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Parkzone spitfire roll rate !

Old 11-24-2008, 05:50 PM
  #1  
mgb
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Default Parkzone spitfire roll rate !

Hi there,

Sorry if this has been answered in the many other spitfire posts, is there an easy way of increasing the roll rate on the spit, its an amazing model although the roll rate needs some height !

Thanks
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:53 PM
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sorry I forgot to ask would a dx6i enable me to increase the roll rate ? but any other ideas excluding radio upgrades appreciated...
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:26 PM
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groundrushesup
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Originally Posted by mgb View Post
sorry I forgot to ask would a dx6i enable me to increase the roll rate ? but any other ideas excluding radio upgrades appreciated...
The DX6i will likely only improve things if you:

1. Replace the push-pull aileron system with independent servos
2. Use two channels (Flaperon/ Dual Aileron setting)
3. Work with the deflection (more up, less down to combat adverse yaw) until you get it to where you want it.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:13 PM
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Sky Sharkster
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Default Snap Rolls?

Hello MGB,
I don't have the PZ Spitfire, but according to the website there are two "Modes" for control settings. Mode A is low rates, smaller control movement (throw or deflection) and Mode B is high rates. Have you tried switching Modes?
If that's not enough throw, there are two other ways to increase deflection.
(1) Move the pushrod at the servo end out, away from the servo. The connector is a "Press" or friction fit, it "Pops" out.
(1) At the aileron end, move the pushrod in, closer to the aileron surface. For dual surfaces like ailerons, you must move both connections (both wings) the same amount. This involves disconnecting the clevis from the control horn and moving it closer to the aileron.
And, it may be possible that it still won't roll very fast anyway. Outboard ailerons are smaller than full-span ailerons, so they generate less aerodynamic force.
I've included some photos to illustrate this;
Good Luck,
Ron
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Old 11-24-2008, 09:03 PM
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CHELLIE
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Hi The ailerons on that plane are small, One way to increase the roll rate, would be to make the ailerons, longer and wider, and install 2 HXT 9 gram servos, one for each aileron, then it will roll like Crazy, just my 2 cents worth, Take care, Chellie



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Old 11-24-2008, 10:26 PM
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Ben D wing
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Having previously owned the PKZ FW190 and seeing my mates PKZ Spitfire fly, I wonder why the roll rate would need increasing. As factory set, the roll rate is extremely scale like as is the flying speed on the standard brushed motor and it's (IMHO) a pleasure to just cruise around emulating the real thing.
If you are worried about the amount of height lost in a roll, then maybe it might be better to fit a rudder and reduce some of the side slip that way, as per full-size.
There's nothing worse than seeing a scale, or semi scale model cavorting around the sky doing fast manoeuvres and/or speeds.
Just my tuppence (2cents) worth....
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:01 PM
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DetroitHawk
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http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23268

The clipped wingtips helped out a lot with the roll rate, while it wasn't too sluggish stock, once the tips were removed the plane rolled much faster.

IMHO make it go fast, make it carve up the sky, and fly like you are trying to shake a FW190 off of your six.

Speed FTW
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:02 PM
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ltbidrawn
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Default yes....

a dx6i radio will greatly improve the spit's roll rate.
no need to futz with anything else.
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Old 11-24-2008, 11:13 PM
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The first thing I would try is to move the clevis to the closest hole to the control surface (ailerons). Try that first friend. Programming your radio alone isn't going to do it...your servos only move so far (with so much throw to the control surfaces).

Fly your plane the way YOU want to and don't worry about anything else bud. Good luck to you friend.
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Old 11-26-2008, 03:10 AM
  #10  
Larry G
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I fooled with the stock cables and a higher torque servo and finally gave up and mounted dual servos in the wing. You can kill 2 birds by also cutting a slot for a carbon rod to strengthen the wing and run the servo wires in the slot. I ran my wires in the old slots where the cables used to be.

The Spit now has a very quick roll rate, without resorting to clipping the wing tips.

Larry
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:20 PM
  #11  
mgb
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thanks all for the advice, managed a couple of flights since and roll rate seems much better until the wind picks up then it struggles ! awesome flyer though .....
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Old 11-26-2008, 10:38 PM
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Glad you got her worked out friend.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:10 AM
  #13  
DetroitHawk
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Originally Posted by Larry G View Post

The Spit now has a very quick roll rate, without resorting to clipping the wing tips.

Larry
Well without resorting to tearing your plane up to add servos that don't need to be there: you can do what the brits DID in WW2 to fix the roll rate of the spitfire. (they clipped the wings which also makes the plane faster)


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Old 11-27-2008, 02:13 AM
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Larry G
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The real Spitfire had no problems rolling with the normal wing tips, it was a very manueverable fighter. The vast majority of Spits in WWII did not have clipped wings, it was something they did on a couple of versions to improve performance at lower altitudes. Many Spit fans (me included) love the Spitfire's beautiful eliptical wing shape and don't want to clip them, prefering to find another solution for the PZ Spit.
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:26 AM
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DetroitHawk
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Originally Posted by Larry G View Post
The real Spitfire had no problems rolling with the normal wing tips, it was a very manueverable fighter. The vast majority of Spits in WWII did not have clipped wings
lol just wow, guess they clipped the wingtips just for fun then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwbxZ03dp0s

@ the 1:50 mark in this video they talk about the clipped wing "the wing tips were taken off with two bolts and two screws, and it enabled a faster roll rate" none the less this great video shows two spitfires flying around. Pretty good footage IMO

Last edited by DetroitHawk; 11-27-2008 at 03:54 AM.
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Old 11-27-2008, 03:55 AM
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Hey guys, I think mgb is looking for options to improve his roll rate, and the options you guys have given seem to work given your personal experiences...no need to let the difference in personal preferrences cloud the issue. Good winds guys.
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Old 11-27-2008, 08:18 AM
  #17  
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I agree angler. I admit that I didn't know they clipped the wings and when first seeing one, I recall thinking how ugly it was. The eliptical tip is good looking, Larry; however, that clipped tip has grown on me. It does look more aggressive in the sky. Now if only I could have one of each and every other model of bird I prefer.

