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Flaps any advise

Old 04-16-2013, 07:30 AM
  #1  
upuprcflyn
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Default Flaps any advise

Flaps Ouestion
Hey all I finally installed the links to the flaps and servos on my cessna 182 Skylane 747 III.

When I power on the radio then connect the battery both flaps are in line with the wings but when i power off the flaps rest in the down position. Is this normal or are the servos pre installed backwards on the flaps?
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:09 AM
  #2  
xmech2k
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Do you turn off your plane first, or your tx? If you're turning off your tx first, 1) You're not following the safe procedure of tx on first, off last. 2) Depending on your radio system, the rx sets the servos and throttle at what they were when you did the bind procedure when it loses the tx signal. Perhaps the flap servos were in the down position when you did the binding?
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:30 AM
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upuprcflyn
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2K
I'm still fairly new at this, I don't have a off/on switch on the plane itself but I have not been disconnecting the batt b4 I turn off the radio iv'e been doing the opposite. also not sure how binding works can u tell me how? thx
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:13 AM
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Fishbonez
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Originally Posted by xmech2k View Post
Do you turn off your plane first, or your tx? If you're turning off your tx first, 1) You're not following the safe procedure of tx on first, off last.
What Xm is saying do you disconect the battery before turning off the the Transmitter. Some planes have an on/off switch but most are turned off by disconecting the battery.

Curiouse is this your first plane? If so you may want to rethink flying the Cesena and try out a high wing trainer. The cesena is definitly not a starter plane though it is a high wing plane it is not usually a trainer plane especially if you are installing flaps. Flaps take a lot of practice. I have yet to master it myself. I have only been flying for 2 years and I was self taught and I would honestly say I am an innermediate begginer at best. I would not attempt to fly a Cesena yet myself. Just thought I would toss that out there. Do you have access to a club or someone who can teach you about flight and how to properly use the equipment you have?

As far as your original post is concerned I think XM is correct if you bound the plane with the flaps in the down position then when turning off plane and then the radio they tend to return to the down position.

Last edited by Fishbonez; 04-16-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:08 PM
  #5  
fhhuber
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C-172 does well as a trainer... big brother to the 152 which is now commonly used for full scale training.

The scale 172 wing can have a bad stall characteristic if the ailerons are misadjusted slightly drooped. drooping the flaps just a small amount will cure it.

for a beginner with this type (because our models tend to have 4X to 10X the power:weight of full scale) just go ahead and leave the flaps down 10 degrees. It will be more stable than any of the ".40 glow power trainers" that have been recommended for the past 30 years.

If you compare the appearance of the 172 to the common .40 glow power trainer the difference is a bit of taper in the wing.
High wing, moderate to modest control surface areas, tricycle gear, very close to 6 to 1 wing aspect ratio (6 times as much span as chord), good fuselage length getting the tailplanes back from the CG. Moderate Dihedral (for 4+ channel)
All design aspects that contribute to having a stable aircraft.

Adding flaps isn't too large of a deviation from the trainer formula... espcially if you set them and forget them.
They can act as the training aids used in some of the trainer packages. (Nextar, PTS Mustang...)

So... its a trainer.

I've seen much worse choices.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:27 PM
  #6  
CrimzonRider
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+1 on uplugging battery first, then the TX.

.... and the 182 747 is not the best trainer IME without buddybox.....

me too, flaps take lots of practice....

cr
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:33 PM
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Oh good info fhhubeer glad you were able to chime in. I am not at all familiar with this plane and am glad that you and XM can help out. I was just worried once I read the OP was unsure about binding that he may have gotten himself into a disapointment. Again glad you were able to jump in
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:01 PM
  #8  
xmech2k
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What kind of radio are you using Upuprcflyn? A 2.4ghz, 72mhz, other? If you're using a 2.4, binding (In an over-simplified explanation) is the process of linking the tx to that particular rx, so they 'know' to listen to each other. 72mhz and earlier radios don't need that process, but they suffer from the risk that the rx will be happy to accept signals from any tx on the same frequency.

Anyways, the safe and proper habit to get into with any RC vehicle, as I stated before, is to always turn the tx on first and off last. This way, your plane, boat, car, robot, etc., is never at risk of picking up a stray signal and starting off on it's own, or there are many other ways of destroying property or yourself if you don't follow that advice.

So, what your servos are doing with the tx off is somewhat irrelevant, as it should never be in that situation. But, as I stated before, if your radio system is a 2.4ghz, it is probably set up as I described before, where the rx sets the servos to a default position if it loses the signal from the tx for any reason. So in this case, unless you re-bind the tx and rx with the flaps in the up position, that's where they'll go if you lose the tx signal in flight. I'm not sure if this feature is on all radio systems right now, so you'll have to check the documentation for your particular radio system to see about that and the binding process.

As far as that 172 model being good or not to start with, I'm of the opinion that not all RC models fly alike, regardless of what full scale plane they are modelled after. It can look like a 172, but there are so many subtle things different from each manufacturers plane, you can have some that are super easy flyers, and others that are just a bear to fly. For example, my 2nd plane was Parkzone's first F4U Corsair. I found it almost as easy to fly as my Apprentice trainer. You could try to stall it, but it would just mush straight ahead with the motor off and full up elevator! Of course, if I just moved my CG aft, it might be a different story. But this isn't what you'd expect from a WWII fighter, is it?

