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R&R Snapper Quadra to electric......?

Old 01-18-2015, 02:42 PM
  #1  
mikeweber3
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Default R&R Snapper Quadra to electric......?

I have an old plane I started in 1983 and never finished. Could this large of a plane be converted to electric?

I took a picture of the specs
16 lbs
86" wingspan
1462 wing area

How do I include a picture?. From an IPad???

Thanks

Mike
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:45 PM
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fhhuber
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Just about anything can be converted... the issues are

Finding an appropriate power system (several that will match the Quadra's power)

Being able to get the CG right, since the electric motor will be so much lighter than the engine and the battery will sometimes not go fare enough forward

Access for changing batteries.
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Old 01-18-2015, 05:28 PM
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The other issue for those of us who try to keep a eye out on their money is just that . Once you go starting buying a large electric motor ,ESC and a couple large batterys to fly a large heavy plane it tends to get a little expensive . Iam not trying to bust your bubble on converting it and big planes are cool but start looking at the finished weight and just what size everything it will take and cost to make it preform as well as the same plane with a gas motor. Alot here are a little electrict crazy and i only fly electrict now but once in a while i still miss the sound of firing up some of my gas motors and watch them pull a big plane around. :-) lol joe
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:05 PM
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$300 or so for a gasoline engine... or close to the same for an electric motor + ESC + batteries...

Costs have gotten that good for e-power.
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Old 01-18-2015, 06:18 PM
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I sold all my gas and nitro planes and my only real large elecrict planes i dont fly often . When i had large gas planes for ease of getting them to the field and plenty of smaller fun planes to fly the bigger ones again i did not fly much either. Sooo if i get a pocket full of cash to buy a new plane it will more than likely be around 40 inch size one and not sticking alot of money in a large one i rarely use and will collect dust . Thats just me and others may enjoy hauling a big plane to the field or lake every weekend . joe
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:22 PM
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Yes, the smaller planes are lots more convenient. The appx "40 to .60 size" (about 1.5 to 2 meter spans and 2 to 10 lbs typical) planes are big enough to handle moderate winds and small enough to be easy to transport.
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Old 01-19-2015, 03:38 AM
  #7  
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Default Giant Electric Models

Originally Posted by mikeweber3 View Post
I have an old plane I started in 1983 and never finished. Could this large of a plane be converted to electric?

I took a picture of the specs
16 lbs
86" wingspan
1462 wing area

How do I include a picture?. From an IPad???

Thanks

Mike
We'd need more info to provide accurate information on your conversion. IMHO, any gasoline/glow powered model can be converted to electric power. Electric power has become that good now days.

Only problem is cost. And that is a very big issue. I've got two models in this size, including a Giant Big Stick model that also weighs in at 17.5 pounds. Power up front is 3000 Watts, with a Hacker A60-16M motor up front.

Going above 3000 Watts, to say 4000 or 5000 Watts quickly passes the return for the buck in the cost of the power system.

Second issue is the much lower weight of the electric motor compared to the weight of a gas engine. I had real problems with tail heavy with both of my giant scale models.

Third issue is field charging, or a whole pile of $$$$ battery packs. You are going to need 10S LiPo battery packs on the order of 5000 Mah or so.

But, with proper setup, the chances of your power plant up front quitting are greatly reduced.

Take a look at some of this stuff:

Model airplane Power Systems
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73275

Giant Scale electric motors vs Gasoline Engines
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58035

Giant Scale Big Stick Conversion
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65052

Redwing MXSR Model
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72225
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:07 AM
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http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...arehouse_.html

Appx 20CC gas replacement (more power than modern 20CC which is more power than the older Quadra appx 28cc.)

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...ESC_Ver4_.html

Good enough to get the job done up to 5000 watts. I was pulling right at 5000 watts through one of these. Motor failure (spit the bell off) blew the ESC up. (No ESC could have survived it)

http://www.nitroplanes.com/77p-sl500...-20c-3333.html
3 of these in series would give 9S (or 2 of these and one 4S pack for 10S)
My SkyLiPos die from age, not cycles.
I quit recording after I had 6 sets of them used in 12S application pulling 30C peak and 15C average (from 20C {40C burst} packs) all survive in excess of 300 cycles, then another YEAR at lower demand.

Grand total still not far from the cost of a 30cc DLE

Figure in cost of fuel and you come out cheaper going e-power...

Can't say its the ideal package for your airplane... but it points out how inexpensively it can be done.
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Old 01-19-2015, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...arehouse_.html

Appx 20CC gas replacement (more power than modern 20CC which is more power than the older Quadra appx 28cc.)

FYI, I've checked several club members 30 cc DLE gasser RPM's with appropriate propellers. They work out around 2500 Watts.

APC Propellers has their site up and running again, where they show data on all of their propellers at various RPM's. IMHO, very useful information.

http://www.apcprop.com/v/downloads/P...st10-20-14.asp

Here is info from the APC charts on a 19x8 Prop with the RPM selected at 7000. Unfortunately the APC chart doesn't display well in wattflyer. This chart shows 2.3 HP, which translates to 1715 Watts.

