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Parkzone Radian: Battery size/weight and placement.

Old 11-04-2008, 05:16 PM
  #1  
boiko
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Default Parkzone Radian: Battery size/weight and placement.

After hearing from David @ HH it's clear that battery size/weight and placement will be of more importance on the Radian then on many other planes. If you have the RTF, you already have I believe the new 1300 battery included. But for many of us buying the PnP version, this is a choice still left to be made.

- For anyone with the RTF version...can you weight the included 1300 battery - how much does it weight?
- For people with PnP versions, what batteries are you using are are you planning to use?
- How will all of this change the CG/Batttery placement.?
- What's the largest battery able to be flown on the Radian...while keeping decent gliding performance?

Thanks,
-mike-
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Old 11-04-2008, 10:00 PM
  #2  
Zapped
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I just had my Radian out for its first extended flight this morning, but honestly I hadn't checked the weight or COG. I was proud enough that I check the servo setup & did a range check on the Spektrum D5Xe radio before getting it in the air

I'll take the measurements after work and modify this reply with the details (instead of a new post).

While I was waiting for my pre-order to come in I was also considering a second battery. From my notes, the e-flite 1250mAh weight was 4.3oz, the 1800mAh came in at 5.4oz, and the 2100 mAh tips the scale at 6.6oz. I can't imagine an extra 1 to 2 oz would kill the performance of this glider that's advertised at 30oz with the 1300mAh battery, but I'm no glider expert.

I can tell you that I had a lot of climbs in my dawn flight and a total time of 1h20m, with no sign of weakness in the battery when I had to pack up and head to work. I doubt I'll want even a second battery let alone a larger one.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:11 AM
  #3  
Zapped
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Default Radian weight

I decided to make a separate post because I need to have three posts to be able to add links.

Total Radian weight including battery = 738g, or 26oz exactly

That was measured on my 2kg-capacity digital postal scale which reads accurately in grams or 0.1 oz.

Next I measured the pieces separately on my small digital scale which is supposed to be accurate to 0.1g.

Fuse (no battery, but everything else installed) = 396.9g (14.00oz)
R Wing = 102.0g (3.60oz)
L Wing = 99.7g (3.52oz)
Wing Spar = 36.4g (1.28oz)
Battery = 99.1g (3.50oz)

Total of separate parts = 734.1g or 25.9oz
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:11 AM
  #4  
Zapped
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Default Radian balance

I used the eraser end of two #2 pencils to balance the model with battery installed. That's with the battery insterted into the aft part of the compartment, sticking out about 1 inch & velcro'd in place. The COG was almost exactly 2.5" back from the LE of the wings.

Here's what the compartment looks like:
Battery Compartment Image #1
Battery Compartment Image #2
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:54 PM
  #5  
AEAJR
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Specs
  • Wingspan:78.7 in (2 m)
  • Overall Length:44.7 in (1140mm)
  • Flying Weight:30 oz
  • Motor Size:PKZ 480-size, 960Kv brushless outrunner
  • CG (center of gravity):62mm behind the leading edge of the wing
  • Speed Control :E-flite 30A brushless ESC with Switch-Mode BEC
  • Recommended Battery:11.1V 1300mAh Li-Po
  • Approx. Flying Duration:Flight times in excess of 30 minutes when using the ParkZone 1300mAh Li-Po battery and limited motor run
These are the specs from the PNP product page on the Horizon web site.

So the question is how much room is there to move the battery back?

If the battery sits right on the CG, then there is no issue. But if the batter is in front of the CG, as part of the weight used to balance the plane, then putting a heavier pack in the same place will make the plane nose heavy.

An ounce or two of extra weigth is not going to kill the plane's overall performance but if you place an ounce or two in front of the CG you will make the plane nose heavy which will hurt its ability to ride thermals and reduce its glide time. The further forward you place that weight, the more nose heavy the plane will become.

So, where does the battery sit as compared to the recommended CG? Is there room for a larger battery.

