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Wheel Pants?

Old 09-15-2013, 10:40 PM
  #1  
dereckbc
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Default Wheel Pants?

Other than cosmetic is there any reason to keep them on a plane?

Reason I ask is because I have a PKZ Extra 300 and have flown it about 7 or 8 times. 3 of those times the Wheel Pants have caused damage to the plane when landing in grass. 2 of th e3 times minor damage ripping a wheel off. Today ripped the whole under carriage off the plane.

They get hung up and snag the grass. They gotta go IMO. Even thinking of over sized wheels
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:49 PM
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rcers
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Yes there is but so tiny on RC airplanes there is no real reason, other than looks. On full scale they can get you 3-5 MPH at the same power setting. For models that is not needed with or significant power systems.

I take them off at our field too - until I get to the large models.

WARNING - If you are going to take your pants off at the field you should warn the other fliers.

I crack myself up...

Mike
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:46 AM
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gramps2361
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Yes there is but so tiny on RC airplanes there is no real reason, other than looks. On full scale they can get you 3-5 MPH at the same power setting. For models that is not needed with or significant power systems.

I take them off at our field too - until I get to the large models.

WARNING - If you are going to take your pants off at the field you should warn the other fliers.

I crack myself up...

Mike
You crack me up too!
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:52 AM
  #4  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
Yes there is but so tiny on RC airplanes there is no real reason, other than looks.
Yep that is pretty much what I thought. We do have a paved runway, but darn if I can hit it every time. Wheel Pants are history.

Putting bigger tires on to. Did wonders for my Apprentice. No more nose overs on grass.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
WARNING - If you are going to take your pants off at the field you should warn the other fliers.

I crack myself up...

Mike
Now thats just plane funny dont care what your mamma said thats funny
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:41 AM
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CHELLIE
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Unless your Flying off of a hard surface, leave the wheel pants off, They just get in the way and will cause problems for you as you have already found out, Take care, Chellie
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:49 AM
  #7  
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I couldn't even think of wheel pants at my field. Be nothing but a big headache for me. I went with bigger wheels those thin five spoke jobbers. They are thin and go through the grass plus light wgt. They may not look great on the ground, but I don't see em in the air.
http://www.headsuphobby.com/MPI-Ligh...eter-D-270.htm
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Old 09-16-2013, 03:30 AM
  #8  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by CHELLIE View Post
Unless your Flying off of a hard surface, leave the wheel pants off, They just get in the way and will cause problems for you as you have already found out
Yeah you would think I would have learned the first two times.

Fortunately the damage sounds a lot worse than it really is. It di drip off the whole undercarriage, but it is a molded piece with four spikes that are pressed into the foam. It took a chunk of foam on one of the spikes but fits back perfectly with a some epoxy. Already got it fixed and you cannot even tell it ever happened.
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:30 AM
  #9  
kyleservicetech
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Other than cosmetic is there any reason to keep them on a plane?

Reason I ask is because I have a PKZ Extra 300 and have flown it about 7 or 8 times. 3 of those times the Wheel Pants have caused damage to the plane when landing in grass. 2 of th e3 times minor damage ripping a wheel off. Today ripped the whole under carriage off the plane.

They get hung up and snag the grass. They gotta go IMO. Even thinking of over sized wheels
Yup
As others have indicated, wheel pants and grass fields often cause problems.

My only experience with them is on a perfect landing with my 500 watt model, the landing gear busted loose, and both wheel pants went through both the bottom and the top of both wing panels.

Found out the Mfg attached the LG to a 1/8 inch thick lite ply sheet, 1.5 by 3 inches wide, glued in with a few drops of thin CA. There was virtually no glue holding that LG plate in place.

That LG plate was replaced with an 1/8 inch thick aircraft ply sheet that is glued to two bulkheads inside the model. Only added an ounce or so of weight, and after over 100 flights, some with lousy landings, no further problems.

As for giant scale gassers with wheel pants, we've had a lot of in flight problems where one of the wheel pants rotated 90 degrees, causing real problems while landing.

More than a few club members take the wheels off of their foamies, and just belly land them on the grass field. Some even go so far as to cover the bottom of the model with some packing tape to protect the foam against sliding on the grass.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:31 AM
  #10  
solentlife
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Take them off ... even if you survive landings, they still work loose on the fixings and later become a real pain.
My Ultimate, Cessna and Edge fly just the same with or without.

