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Converting PZ Spitfire to brushless

Old 02-20-2009, 08:10 AM
  #501  
DetroitHawk
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Dont listen to that propaganda, the fact is the faster you are moving the less travel you will need with your ailerons, the key is to make slow wide turns and you will be just fine.

The people who crash often blame it on "the planes' fault" but the pilot in control of the plane many times is the one to blame.

"with great power comes great responsibility"
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Old 02-28-2009, 06:51 AM
  #502  
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Hi everyone!

Im new to this forum, but I have been reading a lot from it. I bought a Parkzone Spitfire about a month ago, and been flying it a couple of times since then. I soon figured out it was to slow, so I decided to go BL + LiPo. I ordered the following parts from hobbycity.com:

Motor: TURNIGY TR 35-30B 1400kv Brushless Outrunner
ESC: SuperSimple 40A ESC
Battery (x2): ZIPPY Flightmax 2200mAh 3S1P 20C

Also ordered a charger (IMAX B5), Master Airscrew props (8x5 and 7x5.5) motormount and some small stuff.

Today I recived the parts and installed them. I use the original radio and reciver. It seem to be working fine, but I have heard someone saying the orginal radio/reciver wont work if you upgrade to BL. Anyone that know of any problems using the original radio/reciver (ZX10)?

Havent flown her yet with the BL and LiPO, but im planing on trying her tomorrow if the weather allows it.

Basically ive build the same as jason74 in this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1001049 , so a big thanks go to him, and also DetroitHawk who have given me some good ideas and posted a lot of good information, thanks!

- PilotBRS

Last edited by PilotBRS; 02-28-2009 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:05 AM
  #503  
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PilotBRS

You have spent a bit of cash on the plane now and made it quite a bit faster. It would make sense to go to a beter radio, especially if you parkfly where anyone may pitch up and switch on another tx (go 2.4G)... Not everyone is diligent about the frequencies they fly on.

The stock tx will probably work ok if it tests fine. I have heard of people saying that the BL speed control/motor generate frequency interference (and it is quite likely it does) on fm but not seen it yet myself.

Enjoy the plane! I'm loving mine witht the 1450Kv motor. hehehehe
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:30 PM
  #504  
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Okay, thanks. I think I will use the ZX10 at first, and when I have saved up some money, I will probably go for the DX6i.

I don't think I will try her today, the winds are 12 knots and gust 18 knots, so no good (at least for the maiden). Ive also added some CF in the wings to reduce the flexing, and stop them from splitting during a high G maneuver

Ive also been thinking about doing the wing clip mod, but im not sure just yet. I want better roll-rate, but also I don't want to do anything I will regret. Are there any negative sides of doing this mod? Will the stall-speed increase, etc?

- PilotBRS
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Old 02-28-2009, 09:45 PM
  #505  
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Here are some pics of my bird (sry for the new post, but cant post pics befor I have 3 posts):



- PilotBRS
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:23 AM
  #506  
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Originally Posted by PilotBRS View Post

Ive also been thinking about doing the wing clip mod, but im not sure just yet. I want better roll-rate, but also I don't want to do anything I will regret. Are there any negative sides of doing this mod? Will the stall-speed increase, etc?

- PilotBRS
The surface area that is removed is a rather small % of the wing lift area, BUT when you go to roll it is much faster. Even if you mod the wing and somehow it just doesnt seem right, the wing is rather cheap to replace.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:49 AM
  #507  
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Im just back after the maiden flight with the new setup. The flight went very well. The thrust where just amazing, and she acclerated very quickly. Around 35% power seem to be giving me the same speed as top speed for the stock setup, but at around 60% power, there seemed to be a barrier. I did not get any significant higher speed from 60% to 100% power. This may have something to do with my propeller. I use a MAS 8x5, maby it would help going up to 8x6? I do not have any tools to measure the amps to the motor, so if anyone has any idea if this will be to much, or what prop you think will fit the best, please tell me.

