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Electric Ducted Fan Jets Discuss electric ducted fan jets here including setup tips, power systems, flying techniques, etc.

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Old 07-15-2016, 03:07 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Flite-Metal View Post
Tero:

OK, braking it all apart to isolate the canopy you get this:









You are getting each segment of the cockpit as an individual section as well as an "assembled" file. Your CAD
person should find working with these elements is easy. Though not perfect, these elements serve to appear
as a decent representation of the B-47 cockpit and individual components. I will now post photographs of all
these CAD images as they appear in the real world.

Looks terrific. I now have two persons who can machine out a plug if I plan to go this route. The recumbent bicycle canopy looks very good in profile but I will need to use the data on the frame to make it realistic and out of aluminum. I plan to have some .100 sheet rolled to the 48 inch diameter and use the top view profile data to make an aluminum edging around the perimeter and have it welded to the rolled base plate. If I go the recumbent canopy route I can set the canopy within this edging and add all the other bits of the frame. Front wind screen will be removed and a flat screen put in. I think it will look pretty good. I have had some helmet components scanned and will apply necessary webbing on the pilots to make them look realistic . I attach some earlier airplane junk re-creations I have done for RC parade floats etc. Your workmanship on this B-47 model is by far one of the most intense projects I have seen in my years in this hobby. I tip my virtual hat to you. Best Regards Tero T

But how will I learn to fly , Herr Colonel ?
The way we do everything in the German army, from the book of instructions.
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Old 07-15-2016, 03:30 AM   #227
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Here are some pics of a RC parade float I built a number of years ago from CF-104 ,T-33, F-101 , Cessna etc parts. Note the crappy canopy. The information you have supplied for the B-47 will definitely make the trailer look great. Thanks again Tero T


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ajax plane 1 001.jpg (62.3 KB, 520 views)
File Type: jpg ajax plane 3.jpg (63.6 KB, 502 views)
File Type: jpg ajax plane 2.jpg (61.0 KB, 514 views)

But how will I learn to fly , Herr Colonel ?
The way we do everything in the German army, from the book of instructions.
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Old 07-15-2016, 02:22 PM   #228
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Default Power....What Do You Suggest?

[QUOTE=dahawk;997867]I continue to follow your arduous journey. The detail,
the miniaturization of the detail. Simply remarkable. Curious: what size edf's are
you planning to use or will this be wet turbine ? Hawk[/QUOTE

dahawk:

I anticipated that question being asked at about this stage of the project.
Lets review the air frame & its 7 maneuver mission plan discussed earlier:

AUW: 42#~50# air frame.
Axial Flow: Bifurcated
Flight Time Per Round: 4 rounds @ 10 minutes each.

dhawk, what do you suggest for power method and how much of it? In case
the dims index isn't within reach, here's a copy of the final one.



Classification: Medium Bomber
Span: 116 ft. = 158.7790” @ 1/8.7669
Length: 107.1 ft. = 146.5969” @ 1/8.7669
Height: 27 ft. 11 in. = 38.2119” @ 1/8.7669
Power: Six 7,200 # thrust GEJ47GE25 turbojet =
Crew: 3 crew ( original conf. )
Armament: B-47E 1 20 mm rear cannon turret, 25,000# of bomb(s)
YB-47E = 4 Cruise Anti-Radar Missles

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Old 07-15-2016, 03:10 PM   #229
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Wow,

Now that I understand the weight and flight envelope, it's clear that it will be a wet turbine. Sorry for appearing so stupid.

She's a hoss ! Lol

Say 50#, @ 150W/# , the simple math says it will need 7,500 watts for 1:1 in the electric world. That's ~10Hp, right ?

Is edf even possible ? Even if you could generate the thrust needed, the weight penalty with the lipos needed would kill the deal.

Would you have 4 live turbines serviced by one fuel tank and 2 dummies?
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Old 07-15-2016, 03:17 PM   #230
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Default F-104

Originally Posted by 21onen View Post
Here are some pics of a RC parade float I built a number of years ago from CF-104 ,T-33, F-101
, Cessna etc parts. Note the crappy canopy. The information you have supplied for the B-47 will definitely make the trailer
look great. Thanks again Tero T
Beautiful work! The crowd had to love seeing it taxi in the parade.

One of the few privately owned flyable F-104's belongs to the heir of the Cameron Iron Works dynasty here in Houston. The
Cameron Matriarch's grandson kept it at Bush Inter-continental. On weekends he'd roll it out and take it up for a joy ride at
near supersonic...then he'd head off to the Gulf to break it where it didn't disturb anyone.