Keep them for static display on the ground !!

I have various that fix points are ripped out of, loose etc. just sitting on my shelf.

Nigel
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:54 PM
  #11  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by kyleservicetech View Post
More than a few club members take the wheels off of their foamies, and just belly land them on the grass field. Some even go so far as to cover the bottom of the model with some packing tape to protect the foam against sliding on the grass.
I have actually considered that but have hesitated. I have a couple of issues I am not comfortable with:

1. Cosmetic having tape along the bottom. Wouldn't Duct Tape be the most durable? Would be Ugly as Sin.

2. Hand launching. I am a beginner with no experience hand launching.

3. Sounds like you would need extra props from being damaged upon landing, and possible even damaging the motor or ESC if the power is not off at touchdown. I have seen what happens to motors and ESC when the prop is jammed and power on. They let out the magic smoke.

So tell me more please to overcome my fears. One minor issue I see with this plane is the tail gear. It is fixed to the rudder via one piece wire that serves as the axle. See pix

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Old 09-16-2013, 05:07 PM
  #12  
solentlife
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
I have actually considered that but have hesitated. I have a couple of issues I am not comfortable with:

1. Cosmetic having tape along the bottom. Wouldn't Duct Tape be the most durable? Would be Ugly as Sin.
True ... but if you choose your tape well - you can always have coloured or paint it.

2. Hand launching. I am a beginner with no experience hand launching.
I have 45 odd yrs at RC and still no good at hand-launching ... so you shouldn't feel too bad !!

3. Sounds like you would need extra props from being damaged upon landing, and possible even damaging the motor or ESC if the power is not off at touchdown. I have seen what happens to motors and ESC when the prop is jammed and power on. They let out the magic smoke.
Surprisingly you usually get away with not breaking the prop, but yes you can ... and main point is to close throttle completely so prop stops turning at slow speed.

So tell me more please to overcome my fears. One minor issue I see with this plane is the tail wheel. It is fixed to the rudder via one piece wire that serves as the axle.
Tail wheel's no problem, but yes it can catch in ling grass or other and pull on the rudder ... but usually it's ok. Best is the tail wheel that is hinged and then coupled by band to rudder ... that doesn't hurt rudder then

Nigel
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:47 PM
  #13  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
True ... but if you choose your tape well - you can always have coloured or paint it.
Already figure that one out and already have the paint.

Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Surprisingly you usually get away with not breaking the prop, but yes you can ... and main point is to close throttle completely so prop stops turning at slow speed.
Engine break is already set. Wished it could be set to break at 3/9 O-Clock. But operator must remember to cut throttle before touchdown. Landing for me is a white knuckle experience and might forget. This plane lands hot and needs some throttle to prevent Tip Stall.

Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Tail wheel's no problem, but yes it can catch in ling grass or other and pull on the rudder ... but usually it's ok. Best is the tail wheel that is hinged and then coupled by band to rudder ... that doesn't hurt rudder then
Understand but this plane is a solid steel wire. It is possible to cut it out with the right tools.

THX for your comments.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:54 PM
  #14  
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I fly in the mornings, my wings are always covered with water and grass clippings because of the dew!

If it didn't have retracts, I'd fit at least fenders, would save me a ton of cleanup and drying.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:14 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
I have actually considered that but have hesitated. I have a couple of issues I am not comfortable with:

1. Cosmetic having tape along the bottom. Wouldn't Duct Tape be the most durable? Would be Ugly as Sin.

2. Hand launching. I am a beginner with no experience hand launching.

3. Sounds like you would need extra props from being damaged upon landing, and possible even damaging the motor or ESC if the power is not off at touchdown. I have seen what happens to motors and ESC when the prop is jammed and power on. They let out the magic smoke.

So tell me more please to overcome my fears. One minor issue I see with this plane is the tail gear. It is fixed to the rudder via one piece wire that serves as the axle. See pix

for foam planes clear packing tape is great light & strong enough on a side note if your just beginning get a high wing a champ or a supercub, join a club & use a buddy box the extra is a tough plane to fly for a beginner
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:16 PM
  #16  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by zoltron55 View Post
for foam planes clear packing tape is great light & strong enough on a side note if your just beginning get a high wing a champ or a supercub, join a club & use a buddy box the extra is a tough plane to fly for a beginner
Been there done that. Have AMA and club membership. Already wore out the instructors welcome. I have an Apprentice S and bored with it. Time to move on.
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:03 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Engine break is already set.
Suggest you do not use Engine Brake.