I also have a 7x5.5 prop, if I understand this right; this prop will give me higher top speed, but lower accleration.

What prop size do you think will be the best for my setup? Thanks

- PilotBRS
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:59 AM
  #508  
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the 7x9 prop is boss on this plane for speed, BUT you might be set with the 8x5 prop for over all fun, your plane is faster then anyone's PKZSpit that you are ever likely to run into.

With the max out props i used (8x6 and 7x9) i was only running on a hacker A30-22s motor rated for 30 amps and i was pushing past that and the C ratings on my lipos. You might not have that problem.


The clipped wings also reduce airframe drag and will give you a little boost in speed.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:58 AM
  #509  
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Hi PilotBRS

Looking good there. I am tempted to do invasion stripes too.

I had the same issue when I upgraded mine,. Accquired a wattmeter and found the battery was letting me down (C rating...)

The C rating tends to be overstated as far as I can see. Make sure you have a decent (25% would be about right) margin above what you are drawing from it.

It would be a good idea to get a wattmeter or borrow one from someone to test the setup.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:21 PM
  #510  
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Good looking plane and NICE set up too.
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Old 03-03-2009, 04:42 PM
  #511  
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Originally Posted by PilotBRS View Post
Here are some pics of my bird (sry for the new post, but cant post pics befor I have 3 posts):



- PilotBRS
BTW it's probably not a good idea to fly this plane inside you room like that.



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Old 03-08-2009, 01:36 AM
  #512  
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Today I upgraded the radio to a DX6i and the AR6200 rx. Havent tryed it yet in the field, but seem to be working fine. Gonna try her tommorrow.

I was also out flying earlier toaday with the ZX10 radio (befor upgrade) when the engine suddenly stopped. Was on my second LiPO, and had flown for about 3-4 min on that battery. I had control over the plane, but no power, so i dunno if it was interference or what. Battery was fine with around 11.4v when I checked with the charger after. Also the engine worked fine after landing. Right befor that, I did have some fun with a flock of small birds (trying to hit them, which I ofc didnt) and an eagle! The eagle was looking on my plane and was like; wtf is that, so he took a couple of rounds and checked out my plane. I did try to fly after it, and that was fun! The eagle actualy tryed to dive after my plane for about a sec, when he realised he werent gonna get it . I did have a Flycamone v2 on the plane on this flight, so if someone is interested I can upload it to youtube.

Edit: I did upload it. You can see the video here (click HQ to see birds easier): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCAcCnmJ_tc

- PilotBRS

Last edited by PilotBRS; 03-08-2009 at 03:49 AM.
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:21 PM
  #513  
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Just came back from my first flight with the new DX6i. It did NOT go well! Everything seemed to work fine, and it did for about 1 minute, and then I lost power and smoke came from the plane! Could glide it for about 5 sec, and then everything stoped working. Was a hard landing, but it survived.

When I ran over to look on the plane I saw at once that it was the ESC that had burned out (*#!& SuperSimple #*% ). The flames did destroy some of the foam on the fuselage, and one servo arm. Also there was 4 microchips from the ESC that was melted into the fuselage. Also there was solder (?) everywhere, and the ESC was not recognizable.



Can anyone recommend a good ESC for my setup? Preferably from www.hobbycity.com. Is 40amp enough?
Is this one better?: TURNIGY Plush 40amp
Thanks!

- PilotBRS
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:35 PM
  #514  
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what prop were you using when this happened?
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Old 03-08-2009, 08:36 PM
  #515  
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I used the MAS 8x5...
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:38 PM
  #516  
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PilotBRS
With an 8x5 you are close or over 40A, I think.
I draw 36A peak with a 8x4 on a 1450Kv motor...

Last edited by LectricPlane; 03-10-2009 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 03-09-2009, 11:59 PM
  #517  
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Okay, thanks. I just ordered a new ESC; TURNIGY Plush 60amp. Hope 60 amps is enough

I also ordered a new brushless motor; TURNIGY TR 35-36A 1450kv.
Its a bit bigger, but has a lot more power. The only thing I am a little conserned about now is the battery. Its a 2200mah Zippy 3cell 20C, 25-30C burst, but I think it will do fine. Also ordered a Watts up, so now I can check the amp, watt, etc.

