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Heinkel 280 kit bash (retire your GWS 109)

Old 02-13-2008, 07:13 PM
  #1  
Bill G
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Default Heinkel 280

I have a good flying balsa 109 scratchbuild now, so this GWS 109 needs to turn itself into something unique. I always wanted an HE280, have build about 6 ME262s, so why not. I got to looking at the fuse and noticed extreme similarity in the shape, as its just asking to be bashed into a HE280. The wing is a differnet story. I'm in the process of bashing a GP Hellcat wing that the LHS gave me, since it had a small shipping bend. At first sight, it does not look like a HE280 wing, but it has the correct gull bend, and its slowly getting there now. Had to build up the LEs with tri-stock and sheet to make them straight across with no taper.

I have several nacelle sets including a GWS A10 set laying around here, so the nacelles should be no problem to fabricate.
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:32 PM
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max2112
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That looks like a pretty cool project you're starting Bill.

Please keep us posted on the progress!
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:40 AM
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Bill G
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Thanks Max.

Got the wing test fitted. Starting to look like something. Now to stare at some pics of HE280 models for a while, and get the shape burned into my head.
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:07 PM
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Strick
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Default I Like!

Looks like you have a great idea going there! Very Unique Aircraft with nice lines.

Go, Strick
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:58 AM
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Bill G
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Thanks S.
I always wanted one of these, but got caught up in the 262 thing. (Built like 6 of them) After so many, the HE280 has become more appealing. It does have nice lines, even if it dosen't have a swept wing.

The GP Hellcat wing aileron setup fits well in this plane, and can be serviced from the cocpit. Even the stock wing pan may be recycled in the build. The stock elevator cable was able to run underneath the wing, after it was installed, so the rework needed for this bash hasn't been bad at all. Made a new elevator flap tonight, and lightened the heck out of it with holes.
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:29 AM
  #6  
FlyingMonkey
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What is that you're using to cover the old wing seat?
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Old 02-18-2008, 06:34 AM
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Bill G
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Originally Posted by FlyingMonkey View Post
What is that you're using to cover the old wing seat?
I'll get some pics posted later today. I didn't use that cover in the last pic. It was the wing pan from the GP Hellcat wing. I ended up using a GWS A10 foam nacelle half. It fit in there perfectly, and was a bit oversized in width, so I could sand it to shape and blend with the rest of the fuse. Worked out real well, and its all foam now. That plastic pan I was going to use was a good bit heavier than the foam, which is one reason I didn't go with it. I still may cut out part of it to make my battery/servo access door cover. It should work well for that.

I also sculpted a balsa mold for the front windshield and heat pulled the clear plastic windshield tonight. Worked well. I may make the rear part of the canopy slide back, like the full size plane. I want access in there, since the aileron servo will be accessed from the cocpit.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:19 PM
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Bill G
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Filled in the ME109 wing saddle with a GWS A10 nacelle half, which worked well. The area has been filled and sanded to shape. Also made a balsa mold for the front windshield portion, and heat pulled clear sheet plastic over it, to fab the windshield. Worked pretty well.

I stole my Himax 2015-4100 Microfans from my A10 for the project. No, the nacelle half wasn't stolen from it too. The A10 flew with them, but would be better with EDF55 fans, so I honed out the nacelles and installed a pair of EDF55 fans in the plane, since it was originally an EDF50 version. I ran them on old yellow label TP 1320 packs, made into a 4s pack, which worked pretty well. A ProLite 4s-1320 pack would be even better.

The nacelles for the HE280 are made from 2 sets of A10 nacelles joined together. They will be shortened a bit for this plane, as they came from a larger scratchbuild. The small diameter Wemotec Microfans will make the nacelles look a bit more scale, as they look stupid on these jets when they are straight tubes. The foam nacelle diameter is large enough to make a decent taper at the fronts, as the full size plane has.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:02 AM
  #9  
max2112
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Great looking photos, Bill.

I am quite impressed with your ingenuity!

I can't wait to see the finished product.
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:35 AM
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Bill G
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Thanks again Max.

Well I could almost fly this thing now, if I wanted to. Might be a good idea before finishing everything.

The nacelles are pretty much finished now, and modeled after the V3 version, shown in the plastic model pic below. For the V3 version, the engine outlet pipe sticks out of the nacelle covers. This worked out well, since I made an exit tube that is the exact diameter that I calculated for this fan setup.

The mid wing really hogs interior space in the fuse bottom, so I ended up putting all the gear in the cocpit, and the batt will go in the fuse bottom. I even got to pirate part of the GP Hellcat wing pan for the battery door too. It has a nice vented scoop in it, for cooling air.
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Old 02-23-2008, 03:57 AM
  #11  
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Nice job, looks great! Just wondering, what type of filler are you using there?
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Old 02-27-2008, 02:04 AM
  #12  
Bill G
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Originally Posted by Geoffrito View Post
Nice job, looks great! Just wondering, what type of filler are you using there?
The filler is just plain Hobbico balsa colored filler. If you can get DHP, its better, but the LHSs don't seem to carry it.

