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Stuka Dive bomb siren sound for RC aircraft…

Old 02-08-2008, 09:09 PM
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CFIT
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Smile Stuka Dive bomb siren sound for RC aircraft…

Ok boys and girls. I’ve done some leg work and testing, and not quite there, yet!

In flying my Slow stick (LOVE the SS, over 3 hours logged actual time in air, only 3 hours actual RC flying time, this thing is a BLAST!) the thought of a siren type whistle, only during high speed dives much like the Stuka Dive Bombers of WW-II, would be a neat novelty to add to the RC flying experience. In a quick RC store search, I found clip on whistles for the wings, much like the Nerf football whistles, but they are a single pitch or stair stepped pitch, not a linear rising siren style pitch like the Stuka Dive bombers.

Here is where what I’ve found/done thus far.

I remember as a kid those tubular whizzer siren whistles used at parties, those have the exact sound I am looking for. So I ordered a 12 pack of those early last week, (arrived a couple days ago)

Click ME for Siren whistles.

In the mean time, I did lots of searching here and on RCG. Found a bit of info regarding these party whistles for use on our RC aircraft, some people tried it, only a few of those that said they would try it actually reported back, and of those, no one got them to work, (mostly on Stuka replica’s). I still had to try it for myself and was willing to put a little time into customizing/modifying to get what I wanted. I did find mention of a company selling a siren type noise maker called the air screamer for RC planes from a company called www.i4cproducts.com, but can’t seem to find them any more. Drat!

Any how, whistles arrive, give one to each of my daughters to play with, leaves Dad with 9 whistles now, (my lovely wife of 19 years just rolls her eyes…) Testing begins. Holding up to my mouth and blowing, I find some start up and sing easier than others. So I find the three easiest singers and those will be my test whistles. Now with the whistle a few inches from my mouth, blowing into it, the disc will start to spin, but only barely sing at all. Hmm… Ok, so we need more "ram air" to create enough pressure differential across the disc to get it to spin and sing… I don’t have a wind tunnel so I’ll use a vehicle driving the down the road. First, lets build a couple air scoop funnels to test as well. First funnel is a Dixie cup with top cut down. Second is the top cut off of a Coke-a-Cola 2 liter bottle.







This sort of testing is best done with a designated driver. Also found it best to reach as far out in the air stream as you can without leaning your body out of the vehicle to get clean undisturbed air flow. (many other disclaimers apply here, but you are all mature enough and have enough common sense, if you attempt this on your own).

Testing was performed two way over the same stretch of road and averaged to cancel any wind effects, (no wind this day)

Whistle all by its onesie.. At 35 MPH ground speed, the whistle would just begin to sing, barely. 50 MPH sings pretty good, 70 MPH, sings real good.

Dixie cup funnel. 35 MPH, no whistle. 40 MPH starts to sing barely, 50 MPH, sides of Dixie cup fold inward. Another cut down Dixie cup, same thing, nothing at 35-40 MPH, 40+ it just starts to sing, sides of cup fold in above 45-50. Probably shouldn’t cut the top off, none the less, the whistle started to sing at a higher speed with the Dixie cup. Dixie cup with its flat bottom most likely disrupts the air flow as it enters the whistle, thus requiring more air speed to make it whistle.

2 liter bottle funnel. Started to sing at 30 MPH, 35 MPH had just slightly more pitch than the whistle alone at 35 MPH. 50 MPH sings a little higher pitch than just the whistle with out funnel. No testing above 50 MPH.

Conclusion. Whistle by itself needs quite a bit of air speed to start singing and even considerably more speed to rise the pitch substantially like the Stukas of WW-II

Dixie cup, added drag, needs more speed to sing.

2 liter funnel. With its smoother transition from the outer ring to the whistle, it seems to grab more air and start the whistle singing earlier, i.e. it worked, but only a little better and added noticeable drag as well.


Ok, moment of truth. Lets mount them to an RC Aircraft and fly them! Test plane, GWS Slow Stick, powered by a TP 2410-09y Outrunner, 1147 prop, 1600 mah Lipo battery, wing stiffened with large carbon fiber tube that fit “over” the dihedral braces, (overkill for this wing) plane weighs in at around 19 oz.

Whistles; One mounted directly under the battery just behind the prop, one on top of the wing under the rubber bands where they criss-cross. ROG take off, steep climb out at approx 60-70 degrees, approx 200-250 foot altitude, full power dive, no whistles, but the TE of the wing tips would buzz with a neat sound, cool. Did this 4 times, no whistle/siren heard over the planes other noises.

Now for the 2 liter funnel, attached between the landing gear. Battery strap held the top edge of the funnel, little zip ties held the sides to the landing gear.
Take off had a bit longer than usual rollout, needed full throttle to climb-out like it would under 2/3 throttle before, (LOTS of induced drag). Same 200-250 foot altitude, full power dive, speed was noticeably slower, but I could actually hear the whistle starting to sing over the air crafts other noises!!! Did this a couple times, same result. The siren singing was faint as heard on the ground, but could be heard none the less while in a dive. If it were louder, I would call this a partial success, but with all the induced drag from the funnel and how soft the siren song was volume wise, not really a success.

