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Vintage Kyosho meets 21st Century

Old 05-04-2009, 02:14 PM
  #26  
Wireless
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Hi Nikzan,

Yes, I flew with both Lipos in place, because otherwise the CoG is too far back. They are 3S1P 2400mAh 20C packs, so I made up a parallel wiring harness so I flew with 3S2P. I flew for maybe 20 minutes and used around 1500mAh capacity from each pack.

The Turnigy motor is rated at 3-4 cell Lipo. I will run the same 3S2P configuration so it will be fine. The upgraded ESC I ordered will take 40A so will be OK I think. The Turnigy are a bit overrated in terms of power so 40A should be comfortable.

What is the specification of your plane now...? Motor / Battery etc and how long did you fly for...? Great photos by the way...!

It was really nice to see the old plane in the air again. Especially one that is so rare and does not have many fans. Shame because it's a lovely looking plane.
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Old 05-05-2009, 02:58 AM
  #27  
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Guys, what were your flight weights with the respective power systems?
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Old 05-05-2009, 01:50 PM
  #28  
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Good question...! I never weighed my bird 'flight-ready'. I'll do that when I have put in the new gear. Suffice to say it was significantly lighter than with the original 1200mAh 6-cell NiCd and 19T buggy motor/gearbox powerplant.
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Old 05-05-2009, 03:06 PM
  #29  
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Thanks for the comments on the photos.

as weight is concerned i will have to find a scale to find out. the items i used are a turnigy plush 80A esc that weighs 120 grams, a spitz brushless 480w motor that weighs 136 grams (850kv) and on the first outing i used a rhino lipo 4s 2150 pack weighing 240 grams. on the second one i used a 2250 3s rhino pack i have for my kyosho caliber 450 that weighs 199 grams. i have no clue how much weight is the motor mount i fabricated.

the rest of the equipment is standard as it was originally including 2 futaba standard servos. the ugly foam wheels i installed are most likely of the same weight with the originals, while the folding 11x6 propeller must be tad heavier than what was originally used, but again have no idea how much.

i do not have the skills to find thermals, but got an approximate 20 minute flight up and down before i got anxious for the juice of the battery. after i charged the pack, it took about 1200 mah, so had more.

i guess i could be more "conservative" with the left stick, but what the hell, she's fast and enjoyed the curious faces around when the plane got full throttle... power is not an issue here. when i was re-building the plane i was scared that she might be again underpowered and went the overkill way... ended up with a sort of glider able to pull unlimited vertical....

Nikos

Last edited by NIKZAN; 05-05-2009 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 12:02 PM
  #30  
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Sounds really good Nikos, and excellent to see photos of the Valencia in flight.

My new motor and ESC will hopefully arrive soon. It's raining in my area of Switzerland at the moment, so no rush.

I wish I understood better the whole kV malarkey that goes with brushless motors. Wattage is fine - you are going to need a certain amount of power to fly a certain plane - power to weight ratio etc.

The kV rating is the number of krpm per volt applied so how is this relevant to planes...? Is it linked in any way to watts (ie: more powerful/larger motors turn slower...?) What is the difference between say a 250W 750kV motor and a 250W 1500kV motor in a plane...? You just use a smaller / finer prop on the faster motor...?

Cheers,

Rup
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:26 PM
  #31  
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nice to hear that somewhere it is still cool.
in athens we already see 30-32 degrees.

on the technical stuff now... i have very limited knowledge and it is proven by my choices of hardware on my valencia..

but what i understand is that the kv comes along with the type of battery you are using. using your example i doubt that a 1500 kv motor would be driven by more tha 3s battery pack.
if i understand it correctly it goes with the selection of the propeller, the type of the plane and ofcourse the thrust you are getting. sorry but i do not know more so in order for me not to give false info i would rather stop it here and do some study on it myself.

hopefully i will be able to understand something further and more important to be able to put it in english...
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Old 05-15-2009, 12:34 PM
  #32  
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Cool thanks for the info Nikos. I'll do some investigation myself and we'll see what we can come up with. Good news is my new motor arrived today It looks a lot more substantial. Should have no CofG problems with this...!!!
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Old 05-16-2009, 07:51 PM
  #33  
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Hi guys,

I spent a few hours today installing my new power system into the Valencia. After the little RC-Smart 1550 gave up the ghost. In went a Turnigy AerodriveXP SK 35-36 1400kv / 550W and a cheapo Hobbywing Pentium 40A ESC. I also bought two new 3S1P 2800/30C LiPos.

