Combat Electric combat discussion in here.

E-Combat in Tulsa

Old 01-28-2009, 02:38 PM
  #226  
gfdengine204
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James,

I could see a box, but I would make it larger than those rules call for. I also would limit it ACROSS the field only, and not worry about depth, or how far away from the road a flier gets. (By away from the road, I am meaning at the Unclub sight. I think you will understand what I mean.)

I noticed when I was flying with you guys, I had to disengage and get my bearings a couple times. Having some airspace to be able to do so would be a good safety issue, IMHO.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:15 PM
  #227  
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I agree plus I don't want to volunteer to judge...I want to compete . I will modify the rules. I am going to leave the 100 point deduction and must land for flying behind the flight line.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:19 PM
  #228  
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
I agree plus I don't want to volunteer to judge...I want to compete . I will modify the rules. I am going to leave the 100 point deduction and must land for flying behind the flight line.
That's a good idea. Safety first.
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Old 01-28-2009, 03:48 PM
  #229  
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I agree with the larger area of forgiveness because for guys like me this space will be needed lol. I'm still learning to stay in a pattern or in combat...in a small area.
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:01 PM
  #230  
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Default Updated rules of engagement

ENGAGEMENT RULES:
The aircraft shall tow a 3/8" by 18' foot long ribbon, There shall be no leader string used at any time.
Each plane receives 100 points for being in the air when “START COMBAT” is called. 100 points shall be deducted and aircraft must land if it over-flies the flight line. 100 points are gained by cutting off a portion of another aircraft’s streamer. The killed plane or aircraft with the cut streamer must land, even if it has most of its streamer left. 100 points are awarded when “TIME” is called and aircraft lands with an intact streamer.
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Old 01-28-2009, 04:05 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
ENGAGEMENT RULES:
The aircraft shall tow a 3/8" by 18' foot long ribbon, There shall be no leader string used at any time.
Each plane receives 100 points for being in the air when “START COMBAT” is called. 100 points shall be deducted and aircraft must land if it over-flies the flight line. 100 points are gained by cutting off a portion of another aircraft’s streamer. The killed plane or aircraft with the cut streamer must land, even if it has most of its streamer left. 100 points are awarded when “TIME” is called and aircraft lands with an intact streamer.
Take this for what it is worth:

Must the aircraft be considered killed when it still has streamer left? I can see awarding points for getting a streamer (or part of a streamer), but I could also see the case for letting a pilot remain in the air with a partial streamer (thinking he has been hit, but not mortally wounded, as happened often in Wartime dogfighting). Perhaps a bonus point system for the aircraft landing with the LONGEST REMAINING streamer? This awards the pilot who has remained skillful enough to not be hit (or perhaps luckiest, not skillful? lol)

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:03 PM
  #232  
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Hmmm I don't know. You do notice a difference when your streamer gets cut, you lose all that added drag. The guy who loses his streamer early would have the advantage.

In other words who ever I am flying against would have an advantage over me . J/K
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:12 PM
  #233  
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
Hmmm I don't know. You do notice a difference when your streamer gets cut, you lose all that added drag. The guy who loses his streamer early would have the advantage.

In other words who ever I am flying against would have an advantage over me . J/K
Funny you should say that. You never gave me that advantage....
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:21 PM
  #234  
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Old 01-29-2009, 03:19 AM
  #235  
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I always thought an airplane with a cut/lost streamer (for any reason), is considered "shot down", and must land immediately.

Forced landings (with 100% intact ribbons) count as "kills".
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:14 AM
  #236  
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I went to an actual combat meet in Paris, Texas. It was probably the largest and most well attended meet in national tour. It was put on by the RCCA (Radio Control Combat Association) which is a Special Interest Group (SIG) of the AMA.

These are the rules regarding scoring:

6.4 Streamer Cut Scoring

6.4.1 A streamer cut is defined as any time one contestant's aircraft removes any part of a streamer attached to or being
towed by another contestants aircraft between the announcement of “Start Combat” and “End Combat”.

6.4.2 Cutting or removing any streamer being towed by another contestant's aircraft will be scored as a cut.

6.4.3 A cut must be observed and confirmed by a judge to be eligible for scoring. The decision of the judge(s) regarding
scoring of cuts is final.

6.4.4 If two streamers intertwine during combat and any part of one becomes removed, the pilot who's streamer remains
intact will be awarded the cut.