The plane now has removable steerable landing gear, using GWS mounts. The nose steering uses a modified GWS mount, with a piece of alum tubing pressed over the inner hub, which has a piece of fuel tubing inside of it. The fuel tubing creates a friction hold for the gear wire. A pushrod simply exits the fuse and has a 90 degree bend, which the nosegear steering arm presses over.

The plane still has a few detail to go, but its pretty much complete now. About the same 25oz weight and wing area as my ME262 scratchbuild, which flies well. The plastic HE289 V3 model in the last photo is the plane which I modeled.
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Last edited by Bill G; 02-29-2008 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:24 AM
  #13  
Bill G
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Flies well. Definitely an ROG plane at 31" span and 25.5oz AUW with Microfans. Needs a little larger batt than the 4s-1320 PL which didn't give much flight time. Looking at the 1800 4s Polyquest, which seems to have an acceptable weight and package size for the plane. As long as it has the same output as the 1320 PL, it will be fine. A bit longer than 2 minutes before bogging down would be nice. Back home in one piece.
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:32 AM
  #14  
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looks great bill, as always!
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Old 03-04-2008, 03:46 AM
  #15  
Bill G
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Thanks. This has to be my favorite EDF I've built as of yet.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:52 PM
  #16  
pburt1975
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Great job following the vision Bill. It really came out nice. Have you had a chance to fly it with a different battery yet?
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Old 03-05-2008, 12:01 AM
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max2112
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Default Fantastic!

Super job, Bill!

Were you able to get a feel for how it handles in flight?

It seems like it would be pretty nimble.
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:44 PM
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Bill G
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Thanks for the comments. Only flown with the 4s TP 1320 PL setup, but I'll probably try 5s, since a number of folks have said that they used 5s successfully on P10 ESCs. I don't care about not having the LVC, since I time the flight.

The plane actually handled really well in flight. The ailerons were trimmed from the original wing size, to look like an HE280 wing. The smaller aileron size probalby made it a bit more docile, and was not a handful whatsoever. The elevator incidence "guess" seemed good too, as it flew with the flap level to the elevator. No serious trim issues.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:30 AM
  #19  
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Default Afterthought City, finally back on this plane

The first flight of the plane went fairly well, although the cumbersome 4cell TP-1320 setup only had the burst power necessary to get the plane off the ground, and then had to be throttled back. The battery was a 3 cell connected in series with a single cell. This was necessary as the single cell was positioned over the aileron servo body, which hogged most of the battery compartment where a 2 or 3 cell lipo could have sat.

Well I came up with the bright (really dumb) idea of using higher output 2 cells connected in series, for more power. The problem was that they had to sit far forward, as the rear of the batt compartment had the aileron servo body in the way. The CG was simply too far forward now. These planes with underslung thrust do like a forward CG, so I thought that the few mm forward from the first flight would not be a problem. In flight, I'm convinced that one of the aileron cable sheaths came unglued at the fuse. Could have been after the crash, but the fact that the plane went into an uneplained ballerina spiral would indicate it happened in flight. The far forward CG did not help the law dart situation. Somehow the plane sustained less damage than I would have expected, but enough to just be sick of the entire project and shelve it for a while. Still, I didn't forget the plane had flown well and could be decent, with all the afterthoughts sorted out.

Finally got back on this thing. The first change was to swap the 4100kv short can motors with 6000kv motors, capable of producing ample power in the Microfans on 3s. This enables me to use 3-cell lipos like the 1800mah EVO and produce 300W easily. The second change was to mount the ESCs in the nacelles, which should have also been done in the first place. Well cooled quality ESCs generally have no problem driving 3 efficient sub-micro servos on 3s, using the stock BEC.

Next, the aileron servo was relocated such that the body did not protrude into the battery compartment. Initially, I had thought that the battery would not need to sit in that area, but it turned out that it did, or the CG would be too far forward with it mounted in front of the servo. The steering servo had been in the side of the battery compartment, but still had issues with the battery rubbing against it and the pushrod. The elevator servo was difficult to access, as it was at the very rear of the compartment, slightly under the fuse bottom and not in the main opening. The obvious solution was to cut another hatch and move both of them rearward. Much better now.

With the mods complete, a 3s-1800 EVO fits in the battery compartment where it should be for proper CG setting. The fans now produce around 170W each, although I plan to not run that hard as I want the motors to survive. The previous setup with the 4s-1320 TP was struggling to produce something like 280W burst just for takeoff, and could not sustain it. This setup has no problem running at 300W for takeoff and judjing from previous flights, it will fly well at 250W for flight which I would prefer to do and not destroy the motors, as there are other jets for speed.
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:22 PM
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max2112
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Default Blast from the past!

BillG,
It's great to see that this project is still alive and kickin'!

Sorry to hear about the one crash, though it seems to have ultimately made it a better model.

When do you think you'll get to fly her next?
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Old 01-11-2009, 04:55 PM
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Bill G
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Originally Posted by max2112 View Post
BillG,
It's great to see that this project is still alive and kickin'!

Sorry to hear about the one crash, though it seems to have ultimately made it a better model.

When do you think you'll get to fly her next?
I guess as soon as the snow clears off the park road. It's bad enough trying to take off between all the road signs along the tiny road.
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