The last time I saw it Jack was flying it at the Sugar Land Airport just South of me. My house is just off center SLA's ILS, 5
or so miles North of the runway. USAF Thunderbird F-16's were doing their thing over SLA. Their severe turnaround angles of
attack caused condensation to pour down like rain in my back yard. My daughter was playing croquet between dumps.

I heard the compressor stage step-down on Jack's F-104 as it approached from the North setting up for a high speed pass
over SLA's runway and crowds of spectators watching the air show. This is a unique sound in that it identifies the mechanical
compression stages one at a time with a step by step high down to low whine. Reminds me of an Indy car winding down as it
returns to the pits. Just as the 104 was parallel to me Jack hit the throttle and it ROARED and as if were kicked in the rearend
it began a shallow climb as it moved over to pass down SLA's runway...then it went vertical out of sight... ;^) That was neat!!

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Old 07-15-2016, 03:48 PM   #231
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Default 2-Bifurcated 24# & 2-4.6# Static Thrust EDF

Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Wow,
Now that I understand the weight and flight envelope, it's clear that it will be a wet turbine.
Sorry for appearing so stupid. She's a hoss ! Lol Say 50#, @ 150W/# , the simple math says it will need 7,500 watts for 1:1 in
the electric world. That's ~10Hp, right ?

Is edf even possible ? Even if you could generate the thrust needed, the weight penalty with the lipos needed would kill the deal.
Would you have 4 live turbines serviced by one fuel tank and 2 dummies?
Interesting observation.

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Old 07-15-2016, 03:54 PM   #232
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dahawk,

You might want to read the three sections of this thread to spool up to speed on this edf
powered B-47 and its sister-ship. Our air-frame maximum weight is 32# as dictated by FAI
F4C and the batteries are not included in that total. Electric Power is 12S~14S LiPo. There
are 1049 posts comprising the three thread(s).

The formula for prototypical edf flight (air speed) with proper turn and bank angles is 1.623
pounds of air frame for each pound of static thrust generated. Pulling back to 40# Static it
will mean we can safely fly @ 64#. However, pulling back to an AUW of 38# gets us every
thing needed.

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Old 07-15-2016, 06:50 PM   #233
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Cool, I get it. What's the I.D. of the Nacelles's ? What size edf are you considering? and motor kv? Inrunner? Outrunner? High blade count? I recon you'll be pulling some amps no matter what.

Again. Just curious as this is one of the most interesting projects I've ever seen.

Keeping with the strict scale nature of this build, was just wondering how you plan on replicating the engines.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:16 PM   #234
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Wait a minute...

dhawk: You epitomize the very reason this thread was created as a scratch building process How 2. This thread illustrates entire process step by step from initial investigation using multi-media, bound, online, and microfisch in addition to hard bound resources preceding your first drop of ink to paper.

Traditional hand building tools, bench saws, drills, drill presses, high speed rotary and sanding surfaces
are joined with bound and online resources to bring the benefits of CNC CADCAM milling, printing, and hot wiring permit your imagination to create from a virtual environment what would take days and weeks in a
traditional processes work shop.

I have never refused to help anyone asking about something during the time that topic is being posted. I usually direct them to the location where resources are focused on that within the thread(s). If things are still foggy after exhausting online postings I'll jump in and search until resources answer a question.

Don't forget, there just might be the case that an answer may not exist :^) Right !

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Old 07-15-2016, 09:22 PM   #235
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Sorry,

I'm just curious. Love the thread and am learning some new things along the way.
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Old 07-15-2016, 09:39 PM   #236
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Default Replicating Engines ??? What Engines???

Originally Posted by dahawk View Post
Cool, I get it. What's the I.D. of the Nacelles's ? What size edf? 112mm~120mm. Keeping with the strict scale nature of this build, was just wondering
how you plan on replicating the engines.
dhawk,

I am afraid you have lost me. Purpose built electric motors, esc, blades, hub, & shroud
provide multiple thrust results as each component is packaged with the variables each
component group has.

The EDF has changed three times since I began the project. At this time it is the
FanJet 120 ECO. The motor is evolving with cooler and cooler running. Below are results
of tests done last month. You can imagine the expense of evaluations as nothing can be
sold as new if used in tests.



