Combat Electric combat discussion in here.

Electric RCCA ???

Old 05-16-2010, 08:55 PM
  #1  
shepard62
Pilot in training
Thread Starter
 
shepard62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 47
Default Electric RCCA ???

I saw an open RCCA combat competition yesterday. Most flew with nitro and a few had an electric set up . Is anyone familiar with the "battle axe " frame ? Most guys were using this frame . What kind of electric set up would work for the RCCA open class?
shepard62 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 03:55 AM
  #2  
Sky Sharkster
Super Contributor
 
Sky Sharkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,455
Default RCCA Electric Combat?

Hello Shepard62,
I'm no expert on R/C Combat, but I have seen (and launched!) a few glow combat models. Is this the version of the Battle Axe you're thinking about converting?
http://www.treneffrc.com/proddetail....d=078999100049
If so, I'll make a few general suggestions.
Normally, about 100 watts per pound of RTF model weight is considered average for good performance. However, in the case of the combat classes, I'd up this to 125 w/lb for a couple of reasons. One, you're towing a streamer, which adds considerable drag. Two, you want good speed and quick turning ability, as well as vertical climbing ability.
So, a (roughly) .25 glow equilivent motor with a medium Kv of around 800 to 1000, 400 watts (or more) for a 3-1/2 lb model and enough battery power for a 4 to 5 minute match at full throttle or nearly so.
I ran a few likely motors through the free online calc and here's the results;
http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp
E-Flite 25 B/L. 4S 3200mAH LiPo, 10 x 6 prop.
394 watts out, 76 oz of thrust. Amp draw 32.694, Full Throttle duration 5:52.
Scorpion S3014-18. 4S 3200mAH LiPo, 9 x 6 prop.
415 Watts out, 76 oz thrust, Amp draw 34.868, Full throttle duration 5:31.
Himax HA3630-1000. 4S 3200 mAH LiPo, 10 x 5 prop.
413 Watts out, 74 oz thrust. Amp draw 34.853, Full throttle duration 5:31.
One problem I forsee is weight. The 4S 3200 LiPo weighs 11.6 oz and the motors are 5-7 oz each. The motor/battery weight is 17-19 oz, which is (I believe) considerably heavier than a glow .25 and a 6 oz tank.
There are other factors that may effect the weight, the glow motor weight I saw is without muffler, but most contests require one. If the matches are shorter, you might get by with a smaller (in mAH) battery, which would be lighter.
Last, here's a link to electric motor distributors;
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37969
Anyway, this should give you a start on figuring the sizes and cost.
Hope it helps!
Ron
Sky Sharkster is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:05 AM
  #3  
shepard62
Pilot in training
Thread Starter
 
shepard62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 47
Default

Thanks Ron,
That is great info. Cost is a huge consideration. I think I need at least 2 complete planes with many spare parts. So far :
Airframe $ 65
Motor $ 40
Battery $ 60
ESC $ 35
servos $ 45
misc $ 50


$300 per plane - UGH not sure if I am ready for that

Bill
shepard62 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:07 AM
  #4  
capn chaos
Super Contributor
 
capn chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: annapolis, md
Posts: 1,166
Default

Shepard,
Ron makes some excellent points on the issues with electrics and combat but seems possible to compete on a reasonable footing.
If you were at an RCCA event in and around Baltimore, likely you were standing shoulder to shoulder with Weathervane, Wattflyer and Moderator here. He was on his way up to the event sometime Saturday midday after our flight session got blown out earlier. I called him this AM to see how the combat session went and he did say there were three electrics in the air...all new to combat.
CC
capn chaos is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:13 AM
  #5  
shepard62
Pilot in training
Thread Starter
 
shepard62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 47
Default

I saw a large round man wearing a WF t-shirt with his son maybe weathervane

I am going to email the electric guys from the combat and ask about their set-up. They were using the airframe "ssc battle axe" as were the nitro guys. I also have been going back and forth with the president of the laurel club.

Bill
shepard62 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:22 AM
  #6  
capn chaos
Super Contributor
 
capn chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: annapolis, md
Posts: 1,166
Default

And you let him get out of your sight??. Thats the guy and AJ his son.
Small world. eh?? Drop him a note.
CC

I believe Weathervane is the treasurer of that Laurel club. I'm sure he'll take your money
CC
capn chaos is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 04:45 AM
  #7  
Dane McGee
Sho-Nuff Combat Pilot
 
Dane McGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Greenville, Texas
Posts: 33
Default

The Setup we are using is alot cheaper.

Ill post numbers.

Last edited by Dane McGee; 05-17-2010 at 01:47 PM.
Dane McGee is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:54 AM
  #8  
shepard62
Pilot in training
Thread Starter
 
shepard62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 47
Default

Dane ,
Could you post some part numbers and some websites that sell the items you mentioned. Maybe I am shopping in the wrong place.