6.4.5 If more than two streamers are intertwined, the pilot(s) whose aircraft retain the original portions of their streamer will
score the cut(s).

6.4.6 If two streamers become intertwined and any portion of both are removed, both pilots will score a cut.

6.4.7 Multiple cuts on multiple streamers towed by a single aircraft in a single pass count as one cut.
RCCA Rules for Scale Combat (All Classes) Revised 14 January 2008

Page 8 of 8

6.4.8 Multiple cuts on a single streamer in a single pass count as one cut.

6.4.9 Streamers not being towed by a contestant's aircraft (i.e. floating unattached) are not eligible for scoring.

6.5 Scoring of Remaining Streamer

6.5.1 To be eligible for remaining streamer points, the aircraft must start the heat by completely crossing the Combat
Engagement Line into the combat arena in controlled powered flight with an attached, fully extended streamer.

6.5.2 To be eligible for remaining streamer points, the streamer must still be attached to string attached to the model (except
as covered in 6.5.3), and may not be a streamer cut from an opponent.

6.5.3 Should a streamer, string or attachment break on landing or in recovering the model from a crash site it may be taped
together for scoring in a manner that does not increase the length of the streamer, provided that such action is observed and
approved by a judge.

6.5.4 Streamer length will be rounded down to the nearest foot when measuring remaining streamer.

6.6 Reinstatement of points lost. No incident may occur that would reinstate continuous flight points once lost. For example, a
pilot does not launch on time (losing continuous flight points), and midairs later in the heat. While pilots do not lose continuous
flight points because of a midair, the pilot had already lost them prior to the midair for not launching on time. Once continuous
flight points are lost, they are lost for the entire round. Likewise, no incident may occur that would reinstate points lost for
failure to launch on time.

6.7 Combat Engagement Line, Safety and Pilot line violations. Combat Engagement Line, Safety Line and Pilot Line violations
will be scored independently. That is, if a pilot violates more than one line rule, multiple penalties will be assessed.

Of course, there are glow fueled airplanes, not electric, but similar rules could apply to electric.

There are rules about the combat box and other elements on their website that might be helpful.

According to their rules, any plane with a cut streamer does not have to land and still compete for the full combat period. In fact you can get credit for cutting the already cut streamer on someones wing.
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:23 PM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
I always thought an airplane with a cut/lost streamer (for any reason), is considered "shot down", and must land immediately.

Forced landings (with 100% intact ribbons) count as "kills".
For now I think we will go with a cut streamer means your dead and you need to land. As with any of the rules if enough guys want to change something, we can.

I don't think anybody should get any points for a forced landing. Usually when I hit the ground it's because I lost orientation and I don't have enough altitude to get my bearings, not because I'm "forced" down. How about something like this.

FORCED LANDINGS:
If for any reason your plane lands early your round is over. You get to keep the 100 points for being in the air for "Start Time" and any "Kill" points you may have earned before landing. You will not receive any points for completing the round even if your streamer is still intact.

Originally Posted by Rabbitcreekok View Post
I went to an actual combat meet in Paris, Texas. It was probably the largest and most well attended meet in national tour. It was put on by the RCCA (Radio Control Combat Association) which is a Special Interest Group (SIG) of the AMA.

These are the rules regarding scoring:


6.4.9 Streamers not being towed by a contestant's aircraft (i.e. floating unattached) are not eligible for scoring.


I thought it was bonus points for hitting a floating streamer ? If it's not it should be, those things are hard to hit .

Those guys are serious about their combat. I've been reading a lot about what the guys are doing in Indiana and Dallas that fly E-Combat but I have never really checked out what the slimers are doing. Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-30-2009, 01:00 AM
  #238  
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
FORCED LANDINGS:
If for any reason your plane lands early your round is over. You get to keep the 100 points for being in the air for "Start Time" and any "Kill" points you may have earned before landing. You will not receive any points for completing the round even if your streamer is still intact.
Somewhere, I saw that the pilot of the "forced landing" aircraft lost something like 100 points, and the airplane could not be launched again in that round.

Perhaps "kill" was the wrong term. :o

...and I agree -- the local Tulsa guys should change the rules to meet their own needs and wants.
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Old 01-30-2009, 02:24 AM
  #239  
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The main reason I can think of to not allow a re-launch is the pilot has to walk out on the field under the combat to retrieve the plane. I don't want somebody to chance walking out there because they want to try and get more points...just not worth it.

