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Guillows Cessna 170 RC conversion

Old 11-28-2007, 06:32 PM
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constantCrash
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Default Guillows Cessna 170 RC conversion

In the next few weeks I will be starting my first build, a conversion of a Guillows Cessna 170 to RC. This is the 24" wingspan free-flight model. I picked it up for 15 bucks from HobbyLobby (the craft store) with one of their bi-weekly 40% off coupons.

Motor: 19 gram outrunner similar to the ELE outrunners at BPhobbies
Reciever: AR6100 6 gram spektrum
Battery : 2Cell 800mah E-flight lipo (I have 3 of these from my BCX2)
servos : 2 - 4 servos (3.6 gram blue arrow)
speed controller: Castle Creations 8amp brushless

The batteries are actually what made me want to build at this size. I have 3 of them and have been using them in my heli, a cox Corsair 19" wingspan and now a Cox Zero 19" wingspan. They work great for the Cox birds so i figure something with 4 more inch wingspan in balsa should also work. This size also has the benefit of easy storage in my small car for flying over lunch hour

I haven't yet decided if I'm going to do RET or ARET (1-2 servos). At this size putting 2 servos in for Ailerons might not be possible but these 3.6gram blue arrows are tiny and light. I could probably get away without ailerons at all because the wing has built in dihedral from being a freeflight bird.

I'm also debating attempting to sheet the fuse. I am going to build using most if not all the wood from the guillows kit because I don't have any experience crafting my own parts yet. (how do you transfer paper plans to wood anyway?)

If this build is partially or fully successful then I also have a Tomas More Scout (Laser cut) 24" in the box ready for conversion.
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Old 12-01-2007, 05:12 AM
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Bill G
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I just put one of those small outrunners in my Guillows Cessna150, that I've been flying for a good while now. 6.5oz AUW is no problem for the plane, and is a nice flyer. I sheeted the fuse with very light 1/32" balsa, so I'd say go for it, since they look a lot better that way.

My SE5A is around 7.5oz and flys well too. Both these planes I listed are very similar to yours, and can be good flyers.

BTW: Doesn't that tick you off that Spectrum won't offer those new tiny DX7 receivers for our DX6 raidios?
I know the DX7 is different, but that's no excuse not to make a small version for the DX6 folks who got beat buying their first radio that they dissed.
I only have a few, and ain't buying anymore. I'll stick with my GWS Pico receivers for these little planes. The SE5A actually has one of those small Corona receivers, which seemed fine.
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Old 12-01-2007, 03:29 PM
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Actually Bill, I am using the small 6gram AR6100 receiver. for a radio I'm currently using the LP5DSM Transmitter from my blade CX2. I am still waiting for the DX6i to be released to buy a radio. As long as I keep these little planes less than 100 yards away the range is fine. I wish Spektrum would release a HP5DSM radio like the LP5DSM with no programming and 5 channels this would allow them to package ALL their planes, Super cub, spitfire, mustang ect as spektrum. THAT would be AWESOME.

oh and your Cessna and S.E. 5 are what convinced me that it's possible to do (without replacing the wood.)

It's, cold, windy and snowing in MN right now so building should start later today. I have to finish putting a plywood battery box in my SuperCub and re-attach it's landing gear.
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:42 PM
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Bill,

Do you have pics on your Cessna for the battery access? I have seen those FF kits at Hobby Lobby and thought they might be good candidates for indoor flight.
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:36 PM
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Question Frustration already!

Alright, I have my first question: Is there a trick / techniqe to getting the parts out of pressed templates that come with these Guillows kits? I've already broken 2 bulkheads and i've only been working on it for 2 hours.

I've been trying to use a #11 blade but the balsa is hard and cracks before it cuts.
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Old 12-05-2007, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by constantCrash View Post
Alright, I have my first question: Is there a trick / techniqe to getting the parts out of pressed templates that come with these Guillows kits? I've already broken 2 bulkheads and i've only been working on it for 2 hours.

I've been trying to use a #11 blade but the balsa is hard and cracks before it cuts.

well.. it's nasty wood, and it the parts are die stamped into the wood, some call it "dieCrushed" Guillows is notorious for this..

the best thing to do is flip the parts sheet over to the unprinted side, and lightly sand the whole sheet down until the cut lines reveal themselves.
then you should be able to easily push them out of the sheet.


I'm going to recommend however that you build the model first as static, before you try to RC it.. get a hang of what yer doing first.

then.. for the actual model, xerox the part templetes from the plans, and use spray glue to tack the copies to good wood, and cut them out via the template in a manner you are comfortable with.
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Old 12-05-2007, 03:38 PM
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Thanks Bgnome for the tip on getting the parts out I'll try that with the rest of the build. I got all the fuse formers cut out (some glued back together) and one side of the fuse glued. I thought about just letting this one be a static/ free flight bird but If I do that then I wouldn't gain any experience converting to RC. If this flys just once It'll be worth it for the experience. I can always re-use the electronics in the next one.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:05 AM
  #8  
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Default Pictures of electronics and first half of fuse

Looks like the 800 mah battery will work perfect. Although I'm not sure how to do the battery door hatch yet. Bill, If you read this, I could use a picture of how you did it.