There are only a couple of baseline rules:
1). Never buy what you didn't witness or can't validate by witnesses.
2). Never buy what you can not verify performance data on.
3). In the absence of #1 always obey rule #2.
4). In the absence of #2 always obey rule #1.


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Old 07-20-2016, 04:43 PM   #237
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Default CNC Millable Cockpit & Canopy

Tero,

Did you ever calculate the length of the canopy to be in scale
with that portion of the fuel tank? I recall something around 79"
or so...

I have provided you everything to permit you to go to a CNC
gantry arm miller like a sign company to have them mill the B47
cockpit tub, windshield frame, and plug for vacuum forming the
clear canopy and windscreen.



Dick Reynolds sent me pix of the yacht builder he contracted to mill his fuselage.
Note, this is an articulated CNC mill capable of working all around foam attached
to a pole.

Dick Reynolds (right) happy to hold his dream project. Yacht builder on left.






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File Type: jpg MilledFuselagePLug.jpg (175.2 KB, 867 views)

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Old 07-23-2016, 09:29 PM   #238
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Tero,

The memory stick with STL and SKP CAD files plus other documentation
was mailed to you at 9:55 AM. There is more than enough to replicate a
B-47 canopy for your B-47 trailer.

Ed

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Old 07-30-2016, 01:48 PM   #239
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Tero:

USPS tracking report shows package delivered yesterday (29th).

July 29, 2016 , 3:40 pm Delivered CANADA
Your item was delivered in CANADA at 3:40 pm on July 29, 2016.
July 28, 2016 , 5:06 am Arrived at Facility ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS)
July 27, 2016 , 9:11 pm Processed Through Facility CANADA
July 27, 2016 , 9:11 pm Customs Clearance CANADA
July 26, 2016 , 10:38 am Processed Through Facility ISC CHICAGO IL (USPS)
July 23, 2016 , 6:20 pm Arrived at USPS Facility NORTH HOUSTON, TX 77315
July 23, 2016 , 9:42 am Acceptance HOUSTON, TX 77072

Please confirm receipt of. Occasionally a package is left in a strange patio location.

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Old 08-19-2016, 04:12 PM   #240
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Tero,

Any success in finding a CNC printing or milling service?

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Old 08-19-2016, 06:51 PM   #241
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Good Day !
Thank-you again for the stick with the canopy info. Fortunately at our club we have a Heli pilot who knows all the CNC guys since he sells and maintains CNC aftermarket add on equipment. So there are several fellows that have quite expensive equipment in their barns and are doing small projects. So Yes I am pursuing this at the moment. right now I am finishing off the interior aircraft hold holder and have a friend do some of the pilot components for me. As mentioned I had the helmets from Fox-2 which should do the job. I have a meeting with the CNC fellow in early sept when he comes back from vacation. thank-you again and will keep you updated. Send me your address and I will be sending you a little piece of aviation history in the mail from that era. Best Regards Tero T


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File Type: jpg [email protected] (9.5 KB, 383 views)

But how will I learn to fly , Herr Colonel ?
The way we do everything in the German army, from the book of instructions.
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Old 10-05-2016, 11:29 PM   #242
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Did you get any further along with your project?

Ed
[email protected]

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Old 10-07-2016, 05:35 PM   #243
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Hi Ed!
Sorry for the delay. My work on these transit projects is overwhelming me the past summer . I have received some pricing on the machining and it is a bit substantial. So what it is beginning to look like is I will get the recumbent bicycle canopy which is very close and reasonably priced in clear plexiglass. I will however use your math data for the front canopy and hope to mesh this with the rest. I am working on the interior right now and have some Lear jet NACA inlets that I hope to have mounted this fall to allow for air flow when in transport mode. I still have this item on my desk from the AVRO Arrow I need to get out to you as some form of reciprocation for your kind help. I will keep you posted as I progress. Best Regards Tero T (Go Jays Go) sorry I had to add that last cheer as I know Texas Rangers and Toronto now have this bitter rivalry. Millionaires fighting millionaires.

But how will I learn to fly , Herr Colonel ?
The way we do everything in the German army, from the book of instructions.
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:54 PM   #244
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Sam is retiring in May and moving to Kentucky. Paulette and I are going back to Coppell,
just north of DFW. I suspect we will pick things up on the B-47's where we left off. Sam's
log cabin barn/shop will be ready before their log cabin home so he'll have the time to get
caught up.

I don't plan on replacing an elaborate shop...just an 8 x 16 bench centered in two bays. I
plan to surround the perimeter with power tools and overhead lighting...that'll do it. May
consider placing my office in the shop.

