Wattflyer RC Network: RC Universe :: RCU Magazine :: RCU Forums :: RCU Classifieds :: RCU User Reviews :: RCU YouTube
Home Who's Online Calendar Today's Posts RealTime Post Spy Mark Forums Read
Go Back   WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Warbird Electrics
Register Members List Wattflyer Extras Articles Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Social Groups

Warbird Electrics Discuss e-powered warbirds in here!

Thank you for your support (hide ads)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-02-2005, 11:12 AM   #26
Bundy
Member
 
Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
Posts: 45
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to Bundy
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi John

Lots of ideas there - thanks. I will really have to be very thorough checking for interference if I end up using the flight battery for the amp's power. Some rigorous trials with an old trainer will be needed with the power setup of the Corsair.

What sort of sound file does Thomas require? High rpm, low rpm and what length? Other than internet .wav files are there any more definative, profesional recorded sources of radial engine sounds?

Know what you mean about that whine. I first had a Hacker fitted with a planetary gearbox which had a real whine then the Plettenbergs although direct drive really do have a harsh background noise. The AXI 5330 are really very quiet, I will try and get a video of a fly-by with them this weekend. Isolation mounts are a good idea though.

Happy flying

Richard
Bundy is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 08:24 PM   #27
Gordon
Member
 
Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braunton, North Devon, England
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Richard

It's good to meet up with you again, and I'm glad to see you're still in the business of developing big scale models.

When I replaced the geared Maxcim (the noise from the MEC gearbox was far too noisy and intrusive) with an AXI 4130/20 in my 6s4p 6200 Lipo powered Tiger Moth, I thought that all I would hear would be the swish of the prop.

Not so

The AXI emitted a loud and constant whine at low and intermediate throttle settings, which was eventually drowned out by prop noise at full power. At low to intermediate throttle settings, and especially at the cruise throttle setting, the thing sounded like a Rolls Royce Nene (very inappropriate for a Tiger Moth ), and I suspected that the tone was coming from the Schulze F32.55 esc.

As I have no other big escs I couldn't experiment using a different one for comparison, so I made the isolation mount system depicted below, and this did the trick. The large black washers are cut from 1/2" diameter neoprene cord.

Now the whine is very subdued at low revs, inaudible at mid to full power, and almost inaudible at cruise power, being drowned out by prop noise. Originally, the airframe had been acting as a louspeaker cone, with the motor energising it.

I made a similar mount for the geared Maxcim in my Kyosho CAP 232 running at about 900W compared with the 700W max of the Tiger Moth, but the gearbox noise was scarcely reduced at all, which I thought was strange as well as disappointing.

Thinks .... since my orginal jet-engine noise must have come from the esc, I wonder if one could modulate the motor current with a full size engine sound?

Gordon


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	x 01.JPG
Views:	817
Size:	69.4 KB
ID:	1192   Click image for larger version

Name:	x 02.JPG
Views:	933
Size:	83.6 KB
ID:	1193   Click image for larger version

Name:	x 03.JPG
Views:	996
Size:	88.6 KB
ID:	1194  
Gordon is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 09:44 PM   #28
luc
Member
 
luc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 86
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

that should come from the esc, as I have 3 motors 4130/16 with no noise.
esc I use are jeti 77 opto (2) and a hacker 48 opto.
luc is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2005, 10:52 PM   #29
Gordon
Member
 
Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braunton, North Devon, England
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Very interesting! A clubmate has a 4120/14 with a Jeti esc in a big biplane, and that motor which is rigidly mounted in the airframe sounds just like my 4130 did originally.

My bipe is Solartex covered, and his uses Profilm. One wonders if the covering style has something to do with these two noise phenomena. Do your models have rigid sheet balsa covering, or open structures with fabric or film covering, Luc?

