Electric RCCA ???
#1

I saw an open RCCA combat competition yesterday. Most flew with nitro and a few had an electric set up . Is anyone familiar with the "battle axe " frame ? Most guys were using this frame . What kind of electric set up would work for the RCCA open class?
#2

Hello Shepard62,
I'm no expert on R/C Combat, but I have seen (and launched!) a few glow combat models. Is this the version of the Battle Axe you're thinking about converting?
http://www.treneffrc.com/proddetail....d=078999100049
If so, I'll make a few general suggestions.
Normally, about 100 watts per pound of RTF model weight is considered average for good performance. However, in the case of the combat classes, I'd up this to 125 w/lb for a couple of reasons. One, you're towing a streamer, which adds considerable drag. Two, you want good speed and quick turning ability, as well as vertical climbing ability.
So, a (roughly) .25 glow equilivent motor with a medium Kv of around 800 to 1000, 400 watts (or more) for a 3-1/2 lb model and enough battery power for a 4 to 5 minute match at full throttle or nearly so.
I ran a few likely motors through the free online calc and here's the results;
http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp
E-Flite 25 B/L. 4S 3200mAH LiPo, 10 x 6 prop.
394 watts out, 76 oz of thrust. Amp draw 32.694, Full Throttle duration 5:52.
Scorpion S3014-18. 4S 3200mAH LiPo, 9 x 6 prop.
415 Watts out, 76 oz thrust, Amp draw 34.868, Full throttle duration 5:31.
Himax HA3630-1000. 4S 3200 mAH LiPo, 10 x 5 prop.
413 Watts out, 74 oz thrust. Amp draw 34.853, Full throttle duration 5:31.
One problem I forsee is weight. The 4S 3200 LiPo weighs 11.6 oz and the motors are 5-7 oz each. The motor/battery weight is 17-19 oz, which is (I believe) considerably heavier than a glow .25 and a 6 oz tank.
There are other factors that may effect the weight, the glow motor weight I saw is without muffler, but most contests require one. If the matches are shorter, you might get by with a smaller (in mAH) battery, which would be lighter.
Last, here's a link to electric motor distributors;
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37969
Anyway, this should give you a start on figuring the sizes and cost.
Hope it helps!
Ron
I'm no expert on R/C Combat, but I have seen (and launched!) a few glow combat models. Is this the version of the Battle Axe you're thinking about converting?
http://www.treneffrc.com/proddetail....d=078999100049
If so, I'll make a few general suggestions.
Normally, about 100 watts per pound of RTF model weight is considered average for good performance. However, in the case of the combat classes, I'd up this to 125 w/lb for a couple of reasons. One, you're towing a streamer, which adds considerable drag. Two, you want good speed and quick turning ability, as well as vertical climbing ability.
So, a (roughly) .25 glow equilivent motor with a medium Kv of around 800 to 1000, 400 watts (or more) for a 3-1/2 lb model and enough battery power for a 4 to 5 minute match at full throttle or nearly so.
I ran a few likely motors through the free online calc and here's the results;
http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp
E-Flite 25 B/L. 4S 3200mAH LiPo, 10 x 6 prop.
394 watts out, 76 oz of thrust. Amp draw 32.694, Full Throttle duration 5:52.
Scorpion S3014-18. 4S 3200mAH LiPo, 9 x 6 prop.
415 Watts out, 76 oz thrust, Amp draw 34.868, Full throttle duration 5:31.
Himax HA3630-1000. 4S 3200 mAH LiPo, 10 x 5 prop.
413 Watts out, 74 oz thrust. Amp draw 34.853, Full throttle duration 5:31.
One problem I forsee is weight. The 4S 3200 LiPo weighs 11.6 oz and the motors are 5-7 oz each. The motor/battery weight is 17-19 oz, which is (I believe) considerably heavier than a glow .25 and a 6 oz tank.
There are other factors that may effect the weight, the glow motor weight I saw is without muffler, but most contests require one. If the matches are shorter, you might get by with a smaller (in mAH) battery, which would be lighter.
Last, here's a link to electric motor distributors;
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37969
Anyway, this should give you a start on figuring the sizes and cost.
Hope it helps!
Ron
#3

Thanks Ron,
That is great info. Cost is a huge consideration. I think I need at least 2 complete planes with many spare parts. So far :
Airframe $ 65
Motor $ 40
Battery $ 60
ESC $ 35
servos $ 45
misc $ 50
$300 per plane - UGH not sure if I am ready for that
Bill
That is great info. Cost is a huge consideration. I think I need at least 2 complete planes with many spare parts. So far :
Airframe $ 65
Motor $ 40
Battery $ 60
ESC $ 35
servos $ 45
misc $ 50
$300 per plane - UGH not sure if I am ready for that
Bill
#4