Anyone have any idea how many amps the DX6i reciver (AR6200) use? The BEC one the Turnigy ESC is 3amps.
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Old 03-10-2009, 02:02 PM
  #518  
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Originally Posted by PilotBRS View Post
Anyone have any idea how many amps the DX6i reciver (AR6200) use? The BEC one the Turnigy ESC is 3amps.
The reciever will not be a problem for current draw.
It's the servos you need to watch out for. With 3A BEC I'd say you are quite safe unless you are using some unusually large digital servos for this plane.

The wattmeter is essential! Good buy.
To tell if your battery is ok you need to check the Vmin on the wattmeter with the motor running at higher/full throttle and preferably for a minute or more. I am not certain of what the values should be but I look out for anything less than 10v on a freshly charged lipo as a bad thing.

Remember to check that the current draw is within the manufacturues stated specs of the motor/esc/battery as a starting point.
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:49 PM
  #519  
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Have done some testing with the new motor and speedcontroler. Used the watt-meter to measure the current-draw on WOT with different props (all MAS). Got these results:

7x5.5 = 34A
8x5 = 44A
8.5x6 = 54A

Will probably use the 8x5 prop for now, which was the same I used for the other motor and the speedcontroler that caught on fire. The battery is rated for 44A constant and 55-66A burst, so think that will be fine. The speedcontroler is 60A, so no problem there, but the motor im am not sure about. This is the information from hobbycity:

Max. efficiency current : 15~25A
Current capacity : 35A/30s

So will 44A be to much for the motor?

Have not tested her yet due to winds, but will come back with an update on how it goes. The weight has increased a little due to heavier speedcontroler and motor, but I dont think it will be a problem.

- PilotBRS
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:50 AM
  #520  
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Originally Posted by PilotBRS View Post
Have done some testing with the new motor and speedcontroler. Used the watt-meter to measure the current-draw on WOT with different props (all MAS). Got these results:

7x5.5 = 34A
8x5 = 44A
8.5x6 = 54A

Will probably use the 8x5 prop for now, which was the same I used for the other motor and the speedcontroler that caught on fire. The battery is rated for 44A constant and 55-66A burst, so think that will be fine. The speedcontroler is 60A, so no problem there, but the motor im am not sure about. This is the information from hobbycity:

Max. efficiency current : 15~25A
Current capacity : 35A/30s

So will 44A be to much for the motor?

Have not tested her yet due to winds, but will come back with an update on how it goes. The weight has increased a little due to heavier speedcontroler and motor, but I dont think it will be a problem.

- PilotBRS
Your numbers will be off if you are testing the motor/prop in a static bench test. When the plane is in the air the air is passing into the prop as fast as the plane is traveling +/- wind. The numbers you have i would think are a little higher then they will be in flight.

You should have no problem with that 8x6 prop, i wouldn't try and fly a whole battery at WOT, but you will find this plane will be as fast as you would want to go with this plane. they call for a 9x6 prop which would use more power but give you a lower top end, that 8x6 should work just fine.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:10 AM
  #521  
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Today the weather was very good, so I decided it was time to try my newly upgraded bird. Here are the reports:

1st attempt: I was very nervous because it had been a long time since I'd been flying, and also I don’t have that much experience yet. The launch was not that good. I used 40-50% power witch maybe was not enough. It rolled over to the left and I almost stalled the plane, but I got control over it and got some height, where I trimmed her out. After about 4-5 minutes in the air at 40-50% power, I was getting confident so I decided to add some power. I moved the throttle quickly up to 80-90% power, and then it happened. The engine ripped itself apart from the motormount! The plane entered a steep dive before I had time to react. I cut power and glided her in for a landing that was not very good. It survived, but got some cracks in the cowling.