That being said I also don't want to lose points for going all out. The pilot is already missing out on a chance for the 100 points for completing the round. I'm afraid if the penalty for crashing is too severe guys will be playing it safe and what's the fun in that .

I really appreciate the feed back guyz. I wish their were a way to get everybody that is interested to post but I understand that some are just not interested in the forums.

Does this look better.


FORCED LANDINGS:

If for any reason your plane lands early your round is over. You get to keep any points earned prior to the forced landing. You will not receive any points for completing the round even if your streamer is still intact.
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Old 01-30-2009, 03:04 AM
  #240  
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Sounds fine to me -- but I'm not a participant! I've always limited myself to "observer", though I may be willing to update my status to "judge", if elected by a jury of my peers.
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Old 01-30-2009, 04:28 AM
  #241  
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rules sound good to me now we just need to get out there and fly some combat
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:50 AM
  #242  
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What date did we pick again? There's a swap meet at the Rose Bowl on February 21, 2009 (8AM to 5PM)...

Perhaps we should try to get some combat going INDOORS?
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:06 AM
  #243  
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I would love to fly some combat indoors if I had a plane that would fly indoors .

Saturday March 28 at 9:00am "Start Combat" will be called. We will fly 5 rounds 30 minutes apart with the last round starting at 11:00. After that we can do some "all out flung watt ya brung". Hopefully somebody will have a Stryker for me to pic on .
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:15 AM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by smokejohnson View Post
Hopefully somebody will have a Stryker for me to pic on .
LOL!!! I'll take you up on that offer!
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:41 AM
  #245  
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LOL
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Old 02-09-2009, 11:17 PM
  #246  
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My two cents...

I think the points for cutting a streamer should be worth more than being in the air when "joy" is called. I know luck is heavily involved, but combat is the name of the game, not takeoff and landing.

I like the forced landing rules.

How do you think we should handle mid-air collisions? I don't purposely go after someones plane unless we agree to do so beforehand. However, it's gonna happen. And sometimes when it happens, one or both are forced to land or simply crash. Are any points awarded?

Since I can't be there every weekend , these are just suggestions. I'm fine with whatever the Unclub combat members come up with. I just lean towards keeping the rules simple and maximizing the fun!!
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:44 AM
  #247  
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I (personally) would like there to be NO POINTS awarded for mid-air collisions -- that will keep people from TRYING for mid-air collisions... I like to keep my airplanes in good repair -- and when an airplane has a small scuff on it, I start thinking about retiring it... (...then again, this is why I don't participate in combat all that often...) :o

I agree that there should be more points awarded for cut streamers, than for "still flying when time is called". Otherwise, I'll just climb so high that nobody can get me, and come down when the furball is over...
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:49 AM
  #248  
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I think if you plan to allow crash up derby in the sky, its takes away from the realism of air combat. The idea is to kill the enemy, "cut streamer", not kill your plane in the process. I know inflight crashes will happen, but Im not sure awarding for it is the right idea. Just my thoughts.

On second note as a new timer to air combat, Im not sure I want to enter where my plane is being hunted not my streamer. I kinda like my birds and this type of stuff would be something I think you would consider as a class of combat, outside of the streamer cutting stuff.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:52 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by tiger86 View Post
My two cents...

I think the points for cutting a streamer should be worth more than being in the air when "joy" is called. I know luck is heavily involved, but combat is the name of the game, not takeoff and landing.

I like the forced landing rules.

How do you think we should handle mid-air collisions? I don't purposely go after someones plane unless we agree to do so beforehand. However, it's gonna happen. And sometimes when it happens, one or both are forced to land or simply crash. Are any points awarded?

Since I can't be there every weekend , these are just suggestions. I'm fine with whatever the Unclub combat members come up with. I just lean towards keeping the rules simple and maximizing the fun!!
I have felt the same way about the points but I wasn't going to say anything unless someone else did. Does 50 for "Joy" sound right? That would make surviving a round worth 100.

No points for mid airs. It would be too hard to decide who hit who.

Thanks for the feedback Tim .

