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Old 10-12-2015, 09:30 PM   #1
Tominoo
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Angry PL8 safety code: 15 System Softstart

Dear all,

I bought new Cellpro Powerlab 8 and I canīt solve problem with charging from battery at flyingfield (I have 6s Li-ion 50Ah battery 21V-24,6V). Everytime when the supply battery has about 22V or less I canīt charge paralel 6s lipo 5000mAh (current 20A). The charging is started and after approx. from 1 to 5 minutes is interrupted with safety code: 15 System Softstart. E.g. it flows 5minutes current 20A (battery supply hold on 21,85V, with multimeter measured) after that it is intterupted with safety code: System Softstart. I have replaced EC5 connector with high-end 300A connector and it is the same issue. I have tested many settings of Battery Power source settings (Battery Low Voltage, Battery Max Amps..) still not solved. Please, any advice? I think that the charger is defective
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Old 10-12-2015, 11:36 PM   #2
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Demanding more current than the supply can deliver without dropping voltage below the safety trigger.

As the source battery depletes its voltage drops.

Lower charge rate may let you do a more complete charge, but you are demanding more than what the source can supply.

I have a solar system on my model aircraft trailer... 4 X 120 ah (12.8v nominal) LiFeMgPO4 based batteries and it takes a lot of charging to pull that down to trigger my charger's low input voltage... but I can do it.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:54 AM   #3
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That would be about 0.5C discharge rate out of the big Li-ion battery... It 'should' cope with that easily. If the Li-ion battery voltage is holding around 22V then that also says to me it's coping with the demand ok.

Could this be a 'Buck / boost' transition issue.. i.e. the charger gets unstable as it transitions past the point where supply and load battery voltages match? I've seen this cause issues with chargers before when charging at higher rates.

How does the charger behave when running from a PSU?
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Old 10-13-2015, 12:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
Demanding more current than the supply can deliver without dropping voltage below the safety trigger.

As the source battery depletes its voltage drops.

Lower charge rate may let you do a more complete charge, but you are demanding more than what the source can supply.

I have a solar system on my model aircraft trailer... 4 X 120 ah (12.8v nominal) LiFeMgPO4 based batteries and it takes a lot of charging to pull that down to trigger my charger's low input voltage... but I can do it.

Thanks for your answer. I know what this warning means, but I don't understand why is it happen in my case. Battery is very powerful (it has 50Ah with discharging current over 600A).
As I wrote battery voltage is decreasing also with current 20A (charging rate) only about 70mV
(with multimeter measured included min/max memory).
So why the charger should declare error if it is set up - power source battery low voltige = 20,8V
and battery voltage is 21,8V?
My friend has the same configuration, Powerful source battery, PL8 and GensAce battery 5000mAh.
He has no problem, charger begins to keep under charging current till the configured value Power battery
low voltige. I have measured the continuance of voltage on connectors during the charging paralel
2x6s and there was 21,6V on battery during this error.
I will try his charger with my battery, cabling and let you know.

Thank you.
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:22 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
That would be about 0.5C discharge rate out of the big Li-ion battery... It 'should' cope with that easily. If the Li-ion battery voltage is holding around 22V then that also says to me it's coping with the demand ok.

Could this be a 'Buck / boost' transition issue.. i.e. the charger gets unstable as it transitions past the point where supply and load battery voltages match? I've seen this cause issues with chargers before when charging at higher rates.

How does the charger behave when running from a PSU?

I have same meaning that the supply Li-ion Battery is O.K for this case. And I agree with your opinion but I have to check it. From PSU I never have a problem !! I have two HP 600PB PSU over 24V.

Thank you
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Old 10-13-2015, 01:47 PM   #6
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Somewhere in the supply circuit there is sufficient resistance that as current demand increases, voltage drop exceeds what the charger will tolerate. USUALLY the issue is internal resistance of the supply battery.

A poor solder joint on a bullet (or whatever you use) connector can be high resistance and a major voltage drop.
Similarly whatever connector is on your source battery has to be REALLY GOOD....

Common auto crimp + ring connectors to bolt onto battery terminals won't work. I made my own from heavy brass and soldered the wires on with silver solder. (all of my high amp solder joints are silver soldered because its stronger and lower resistance)

Long wire of inadequate gauge will drop voltage.

I have 12 ft of wire between batteries and the charger station on my trailer... but its 8 gauge fine stranded copper and I can pull 100 amps with minimal voltage drop. (And I have pulled 100 amps at the charge station) Aluminum wire you need the next larger gauge wire vs copper.

The fact of your charger working fine from a power supply, but not the battery says its the battery or the wires between charger and battery. (or both)
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Old 10-13-2015, 02:03 PM   #7
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Another though, just shooting from the hip.... It could be a problem of inductance in the wires from the battery to the ESC which could lead to voltage spikes at the charger (spikes too transient to measure with a multimeter).

So make the wires as short as possible and/or add a large 50V capacitor(s) across the wires near the connection to the charger. The capacitor would work in the same way and for the same reason as the capacitors you always see fitted on ESC's where the battery wires connect.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:10 PM   #8
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Try programming your PL8 for "Power Supply" rather than "Battery". That's what I've done on my Harbor Freight/alternator setup posted elsewhere in RCGroups.