It took me some time to re-engineer my mount to accept the substantially larger (and better engineered) Turnigy motor, but even with my limited skills, I have fabricated something that I am really happy with - to the untrained eye, you could be forgiven it was OEM which is exactly what I am looking for. I dry-assembled everything first whilst tweaking the fit. Once I was happy, I threadlocked and tightened everything up and conducted a few tests.

Firstly I have weighed the model flight-ready and it's 1.3kg (2.8lbs) with both 2400 packs on board in 3S2P and 1.5kg (3.3lbs) with both the 2800 packs in 3S2P. The Turnigy is supposed to deliver 550W so in my ignorance I assumed this would be OK.

After checking CofG which was slightly nose heavier than before, yet still within tolerances, I figured it was time to bite the bullet and go fly.

It's been a stunningly beautiful day here on the shore of lake Geneva so I had no excuses...! Off I went to my little flying spot, checked everything out before giving it the beans.

Well, it's fair to say I no longer have anything like scale performance. The take-off run was approximately 20 feet followed by a leap into the air. I immediately throttled back to around half throttle and the climb was astonishing. Comfortably climbing out at 45 degrees attitude with plenty of speed. Once I had a hundred feet on or so, I levelled out and throttled back to fly a few figure-8s and test the stall characteristics. The slightly forward CofG has made the stall completely benign. It no longer drops a wing, but just mushes out while steadily losing altitude, all controllable on the rudder.

After a lazy glide back down to the field, I flew a low pass and gunned the throttle to 100% for the first time - this thing has formidable climb. Absolutely stood perpendicular on the tail it goes straight up. In fact, further test showed it was delivering positive power-to-weight at around 75% throttle.

With a huge grin, I flew for around half an hour including a dozen climbs to 100m or so followed by a glide back. A couple of slow fly-bys to admire the pretty airframe before landing safely.

I am in the process of recharging the LiPo at this time, but judging by the first pack of the two, it looks like I used around 1100mAh, so a total of 2200mAh across both packs - approximately 45% of the capacity.

What can I say...? Massive grin at this time

Photo below after the flight

Edit: LiPos charged. Total mAh used was 1050 from each pack. This setup will comfortably fly for an hour without breaking sweat...!

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Old 05-18-2009, 09:02 AM
  #34  
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great update!!!
i think it is time for me to try and weigh my plane aswell. the only difficult part is to find where...

what propeller are you using?
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:20 PM
  #35  
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Hi Nikos,

I weighed my plane using some electronic kitchen scales. It was pretty easy.

I am using a Windsor/Master Airscrew Electric only 9x6. I have ordered a range of props to test with though, including some 3-blade. I will report here how I get on.

A 10" will not clear easily with standard undercarriage, but the 9" is fine and looks about scale.

I have also ordered a wattmeter so I can remove some guesswork.
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:35 PM
  #36  
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tell me about clearance...
have an 11x6 on my valencia

i will do the measurement when somebody is not at home...

she's always saying my "toys" are everywhere...
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Old 05-24-2009, 05:10 PM
  #37  
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Hi Guys,

My girlfriend took some photos of my Valencia in flight today, here is a small selection. Hope you like them.







