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Learning to use a Hi-Start to launch your glider

Old 02-19-2010, 09:22 AM
  #51  
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Would there be many or any danger's attaching a high start to the tow bar on the car?!?!?!
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Old 02-19-2010, 04:57 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Huffy01 View Post
Would there be many or any danger's attaching a high start to the tow bar on the car?!?!?!

That depends on if the car is moving or stationary.

If moving (and I would personally qualify that idea as dumb):

The first problem is that it will take too long to 'get to speed'

The next problem is that the car will create a huge turbulance in the air right in front of the glider.

Another problem is: Who is flying the glider while someone is driving the car?


If stationary, and you are just using the car as a anchor... no issues at all. A parked car is the same as a nail in the ground, anchored to a brick, tied to a tree, or duct-taped to the nearest modern art-sculpture
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Old 02-20-2010, 12:59 AM
  #53  
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Well ,I really did mean "stationary" but you did reminded me once some one told me if I had a R/C car I could launch a gider from it.
For some reason ,it really became a thinker, How heavy the car would have to be?, what speed you would have to do? , How smooth the ground would have to be? If the car went over a bump/jump would it rip the plane in half? etc.
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Old 02-20-2010, 01:53 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Nitro Blast View Post
The next problem is that the car will create a huge turbulance in the air right in front of the glider.
Well I guess then we couldn't aerotow either, huh?

The turbulence wouldn't even be noticeable. The plane would be much higher than the car, almost instantly...

But I agree, with the car moving it wouldn't be too smart. Just using a stake would be best. If something happens on launch, and the glider doesn't go up, it could get expensive.

Lets not go tying high starts to trees either. That might be in the bad idea range of ideas...
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Old 02-20-2010, 04:46 PM
  #55  
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Probably shouldn't admit this but my brother and our kids launched a Oly 650 and a 2M Gnome many times some years ago being towed from a little Honda 3 wheeler ATV. We used about 400 feet of braided fishing line in a large pasture. Dont need extreme speed just a jogging pace into a little breeze. After the glider popped off the ATV driver just circle around us and we grabbed the line with leather gloves and he went out and waited for the tow up again. Kids got to drive the ATV and we got to fly, Win Win situation!!!!!!!!

Bob
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Old 02-20-2010, 11:52 PM
  #56  
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Works for me!
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:56 AM
  #57  
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I haven't used a high-start before but I have some 8mm silicone bugee and a 'chute on order at the LHS.
Last night I bought my second unpowered sailplane.
I don't know what brand it is but it's a 3m ,4 channel a/r/e/s .
My other sailplane is a full house Great Planes Spirit Elite.
Which sailplane should I start learning with??
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:06 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Huffy01 View Post
I haven't used a high-start before but I have some 8mm silicone bugee and a 'chute on order at the LHS.
Last night I bought my second unpowered sailplane.
I don't know what brand it is but it's a 3m ,4 channel a/r/e/s .
My other sailplane is a full house Great Planes Spirit Elite.
Which sailplane should I start learning with??
Have you ever flown an RC Airplane?

My recommended first glider would be a Multiplex Easy Glider.
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:13 AM
  #59  
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I have had a Parkzone Radian for about 1 year and 4 months.
The only other R/C I have going at the moment is an Eflite MCX S300.
I also have a Phoenix simulator.
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Old 04-02-2010, 05:16 AM
  #60  
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http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54889
Here's the link to the 3m sailplane that I bought last night
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Old 04-02-2010, 11:38 AM
  #61  
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OK, now I know what hi-start to recommend.

I believe Stepp is the name of the plane. I will see if I can find some info on the plane and post it in your other thread. What is important here is that I now know it's weight at 78 ounces. You want a 3M hi-start to launch that plane. It will also launch the Spirit Elite just fine.

Get the NESail Pinnacle Large - $90
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=874

Or

the Aerofoam Hosemonster
http://www.aerofoam.com/hosemonster.html
3Meter/50 foot rubber 250' Line $130.00
3Meter/100 foot rubber 500' Line $165.00

Many say the hosemosters are the best HS around. I used a 2M model once and it seemed very nice, had a nice stretch and a good release. I have been very happy with my Pinnacle, so I can recommend that too.

Follow the instructions in the thread on learning to use a hi-start and you should have no problem. Pay close attention to the recommendation that you MUST be able to get a good hand glide before trying to launch this on a hi-start of a winch. If your plane will not glide out nicely from a hand launch then you could have a disaster on the hi-start.

Also get the fish scale, as I recommend. You will only use it a few times to help you get the feel of the desired pull, but it is a good investment. This is especially tru for you as you have two planes of very different weighst, so you want to get the right pull for the best launch for each plane.