Gordon
Gordon is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 07:16 AM   #30
luc
Member
 
luc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 86
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

std structure wings with front part of the wing covered and back part with open structure.
fuse is plywood/balsa classic.
I don't hink that this may have any influence...
I use alu motor mounts such as this one (on another plane)


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	moteuraccusp.jpg
Views:	731
Size:	93.0 KB
ID:	1206  
luc is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2005, 03:54 PM   #31
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Richard,
Sorry for the long delay in replying, I did not get a reminder that you had posted. To answer your question about sound files, what Thomas needs is a fairly good recording of the actual motor revving up, and if possible starting and stopping.

Mine was on the net and the revs were not at full power. He took it and adjusted it electronically and played it back to me over the phone so we could agree what the top rpm would sound like. The starting and stopping sounds were located on a separate part of the circuit so that they would activate when you switch the sound on and off. The trick here is to slide the throttle stick forward to tickover when the startup sound is broadcast. Thomas also took a flypast sound and programmed it to a separate triggerable part of the circuit, but this is not the right sound, you need the one where the recorder is standing in front of the plane.
Thomas already has the gun sounds and he has many other engine files although they are not aero engine files.

I have seen Gordon's flexible engine mount. It is an excellent design and it seems to be the right way to go if you have motor whine problems. As most of our large scale WW2 planes will have sheeted structures then they can resonate. This actually helps to amplify the loudspeaker sound if it (or they) are fitted in the wing. The wing sounding box in between the ribs really helps. However with the power that the speakers are putting out on the HE111 they broke the joint between the ribs and the top sheeting, so this needs to be glued fairly well!

Good luck with the cricket, we are doing a rain dance here!

All the best,

John
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2005, 04:20 PM   #32
CorsairJock
Member
 
CorsairJock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Parchment, MI
Posts: 201
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

OK, I have an R2800 starting up, and idling, about 50 seconds long. Now, if I can only post here:

Looks like a no-go: MP3 is "invalid file". I can e-mail it to some-one (who is maybe more computer savvy than I am).
CorsairJock is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2005, 10:35 PM   #33
Bundy
Member
 
Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
Posts: 45
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to Bundy
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Sounds

Hi Guys

Thanks for the info John. I've nearly got my sound files sorted (but would love to hear what you have found CorsairJock) and I'll soon be sending them over to Thomas and see what he can do for me. Attached is a pic of the VERY crude test rig I've been using to see what is possible. At 50 meters and 80% volume this thing really does sound the part. I was a little concerned the sound from a real R2800 wouldn't sound right coming out of a 1/6 scale F4u but to my ears and eyes it is just right.

Interesting point about the sound causing structual problems. The Corsair's shape will be built around a solid 120mm central 'box' which will be the sound box. The speaker will mount on the firewall and with fully operating cowl flaps, that big radial opening at the front and venting from the 'box' thru the scale opening under the wings I'm hoping enough sound will get out - time will tell.

I've got an 80" Bronco nearly finished which I'll use as a test bed for the sound system and check for interference problems then I'll be starting on the Corsair hopefully having it flyable by Xmas. I've got most of the bits already with the Robart retracts arriving yesterday. How about a new thread on the electrification of a Brian Taylor 82" Corsair?

Any chance of getting to hear your Corsair sounds CorsairJock by emailing it to me??

As for the cricket John - I'm 44 and can't remember ever not having the Ashes ( altho you poms never actual let us have them!) so I guess it is only fair we give you a sniff of victory to keep you enthused. What do they say - " there is nothing so sweet as the silence of an English cricket crowd" Best of luck

Richard


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	test rig.jpg
Views:	906
Size:	16.7 KB
ID:	1344  
Bundy is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2005, 09:34 AM   #34
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Richard,
You are making good progress, glad you have all the files. Corsair Jock kindly emailed me the R2800 starting up sequence and it is really good. Suggest you contact him and ask if you can compare that with what you have, as it would make a really good start to the sequence.