Last edited by AEAJR; 11-07-2008 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 11-07-2008, 06:58 PM
  #6  
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Zapped,

1:20 on the stock battery pack is impressive, and you say you had capcity to spare. Great!

Are you an experienced glider pilot? Do you know how to work thermals? Did you find lift that morning?

How long were your climbs, in seconds, approximately? How many climbs did you make?

If you made 10 climbs and did 80 minutes, that averages 8 minutes on a climb. Nice.

Any real long flights?


Also, is the wing rod hollow? Where does it sit relative to the CG? Is is right on the CG?
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:11 PM
  #7  
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A note on color.

As an experienced glider pilot I can tell you that catching and riding thermals is a great thrill. To see your plane rise high into the sky with the motor off is an amazing sight.

It is common for glider pilots to fly their planes VERY high and many of us fly them quite far out. A plane of this size can easily be flown to 1000 feet and 1/2 mile out.

I note that the plane is mostly white on the top and bottom. If you decide to add some color, my suggestion to to make the bottom of the wings dark and keep the top white or light in color.

The dark bottom shows up very well against the sky. I use black, dark blue or red. At a distance they all go to black.

As you fly, when you bank the plane, it becomes very obvious when you are looking at the bottom of a wing or the top. This can be a huge help when flying high or far out. You don't have to do this on the first day, but as you become more confident with your Radian and start to fly it high and far, remember what I said about color.
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Old 11-08-2008, 04:20 PM
  #8  
Zapped
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Hi Ed. Sorry I didn't catch these question yesterday, but here I am after another nice morning flight with the Radian.

Experience as a glider pilot = none. I've got the Old Buzzard's Soaring book from a friend; understand the basics, but I've been flying so early in the morning I haven't found thermals yet. This afternoon I plan to hit a field just east of Austin where other glider pilots might be around to give me some pointers.

I mentioned in another thread that with 4oz of ballast I only got about 30 mins. This morning the battery conked out after 55 mins. So maybe that first morning I actually did find a little lift & didn't know it. During that 1h20m first flight I might have climbed a dozen times to a few hundred feet, but I honestly wasn't counting.

My climbs don't seem to be more than 10 or 15 seconds before I fear that the 2m plane is too small to judge orientation easily. When I come down to maybe 10ft above ground & punch the throttle to 3/4, it shoots up like a rocket. I need a little down elevator to stop it from shooting straight up & stalling.

The wing spar is hollow. It sits 0.10 to 0.15 inch forward of the recommended COG (2.5" back from LE). O.D. is 0.388" (10mm), I.D. 0.300" (7.6mm).

Good advice about painting the underwing. I think I'd go for the dark blue since it would match the existing sticker color scheme. Is there a particular paint recommend for this Z-foam, and should I be concerned with weight? I think I've seen some Rustoleum spray paint that claims to stick/bond to just about anything from plastic to wood to metal.
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Old 11-08-2008, 04:44 PM
  #9  
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PAINT

Personally I don't like rustoeum. Their main claim to fame is to stop rust. As such they put on a fairly heavy coat. I hear very good things about Krylon's H20 series of water based spray paints.

Some people have used the water based spray polycrylic as a base cost to seal the foam, then use pretty much anything on it.

Unless you go crazy, weight should not be an issue. You don't have to get an absolutely solid color, so light coats built up will do nicely. You can try colored tape as well but that stuff eventually starts to peal and really mess up the air flow on the wing.


Thermals can be anywhere and they can be low. I once flew my Supra ( 3.4M competition sailplane, no motor. Launched from a winch. ) at or below 400 feet for 9 minutes because there was fog over the field. You could not climb high. You just can't do that without hitting lift, though I would not say I ever hit something that felt like an actual thermal. However if the plane is holding altitude, you are in lift.

If the wing rod is hollow, you can go to the local home depot type store and see if they sell steel rod that will slide inside. Or perhaps an aluminum rod that will replace the wing rod at higher weight.