*****

Ron ,
Look at the .15 SSC model - Required prop is Master 8x3. Yes weight is also an issue. 2 1/2 pounds is the target. Rules say it can NOT be less than 2 1/2 lbs. I think it is possible and I am looking at keeping the $$$ down

Last edited by shepard62; 05-17-2010 at 11:38 AM.
shepard62 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:50 AM
  #9  
weathervane
Needs more LED's
 
weathervane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 1,304
Default

That was me. We were there from 10:30 to 3:30.
Kirk is the one who built those electric combat planes. He has always been very helpfull.

Originally Posted by shepard62 View Post
I saw a large round man wearing a WF t-shirt with his son maybe weathervane

I am going to email the electric guys from the combat and ask about their set-up. They were using the airframe "ssc battle axe" as were the nitro guys. I also have been going back and forth with the president of the laurel club.

Bill
I am, and I will.


Originally Posted by capn chaos View Post
And you let him get out of your sight??. Thats the guy and AJ his son.
Small world. eh?? Drop him a note.
CC

I believe Weathervane is the treasurer of that Laurel club. I'm sure he'll take your money
CC
weathervane is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 12:03 PM
  #10  
Sky Sharkster
Super Contributor
 
Sky Sharkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 5,455
Default Equipment Cost?

Hi Bill,
I'd guess the .15 class could be built for less, but I think the main cost difference is the types of equipment. I listed the "name" brand motors since that's what they have on the calc. If you find similar-spec motors and ESC's at HobbyKing, ValueHobbyor HobbyPartz (RCTimer on eBay), you'll spend less, in some cases a lot less.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...3&ParentCat=59
http://www.valuehobby.com/products.php?category_id=29
http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Timer
And at the rate I saw these models eat dirt, that may be the way to go! Most pilots had 1/2 dozen exact-same models. After a couple of matches I realized that the models must be somewhat disposable. Crashes and mid-airs nearly every match, the planes are very tough but the motors took a beating. Instead of trying to clean and re-start a motor, they'd just switch planes.
If you can find out what the electric pilots are using, you'll have a better idea of the cost. At $300.00 per plane, I'd be reluctant to try it, too!
Ron
Sky Sharkster is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 01:47 PM
  #11  
Dane McGee
Sho-Nuff Combat Pilot
 
Dane McGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Greenville, Texas
Posts: 33
Default

This is the current SSC setup that is being used in Texas.

Turnigy SK 3530 1100.......Hobby King $16.95
Turnigy Sentry 40 ESC........ " $21.95
Zippy 3S 2200 20C........... " $9.99 (2 required)
4mm Bullet connectors Hobby King
10-12 ga silicone wire "

GWS mini standard servo Servo Hut $9.50
Dane McGee is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 02:31 PM
  #12  
shepard62
Pilot in training
Thread Starter
 
shepard62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 47
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Dane McGee View Post
This is the current SSC setup that is being used in Texas.

Turnigy SK 3530 1100.......Hobby King $16.95
Turnigy Sentry 40 ESC........ " $21.95
Zippy 3S 2200 20C........... " $9.99 (2 required)
4mm Bullet connectors Hobby King
10-12 ga silicone wire "

GWS mini standard servo Servo Hut $9.50


Thanks Mad Max,
These prices will bring the cost down below $140 per plane. Much better than my original $300 !!!


Last edited by shepard62; 05-17-2010 at 03:54 PM.
shepard62 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 03:59 PM
  #13  
shepard62
Pilot in training
Thread Starter
 
shepard62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 47
Default

Originally Posted by Sky Sharkster View Post
Hi Bill,
I'd guess the .15 class could be built for less, but I think the main cost difference is the types of equipment. I listed the "name" brand motors since that's what they have on the calc. If you find similar-spec motors and ESC's at HobbyKing, ValueHobbyor HobbyPartz (RCTimer on eBay), you'll spend less, in some cases a lot less.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...3&ParentCat=59
http://www.valuehobby.com/products.php?category_id=29
http://stores.ebay.com/RC-Timer
And at the rate I saw these models eat dirt, that may be the way to go! Most pilots had 1/2 dozen exact-same models. After a couple of matches I realized that the models must be somewhat disposable. Crashes and mid-airs nearly every match, the planes are very tough but the motors took a beating. Instead of trying to clean and re-start a motor, they'd just switch planes.
If you can find out what the electric pilots are using, you'll have a better idea of the cost. At $300.00 per plane, I'd be reluctant to try it, too!
Ron

I even considered nitro for this combat stuff !!! Because the electric "burns up" and like you said the motors take a beating. So it seems the very least to get through 6 rounds would be two airframes another spare wing and 2 more sets of batteries and a motor , ESC & receiver

On the edge of the cliff and ready to jump.
Bill


shepard62 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 05:24 PM
  #14  
dditch66
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 161
Default

Shepard, I got your email and replied. I did not know you knew your way around electric. I googled your name and found this thread.