Shepard,
Ron makes some excellent points on the issues with electrics and combat but seems possible to compete on a reasonable footing.
If you were at an RCCA event in and around Baltimore, likely you were standing shoulder to shoulder with Weathervane, Wattflyer and Moderator here. He was on his way up to the event sometime Saturday midday after our flight session got blown out earlier. I called him this AM to see how the combat session went and he did say there were three electrics in the air...all new to combat.
CC
Ron makes some excellent points on the issues with electrics and combat but seems possible to compete on a reasonable footing.
If you were at an RCCA event in and around Baltimore, likely you were standing shoulder to shoulder with Weathervane, Wattflyer and Moderator here. He was on his way up to the event sometime Saturday midday after our flight session got blown out earlier. I called him this AM to see how the combat session went and he did say there were three electrics in the air...all new to combat.
CC
#5

I saw a large round man wearing a WF t-shirt with his son
maybe weathervane
I am going to email the electric guys from the combat and ask about their set-up. They were using the airframe "ssc battle axe" as were the nitro guys. I also have been going back and forth with the president of the laurel club.
Bill


I am going to email the electric guys from the combat and ask about their set-up. They were using the airframe "ssc battle axe" as were the nitro guys. I also have been going back and forth with the president of the laurel club.
Bill
#6

And you let him get out of your sight??. Thats the guy and AJ his son.
Small world. eh?? Drop him a note.
CC
I believe Weathervane is the treasurer of that Laurel club. I'm sure he'll take your money
CC
Small world. eh?? Drop him a note.
CC
I believe Weathervane is the treasurer of that Laurel club. I'm sure he'll take your money

CC
#8

Dane ,
Could you post some part numbers and some websites that sell the items you mentioned. Maybe I am shopping in the wrong place.
*****
Ron ,
Look at the .15 SSC model - Required prop is Master 8x3. Yes weight is also an issue. 2 1/2 pounds is the target. Rules say it can NOT be less than 2 1/2 lbs. I think it is possible and I am looking at keeping the $$$ down
Could you post some part numbers and some websites that sell the items you mentioned. Maybe I am shopping in the wrong place.
*****
Ron ,
Look at the .15 SSC model - Required prop is Master 8x3. Yes weight is also an issue. 2 1/2 pounds is the target. Rules say it can NOT be less than 2 1/2 lbs. I think it is possible and I am looking at keeping the $$$ down
Last edited by shepard62; 05-17-2010 at 11:38 AM.
#9

That was me. We were there from 10:30 to 3:30.
Kirk is the one who built those electric combat planes. He has always been very helpfull.
I am, and I will.

Kirk is the one who built those electric combat planes. He has always been very helpfull.
I saw a large round man wearing a WF t-shirt with his son
maybe weathervane
I am going to email the electric guys from the combat and ask about their set-up. They were using the airframe "ssc battle axe" as were the nitro guys. I also have been going back and forth with the president of the laurel club.
Bill


I am going to email the electric guys from the combat and ask about their set-up. They were using the airframe "ssc battle axe" as were the nitro guys. I also have been going back and forth with the president of the laurel club.
Bill


#10

Hi Bill,
I'd guess the .15 class could be built for less, but I think the main cost difference is the types of equipment. I listed the "name" brand motors since that's what they have on the calc. If you find similar-spec motors and ESC's at HobbyKing, ValueHobbyor HobbyPartz (RCTimer on eBay), you'll spend less, in some cases a lot less.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...3&ParentCat=59
http://www.valuehobby.com/products.php?category_id=29
http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Timer
And at the rate I saw these models eat dirt, that may be the way to go! Most pilots had 1/2 dozen exact-same models. After a couple of matches I realized that the models must be somewhat disposable. Crashes and mid-airs nearly every match, the planes are very tough but the motors took a beating. Instead of trying to clean and re-start a motor, they'd just switch planes.
If you can find out what the electric pilots are using, you'll have a better idea of the cost. At $300.00 per plane, I'd be reluctant to try it, too!
Ron
I'd guess the .15 class could be built for less, but I think the main cost difference is the types of equipment. I listed the "name" brand motors since that's what they have on the calc. If you find similar-spec motors and ESC's at HobbyKing, ValueHobbyor HobbyPartz (RCTimer on eBay), you'll spend less, in some cases a lot less.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...3&ParentCat=59
http://www.valuehobby.com/products.php?category_id=29
http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Timer
And at the rate I saw these models eat dirt, that may be the way to go! Most pilots had 1/2 dozen exact-same models. After a couple of matches I realized that the models must be somewhat disposable. Crashes and mid-airs nearly every match, the planes are very tough but the motors took a beating. Instead of trying to clean and re-start a motor, they'd just switch planes.
If you can find out what the electric pilots are using, you'll have a better idea of the cost. At $300.00 per plane, I'd be reluctant to try it, too!
Ron
#11