It worked for me. Note that doing so could run your supply battery flat though.

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Old 10-13-2015, 07:03 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tominoo View Post
source battery low voltige = 20,8V
and battery voltage is 21,8V?
20.8v for a 6s pack is 3.47 volts per cell. In general, that is a tad on the low side for that chemistry. Some of those cells can go lower. But since discharge curves across cells in the same pack are often very different near the end of the discharge, you could have some cells far below 3.47v per and some above.

One thing to check is if the cells have any type of built-in battery management systems. Some of those cells have a low voltage cut-off that disconnects the cell when the voltage drops below a preset threshold. You may want to check the individual cell voltages on the source pack when its in this low state, see if have one cell far below the others.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:43 PM   #10
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Dear all,

thank you for your advices. I have already tested the second charger PL8 from my friend with the same battery and wires. The second charger has no problem!! The charging was complieted. I have changed my charger back and after 40 seconds I have a safety code: 15 System Softstart. My charger is defective and I will claim it.

Thank You
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:14 PM   #11
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It sounds like your charger has an issue, but as a final check it might be worth making sure that the software version and the 'under the hood' settings one both chargers are the same? it would be a waste to go through the RMA process just to find it only needed some setting changed.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:05 PM   #12
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Hi,

so I reclaimed my charger. After one month I had received a new one. Seller informed me that I canīt use Li-ion battery as a power supply because it is not engineered for this type of power supply. The new charger have a same issue. I donīt understand this: Why I can set battery low voltage less e.g. 18,5V and charger though ignore it and resetting yourselves. I tested all settings, with same result. My friend have a older charger with no issue (longer charger cables, first of V8). How I can contact direct FMA? Any advice?
Thank you
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:41 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Tominoo View Post
Hi,

so I reclaimed my charger. After one month I had received a new one. Seller informed me that I canīt use Li-ion battery as a power supply because it is not engineered for this type of power supply. The new charger have a same issue. I donīt understand this: Why I can set battery low voltage less e.g. 18,5V and charger though ignore it and resetting yourselves. I tested all settings, with same result. My friend have a older charger with no issue (longer charger cables, first of V8). How I can contact direct FMA? Any advice?
Thank you
Have you tried changing your charger from "battery" to "Power supply"?

That's what I've got both of my Cellpro PL8's set to, even though the charger supply is a 12 Volt lead acid battery.

Do note though that this could run your Li-ion battery flat if it runs out of juice.

DennyV
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Old 12-06-2015, 03:35 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
Have you tried changing your charger from "battery" to "Power supply"?

That's what I've got both of my Cellpro PL8's set to, even though the charger supply is a 12 Volt lead acid battery.

Do note though that this could run your Li-ion battery flat if it runs out of juice.

That was a first thing that I was tested. Same issue with "battery" and "Power supply" setting. It seems to be that I have to buy generator
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Old 12-06-2015, 07:14 PM   #15
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You need a good 24 volt, 60 amp Power Supply. If you are going to use a battery as your source it is going to have to be at least a 24 volt 400 AH 400 pound monster of a Pb battery.

Cough up $220 for a decent 24 volt 55 AMP PSU made for the PL8. Heck of a lot less expensive than using a battery, and way more reliable without limitations.
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Old 12-10-2015, 06:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
You need a good 24 volt, 60 amp Power Supply. If you are going to use a battery as your source it is going to have to be at least a 24 volt 400 AH 400 pound monster of a Pb battery.

Cough up $220 for a decent 24 volt 55 AMP PSU made for the PL8. Heck of a lot less expensive than using a battery, and way more reliable without limitations.

I havenīt problem with Power Supply, thats work perfect (Power supply 24V/60A). I have problems on field there is no voltage distribution, therefore i bought battery 50Ah with burst 400A and hoped that I have perfect solution for field charging. Unfortunately this charger is not so perfect as I thought...
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Old 12-10-2015, 07:24 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Tominoo View Post
I havenīt problem with Power Supply, thats work perfect (Power supply 24V/60A). I have problems on field there is no voltage distribution, therefore i bought battery 50Ah with burst 400A and hoped that I have perfect solution for field charging. Unfortunately this charger is not so perfect as I thought...
I've got two PL8's. Field power ranges to a cheap 12 Volt lawn tractor battery for 3 cell 1000 Mah LiPos, to a 12 Volt 120 Amp Hour deep cycle for 6S2P A123's to a Harbor Freight 79 cc engine with an automotive generator for my 12S2P A123's.

Max current out of the alternator setup is 45 Amps, limited by the engine stalling out.

Max charge rate I use with that deep cycle battery is 15 - 20 Amps out of the deep cycle. Any more than that is really hard on deep cycle batteries

Also have used those chargers with an 18 Volt, 3 Amp supply.

Never had a problem with any of them.

Your issue is strange. Have you tried reducing the charge rate to your LiPos?

DennyV
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