If the Elite is built properly and has no damage it will take all the power this hi-start can provide so don't be afraid of too much pull. More important is to be sure you have enough. I assume your Elite will be in the 44 to 48 ounce range. So you will want to launch at 9-15 pounds of pull once you are ready for a full launch.

I don't know what sort of wing rod and spar system you have in the 3M plane but, again, I would not expect it to have any problem with handling the hi-start. That plane is almost 5 pounds so you will want at least 15 pounds when you go for a full launch and 25 pounds would not be too much. I think that hi-start can provide at least 20 pounds so it should be a good match for that plane.

When you are ready to go to full pull launches, you may wish to get some help for the first launch or two so you can be ready on the radio, in case something goes wrong. Holding a glider with the hi-start pulling and you trying to handle the radio in the other hand can be a bit akward at first, but once you get the hang of it, it will be no problem.

The topic of this thread is "Learning to Use a Hi-start" and I would like to keep it focused on that. I will jump in on your other thread, in case you need some set-up help.

Last edited by AEAJR; 04-02-2010 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 05-05-2010, 05:27 AM
  #62  
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I got the rubber for my high start yesteday ,it's not latex its silicone rubber ,alot cheaper than latex .
It comes in 10m lengths so I need 2 joins to make the final 30m for the high start.
I remember that a wooden dowel is used to join the lengths together but I can't remember if a screw or a thread is used as well.
I know glue isn't used because the tube has so much elasticity it will break a glue joint.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:34 PM
  #63  
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I am not sure of the grip character of silicone rubber but with latex rubber you can just slip a wooden dowel into the tube. As you stretch it the grip gets tighter.

I have never joined rubber sections, but what I have read is that people recommend you use a hardwood dowel that requires you to stretch the tube a bit to slide it in. I would try to get it into the tube at least 3 inches, then test the grip. If you cut some shallow circles around the tube, or perhaps some cross hatches, this will give the tube something to grab on the dowel as it tightens.

I have not tried this, but if you are able, try to fold the tube back over itself for 3-4 inches. Then position the dowel at the end of the tube and try to roll the folded tube over the dowel. If that works, it will probably be the easiest way to get the dowel in that far, especially with the rings or cross hatching cut into it.

Now, spike down one end. Tie a string to the other end that is at least 100 feet long and try some test pulls.

With latex rubber you can usually stretch it 3X the rested length. Not sure about silicone, so you will have to experiment. Using a fish scale you can measure the pull. The pull should go up as you stretch it. If the pull suddenly starts to jump a lot with very little additional stretch you are at or maybe a bit past the safe limit ... stop.

What's the outside diamater, OD of the tube as well as the ID of the tube? Where did you buy it?

I think the typical 5/16" latex tube with a 1/16 wall will give you 12-15 pounds of pull on a 3X stretch. This is your typical hi-start for 1.5-3M planes. Good for 1.5-4.5 pound planes which covers a large range of planes.

3M+ hi-starts often use 3/8" which will go to about 20 pounds, roughly. Good for 2 to about 6 pounds.

4M+ might use 1/2" that will give about 35 pounds of pull. Good for 3 to about 10 pound planes.

Actual numbers will vary by wall thickness and formulation, but these should give you some target ideas. I would be interested to see what you get with the silicone rubber.
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Old 05-05-2010, 03:29 PM
  #64  
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I order the tube from my local hobby store ,I think it was sourced from the US.
Sorry, I dont know the equivalent imperial measurement but the outside diameter is 8mm and the inside diameter is 5mm.
I just had a try at rolling the tube back and didn't have much luck.
Silicone isn't as good as Latex but 30 metres cost me $40 compaired to $150+ for Latex tube!
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Old 05-05-2010, 06:20 PM
  #65  
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That would be about 3/8 inch, so you can compare to the list I made. I will be very interested to see what your pull tests reveal.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:08 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Huffy01 View Post
I order the tube from my local hobby store ,I think it was sourced from the US.
Sorry, I dont know the equivalent imperial measurement but the outside diameter is 8mm and the inside diameter is 5mm.
I just had a try at rolling the tube back and didn't have much luck.
Silicone isn't as good as Latex but 30 metres cost me $40 compaired to $150+ for Latex tube!
Have you had a chance to try out your new hi-start?
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:00 AM
  #67  
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I haven't done anything at the moment.
I bought some 6mm dowel and have tested it and it seems to be the right size.
It's only 1mm bigger than the inside diameter of the silicone rubber.
I pushed the dowel in about an inch and a half . It is stuck in firmly and cant get it out.
I still have to buy some key rings and some kind of strong line.
I also have to workout how to attach the line to the rubber.
But by far the biggest reason why I haven't built the high start is I don't have a plane yet to launch from it.
I could safely say I will launch the Great planes spirit elite. I am still waiting on some iron-on covering which is on back-order.
The Stepp-Upp is far from being finished.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:06 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Huffy01 View Post
I haven't done anything at the moment.
I bought some 6mm dowel and have tested it and it seems to be the right size.
It's only 1mm bigger than the inside diameter of the silicone rubber.
I pushed the dowel in about an inch and a half . It is stuck in firmly and cant get it out.
I still have to buy some key rings and some kind of strong line.
I also have to workout how to attach the line to the rubber.