Originally Posted by Lieutenant Loughead View Post
I (personally) would like there to be NO POINTS awarded for mid-air collisions -- that will keep people from TRYING for mid-air collisions... I like to keep my airplanes in good repair -- and when an airplane has a small scuff on it, I start thinking about retiring it... (...then again, this is why I don't participate in combat all that often...) :o

I agree that there should be more points awarded for cut streamers, than for "still flying when time is called". Otherwise, I'll just climb so high that nobody can get me, and come down when the furball is over...
You definitely do not want to fly combat with anything you are attached to, the planes do get beat up. That's why you use FFF from Lowes. $30 for a bundle that you can build more than a dozen planes from. Makes the cost per plane a couple of dollars.

Originally Posted by LipoPilot View Post
I think if you plan to allow crash up derby in the sky, its takes away from the realism of air combat. The idea is to kill the enemy, "cut streamer", not kill your plane in the process. I know inflight crashes will happen, but Im not sure awarding for it is the right idea. Just my thoughts.

On second note as a new timer to air combat, Im not sure I want to enter where my plane is being hunted not my streamer. I kinda like my birds and this type of stuff would be something I think you would consider as a class of combat, outside of the streamer cutting stuff.
Like Tim, I do not intentionally try to hit anybody unless agreed upon beforehand but I don't hold back or flinch when I am flying streamer combat either. The thought of "I better not do that we may hit" never crosses my mind :o. I am doing everything I can do to get on your 6 .
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:06 PM
  #250  
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Guys. I have been following your group and it sounds like you are going through a a rules transiton like we did for a while. As far a box to flying we set a 14ft.crappie pole with a streamer on it in the middle of the field as our center of our box so everyone knows where we should be flying most of the time.And the rules go After flying with the RCCA and their rules and another club I use to fly with this is what we came up with for the last 4 years and they are simple and every rule has a reason for being that rule.So feel free to use some of them if you want. Don't let the rules ruin your fun.
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World War II Electric Combat Fighters Rules

Objective: To recreate the excitement of WWII era fighter combat in an enjoyable, safe competition that will be interesting for spectators, inexpensive (we have at the most $1.75 per airframe using fanfold foam) and challenging for the contestants.


Overview: Competing aircraft must fly within a pre-designated sky box. Twenty feet of streamer will be provided by the contest director to each competing pilot. A streamer is attached to the aircraft by
taping it to the plane on the rudder or rear of the fuslage.


Combat Aircraft Legal Specifications

Plane must meet the following rules:
WWII Propeller driven aircraft and be decorated as such
Must be built using fan fold foam, (flat airfoil only)
Only 2 servos may be used
28 inch or larger wing span. No limit on square inches
BM 2408-21 out runner motor only (available at Muncie Model or from Polk's Hobby online)
Orange, grey, or black GWS 9070 prop
At least a 10 Amp speed control
Can only use 2 cell Lipoly (7.4 volt) battery packs
Nothing can be added to leading edge of the wing to enhance catching or holding the streamer
Rules of Engagement


The CD will give the OK to start combat after last plane has been launched.

Rounds will last 5 minutes.

CD will call stop combat at the end of 5 minutes.

A 20 ft. streamer will be used, with a 6 in. contrasting color for cut purposes.

Any plane that gets its streamer cut, even if it has part of a streamer left, is considered killed and must land.


Any previous cut streamers hanging from a plane when cut will be
considered a kill. The plane must land.

Should any planes have a mid-air, any cuts before the midair will count.

You can only get 1 cut per plane. If you hit a plane that has 3 streamers on it and cut 2 of them it’s still counted as 1 cut.

Should a plane make a cut and be forced to land because the streamer was wrapped up in his prop, he shall be marked as completing the round and scored with a kill.

Any pilot flying overhead or behind the pilots flying line will be instructed by the CD to land his plane at once, and sit that round out.

If you crash or your streamer comes off on launch, you will have to sit that round out.

If you cut someone’s streamer on launch or before start combat signal is given, the parties involved must land and sit that round out.

If someone signals they are landing for some reason, you will not be able to cut their streamer for safety reasons.

If 2 planes cut each others streamers at the same time, each pilot will be awared a kill and must land immediately.

The CD has the last word on all decisions.

Hard hats will be worn by all pilots on the flight line.

All aircraft will be inspected by CD before flying.
Scoring: 10 points per cut

8-10-08 Revised dlw
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