PROP RPM = 7000

V J Pe Ct Cp PWR Torque Thrust
(mph) (Adv Ratio) (Hp) (In-Lbf) (Lbf)
0.0 0.00 0.0000 0.0972 0.0341 2.328 20.962 19.765
2.7 0.02 0.0609 0.0956 0.0341 2.332 20.997 19.438
5.5 0.04 0.1195 0.0938 0.0341 2.332 20.992 19.076
8.2 0.07 0.1758 0.0919 0.0341 2.327 20.956 18.686
11.0 0.09 0.2300 0.0898 0.0340 2.320 20.888 18.269
13.7 0.11 0.2818 0.0876 0.0338 2.309 20.787 17.823
16.4 0.13 0.3314 0.0853 0.0336 2.293 20.645 17.345
19.2 0.15 0.3786 0.0827 0.0332 2.270 20.442 16.819
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:02 AM
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This 5330/9 260Kv 3000 Watts 160 size Motor on 10 cells will be more than enough power for your plane and at $71.99 you cant go wrong, I belive suppo and Welgard motors are one and the same, These motors are suitable for large sailplanes weighing up to 22lbs aerobatic models up to 15.5lbs. The Welgard 5330 series has been has been used in F3A competition aerobatics world wide with great success.

This motor is similar to an E-flite Power 160, AXI Gold 5330/18, or AXI Gold 5330/24.

71.99 + 32.49 Motor and ESC = $104.48

http://www.altitudehobbies.com/suppo...ower-160-equiv

And here is a Suppo 100 Amp ESC with a 5 Amp Switching SBEC For $32.49

http://www.altitudehobbies.com/brush...ss-esc-5a-sbec

get 5 cell lipos and hook them up together in Series for a 10 cell lipo pack

Last edited by CHELLIE; 01-19-2015 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:18 AM
  #11  
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5 cell 5800mah 30C Rated lipos for $69.35 Each

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._5S1P_30C.html


or 5 cell 5000mah 40C Rated for $53.30 each

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._5S1P_40C.html


This lipo charger will charge 4 lipos at the same time.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...k_Charger.html

you will need a 12v power supply. here is a 350 Watt power supply for the charger

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...00v_120v_.html
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:31 AM
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Default Anti Arc Connection

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...esc+anti+spark

http://scriptasylum.com/rc_speed/nospark.html

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=950
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:39 AM
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Default Lipo Charging Safety

Never Charge Lipos Unattended, to many horror storys of homes and building being burnt down, always charge lipos in a fire resistant container like a ceramic pot with a ceramic tile for a cover, lipo chargers and power supplys can catch on fire too, have them sitting on a ceramic floor tile, keep a fire extinguisher handy.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/pdf/EFL-...tyWarnings.pdf
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Old 01-19-2015, 08:54 AM
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Default A Wattmeter is a Must Have

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...turnigy%20watt
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Old 01-19-2015, 01:59 PM
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mikeweber3
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Do you think I'd get in trouble just moving the motor forward about 2" to get the weight forward? I still can't figure out how to get the picture uploaded from my IPad.

I think I'm going to do my maiden electric flight on my 25 year old Telemaster Senior today ��

Thanks

Mike
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Old 01-19-2015, 02:53 PM
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:22 PM
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Moving the motor forward means changing the yaw stability of the aircraft. Sometimes this is minor and sometimes it means you need a bigger rudder and fin.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:16 AM
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Default Engine and batteries

ok,

I got her Down from the rafters today. She had a Zenoah G38 2.28 CI engine. It weighs in at 4.5 lbs.
It looks like I can get the batteries and the engine under the cowling if I push it forward 1", so I don't think that will change the characteristics too much.

I would like to consider going with multiples of 5500 MaH 3 cell batteries so I can use the same batteries my Telemaster uses. It weighs 12 lbs and uses 2 5500s in series on a 1300 watt motor and performs great.

The Snapper is supposed to weigh about 16 lbs. what about using 3 3 cell batteries in series on about a 2000 watt motor? Is that practical?

Thanks

Mike

P.S. I can't figure out how to post a picture.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:48 AM
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Yes you can use any number of packs in series. I commonly do 4 X 3S 5000 mah for 12S 5000 mah at a bit over 5000 watts.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:23 PM
  #20  
mikeweber3
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Default Rudder Servo ?

I'm moving really slow on this project. I'm going to leave the batteries and motor until I have everything else done, and then see what I need for weight and CG.

My Current question is:

Originally it called for and I already own Futaba FP-S134 servos for the Ailerons and Elevator, I'm not worried about them.

I have a FP-S128 for the rudder. The FP-S128 will do 48 oz/in torque. the Rudder is 14.5" tall, 5" wide at the bottom and 3" wide at the top. That makes 58 sq. inches. Do you think I need a heavier servo on the Rudder?

Thanks

Mike
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeweber3 View Post
I'm moving really slow on this project. I'm going to leave the batteries and motor until I have everything else done, and then see what I need for weight and CG.

My Current question is:

Originally it called for and I already own Futaba FP-S134 servos for the Ailerons and Elevator, I'm not worried about them.

I have a FP-S128 for the rudder. The FP-S128 will do 48 oz/in torque. the Rudder is 14.5" tall, 5" wide at the bottom and 3" wide at the top. That makes 58 sq. inches. Do you think I need a heavier servo on the Rudder?

Thanks

Mike
We have learned a lot since the servos were originally recommended for that model...

For each control surface, use the calculator to determine what torque you actually need.
http://www.radiocontrolinfo.com/info...ne-calculator/

If you are approaching rated max for the servo, go for the next higher rated servo. A servo near max rated torque can draw 4 times the current of a stronger one at half its rated torque at the same load.
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Old 02-16-2015, 03:56 PM
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:00 PM
  #23  
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Thanks for all your help.

I flew her this week and she did great!!!! Flew for 7 minutes at 50% throttle and used 48% of battery power.

Final Statistics

Weight 20 lbs 1.5 oz
wingspan 86"
Wing area 1462
Motor Eflite Power 160 245KV
Batteries 3 5000 Mah in series
Prop 20x10
Static Wattage on the bench at full throttle 1900

I'll try to post a few pics and video

Thanks
Mike
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:01 PM
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:05 PM
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Great to hear its flying.
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