snip ....
You can try key rings, but remember that there is going to be quit a pull on them, so use very strong ones.

Better to use solid welded rings like these.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

I think I usually use about about a 1.5" to 2" welded ring for the rubber on the end where I will spike it down. Just slip it through the ring and tie a knot.

Then I use a steel spike for the ground, usually with a washer.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

As for the airplane end, if you buy a commercially available parachute then the rings are already attached. I provide these as examples.
http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=2625
http://www.4mrkite.com/Chutes.html

The parachute works with the wind to bring the line back toward you and makes it easier to find in the grass. The brighter the color the better. Mine are pink or orange.

Or you can just tie a steel ring onto the airplane end. Take your fuse to the hardware store and see what will fit ver loosely into the gap between the hook and the fuse. If you are not going to use a chute you might tie a brightly colored streamer to the airplane end, say something 1" wide and 1 foot long, to help you find the end in the grass.

I use pink Mason's line. It is strong and easier to spot in the grass than monofiliment.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

Others use monofiliment fishing line. Antying over 40 pound test should be strong enough for the pull and to stand up to some abuse. It is lighter than the Mason's line but harder to see in the grass. Here is an example.
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...rid=2146251080
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:27 PM
  #69  
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I have a parachute ,fluro pink with fluro yellow thread.
I didn't even think about a solid steel ring .
I live on a property at the moment so I was thinking of using an old 4x4 paddock basher to attach the high-start too.
I think I could find an old star dropper and shape it with an angle grinder.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:20 PM
  #70  
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Go, man, go! You're going to love launching with a high start. Suggested accessory, a young kid who loves to run after and retrieve the parachute. You can then easily retrieve the high launch, anchor it to a large nail in the ground and be ready for instant relaunch on hand catch. That is absolutely fun.
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:09 PM
  #71  
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If I don't have the kid to chase the chute, and if the field is open, where I would not interfere with anyone, I use the chute as my landing target. So as I am flying I walk to the chute. Then, when I land I try to put the nose of the plane on the chute.

Then I pick up the plane, the chute and stretch off for another launch.
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:56 PM
  #72  
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Well, I've been shopping and bought some steel/galv rings some 80lb/150m fishing line and some huge 74kg swivels.
I've got to do some wire work on the swivels,I have one on the bungee/fishing line end and one to go from the fishing line to the parachute.
The steel rings I bought I'm going to use on the stake end but they are too heavy for the end of the parachute.
I have joined up the 3x10 metre silicone with wood dowel , I guess I cut them about 2 inches long and on seem to hold well.
I have bought a luggage scale so sometime I will get a rating.
Nothing's going my way at the moment .All my money has been going towards fixing cars and it has been about 4 months waiting for one roll of covering to finish my Sirit Elite.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:37 PM
  #73  
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Just be very careful that you use stakes on both ends that cannot be pulled out of the ground by the hi-start. If you were to use a steel spike that was too short, it becomes a LETHAL spear, flying through the air at 50-100 mph. People have been killed that way.
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Old 09-27-2010, 01:48 AM
  #74  
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Typically you have the stake, then 100' rubber then 400 feet of line. It would be a miracle for the stake to come out and travel 500 feet much less have the power to hurt anyone.

I doubt anyone has ever been killed by a hi-start spike.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:32 AM
  #75  
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I forgot where I read the story but it was recently. There was a person close to the anchor spike, not the flier of the plane, who would be too far away for the spike to reach. Basically it was a person who should have been prevented from being in the area. I would imagine if you had 100' of elastic stretched to 300 or 400 feet, anyone standing from halfway of the length of the elastic to the spike could be in danger of being stricken by a very fast-moving spike.

Under normally controlled circumstances there wouldn't be anyone in the danger zone at all. And I agree that the flier would not be in danger because he is isolated from the spike and elastic by a length of non-stretchable line extending a hundred to 400' depending on the hi-start's size.
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