Both rudder and Elevator servos will be next to each other just forward of B5 bulkhead. I'll use the push rods from a Cox micro warbird to connect the servos to the surfaces.

It took a lot of patients to cut out the bulkeads but once i got the hang of it the process wasn't to bad. I did have to glue a couple of bulkeheads back together so already, this isn't going to be the lightest plane in the world, But i'm confident that with the little outrunner it will have enough power.

You can also see my build table in these pictures, it's a 36"x48" cork board from Menard's $9.95. It doesn't look level in the photos, but that's because the table underneath it is warped.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by gfdengine204 View Post
Bill,

Do you have pics on your Cessna for the battery access? I have seen those FF kits at Hobby Lobby and thought they might be good candidates for indoor flight.
I made a slide latch cover for the battery hatch. The batt installs from the bottom. I made a small plate to keep it in the lower area, for a low cg, away from the servos, and also to have a pilot .
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:12 PM
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Thanks Bill.
I got the other half of the fuse bulkheads done last night. Now it's time to mark off how the battery is going in and how to mount the servos. Will take more pictures tonight.
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Old 12-30-2007, 02:11 AM
  #11  
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Been a while since i updated this thread.
I've been working on it slowly with the attitude "as soon as it feels like work I stop." So far, I've got the tail feathers built and split for hinging, the fuse skeliton together and started stringing it. Figured out how the battery will mount and adding a battery tray.
mounted the servos.

Todo yet:
Finish stringers
build main wing*
add paneling to the fuse.
build motor mount
buy receiver.

I haven't exactly figured out how I'm going to build the wing since I would like it to be removable so that it's the battery hatch. I'm thinking of building the wing in 3 sections instead of 2. A middle section that has no dihedral and then 2 outer sections that have dihedral. I would also increase the wingspan by about an inch. That way i can put a solid spar above the cabin to support the extra weight of the RC.

The other option for the wings is to build it flat and put an aileron servo in. I could up the wingspan 2 inches to compensate for the extra weight.

I'm not going for scale here really it's just my first practice build.
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Old 01-10-2008, 06:35 PM
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I've decided to do this as full house 4 channel. I'll pick up another 3.6gram servo and use torqe rods for the ailerons. I have a question though, what would you guys suggest for how to make/cut/attach the ailerons?
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:01 PM
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constantcrash, I'm not that good with tiny parts anymore.

I would build the wing then cut out the ailerons with a razor saw.

Add a 3/32 trailing edge at the rear of the ribs I cut.
Then I'd make the ailerons out of solid balsa trimmed to tapered shape to fit.
And use torque rods for the actuation as you said.
I'd also use GWS hinges for the control surfaces or
use the covering for the hinges.

Question, How much does your battery pack weigh?
In the photo it looks pretty large.
On my small ones I use a 2 cell 350 mAh lipo.
It's pretty small and light.
Your build looks nice, keep up the good work.

Paul
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Old 01-10-2008, 07:43 PM
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The battery is an 800mah 2 cell lipo from my blade CX2 i'm kind of building the plane around the battery. I've already got a COX Zero 19" wingspan that I use this battery in so this 20+ inch wingspan should fly with it. My zero comes in at 4.5 OZ. It won't loop from level but it also only has a brushed 130 motor.

I was wondering, what if it just used flat 3/32 balsa for the ailerons such that the ailerons follow the curve of the top of the wing and the bottom would almost have a KN type airfoil by the ailerons. has anybody done this?
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Old 01-11-2008, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by constantCrash View Post
The battery is an 800mah 2 cell lipo from my blade CX2 i'm kind of building the plane around the battery. I've already got a COX Zero 19" wingspan that I use this battery in so this 20+ inch wingspan should fly with it. My zero comes in at 4.5 OZ. It won't loop from level but it also only has a brushed 130 motor.

I was wondering, what if it just used flat 3/32 balsa for the ailerons such that the ailerons follow the curve of the top of the wing and the bottom would almost have a KN type airfoil by the ailerons. has anybody done this?

I can't tell if 3/32 is enough but I suspect it would work.
Without knowing the height of the ribs at the point of being cut it's hard to say what it would look like.

Not recommending this but I have in the past just added strip ailerons onto the trailing edge of the wing.
Didn't look good, but it's easy and works.

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Old 01-11-2008, 03:29 PM
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Thanks pd1, I'm going to pick up some balsa stock today so I can decide as I go. I have a free weekend coming up so I should be able to get a bunch done on this bird. Summer's approaching fast and I still have 2 more planes to build.
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Old 01-12-2008, 04:22 AM
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yeah, if yer not worried how it looks at this point, then the 3/32 stock should be just fine.

other wise, if yer going scale-ish, then you are building a box out of the aileron plans. angling the control surface joints, and re-attaching everything to the wing itself..

this is kinda why I suggest that you build the model as static, of FF before rocking the RC conversion,
mostly.. so you can get a good look at what yer actually working with.

what I can see from your pictures, is that yer not going to be easly able to make the wing removable with out doing some heavy.. non scale looking mods, and retaining structural stability if you want to make this girl full on four on the floor.