Understand but this plane is a solid steel wire. It is possible to cut it out with the right tools.

THX for your comments.
No problem to convert ... the wire fixed under rudder is more than enough length. The nice pivot mounted to fuselage end stays.

Basically I would cut away the foam 'holes' neatly so wire is now not held. Turn wire outboard so you can get two pairs of pliers on and bend a 'hook' into the end ... glue a wire hook into the underside of the rudder, the wire being pushed into a drilled hole ...
Then to finish of - you get a normal elastic band and connect the two hooks so the rudder pulls the wheel arm round with it ... but not so tight that band is rigid.



Nigel
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:27 PM
  #18  
dereckbc
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Suggest you do not use Engine Brake.
Please elaborate why.

THX
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Old 09-18-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
No problem to convert ... the wire fixed under rudder is more than enough length. The nice pivot mounted to fuselage end stays.
You lost me. Why would I even want a Tail Gear if I belly land? Tail Gear likely to grab/snag grass and possible rip tail off.

I can see a skid wire, but not a Wheeled Gear.

I must not be understanding what you are saying
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:59 PM
  #20  
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What you want is Scotch brand book repair tape: http://www.amazon.com/Scotch%C2%AE-B.../dp/B00006IF5R

Super tough, clear, makes an excellent protector for belly landings. Also works great for reinforcing foam wing hinges if they start to tear (don't ask me how I know this).

As far as the tail wheel goes I'd see if you can carefully cut the mount on the fuselage loose, then the wire should slip out of the rudder bracket. That way you could easily remount it if you want. Solent's mod is a good one if you fly from a rough surface with gear attached as it will allow the tailwheel to flex with the bumps without transmitting the shock to your rudder servo. Similar connectors are commonplace for larger RC taildragger models, particularly giant scale birds.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:13 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Please elaborate why.

THX
All depends on how efficient the brake is. A while back, I had one ESC where the brake was so effective, it unscrewed the prop nut. Each time I used it. And, there was no way to disable it.

A windmilling prop likely has more drag than a prop that is not turning, so this allows your model to slow down more during landing. And, on the smaller models, the prop will usually survive landings even if it is still spinning.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:22 AM
  #22  
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+1 the ONLY reason you use brake is to stop a folding prop - so it can fold. That takes power and frequently unscrews the prop.

And you don't want to land most models with no power! That is bad as the power is what helps control the descent.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:50 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by rcers View Post
+1 the ONLY reason you use brake is to stop a folding prop - so it can fold. That takes power and frequently unscrews the prop.

And you don't want to land most models with no power! That is bad as the power is what helps control the descent.
Yup
Years ago, I designed a microcontroller operated brush type ESC for my Astroflight 40 and 90 brush motors. Several of the Astro 40's were installed in 10 foot wingspan sailplanes with folding props. Still got a few of those brush type ESC's.

It was heck trying to get that prop to fold. And with the prop windmilling, you might as well of had a 15 inch diameter pie plate in front of the model. The windmilling prop caused the sailplane to fly like the spoilers were up.

Had to add an electronic brake to eliminate the problem. Easily done with a microcontroller.

The Castle Creations ESC's have either a soft or a hard brake programming option. The soft brake will stop a spinning prop without twisting the motor out of the airplane.

But, for all of my acrobatic models, the brake function is disabled.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:10 AM
  #24  
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i turned my apprentice into a tail dragger, and then put on 4 inch dubro main wheels!! can you say bush plane??

makes takeoff and landings on our grass field a breeze.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:13 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by dereckbc View Post
Please elaborate why.

THX
Engine brake stops the prop and it is then reluctant to turn.... if it stops with blade down - you lose the prop.
With no engine brake, the prop can freewheel and less chance to break on landing.

With electric we don't have same as IC..... where we used to fit prop according to compression point.

Engine brake is usually only for folding props, electric cars.

Nigel
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