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Old 05-25-2009, 09:23 AM
  #38  
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great pictures, great lake view ...
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:59 PM
  #39  
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OK guys, the next escapade in the Valencia tales is here. Sadly, through completely my own fault, I crashed my Valencia into a tree. Yeah, I know, REALLY dumb. It glides FOREVER when you don't want it to...! Serves me right for assuming I could switch back to planks without thinking after years of heli flying. The good news is the damage is not bad and is repairable like new. Just a small hole in the leading edge of the wing and a busted prop. I am waiting for a day off to go to the model shop to get some balsa. I am also re-creating (and improving) the original Valencia decals (stickers) so it'll look really sweet once finished.

In the meantime, while I wait to get my balsa, I have installed an 8x6 3-blade prop. The clearance is great of course, but with the added effect of it working like a much larger prop because of the extra blade. (Anyone know of the approximate conversion 2 -> 3 blade...?) I took the liberty of buying as Wattmeter and I am glad I did as any sustained 100% throttle is going to cook things quickly. At full power the load was 550W and hovering around 55A. Not great for my 40A (cont) ESC, so I'll upgrade (again) to an 80A for extra headroom.

To be honest, 100% throttle will see 100m AGL in about 3 seconds flat and will probably tear the wings off in level flight so it's not as if it's going to be run flat-out much - I just want the extra security of a big ESC working lazy rather than a small one working hard.

I also installed some proper hinges for the elevator instead of the crappy Kyosho tape. It looked really cheap (because it is really cheap). This is a much nicer solution. I think I'll recover the tailplane to make it look nice again as the original 1986 covering is looking a bit tired...!

I'll take some more photos prior to the next test flight as it's dark here now.

Cheers,

Rup

PS: If anyone has a Kyosho Breezin 1200 they want to sell or knows of one somewhere, please let me know as I'd like to acquire one. Thanks guys.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:55 AM
  #40  
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pity for the accident, don't worry, s**t happens...

on the esc, get again a chinese cheapie, they work pretty well. turnigy plush are perfect.

how do you plan to improve the decals? i am really interested as my plane looks horrible with no stickers at all... ideas people!
nice thought on the hinges, i had them all replaced in mine as well with nylon ones.

on the propeller issue, i know that when you install a 3 blade one you have to go 1 inch down on the diameter, leaving the same pitch, when you install a 4 blade you have to go down 1 inch on the diameter and 1 inch less on pitch as well.

multibladed props are less efficient though as the blades move in the airflow of the previous blade, while in 2 bladed setups the air is "thicker"??? since each blade has a bigger distance from the other -sorry for bad english-.

Nikos
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:08 PM
  #41  
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Hey Nikos,

Thanks for the prop size explanation. I figured that 8x6 would be about right and it's not far off. I could limit the load by perhaps going to an 8x4 which would give me better climb performance and would probably be more suitable so I might try find some. I knew about the efficiency issues with more blades, but I don't think it's too bad a trade-off for the clearance which is now zero-problem.

Good choice on the ESC. I ordered exactly that last night...! A Plush 80A is on it's way soon with the programming card to make life easier.

You know some people tried a 1-blade prop...! Just with a counter-weight on the other side...! Crazy.

For the decals, I have scanned in a brand new decal sheet from my NIB Valencia and am in the process of completely re-drawing the main decals. I will then get them printed onto transparent vinyl to stick to the plane. I will not do the big red colour strips - instead I will use coloured vinyl to make that.

I have also taken time to make some changes to the original decals so that as well as the normal ones there are some more modern ones. For example, I have recreated the "Electric Powered by Le Mans" decal but there is also a new version that says "Electric Powered by Le Mans Brushless" It takes a long time to re-draw the decals, but the finished quality of the graphics is actually better than the original decals.

Cheers,

Rup

Edited to say: I'll post examples of the decals later when I get home.