Any other ideas to try/test? Anyone else found something that delivers that Stuka dive bomber like siren sound during a dive?

Maybe there is some way to install a teeny tiny EDF in one of these whistles, or a teeny tiny EDF might whistle enough just fine on its own, (do they even make a ¾” to 1” dia EDF?) Any other sirens of sort available?




Last edited by CFIT; 02-08-2008 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Typo's
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:27 PM
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Dorsal
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I think a NACA inlet duct would be a more efficient shape, and produce a lot less drag, although I'm not sure where you'd mount it on your SlowStik. Possibly it could be shaped like 1/2 of your 2-liter funnel, still attached between the L.G.
Just Google on "naca inlet" for a ton of info on the design.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:03 PM
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What about a 20 oz pepsi bottle. Cut the end of the bottle off and leave the length. It might not have as much drag and maybe the extra length would create more air velocity.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:45 PM
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I actually chopped down GWS 3020 props for my Stuka which actually spin if you blow on them.
Haven't flown it yet, but I'm hoping I get some kind of a noise out of them in a dive.
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:32 AM
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What a great, fun thread! Thanks for posting it, Bill. Gives me some good, too-cold-to-fly day reading.

Also, this pushes me ever close to picking up a Slow Stick of my own to play around with.

Good luck getting it to work! And be sure to record us some video of the final apparatus in action.
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Old 02-11-2008, 04:37 AM
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There is no end to what folks can do with a slow stick. Very interesting indeed.

Frank
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Old 02-11-2008, 02:26 PM
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A company in the orient, WindRider I think used to offer whistles on thier flying wing models and had some videos of them screeching away. A guy over on RCG (JASTA I think) in the scratch foamy section was working on a simular project for his Stuka, but dont know how it turned out. Keep up the good work!!!!

Bob
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:18 AM
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Default whistles

You can buy a three whistle set from http://www.windrider.com.hk/products/product.cfm?id=1 for $2.00. I plan to mount these in my next foam wing with a servo to block the air vent so I can turn it off and on.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:39 AM
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Thanks for the “windrider” recommendation guys. I believe those orange whistles are the “single tone/pitch” whistles that I mentioned in the first post, like in the Nerf football and Frisbee. The white cylinder looks interesting.. Hmmm..

*** edit *** I just grabbed my daughters whistling Frisbee and these whistles appear to be the exact same whistle as the orange “windrider” whistles, and they are indeed a single pitch/tone whistle, they don’t “siren”, i.e. the pitch/tone does not ascend /descend at varying air flows/speeds, which is really what I’m looking for, like the Stuka dive bomber.

At any rate, I will be trying these Frisbee whistles on the Slow Stick, maybe tomorrow, weather permitting, and will report my results.



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Old 02-12-2008, 07:40 AM
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I would bet those little whistles would sound well, if you mounted them behind the prop. I had one of those tiny "reed" style (like a Sax) whistles a while back but lost it. Barely blow at it, and you'd get a good sound.
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Old 02-12-2008, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAAP View Post
*** edit *** I just grabbed my daughters whistling Frisbee and these whistles appear to be the exact same whistle as the orange “windrider” whistles, and they are indeed a single pitch/tone whistle, they don’t “siren”, i.e. the pitch/tone does not ascend /descend at varying air flows/speeds, which is really what I’m looking for, like the Stuka dive bomber.

At any rate, I will be trying these Frisbee whistles on the Slow Stick, maybe tomorrow, weather permitting, and will report my results.
I hope the whistles are enough to drown out the sobs of your poor little girl after you dissected her frisbee.

All so you can have a whiny plane. Heartless.
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Old 02-12-2008, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
I hope the whistles are enough to drown out the sobs of your poor little girl after you dissected her frisbee.

All so you can have a whiny plane. Heartless.


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Old 02-12-2008, 08:11 PM
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I think as long as she's there to see the plane fly, she'll like that better than the frisbee. You just better hope they work, that's all.
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Old 02-12-2008, 08:21 PM
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that, or she'll be hoping the whole time it's in the air, that it crashes, so she can have her whistles back...
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:13 PM
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Default EDF fan ?

I like the sounds that com from a GWS EDF 40. You are going to wind up with a electric motor & a fan blade of some type . Gives tone & volume control. PLUS you can mount it where it really belongs. The howl will be directed foward. Short 5 second bursts can be generated from small EDF's easily in a overvoltage condition.