I'm not trying to be pragmatic.. but having the proto-type in yer hot little hands tends to help in imagining the end product.
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:26 AM
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Default Work continues on the 170

Work continues on the Cessna.

Actually, making the wing removable was very easy. What I did was cut a section out of each the cabin sides that matched the form of a wing former. Then I purchased a replacement dowel that runs the length of the wing. This create a nice strong (for this size) wing with no dihedral. I made the pieces that I cut out of the cabin walls into wing formers and doubled them up against a pair of the original formers. This makes a prefect fit for attaching the wing.

I strengthened the cabin by gluing a couple of stringers to the inside wall. These will also serve to support the rear mounting plate which will have a screw going through it. (although I'm thinking about getting a micro du-bro spring latch) The front of the wing will be held on with a couple of pegs through a piece of plywood glued across the front of the cabin.

I messed up on the ailerons a little bit, the torque rod tubes aren't pefectly straight (as you can see), but I ran the tube right through the formers and I didn't want to make the holes to close to the edges which would weaken them.

I also wasn't thinking when i made the tail section, I didn't leave any room for the connecting piece between the two sides of the elevator, but I taped and pinned everything together to see what it would look like and think i can get away with trimming off the lower extension of the static rudder and mounting it slightly aft of where it's supposed to go.

It's starting to look like a plane finally.

So far it weighs 1.2 oz
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Old 01-13-2008, 01:32 AM
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I should also mention, I don't plan on indoor flying this thing. At the end i'm betting on ~5.0 oz. I fly at the local schoolyard which has a good 3 acre's to fly in. It doesn't need to float around like an indoor plane. The brushless i'm putting in it has plenty of power to force it into the air
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Old 01-14-2008, 01:31 AM
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Alright, i have a question, do you guys think that a micro du-bro latch would work to hold the back side of the wing on? It'd be two prongs into balsa on the front, and a micro latch on the back.

http://stevensaero.com/shop/product.php?productid=18433

any other suggestions for latches?
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:44 AM
  #21  
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to me... it looks like it's more suited for something...
non-load bearing.
I'd personalty hit it with somethings that more of a ply wood tab that's turned into position with a screw driver or such

sorry If I'm being the kill joy of the thread.. I just tend to over engineer stuff
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:07 PM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by constantCrash View Post
Alright, i have a question, do you guys think that a micro du-bro latch would work to hold the back side of the wing on? It'd be two prongs into balsa on the front, and a micro latch on the back.

http://stevensaero.com/shop/product.php?productid=18433

any other suggestions for latches?

No, I use these on hatches and I've had the hatch shift a little and the latch open or fail to latch correctly.
I've spotted the problem before takeoff, so I think they're good in their intended application, but not on the wing.

A piece of lite ply across the trailing edge of the wing opening, drill and thread it and use a 4-40 nylon bolt.
Use a little CA on the treads of the ply to harden them.

Here's one of my planes with a single 4-40 nylon bolt. Weight of plane is 12 ounces.
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:26 PM
  #23  
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Work is progressing at a steady rate on the cessna now. I've got the majority of the building done. The wing mounting is done ( 2 fiberglas rods in the front and a 4/40 screw at the back) all 3 servos are mounted, Alierons cut and ready for attaching. I still have to build the motor mount, and rear wheel holder. Then it's ready for sheeting or covering, which brings me here.

I put all the components minus 6 gram reciever on the scale today and it comes up at 4.9 oz / 140 grams. 1.5 oz of that is battery. I'm thinking I might skip sheeing this to save some weight?

The sheeting i have weighs 10g /.4 oz (3"x36") and i figure it'll take that much to cover the plane. So with sheeting I'd be looking at 6.5oz (allowing half an oz for covering and glue) without sheeting I'm looking at 6oz.

The wing span came to and even 24".

How do you calculate wing loading?
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:55 AM
  #24  
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Wing loading:
wing area is: length of wing, (span), multiplied by width,(chord) ,will give area in square inches.(rectangular wing).

Divide that by 144 to get square feet.

Take the total weight of the airplane in ounces and divide that by the wing area in square feet.

Answer will be wing loading in ounces per square foot.
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Old 01-25-2008, 07:14 PM
  #25  
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I framed up the same model years ago before there was light enough hardware for it to fly well. It's still not a beginner's project if the objective is really light weight with nice ROG's, slow scale like flying and landing lightly without damage. There is an interesting thread on E-Zone where the modeler is covering a large C-172 with printer paper and thinned white glue, no paint. I am flying Pat Tritle's 48" w/s C-120/140 from the short kit, weight is 19 oz with Hobby Lobby 400XT, 9x5 DD prop, 2-pico servos for ailerons and two HS-55's for rudder and elevator, 800mah 2S 20 lipo pack. On 2S power is scale like but it loves to loop, roll and will even fly inverted a little, duration is 8-10 minutes. Covering is Monkote chrome scrubbed with scotchbrite green pad, wings ar silver Microlite.
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