This is the current SSC setup that is being used in Texas.
Turnigy SK 3530 1100.......Hobby King $16.95
Turnigy Sentry 40 ESC........ " $21.95
Zippy 3S 2200 20C........... " $9.99 (2 required)
4mm Bullet connectors Hobby King
10-12 ga silicone wire "
GWS mini standard servo Servo Hut $9.50
Turnigy SK 3530 1100.......Hobby King $16.95
Turnigy Sentry 40 ESC........ " $21.95
Zippy 3S 2200 20C........... " $9.99 (2 required)
4mm Bullet connectors Hobby King
10-12 ga silicone wire "
GWS mini standard servo Servo Hut $9.50
#12

This is the current SSC setup that is being used in Texas.
Turnigy SK 3530 1100.......Hobby King $16.95
Turnigy Sentry 40 ESC........ " $21.95
Zippy 3S 2200 20C........... " $9.99 (2 required)
4mm Bullet connectors Hobby King
10-12 ga silicone wire "
GWS mini standard servo Servo Hut $9.50
Turnigy SK 3530 1100.......Hobby King $16.95
Turnigy Sentry 40 ESC........ " $21.95
Zippy 3S 2200 20C........... " $9.99 (2 required)
4mm Bullet connectors Hobby King
10-12 ga silicone wire "
GWS mini standard servo Servo Hut $9.50
Thanks Mad Max,
These prices will bring the cost down below $140 per plane. Much better than my original $300 !!!


Last edited by shepard62; 05-17-2010 at 03:54 PM.
#13

Hi Bill,
I'd guess the .15 class could be built for less, but I think the main cost difference is the types of equipment. I listed the "name" brand motors since that's what they have on the calc. If you find similar-spec motors and ESC's at HobbyKing, ValueHobbyor HobbyPartz (RCTimer on eBay), you'll spend less, in some cases a lot less.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...3&ParentCat=59
http://www.valuehobby.com/products.php?category_id=29
http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Timer
And at the rate I saw these models eat dirt, that may be the way to go! Most pilots had 1/2 dozen exact-same models. After a couple of matches I realized that the models must be somewhat disposable. Crashes and mid-airs nearly every match, the planes are very tough but the motors took a beating. Instead of trying to clean and re-start a motor, they'd just switch planes.
If you can find out what the electric pilots are using, you'll have a better idea of the cost. At $300.00 per plane, I'd be reluctant to try it, too!
Ron
I'd guess the .15 class could be built for less, but I think the main cost difference is the types of equipment. I listed the "name" brand motors since that's what they have on the calc. If you find similar-spec motors and ESC's at HobbyKing, ValueHobbyor HobbyPartz (RCTimer on eBay), you'll spend less, in some cases a lot less.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...3&ParentCat=59
http://www.valuehobby.com/products.php?category_id=29
http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Timer
And at the rate I saw these models eat dirt, that may be the way to go! Most pilots had 1/2 dozen exact-same models. After a couple of matches I realized that the models must be somewhat disposable. Crashes and mid-airs nearly every match, the planes are very tough but the motors took a beating. Instead of trying to clean and re-start a motor, they'd just switch planes.
If you can find out what the electric pilots are using, you'll have a better idea of the cost. At $300.00 per plane, I'd be reluctant to try it, too!
Ron
I even considered nitro for this combat stuff !!! Because the electric "burns up" and like you said the motors take a beating. So it seems the very least to get through 6 rounds would be two airframes another spare wing and 2 more sets of batteries and a motor , ESC & receiver
On the edge of the cliff and ready to jump.
Bill