Great thing about this hobby is the diversity of the planes and pilots.

Oh and happy Thanksgiving to all of you state-siders.
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Old 11-27-2008, 01:22 PM
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Yeah, Happy Thanksgiving guys!
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Old 11-27-2008, 06:40 PM
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Larry G
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No problem with the clipped wing Spit here. I've been a plastic scale modeler for years, and the only Spit I have built for my collection is a mark 14 with clipped wings. I just wanted to present historical fact, that the real Spitfire rolled ok with the standard wing tips and most of them did not have this mod. I don't think they clipped the early Spits, you start seeing pictures of clipped Spits arount the Mark 5 era, but still the minority. Merlin HP went up as they developed the new versions, maybe the extra power allowed the Spit to fly ok with the decreased lift from the missing wing tips.
The clipped wing cut drag and increased speed at lower altitudes (denser air) and yes, it rolled faster too. Look at warbird air racers, lots of them have clipped wings since they never get up high into the thin air and want the decreased drag to go fast as possible.

I'd imagine that clipping the PZ Spitfire wings makes it faster and roll quicker, but does it also increase stall speed and make it faster to land?
D.Hawk, what were your findings?

There are ways to get the PZ Spit to roll faster if you want to keep the stock tips if you prefer that look. I have too much throw in mine now, I'm going to back it off to get closer to a scale roll rate.

Clipped or stock, nothing wrong either way, go with what you like best.

Happy Thanksgiving!!!
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Old 11-27-2008, 07:32 PM
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Larry G
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The Spitfire, Me109, and Zero were unique since they were all pre-war designs that were updated and modified for the entire confict and remained front line fighters instead of being replaced by completely new designs. They increased weight, HP, and performance. Here are some Spitfire numbers;


..............Mk I (1939) ......Mk IX (1942)...... Mk 21 (1944)
Weight .....6200 lbs........... 7500 lbs .............9900 lbs
Horsepower 1030 ..............1565.................... 2045
Top speed 362 mph ...........408 mph ............450 mph


I wonder if the Mk I was easier to fly for the new pilot fresh out of flight school compared to the late war version?



Here is my PZ Spit evolution;


.........Mk II (stock, 2007) ......................Backdated to Mk I (2008)
All Up Weight 25 oz ...............................................32 oz

powerplant 480 geared ........................................Turnigy 35-30A
brush type.............................................. ......... brushless
10 amps? .................................................. ......29 amps


So even though I've gone backwards in paint scheme, I've mimicked history in power and weight increase. My extra weight comes from epoxy crash repair, wing spars, rudder with steerable tail wheel, main landing gear, extra servos.

Increased wing loading does make it harder to fly slow and landing speed has increased. Real benefit of gobs of power is that if you get in to trouble down low, get the spinner pointed up and ram the throttle forward for instant altitude!!

Last edited by Larry G; 11-29-2008 at 01:54 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:05 PM
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The total surface area removed in thej clipped wing was very small, i didn't notice the stall speed really change probally due to the small % of wing surface removed. It did show more of a torque roll on launch when i limp armed it, but that was easy to fix with a good firm throw.
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Old 11-29-2008, 02:22 AM
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Larry G
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Originally Posted by DetroitHawk View Post
The total surface area removed in thej clipped wing was very small, i didn't notice the stall speed really change probally due to the small % of wing surface removed. It did show more of a torque roll on launch when i limp armed it, but that was easy to fix with a good firm throw.
Thanks for the info. Since I added the landing gear and can do ROG takeoffs i found it a little easier to control than hand launches, but really only had a couple of scarey throws in many flights. I find the shock absorbing properties of the tires and gear wires handle clutzy hard landings better than Spit belly alone. Out here in the Arizona desert, many of the open fields that make good flying spots are bare dirt which are no good for belly landing. Retracts might be cool, but I don't think I want to go that far.......
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Old 09-30-2012, 03:44 AM
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On the Parkaone Spitfire Mk IX, the roll rate could easily be improved by making the alierons longer, even almost full width of the wing. With a straight edge and a pen, extend the hinge line of the stock aileron on top of the wing. On the bottom extend the edges of the grove. Carefully cut the new hinge line from the top being careful to keep the blade between the extended edges of the grove on the underside of the wing. Trim the foam to create the groove and use shin pad hocky tape to make a continuous hindge, works very well. Trim and glue a small piece of foam to fill the gap to creat a continous aileron. Voila, a much improved roll rate and nice ailerons to use for flaperon function on landings.

Gotta love those Parkzone planes, the modification possibilities are numerous and fun.

Have a great day,

Creative RC
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