On the subject of sound coming from the rear of the speaker? suggest you should probably do some tests first as you will find that the acoustics may get worse if the sound waves from the front cancel out the soundwaves from the back of the speaker. If you are only broadcasting from the front of the speaker then ignore this comment. I have also been advised that it can help to load the speaker by putting a funnel or horn over the front (like a loud hailer).

The HE111 was flown again last night and it sounded really good just rumbling across the sky. I am sure that soon most scale planes will have sound.

If you do send your files to Thomas, ask him if you can have a larger 'dead band' than me, so that small tickover trim changes will not make the engine roar into life. I have mentioned this to him before, but it would be good to remind him.

Can't bear to watch the cricket!

All the best,

John
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2005, 12:44 PM   #35
modeldesigns
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 79
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Richard,

Yes, an 82" Electric Corsair build thread would be most appreciated!

Richard, John, CorsairJock,

Keep up the great work on the sound systems.

Pete.
modeldesigns is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2005, 03:57 PM   #36
luc
Member
 
luc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 86
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

thx to post the tune here...
luc is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 12:49 AM   #37
Bundy
Member
 
Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
Posts: 45
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to Bundy
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi All

Thanks for resending the mp3 file CosairJock - got it this time. That is a great sound- where did you get it from? Is there a 'full bore' version of the same quality? The stereo seperation of it adds a fullness to it but I think a 70 watt stereo sound system is a little beyond this first Corsair

I think you are right John that a lot of experimenting will be needed to get the best sound. From what I've been reading a well designed bass- reflex vented box would have some real advantages at the lower frequencies and in effeciency but get it wrong and it can be a lot worse than the sealed box. For a sealed box to work at its best they say it should be constructed out of some solid material that will not flex - 5/8" ply or better which is not really practical in a plane of this size.

There is plenty of information on the net on how to design and build boxes for car stereos so I guess I'll have to get my into it and then play a little.

Can't you Englishmen do something about the rain over there? There is cricket to play!

Richard



Bundy is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2005, 09:32 AM   #38
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Richard,
It has just stopped raining here, I am getting quite worried. I may have to go quiet for a while...... We are very good at losing, we have had a lot of practice!

Good luck with the experimenting, and the search for the sound of the motor running up, and shutting down - if possible. That start up sound from Corsair Jock is very good.

All the best
John

john
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2005, 10:40 PM   #39
Bundy
Member
 
Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
Posts: 45
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to Bundy
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Sound Files

Hi All

And hello Gordon - great to see you in here. Just to get it out of the way we all know cricket is just a game and real winner from the Ashes series is cricket. Well done guys but don't too comfortable!

Fantastic idea for motor mounting Gordon. I hope to get a test set-up of the front end of the Corsair with the motor mounted on the sound box done in the next week or so and see what it all sounds like.

I've attached a file here as a zip file. It is a recording of one of the B-25's AXI 5330/18 mounted on a solid aluminium mount turning a 18 x 10 APC-E. Does this zip file format work and does it sound like what you think it should?

Richard


Attached Files
File Type: zip V004.zip (53.2 KB, 615 views)
Bundy is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2005, 08:48 AM   #40
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Bundy,
Yes, we will probably let you have the Ashes back in 18 months time, but for now now after 18 years, victory is sweet. Don't be too hard on your team, they played very, very well (as usual).

The sound file does work and it sounds good. It appears to have less whine than my 4130/16s in the HE111. So it should be OK to drown out with the sound from the speaker output. However, any sound isolation mounts that you can make for the motor will only help the situation.

What speaker do you intend to use and how heavy is it?

All the best,

John
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2005, 09:28 PM   #41
Bundy
Member
 
Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
Posts: 45
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to Bundy
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Amplifiers

Hi John

Following up our amp discussion - this amp I'm using http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...uct/View/K5401
is rated at 36W RMS continuous into a 4 ohm load when using a 13.8V supply and 70W music output. Without the heatsink it weights 59g (2oz).