Last edited by Wireless; 06-04-2009 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:13 PM
  #42  
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Rup

nice to see that at least two people work on their valencias

nice pick on the turnigy card, enough reason to buy is to get rid of the stupid music... all in all best value for money.

i had heard of single bladed planes but not on r/c planes, only control line.

the sacrifice of the power (if any) by using a multi bladed propeller
is not going to be noticable in this type of aircraft, i will go for a multi bladed one as well (jealous) and will install again the original wheels and some wheel pants

i would really appreciate if you could email me the scanned decal sheet so i would be able and print it myself and make my valencia a bit more beautiful.

would love to see photos of your plane with the new "dress".

cheers
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Old 06-04-2009, 06:56 PM
  #43  
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Hi Nikos,

Multiblade looks good. I'll take a photo and upload it later on.

For the decals you are welcome to what I have but it is just a selection of a few decals such as the type etc. I did not scan the whole sheet as it's too big and there is no point reproducing large sections of red colour using a printing process as it's much cheaper to simply use red coloured self-adhesive vinyl and cut it to shape. Do note that I have not reworked all these decals yet. It's massively time consuming (a typical decal sheet is 20+ hours work) so the ones below are just cleaned up lo-res samples. I need to fully rework them to get the quality.





I also took the liberty of replacing the stupid guy in the plane with someone more cool

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Old 06-04-2009, 07:12 PM
  #44  
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great, i'll try and print the cool guy for a nice addition to my plane.
credits will be given to you of course :d
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Old 06-04-2009, 07:54 PM
  #45  
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PM me through my profile with your email address Nikos (I assume this is possible) and I'll send you a higher resolution version.

Here's my bird with the three blader:





I just had a quick flight and the 8x6 3-blade is not quite as good as the 9x6 2-blade but it's plenty good enough. It'll still climb vertically

Edited to say, the wires you see sticking out either side of the fuselage are the antennas for the 2.4GHz Rx, just in case you were wondering...
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:39 PM
  #46  
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Hi guys,

More work now completed on the Valencia. Replaced the 8x6 3-blade prop with a 9x6. Yes, more current draw but even more performance. As over 50% throttle is only ever used for maximum of 5 seconds at a time, I figured it was OK.

I have repaired my crashed wing (see above posts) and have also recovered the tailplane as it's original 1986 film was looking tired. Excitingly, I have finished my first set of custom decals. I have attached some photos so you can see how they came out. I have not replaced the solid red or the stripes. I will do this when I get some coloured vinyl.

I hope you like the results of the decals - All the decals you see bar solid red triangles behind the cockpit and the stripes down the fuselage were completely recreated from scratch. I am really pleased as the quality is superb - better by quite some way than the original Kyosho decals. I think the plane looks really nice now. For some reason the tailplane looks bent in one of the pics below but it's a trick of the camera, it's actually perfectly straight.

With it's totally new power system, new radio, new covering and new decals I think it's fair to say it's genuinely a 21st Century interpretation of a Kyosho classic...!

Cheers



















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Old 06-23-2009, 02:05 PM
  #47  
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great pics there. congatulations. i like very much the 3 blader and the decals of course...

since here it is now too hot to fly and have to get up really early to avoid the sun and have some decent flights, i'm not flying that much.
i'll probably take the valencia out next w-e for some gliding at the field...

hopefully i'll do something for the looks as well...
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:06 PM
  #48  
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Default Old Kyosho / Union model kits for sale

Old Kyosho / Union model kits for sale

NIB complete.

Union Model:
- Challenger
- Bigi Coupe
- Stick Boy
- Cessna Centurian
- J-1B Turbo

Kyosho
- Petit Ballard 900
- Petit Dreamin 850

Offers please Located in England
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:50 PM
  #49  
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Interested in the Petit Dreamin. How can I PM or email you to discuss...?
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Old 11-10-2009, 08:29 PM
  #50  
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Default Kyosho models

Petit Robin 850

Petit Breezin 1200

Both models have micro servos, brushless motor & ESC.

Flown with 3s 740 lipo. No damage to either model.

Breezin has flown 3 times.

Petit Robin 850 - 65

Petit Breezin 1200 70

Plus shipping
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