Again, ballast is totally optional and certainly would not be used in anything but windy conditions where not having ballast would make for difficult flying.

> The New Glider Pilot's Handbook
> http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11050

> Thermaling for Beginners
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208889

The first is a collection of links to help new glider pilots. Some of the resources point to the web site for the Eastern Soaring League, a competition sailplane league. I am President of the ESL.

> Novice Lounge - The Eastern Soaring League
> http://forums.flyesl.com/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=14


In addition to thermal soaring, the Radian would be great for slope soaring.

> Introduction to Slope Soaring
> http://home.att.net/~charles.french/CASA/JEF_SlopeIntro.html

I hope you find these helpful. I am very happy to help anyone who is intersted in soaring.

Ed Anderson
Vice President Long Island Silent Flyers
President and Newsletter Editor, Eastern Soaring League
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:32 PM
  #10  
phillipmorris
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HI Everyone, my skeds been so busy lately been a challenge to fly when lift is present as in md-day, but I can tell you if its near sunset, don't despair lift tho usually weaker is there, I've hit several at this time period, as now the days are getting dark so early won't even be able to fly after work soon....so if there is any time before sunset, check it out !!

Early day its more difficult at least for me to find much lift, but today was off and had an opening to fly right around noon, sun broke out, and viola found two nice lifts in my short period of flying under 45 minutes as my sked again...but she went right up both times each at oppostie ends of the field, best way I can describe lift for a newcomer is it wants to throw you out of it, so simply head right back in with downstick if required, on lighter lifts watch the wing tips slightest change and you might be near some thermal activity...did some tight circling in the lift zones and she held altitude easily, this puppie goes up with ease, believe I did only two or three throttles, I don't attack high simply coast out easily near half throttle, then after altitude cruise for any lift zone...<>..

On the landings after your more confident with the Radian, simply circle and zig zag to lower elevation, you'll be amazed how well she then deadsticks all the way across with ease, keep that nose level and downstick if she's coming in abit high, later its a piece of cake, lovely landings with this one indeed...<>.

Take this info as a grain of salt, but just read a sailplane mag months back on Dynamic Soaring, usually a slope involved and or over the water as ocean, are birds that take advantage of this, I really can't explain this one well but you use an eliptical circling and fly extremely low and then back up to make this all work, but I was over some trees intown tho aways up and did this eliptical fast down one way then up for lift and she was up there near 10 minutes before finally losing the effect, perhaps I was in light lift instead but it was quite an experinece none the less..regardless was super fun...<>..so much to discover and learn, great...<>..
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:05 PM
  #11  
TDisaster
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I've been looking at one of these lately. I'm new to gliders too. I've got an Electra with a T-tail and a Wanderer with a powerpod. The one thing I noticed with the Electra is if I have power on its all over the place, even a little throttle. Yet when I'm gliding around its more crisp and responsive. Is the Radian like this? As of now the Electra is the only glider I have ever flown (waiting on an esc for the wanderer), so I'm not sure if they are all like this.
Thanks guys,
Mike
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:41 PM
  #12  
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Just go abit easy on the throttle even at 1/2 she will go up nicely, as the Radian hits airspeed watch the nose and downstick if required, she's easy to fly but pay attention as with wrong stick can do a turnaround, its very predictable, I'm abit aware of what your asking, I do have the larger Ventura, and it likes to zip around abit on launch but again downstick keeps things in order, flew the Radian moments ago in 15 MPH winds its a winner, half throttle up she goes, near 30 minutes of fun as now leaving for work, trust me, you'll love the Radian...BEST ..<>..
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Old 11-17-2008, 02:54 PM
  #13  
AEAJR
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Originally Posted by 3Disaster View Post
I've been looking at one of these lately. I'm new to gliders too. I've got an Electra with a T-tail and a Wanderer with a powerpod. The one thing I noticed with the Electra is if I have power on its all over the place, even a little throttle. Yet when I'm gliding around its more crisp and responsive. Is the Radian like this? As of now the Electra is the only glider I have ever flown (waiting on an esc for the wanderer), so I'm not sure if they are all like this.
Thanks guys,
Mike
I don't know what that means. No reason for your plane to become unstable under power.