The power supply for it must be able to supply atleast 6amps @ 13.8V to stop its muting circuit cutting in if the supply voltage drops below 8V.

There are a few other amps which need further investigating like http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.st...alogs/SUPZ6115

I really need to get one into a plane and check for interference problems - maybe the Bronco - plenty of room for a speaker in there.

Richard
Bundy is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2005, 09:44 AM   #42
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hello Richard,
Thanks for the information. It looks like the second amplifier is similar to the ones that Thomas supplied to me. Therefore a bit marginal in output.

With the amp that you have, if you can test it, can you measure what current it is using at full power on 12v? It would be a rough comparison against my two, assuming the efficiencies are rougly similar.

What is the weight with the heatsink? I have found a manufacturer in the UK who supplies prebuilt 30w RMS amps without heatsinks at 70g each and with at 170g. The HY1420 and HY2000 amps are on ilpelectronics.com/amplifiers/audio

I might ask Thomas's advice as to whether either of these would be suitable. The 2000 version seems as if it could be driven directly off the supply pack, if less that 30v. The 1420 version costs £15.

Regards,

John
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2005, 11:32 AM   #43
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Richard,
Thomas says he uses ILP Electronics and the 20w amp is good but heavy with the heatsink. The 30w amp is only good for plus and minus 12v so it is unsuitable unless we have a specialised power supply. The man at ILP said that it is impossible to get more that 20w from 12v unless the amps are banked up or if the loudspeaker impedance is reduced. I am no electrnics expert, so perhaps you can shed light on this? It appears your amp will work on 12v, so it will be interesting to note the current draw at full load.
All the best,
John
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2005, 03:42 PM   #44
Gordon
Member
 
Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braunton, North Devon, England
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Guys

This is a really interesting thread and thanks for keeping it going.

I'm going offline for two or three weeks, but I thought that I'd throw in an address for a pretty cheap 40W amp which should work off a 16V DC source, eg a 5s Lipo.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...7737&doy=16m9D

The next item down in the left-hand margin is the pre-amplifier referred to in the write-up.

I know no more than what's in the write-ups about these so they might be no use. However this address, found by clicking the FAQ tab, has more info:

http://www.kemo-electronic.de/en/module/m034/index.htm

The PDF description downloaded from this site does have an English paragraph with mounting information.

John .. one thing to beware of with the 30W amp you mentioned is that it needs an AC power supply, which means that it can't be battery powered, and it looks as if all the higher power ILP amps are the same.

Cheers

Gordon
Gordon is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2005, 01:34 AM   #45
Bundy
Member
 
Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
Posts: 45
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to Bundy
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Amps and Pre-Amps

Hi Guys

I was just thinking about pre-amps this morning Gordon because I'm not sure of the ouput levels from Thomas' sound board. Your link shows such things do exist if needed - good to know.

The attached pic shows my test rig at 84% volume ( don't we love digital precision!) with tired batteries in the mp3 player and the family telling me to shut the noise up. At full tilt it gets close to its claimed 6 amps so any regulated power supply derived from the flight batteries will have to able to cope with this load.

The Corsair will have a 8000mAh 10S4P li-po rated at 12C continuous so even with motor loads around 50amps peak there should be room for the sound system to run from the same battery assuming no interference problems are encounted. A seperate battery for the sound system is always possible and I think the weight wouldn't be great issue in a plane of this size.

The weight of the heatsink John is 130g but I plan on not using it instead mounting the TDA1562Q chip onto the motor mount in the airsrtream. The amp has an inbuilt 120 degree overload protection which shuts it down to half power if things get too hot.

You are right that generally it is impossible to get more than 20watts from a 12v supply. From the literature, this amps acts as a normal BTL amp upto 18watts but when a higher output is required the internal supply voltage to the power amplifiers is "jacked up" by using the "Lift -Supply" stages to switch in two external electolytic capacitors. There are no detailed specifications as to how the "lift-supply" stages works.