2nd attempt: After I got back from my first attempt I glued the engine to the motormount. Earlier it had only been jammed, but now it is jammed and glued with superglue and epoxy. After about an hour I was back. The launch this time too was not very good. It rolled over to the left, probably because I pulled elevator full back at once and maybe I didn’t use enough power. Anyway, I got it up and flew at 40-75% power all the time. After I while the battery was getting low, so I started losing power. I glided it back with power to idle, but on final approach the speed was too high, so I decided to go around. Of course I lost power after a couple of seconds, so had to make an emergency landing. Landing was hard, so the prop got wrecked, but apart from the landing it worked out pretty well.

When I came back from the 2nd attempt and plugged the battery in the charger, I got an unpleasant surprise. The charger recognized my battery as a 2cell, not 3cell! I started charging it and I saw the voltage was way to low (below 8v). Checked the cells and one was around 2.4v and the other around 2.7v. Stopped charging after about 30 sec and reconnected the battery. Luckily this time the charger recognized it as a 3cell, and charged it normally

After this incident I discover that the cut-off voltage on the ESC was set to 2.85v per cell, so now I have moved this up to 3.1v per cell. Also I forgot to unplug the battery after the flight, so the receiver was probably draining the battery even more on the trip back home

- PilotBRS
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:16 AM
  #522  
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I like to launch at WOT and rocket the plane into the sky, i also launch at a 45 degree angle of attack.

Well its good to hear your plane has made it past day one, time to think of how you could of made that day less stressful for the next day.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:19 AM
  #523  
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
I like to launch at WOT and rocket the plane into the sky, i also launch at a 45 degree angle of attack.

Well its good to hear your plane has made it past day one, time to think of how you could of made that day less stressful for the next day.
Totally agree...I go by the 3G's...Give her hell..Get her up...Go flyin
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Old 06-17-2010, 03:22 AM
  #524  
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Well, it has been a while since anyone posted to this thread, so here goes. I am getting ready to upgrade my Spit with a TR 35-36C 1100kv Brushless Outrunner. I have a milled aluminium mount for it that are available on EPay. I got an Exceed 40A ESC and 2 11.1v 2200mah 20C batteries. I have a couple of EFlite 10X8 props which fit nicely on the shaft of the motor. I just got my esc today and bench tested the motor with the prop on. Holy Crap. I better CF the heck out of this thing or it will be a mess. I just hope that I have the prop right, I might also try a 10X6 on it. I know that I will be putting CF in the wings and across the saddle, I may also shove one up the tail. I am not looking to have a rocket, but I may not have a choice with this motor. Oh well, I can always fly around at 1/4 throttle.
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Old 06-17-2010, 07:24 AM
  #525  
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Originally Posted by tarheal63 View Post
Well, it has been a while since anyone posted to this thread, so here goes. I am getting ready to upgrade my Spit with a TR 35-36C 1100kv Brushless Outrunner. I have a milled aluminium mount for it that are available on EPay. I got an Exceed 40A ESC and 2 11.1v 2200mah 20C batteries. I have a couple of EFlite 10X8 props which fit nicely on the shaft of the motor. I just got my esc today and bench tested the motor with the prop on. Holy Crap. I better CF the heck out of this thing or it will be a mess. I just hope that I have the prop right, I might also try a 10X6 on it. I know that I will be putting CF in the wings and across the saddle, I may also shove one up the tail. I am not looking to have a rocket, but I may not have a choice with this motor. Oh well, I can always fly around at 1/4 throttle.
Yeah, be gentle - the only bit I would worry with is the batteries - they are 20C which means 40+ amps would probably heat them up a treat (no good) - and you will probably be pulling 36-38 with the 10x8. For me that's cutting it close and starts to shorten your flight time - but for others its okay.

Run it over on the wattmeter if you get a chance.

I can also recommend retrofitting the stock Trojan/Corsair prop to this motor for good speed/thrust - it is a 9.5x7.5.

Good luck and keep us posted!

GRU

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