Rich


DANGER!!!! Wear gloves & eye protection when running EDF's on the bench. The impellors of EDF 30 & 40's come off EVERYTIME if not glued on. Put a 1/4 of a drop of Lock Tite into the spinner hole only. I used a THIN piece of electric wire strand to do it right. Lock Tite on the shaft causes it to slide into the motor bearing.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
I like the sounds that com from a GWS EDF 40. You are going to wind up with a electric motor & a fan blade of some type . Gives tone & volume control. PLUS you can mount it where it really belongs. The howl will be directed foward. Short 5 second bursts can be generated from small EDF's easily in a overvoltage condition.

Rich


DANGER!!!! Wear gloves & eye protection when running EDF's on the bench. The impellors of EDF 30 & 40's come off EVERYTIME if not glued on. Put a 1/4 of a drop of Lock Tite into the spinner hole only. I used a THIN piece of electric wire strand to do it right. Lock Tite on the shaft causes it to slide into the motor bearing.

Hmmm... is there an inexpensive source for these EDF 30/40's?....
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:39 PM
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Nerf whistle testing…

Okie dokie, did some NERF whistle testing on the Slow Stick.

With the Nerf whistle at various locations across the chord of the main wing, from the LE to the TE, the whistle would indeed whistle, though barely audible, (I’m sure other locations on the main wing, say out towards the tip might generate louder results?!). Best results were from the LE to top of the camber, behind that, it didn't want to whistle much, if at all.

Flight attitude, i.e. Angle of Attack AND location on the wing, did vary the intensity of the whistle and if the whistle would even sing. At best, even at full song, it was not very loud.

The biggest conclusion I came way with is more a personal opinion than factual data. This style of whistle has a monotone shriek sound typical of this type of whistle, and as such, if it were louder, after a couple minutes the sound would become annoying. Again, that is just my personal take on this style of whistle and to others, may be quite soothing..

In short, this type/style of whistle is NOT what I’m looking for. I'm looking for the rising/varying pitch of a siren.

Another Novelty of the Siren is that it could be used as an audible air sped indicator of sorts…


I also stopped by the hobby store and picked up a couple small props, shallow pitch, like Bill G posted above, and will try to duplicate the original Stuka design, (thank you Bill for the idea. Let us know how yours turn out…)

Here is short video clip of the as tested Nerf whistle and the tested whizzer siren from the very first post in this thread. It is that siren sound, or close to that siren sound, that I am trying to achieve.

First is the Nerf, second is the Whizzer siren…

*** edit *** for some reason the Youtube video is not showing on my screen, so here is the link just in case...

v=gcTgSzX3mGE



Last edited by CFIT; 02-12-2008 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by BRAAP View Post
First is the Nerf, second is the Whizzer siren…

*** edit *** for some reason the Youtube video is not showing on my screen, so here is the link just in case...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcTgSzX3mGE


I think you have to only have the video's V id in between the youtube tags. Click the "Quote" button in the bottom right of my post here and you can see how I formatted it to get it to work.

Last edited by gzsfrk; 02-12-2008 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
I think you have to only have the video's V id in between the youtube tags. Click the "Quote" button in the bottom right of my post here and you can see how I formatted it to get it to work.


Thank you so very much...
Paul
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:10 AM
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Default Braap

Try www.allerc & www.bphobbies They sell complete brush & just the EDF parts.

First look at the GWS site and their EDF fans section. Some are available as 6 v. or 9 v........ www.gwsus.com

Rich
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:17 AM
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You might try putting a post on Flying Giants asking about Stuka sirens. I remember back around 1995 or so there was a guy making sirens for giant scale Stukas. His unit looked like the front section of the old police/fire sirens used on cars and trucks. It also had a servo controled brake system that allowed you to turn it on or off. It was air driven and attached to the landing gear strut in the scale location. Thinking back I believe the impelllar looked like the one you find in a handy vac. If you could find some sort of small vac unit like maybe the ones used for computer work maybe that could be used. I think the trick is an impellar turning inside a cage with Whistle slots along the outer wall. Don't know if that description is clear but if you could see the picture in my mind you'd know exactly what I'm getting at.

Charlie
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gzsfrk View Post
I hope the whistles are enough to drown out the sobs of your poor little girl after you dissected her frisbee.

All so you can have a whiny plane. Heartless.

LOL
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:45 AM
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Hi Paul I bought a bunch of those whistles too on Ebay and was planing on doing the samething, hope it works for you, I will be following this thread with great Interest Take care, Chellie
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:07 AM
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Hi Paul maybe you could record this stuka siren on a small tape recorder, and use a bigger speaker on the plane, it might work hope that helps, Chellie

http://www.rcexchange.com/stuka.wav

http://avanimation.avsupport.com/sound/Stuka.wav

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFFFN...eature=related

Last edited by CHELLIE; 02-17-2008 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:54 AM
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mini recorder

http://cgi.ebay.com/SONY-MINI-DISK-R...QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.cutratebazaar.com/rcarp3536.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Tape-Record...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/DIGITAL-AUDIO-VI...QQcmdZViewItem

mini loud speaker

http://cgi.ebay.com/Small-Loud-Mouth...QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Mini-Twins-S...QQcmdZViewItem
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