I've got a circuit diagram for it if this would help explain things.

Hope this helps

Richard


Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20050916_0003.JPG
Views:	541
Size:	50.0 KB
ID:	1642  
Bundy is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2005, 09:47 AM   #46
Gordon
Member
 
Gordon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Braunton, North Devon, England
Posts: 26
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Guys

Just another quicky before I disappear:

This website http://p38whitelightnin.com/gallery/ has some video of Lefty's P-38. Both show the full engine start-up sequence with audio, then taxi, then a lot of flying though most of this has music added.

I downloaded the right-hand video and then imported it into Windows Moviemaker. The result was a big bunch of short clips which could possibly be used to make a sound file for start-up, taxi, and perhaps in-flight with some fiddling, if anyone knows how to extract just the audio and then load it into a playback device.

Back soon!

Gordon
Gordon is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2005, 10:24 AM   #47
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Richard and Gordon,
This is all really good research, The Kemo 40w amp seems to be music power so it is probably 20rms and equivalent output to the one that Thomas supplies. I like the look of the Kem 50 and 80watt amps though! That should wake em up.

Richard, your amp certainly is performing, as my two amplifiers are only drawing just under 3 amps (total) flat out. Did you make it from a kit and do you know if the supplier sends stuff to pommieland?

I have e mailed Thomas to ask if he can help with a more powerful amplifier.

Best wishes Gordon.

All the best,

John
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2005, 09:09 PM   #48
Bundy
Member
 
Bundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
Posts: 45
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via MSN to Bundy
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Guys

Yep my 70 watt amp is a kit but was an easy build. If you can solder you can build this one and yes they do internaional mailorder. I got mine from one of their retail outlets which are everywhere here in Australia so if you are chasing one and have any trouble with mailorder just let me know and I'd be able to help you out.

My 2 CD Corsair sound set has arrived and although done for a different target market with lots of fly-bys passes, group engine start-ups and shut- downs there should be enough to send to Thomas. Hope to get that away this week and see what he can do for me.

All good

Richard
Bundy is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2005, 11:53 AM   #49
Johnr
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 176
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default

Hi Richard,
Thanks for the information, I have heard from Thomas that the amplifiers he sold me are 20w music power each, so my two are only delivering 20w rms total! That would explain my lower current usage.

So that means the sound can be nearly doubled using one amplifier. Good news indeed. I will probably order one of the 70w amps and have a play.

Hope Thomas can use your new sound files. Keep up the good work.

All the best,

John
Johnr is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2005, 03:08 PM   #50
modeldesigns
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 79
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
iTrader: (0)
Friends: (0)
Default Pioneering sounds...

Hi everyone,

This link should take you to a short video of Johns He111 'running up' captured at Baldock E-Fly (North London) last Sunday. Hope you enjoy the sounds!

http://video.google.com/videopreview...+4%3A06+PM+PDT

You may have to download Google Video Player,

http://video.google.com/video_download.html

and need Windows 2000 or higher.

Pete.
modeldesigns is offline  
  Reply With Quote
Reply

  WattFlyer RC Electric Flight Forums - Discuss radio control eflight > Electric R/C Airplanes > Warbird Electrics

Tags
radial , real , sound


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale For Sale: RAM Electronic Devices for RC Airplane Radial Engine SOUND jodini General RC items For Sale and WTB 0 03-06-2008 02:43 AM
himax 2208 radial mount? jb48 Power Systems 4 11-30-2007 11:34 AM
Radial mount 400XT -can I use wood screws? phupper General Electric Discussions 4 07-15-2007 04:33 AM
Pilot Figures, Radial Engines Sky Sharkster Warbird Electrics 0 01-25-2006 03:01 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:02 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 WattfFlyer.com
RCU Eflight HQ

Charities we support Select: Yorkie Rescue  ::  Crohn's & Colitis Foundation



Page generated in 0.23253 seconds with 75 queries