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Old 02-17-2017, 09:20 PM   #245
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Ed,

When you head up this way, always feel free to stop by the 114th RC Aero squadron in Grapevine. We have a few like-minded giant scale scratch builders in our club.

http://114thrc.org/

Cheers,

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Old 02-17-2017, 09:36 PM   #246
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Hawk,

Thanks, I'm sure I'll find my way down your way before long. I won't make a mistake
of dragging out the process of getting the shop settled. Considering I prefer concrete
I'll probably contact Rev. Copeland to see if he still has extension from USN Dallas.

Years ago we held the SWDF-Fly-In at the Copeland's runway. I hope to find it is one
of the locations I can use with the B-47 rather than grass...until everything is dialed
in on asphalt. I should know soon.

I just looked where your site is... ;^) pardon this next question if it seems unreasonable
that I ask. What is it about "noise sensitive zone" (directly adjacent to your field) that
should concern me...


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Old 02-17-2017, 11:11 PM   #247
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Quiet zone ? Kinda sortof We don't run gas until after 9:00 AM in the morning and we temporarily shut down , maybe for 30 minutes when there's a wedding at Paradise Cove. We have walkie-talkies to communicate with them. Not a big deal.

The two best paved runway fields in the Metroplex are Thunderbirds near Ft. Worth and North Dallas near Aubrey ( Little Elm ). Thunderbirds is one of the top paved RC fields in the country having received a grant from the Corps. of Engrs. through a US senator connection. North Dallas is also very good. They both also have great Warbird events.

We have a special permit to fly out at Texas Motor Speedway near Ft. Worth. No facilities available such as electric power or restrooms and we have to yield right of way when Bell Helicopter has training going on our there's another event like a race. The parking lot is just "okay" Have to have enough guys to do a carrier deck walk. Some crumbled asphalt and other debris you don't want ingested. Turbine guys use to fly there but there insurance premium got pretty high. The pavement gets real hot in the summer.

I fly 70mm,80mm & 90mm edf's off our field when it's cut reasonably short. On occasion, it gets a little shaggy and it's certainly not conducive to EDF flying or anything with small wheels. We do have guys with giant scale scratch built gassers who fly there.

The prevailing wind here is South. We're more than often taking off and landing in a crosswind. Our 09/270 Runway is about 450' long with some overrun area. There's tree obstructions on both ends.

With that marvelous work of art you're building, I'd call DFW tower and see if they'll give you a departure -LOL

Cheers,

Hawk
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:49 PM   #248
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Dave,

I received a return call from the facility manager at Copeland Field who was very
helpful in redirecting me elsewhere... Very nice about it too as he is / was an
R/C modeler when younger.

He did indicate there were plenty of private paved runways between Coppell and
Denton. So, with that assurance I'll try to get a new/newer sectional. The NASCAR
parking lot would be my next most logical place. No more often than it is used we
just might get lucky.

Packing has settled into a mad hatters ball around here. Office/library starts in the
morning. More of a packing than filtering process...unlike the shop which I'm most
concerned about. Biggest U-Haul is 28' and it seems as if we're already somewhere
close to 29' worth of boxes.

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Old 03-16-2017, 10:43 PM   #249
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There's a scale Warbird event in June called 'Warbirds over Texas' at the North Dallas club in Aubrey. Great paved field with few obstructions. I believe it's 3 day event and a lot of Giant scale Warbirds go there every year. It's on the District 8 calendar.

One of our Giant Scale scratchbuilding members, an A&P for AA is now starting a F-82. I'm looking forward to see that. ~ 10' WS. A few years ago he won the scale contest for best post-war Warbird with his Douglas A-1 Skyraider.

Well, you'll be closer to the Lockheed-Martin plant in Ft. Worth who took over from General Dynamics(F-111, F-16) who took over for Convair who took over from Consolidated (B-24) when they merged with Vultee to form Convair. Might even find some retired Convair guys who worked on the Hustler when Convair built it here along with the B-36 Peacemaker. If any are still around, I'm sure they would love to see your scale replica. Heck my Dad who has passed away was a crew chief on the B-24 and did some of his tech training in the original Consolidated building.

There's a rich tradition of aviation history around here including LTV-Vought ( A7 Corsair II, F8 Crusader.

Best of luck on your move ! Take care of that CNC machinery! I spent 8 years working for Kearney and Trecker doing a lot of aircraft parts machining.

Cheers,

Hawk
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