I was one of the 3 guys at Saturday's SSC event that flew Electric. This was my first SSC event. (BTW, Weathervane, got any video of any of my cuts?)

I learnd a TON about tactics that day and about how to "better" my planes for SSC.
Kirk's Rapier Electric design he made for me was better than the Axe but you build it from Scratch, but you can buy his wings. He protected the electonics and batteries pretty well. My only mistake was trying to keep flying with a broken Prop and that fried my ESC. My Axe mod was not really well protected and on round 5, the wood frame of the Axe cracked on the mid-air.
My cheap motor mounts did not fare well with the ground plants and I broke 2 myself and Bill broke another flying team #3's plane.
I plan to switch to the Turnigy SK 3530-1100Kv motor before I fly next.
I also plan to try some other ESCs.
I flew 6S (2x 20C or 25C 2200mAh 3S in series).

The Battle Axe basic design is easy to build. I had to dremmel a big hole in the front for the battery to stick out, then cheaply held it in place. More time and I'd do that different. Some people are putting the Batteries in the wings. I did not like that Idea myself.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ay75726.jpg
Views:	207
Size:	102.0 KB
ID:	127833   Click image for larger version

Name:	Ja41983.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	41.7 KB
ID:	127834   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kq35712.jpg
Views:	238
Size:	137.9 KB
ID:	127835   Click image for larger version

Name:	Oz29043.jpg
Views:	238
Size:	115.8 KB
ID:	127836   Click image for larger version

Name:	To44695.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	137.9 KB
ID:	127837  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Un33677.jpg
Views:	235
Size:	103.1 KB
ID:	127838  
dditch66 is offline  
Old 05-17-2010, 07:21 PM
  #15  
weathervane
Needs more LED's
 
weathervane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 1,304
Default

David
I don't know yet. I have not looked at the video. I will look at it tonight and see if I can get something uploaded. Nice to see you are here on Wattflyer.


Originally Posted by dditch66 View Post
Shepard, I got your email and replied. I did not know you knew your way around electric. I googled your name and found this thread.

I was one of the 3 guys at Saturday's SSC event that flew Electric. This was my first SSC event. (BTW, Weathervane, got any video of any of my cuts?)

I learnd a TON about tactics that day and about how to "better" my planes for SSC.
Kirk's Rapier Electric design he made for me was better than the Axe but you build it from Scratch, but you can buy his wings. He protected the electonics and batteries pretty well. My only mistake was trying to keep flying with a broken Prop and that fried my ESC. My Axe mod was not really well protected and on round 5, the wood frame of the Axe cracked on the mid-air.
My cheap motor mounts did not fare well with the ground plants and I broke 2 myself and Bill broke another flying team #3's plane.
I plan to switch to the Turnigy SK 3530-1100Kv motor before I fly next.
I also plan to try some other ESCs.
I flew 6S (2x 20C or 25C 2200mAh 3S in series).

The Battle Axe basic design is easy to build. I had to dremmel a big hole in the front for the battery to stick out, then cheaply held it in place. More time and I'd do that different. Some people are putting the Batteries in the wings. I did not like that Idea myself.
weathervane is offline  
Old 05-19-2010, 02:21 AM
  #16  
shepard62
Pilot in training
Thread Starter
 
shepard62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 47
Default Hey Mad Max

What motor mount do you use on the SSC? And where do you put the batteries?

I bought a motor mount and I think I can "rotate " the front half 90 degrees and use it to mount the motor on the front rails.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	gpmg1255.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	9.8 KB
ID:	127951  
shepard62 is offline  
Old 05-19-2010, 02:39 AM
  #17  
Dane McGee
Sho-Nuff Combat Pilot
 
Dane McGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Greenville, Texas
Posts: 33
Default

I simply use a mount made from 2" x 2" x 1/16 alum angle that is screwed to the bottom of the fuse........which in this case is a piece of 3/8" poplar. On an Axe it would be very easy

The Turnigy motors have a "X" mount that I screw to the vertical piece of the 2" angle.

Simple, light and easily bent back into shape after a dirt nap.

I'm flying Falcons and Cobras, so I place the batts in the wing as close to cg as possible. Clear tape holds each batt in during the round.
Dane McGee is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Greg Khiara
General Electric Discussions
19
06-24-2010 10:07 AM
Dane McGee
Combat
2
01-24-2010 04:11 PM
helibeg
3D Flying
18
10-28-2009 04:01 PM
uavibero
General Electric Discussions
1
05-15-2009 09:03 PM
crash_out
Combat
4
04-11-2008 12:06 AM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Quick Reply: Electric RCCA ???


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.

Page generated in 0.14694 seconds with 20 queries