Note that e-gliders are optimized for power off flight, not power on. If your plane wants to climb too steeply under power, then stalls and starts to climb again you, as the pilot, have to control it.

Either use a computer radio to trim in some down elevator with the throttle, or do it manually. Don't let it climb steeper than the motor can handle.

If you are having some other problem, then you need to work on trimming the plane. I suggest you start a different thread and ask for help. But this thread is about hte Radian.
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Old 11-22-2008, 02:12 AM
  #14  
blunight
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Default Signaling lift

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if my Radian is out of trim or not; it has to do with how it acts in strong lift. My plane will lift its nose then stalls, lifts its nose, then stalls repeatedly when in strong lift....it takes me a little bit of time to get ahead of the plane to smooth out its flight path but once I do, everything seems fine!??
My question for the experienced glider pilots out there is - am I over correcting - do I need to move weight forward or (gasp!) add weight to the plane in these conditions
Trent
MN
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Old 11-22-2008, 12:21 PM
  #15  
phillipmorris
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If this only happens in the stronger lifts, doubt that your out of trim or need change in COG...

I'm not the competitive sailplane flyer, but enjoying the current radian and years back my very first learning experience was gliders, still my favored planes..<>..

I've flown the Radain in lift light and somewhat strong lifts, your stronger lifts can actually push the plane right out, my technique is to down stick when I hit the thermal wall, you could simply apply some downtrim helping keep the nose from lifting too much, there is a feel for this, after you aquire more thermals it becomes an easy task...new pilots have a tendency to overcontrol a sailplane as it takes a moment for the ship to respond to your stick, eventually you'll learn to fly ahead of the responses and its a piece of cake...sure more will give even better advice..the really strong lifts can give the novice fits at the start, but hang in there, it eventually becomes second nature and your in for some thrill rides...BEST ..

Note correct stick is likely the issue here, even on my launches been awhile since I've flown a glider with the performance as the Radian, even once in awhile during my launch at over half throttle, if I'm not down sticking at the right moment the Radian can turn on me, so these issues are simply getting the feel for things, this Radian is certainly an enjoyable flyer and true floater...<>..

Settings on my Radian are as follows, the battery about 80 percent inserted, if there is abosolutely no wind I fly a minimal with weight towards the tail, careful here you want control, but really gives a nice super float, my elevator is minimal downtrim, just a smidgen here, then adjust later if needed when inflight, I'm not aggressive on the launch, right at or near half throttle she goes up with ease, you can spot lift easier as your gaining altitude instead of going right thru a light thermal and missing it...adjustments may vary for each flyer and his preferences, its simply how I'm enjoying mine todate..<>..BEST ..<>..

Last edited by phillipmorris; 11-23-2008 at 06:19 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:53 PM
  #16  
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I'm also interested in the COG you are all using. I have flown with it all the way in, and almost all the way out is where the book says to put it..

I didn't realize until about 20 flights in that I was pushing the battery ALL the way in, and was trimming the elevator DOWN.

I then started moving the battery to where the front edge matches the front edge of the plastic that holds the velcro.

Today, after marking the COG on the wing/fuselage, I realized to make it balance, the battery is BARELY in the hole..

So.....

I kinda like the way it flies with the battery almost all the way out, but 80% in is what I got used to, and it floats and flies FOREVER.


I am going to try it again about 50% in and see if I can feel where it settles between slight forward (stock) and full back.
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:10 PM
  #17  
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This past weekend, I finally got to maiden mine. Granted, it wasn't the best of conditions for the maiden of a big foam floater, but I did it anyway. All of the descriptions on climbing were spot on, she'll jump right up there. The big problem I had was wind gusts. We had a steady wind of 5 mph or so, but the frequent gusts up to 15-20 mph made it a bit tricky. I ended up porpoising a lot, but eventually caught on to the flight characteristics. I'm really looking forward to summer when the thermals pick up. She's definitely a keeper!

