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
Thanks for your input and experience. From looking at a lot of charge/discharge data online, there are only a few things that can be determined from voltage on NIMH cells.

1.4V+. 100% capacity (fully charged)
1.3V 70% capacity
1.2V-1.3V. Unknown


Clint
A year or three ago, I did some testing on receiver batteries with my home made battery analyzer. This testing was described in my article on how our radios work. The testing is copied below:

It can very easily be shown that the battery voltage of a Nicad Cell has absolutely no relation to its total charge level. What is needed is a fully charged Nicad battery, and a battery discharge device that records voltage while the battery is being discharged. Your editor built a Microcontroller device that does exactly that, and is able to discharge anywhere from one cell to 30 cell Nicad packs at discharge levels between zero and two amperes. Using this set up, a standard 600 MaHr Nicad Pack was discharged down to 1.05 volts per cell, or 4.2 volts for the entire pack. This 4.2 volts indicates a totally discharged battery. Next, these voltage readings were plotted in Excel.


Then the battery was given a charge of exactly 60 MaHr. The battery test was repeated with the same exact set up. At the end of this 60 Milliampere charge, 10% of battery capacity, the battery measured one percent less then the when it was fully charged. You could have a 10% charge in a battery and go flying using the voltage measurement test. Guess what happens next.

The resulting crash will be blamed on the Nicad battery, not the guy behind the transmitter stick.

I've since repeated this test with my Western Mountain CBAII battery analyzer with identical results.
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:09 AM
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Without the critical analysis I've seen exactly that.

Take a completely dead NiXX (zero volts) that is rejected by a 'smart charger', put it in a 'wall wart/slow/dumb charger' for a minute, effectively only putting in a few 10's of mA and then it will measure > 1 volt easily (if it ain't completely defunct). This is measured without any load, just a voltmeter.
Now the peak termination charger will happily accept it and charge it up.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:52 PM
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Thanks again for very interesting real world experience. I will try to repeat the test that you did and see if it is possible to have 1.3 or 1.4 volts on a battery that has virtually no capacity left. My test is on an disconnected battery (not being charged or discharged)

My goal is to see if there a voltage threshold that can be used to indicate 50%+ capacity on a NIMH battery that is being subjected to self discharge in a transmitter. Also trying to see if open cell voltage during storage can be used as a figure of merit of the remaining capacity of different types of LSD cells.

Appreciate all of your input.


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Old 02-08-2011, 11:59 PM
  #21  
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I just received two packs of these batteries and I just put 4 of them on my Triton charger and discharged them down to 4.8 volts at .5 amps. I would assume that you need to condition these batteries just like regular nimh batts. They are 2200 mah so what should I charge them back up at. I already have one set of batts that I didn't condition and they have never given full rated capacity. These batteries are $5.99 for a pack of 4. It cost Hobbypartz $5.37 postage to send me my 2 packs now that is a good deal. Just hope these batts are ok

Last edited by crash-rc; 02-09-2011 at 12:06 AM. Reason: add
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Old 02-09-2011, 12:55 AM
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Most everything you need to know:
http://www.camlight.com/products/faqs_2.html#q8
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:13 AM
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I started over with my charge/discharge of 4 of these EMB LSD batteries. Charged them up at 300 mah, didn't pay attention to how much was put in, I have now discharged them down to 1 volt per cell at 300mah. I took 2202 mah out of 2200 mah cells. Charging them back up at 200 mah and will check how much I put back in.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cbatters View Post
I charged up the EMB batteries and will post how long it takes for the voltage to drop from 1.42V to 1.35V.

Unfortunately there is no published relationship between capacity and voltage. As a separate project, I will try discharging the batteries noting the voltage every 100 MAH removed from the batteries to see if there is at least a crude rule of thumb that can be used to correlate voltage to capacity.

Appreciate any guides people may already have correlating remaining capacity to open cell voltage on NIMH cells.


Clint
Try here - best I ever found on this ....

It also illustrates why it's so hard to sort capacity against voltage ...

http://www.powerstream.com/AA-tests.htm
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:34 AM
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There's been many posts on many forums about this subject and I have to say that no-one seems to have defined exactly who is and who isn't LSD apart from eg Enerloops .... I know from my own experience I've bought over counter standard NiMH and found certain brands to give excellent LSD characteristics without the price premium of Enerloops etc.

Very few over counter cells have been poor that I bought. But some have been poor in power delivery. I've had reputable brand cells give poor performance and cheap unknown brands excellent.

I have to admit that I prefer to make sure Tx etc. is charged before use ... and high capacity NiMH ( 2600mAH ) coupled with a standard 50mA charger gives me good results. I can charge indefinitely with such set-up .... I know when I get to flight line - my Tx is 100% ready. I also know that I have more than enough capacity to use Tx for significant number of hours ....

I also like the idea that I can swap out cells as they fail ... which if treated well can be years ........
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