#14
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 161

Shepard, I got your email and replied. I did not know you knew your way around electric. I googled your name and found this thread.
I was one of the 3 guys at Saturday's SSC event that flew Electric. This was my first SSC event. (BTW, Weathervane, got any video of any of my cuts?)
I learnd a TON about tactics that day and about how to "better" my planes for SSC.
Kirk's Rapier Electric design he made for me was better than the Axe but you build it from Scratch, but you can buy his wings. He protected the electonics and batteries pretty well. My only mistake was trying to keep flying with a broken Prop and that fried my ESC. My Axe mod was not really well protected and on round 5, the wood frame of the Axe cracked on the mid-air.
My cheap motor mounts did not fare well with the ground plants and I broke 2 myself and Bill broke another flying team #3's plane.
I plan to switch to the Turnigy SK 3530-1100Kv motor before I fly next.
I also plan to try some other ESCs.
I flew 6S (2x 20C or 25C 2200mAh 3S in series).
The Battle Axe basic design is easy to build. I had to dremmel a big hole in the front for the battery to stick out, then cheaply held it in place. More time and I'd do that different. Some people are putting the Batteries in the wings. I did not like that Idea myself.
I was one of the 3 guys at Saturday's SSC event that flew Electric. This was my first SSC event. (BTW, Weathervane, got any video of any of my cuts?)
I learnd a TON about tactics that day and about how to "better" my planes for SSC.
Kirk's Rapier Electric design he made for me was better than the Axe but you build it from Scratch, but you can buy his wings. He protected the electonics and batteries pretty well. My only mistake was trying to keep flying with a broken Prop and that fried my ESC. My Axe mod was not really well protected and on round 5, the wood frame of the Axe cracked on the mid-air.
My cheap motor mounts did not fare well with the ground plants and I broke 2 myself and Bill broke another flying team #3's plane.
I plan to switch to the Turnigy SK 3530-1100Kv motor before I fly next.
I also plan to try some other ESCs.
I flew 6S (2x 20C or 25C 2200mAh 3S in series).
The Battle Axe basic design is easy to build. I had to dremmel a big hole in the front for the battery to stick out, then cheaply held it in place. More time and I'd do that different. Some people are putting the Batteries in the wings. I did not like that Idea myself.
#15

David
I don't know yet. I have not looked at the video. I will look at it tonight and see if I can get something uploaded. Nice to see you are here on Wattflyer.
I don't know yet. I have not looked at the video. I will look at it tonight and see if I can get something uploaded. Nice to see you are here on Wattflyer.
Shepard, I got your email and replied. I did not know you knew your way around electric. I googled your name and found this thread.
I was one of the 3 guys at Saturday's SSC event that flew Electric. This was my first SSC event. (BTW, Weathervane, got any video of any of my cuts?)
I learnd a TON about tactics that day and about how to "better" my planes for SSC.
Kirk's Rapier Electric design he made for me was better than the Axe but you build it from Scratch, but you can buy his wings. He protected the electonics and batteries pretty well. My only mistake was trying to keep flying with a broken Prop and that fried my ESC. My Axe mod was not really well protected and on round 5, the wood frame of the Axe cracked on the mid-air.
My cheap motor mounts did not fare well with the ground plants and I broke 2 myself and Bill broke another flying team #3's plane.
I plan to switch to the Turnigy SK 3530-1100Kv motor before I fly next.
I also plan to try some other ESCs.
I flew 6S (2x 20C or 25C 2200mAh 3S in series).
The Battle Axe basic design is easy to build. I had to dremmel a big hole in the front for the battery to stick out, then cheaply held it in place. More time and I'd do that different. Some people are putting the Batteries in the wings. I did not like that Idea myself.
I was one of the 3 guys at Saturday's SSC event that flew Electric. This was my first SSC event. (BTW, Weathervane, got any video of any of my cuts?)
I learnd a TON about tactics that day and about how to "better" my planes for SSC.
Kirk's Rapier Electric design he made for me was better than the Axe but you build it from Scratch, but you can buy his wings. He protected the electonics and batteries pretty well. My only mistake was trying to keep flying with a broken Prop and that fried my ESC. My Axe mod was not really well protected and on round 5, the wood frame of the Axe cracked on the mid-air.
My cheap motor mounts did not fare well with the ground plants and I broke 2 myself and Bill broke another flying team #3's plane.
I plan to switch to the Turnigy SK 3530-1100Kv motor before I fly next.
I also plan to try some other ESCs.
I flew 6S (2x 20C or 25C 2200mAh 3S in series).
The Battle Axe basic design is easy to build. I had to dremmel a big hole in the front for the battery to stick out, then cheaply held it in place. More time and I'd do that different. Some people are putting the Batteries in the wings. I did not like that Idea myself.
#16

What motor mount do you use on the SSC? And where do you put the batteries?
I bought a motor mount and I think I can "rotate " the front half 90 degrees and use it to mount the motor on the front rails.
I bought a motor mount and I think I can "rotate " the front half 90 degrees and use it to mount the motor on the front rails.
#17

I simply use a mount made from 2" x 2" x 1/16 alum angle that is screwed to the bottom of the fuse........which in this case is a piece of 3/8" poplar. On an Axe it would be very easy
The Turnigy motors have a "X" mount that I screw to the vertical piece of the 2" angle.
Simple, light and easily bent back into shape after a dirt nap.
I'm flying Falcons and Cobras, so I place the batts in the wing as close to cg as possible. Clear tape holds each batt in during the round.
The Turnigy motors have a "X" mount that I screw to the vertical piece of the 2" angle.
Simple, light and easily bent back into shape after a dirt nap.
I'm flying Falcons and Cobras, so I place the batts in the wing as close to cg as possible. Clear tape holds each batt in during the round.
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