BigB, to balance, I had to have mine hanging most of the way out too. I shoved a piece of foam down the battery shaft to keep things from shifting backwards. But my battery sticks about 70-80% to maintain COG.
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:18 PM
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On mine the best performance is about 80 percent with the battery in, a competive sailplane flyer flew mine and said it was abit nose heavy !! Radian will handle forward on the battery, but re-check the COG on specs, again believe it ends up near the rod or spar..with winds you add ballast at the COG, mine handles near 15 MPH with battery just slightly more forward, perhaps not correct but currently the way I fly the Radian...lifts are out there right now, mine went up 40 minutes before sunset yesterday, and at noon today as am off work able to make the mid-day flight and it about went out of site...already its time to fly, hi hi...BEST ..<>..
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Old 03-17-2009, 03:45 AM
  #19  
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When its windy, its more fun, faster, and better when its nose heavy with the COG forward.. Almost all the way out is fun.

On gliding days, almost all the way in to the velcro works best. I can hover it in mid air. it floats forever.

Ive got about 75 or so flights now on it, and Im ready for a new plane..

I want full control - ailerons, flaperons, the whole works. 2.5m or so. powered. carbon. you name it.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:53 AM
  #20  
AEAJR
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Originally Posted by BigB View Post
When its windy, its more fun, faster, and better when its nose heavy with the COG forward.. Almost all the way out is fun.

On gliding days, almost all the way in to the velcro works best. I can hover it in mid air. it floats forever.

Ive got about 75 or so flights now on it, and Im ready for a new plane..

I want full control - ailerons, flaperons, the whole works. 2.5m or so. powered. carbon. you name it.
Glad your are enjoying the Radian. It is a great R/E soaring glider.

I have a whole fleet of gliders including pure and electrics, R/E and full house competition planes. But I still enjoy pulling out my R/E gliders to enjoy soaring in its simplest form.

Keep that Radian. You will enjoy flying it years from now.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:01 AM
  #21  
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I agree - everyone should have one!
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Old 03-18-2009, 09:04 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by boiko View Post
After hearing from David @ HH it's clear that battery size/weight and placement will be of more importance on the Radian then on many other planes. If you have the RTF, you already have I believe the new 1300 battery included. But for many of us buying the PnP version, this is a choice still left to be made.

- For anyone with the RTF version...can you weight the included 1300 battery - how much does it weight?
- For people with PnP versions, what batteries are you using are are you planning to use?
- How will all of this change the CG/Batttery placement.?
- What's the largest battery able to be flown on the Radian...while keeping decent gliding performance?

Thanks,
-mike-
I have a PnP Radian AUW 28.6oz with a 5.2oz TP 2100mah 3cell. It balances at 2.5" behind the le with the battery almost all the way back in the cavity.

I plan a motor change soon that will reduce the weight by at least 2oz with more thrust.
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Old 03-31-2009, 02:06 PM
  #23  
mrsand
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Default CG and Battery

What I do is mark the CG on the wings with dots at 2.5 inches...then I shift the battery until the balance on the CG is on...I observe the battery location in the compartment with a reference point to repeat it again.
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Old 04-07-2009, 06:07 AM
  #24  
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Just put a Thunder Power 2100mah 3 Cell Lipo in it today, and it flies perfect with the battery all the way in, and the COG is dead on.

Flies forever, and seems to have a little more power. I'll time my flights, but they were both over an hour each.
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Old 09-25-2011, 03:12 AM
  #25  
ChrisFlysRC
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Default Parkzone Radian CG Nose Dive after Power is shut off during climbout

I had the battery 1/2 inch out of the battery compartment. The airplane after power was shut off would drop the nose and suddently climb, then stall and drop the nose and repeat the process. It did this at high altitude but I pulled back the stick and it corrected the problem. I applied up trim and it continued to do that manuver and I almost lost the airplane. Any suggestions?

Chris
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