Then there's the example of the SuperCub. Everyone knows a Cub is a trainer(I'll spare everyone the description about how the full scale Cub really flies...), so it must be a great plane to learn to fly with, right? Well the HobbyZone SuperCub is a good one, but I've read plenty, and seen personally, the Flyzone SuperCub is a flying disaster out of the box!

And as far as flying around with 10 degrees flaps, I wouldn't recommend that until you really know how that plane behaves with flaps. You need to take a plane up high and slow her down and stall her with various flap settings to get a feel for how she'll handle. If it's a bad design, you may wind up with a tip stall down low where you can't recover. If you can verify first that it will handle fine up high where you can recover from any unknowns, then it's OK.

Sorry for the novel! Just trying to help.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:21 PM
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You can change a nice trainer into a beast with improper CG and a couple of other minor mis-adjustments...

A good example is the kid that brought a Great Planes .40 glow Cessna to the club field as his first model.

Test flight (after getting CG right) it was a really annoying plane to fly. After adjusting the aileron centering and a couple of other things it was just as easy to fly... maybe easier... as the Hanger 9 Alpha.

This is where an experienced modeler can really help a beginner out... adjusting the plane so it flies the way its supposed to.

I've also fixed a couple of the FlyZone Cubs.
Nice plane when adjusted properly. Just like the HobbyZone one...
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Old 04-16-2013, 08:37 PM
  #10  
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Agreed Fh! My point was though, the guys I saw flying that Flyzone Cub I'm pretty sure set it up per instructions, and it was a miracle they got it back on the ground in one piece. I think they called for too far aft CG? There's some models that are out-of-the-box good flyers, some that need tweaking, and some that just need a complete rebuild! Not trying to pick on FlyZone, it's just one example I saw personally. Another was the 1400mm FMS Corsair which called for too far aft CG. Which is why I always read through forums to see what others experienced with a plane I purchase when I can.

My main point is to exercise caution with the flaps on any model. It may be that due to the wing design, you can slow down with the flaps more than without, but depending on wing design, will it stall straight ahead like that, or will a wingtip stall first now, and spin you into the ground? There are so many factors involved, some from the factory, some from how you set up your plane... Heck, on many of our little foamies it's hard to tell whether the flaps are out or not anyways, except the ballooning at high speed! On my FMS Mustang and Dynam Turbojet, I won't even use them when there's much wind. Floats too much for a good landing.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:55 AM
  #11  
upuprcflyn
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Thank u knowledgeable ones.

Great info and learning experience for me. I was turning off the transmitter b4 disconnecting the battery of the plane This is my 1st plane but have not flown it yet, I did purchase a second plane the hanger 9 Alfa 40 Trainer .46 two cycle glow with spectrum DX5e 5 channel 2.4 GHz, which I have flown 6 or 7 times with my trainer there to keep me out of trouble so far so good.

The cessna 182 got got it xmas 2012, the Radio is a 2.4GHz 6 channel, servos were pre installed but flap links were not connected so I connected them recently and the issue arose with the flaps. I did no binding as everything worked after charging the battery except the navigation lights which worked once and never came on again

Gonna at some point put this Fantastic looking bird up N the sky, but I wanna make every effort things are wright b4 doing so. Of course with a trainer attached for my maiden flight

Thank you all for much needed advise and any other info you can share.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:48 AM
  #12  
BBCorvette18
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The servos moving after you turn off the TX is not an issue. Unplug the battery before turning off the Transmitter and this problem (even tho it really isn't one) will not happen. I've had no issues plugging a battery in before turning on my TX but it is advisable to turn on TX first and turn it off LAST. Turning my TX before unplugging I have had the motor decide to run and that's no fun especially when I'm normally reaching over the prop to unplug my plane. After that little misshap I always stick to TX on then Plug in and unplug then turn off the TX
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:20 AM
  #13  
fhhuber
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Flaperons can cause severe issues with tip-stall and spin resulting.

Scale flaps on a C-152/172/182... nope.
They just won't cause the issues described.
They only affect the center appx 40% to 50% of the wing and having them down a few degrees will just force the center to stall first, greatly reducing the chance of dropping a wing.
This works every time it is tried.

Scale flaps slightly down on these and similar aircraft will always make the stall more predictable. That is their job at low deflection angles.
Its not a matter of scale. Its a matter of basic aerodynamics.

Having something else wrong with the aircraft is not the fault of the flaps.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:05 AM
  #14  
upuprcflyn
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Now I'm clear on proper procedure for turning on and off tx and batt disconnect boy was I doing it wrong.

Gonna do some mod work b4 flight, change flap servo to a 3 position servo because when flap channel is activated they go completely down. Also need to fix problem with rudder nose wheel compliance, when working the rudder L and R the wheel turns way more in one direction than the other causing very noticeable uneven turns during my ground test.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:29 AM
  #15  
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You generally want the nose-wheel to turn 1/3 to 1/4 as much as the rudder. Nose-wheel steering can be very sensitive.

I often put the nose-wheel on a separate channel mixed to rudder and adjust the mix % to get the correct steering response.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:42 AM
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OK I'll have to try changing ch, one way the plane will do darn near a U-Turn, the other way barely turns.
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