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Don't Be Afraid Of Balsa

Old 01-21-2009, 05:05 PM
  #101  
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I'm going to be building a FF SIG MOnocoupe while I am in Iraq, looking forward to a realaxing build.
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Old 01-22-2009, 03:34 AM
  #102  
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Default Aliphatic

Got this kit for Xmas, went together with aliphatic only. I replaced the tail outlines with laminates out of 1/32, just as light, twice of strong. A few pins, a bit of hot water, some aliphatic, done.

The pilot is one of my yard sale finds, suits my flying style!
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:34 AM
  #103  
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Can you tell us a brand name for the aliphatic glues?

Thanks,

Frank
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Old 01-22-2009, 03:33 PM
  #104  
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Titebond, Titebond II, and Titebond III, Superphatic, are a few. They pretty much look like white glues, but with a yellowish collor. Often called carpenter's glues. Water clean-up, moderately fast dry, strong joints, almost no odor, but sometimes make sanding a bit hard.
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Old 01-22-2009, 03:48 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
Can you tell us a brand name for the aliphatic glues?

Thanks,

Frank
I usually use Titebond II. Listed as PVA(polyvinyl acetate). I think that qualifies it as aliphatic; I'm forgetting my chemistry lessons, but it's commonly understood as such and available EVERYWHERE cheaply, check Home Depot, Sears, et al(also Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue)......and then there's the aforementioned Super Phatic, which is the only glue I know of that actually says "aliphatic" on the label.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:22 PM
  #106  
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Just for the heck of it, I just Googled Aliphatic Resin Glue. Very interesting. Major brand, or at least the one with the most references, is the Titebond line. Apparently, even Great Planes Pro Bond is repackaged Titebond. They also mention SigBond, available from Sig.
It also looked like the Aliphatic moniker is just a meaningless word, since most of these glues are just polyvinylacetate glues, just like the white glues. The yellow carpenter's glues are yellow because of additives to make them a bit more water resistant.
I think the second or third Google page even had an application chart on where to use different types of glues, with Aliphatics as prefered for balsa and plywood, with CA types as a secondary use.
Also interesting, the first time I heard about using aliphatic resin glues was about 1967 or early 1968. Went to a couple local hardware stores and hobby shops looking for some, but nobody knew what I was talking about, but one clerk suggested that maybe I could try the Titebond (I think). Tried it and liked it.
Also, I never had any luck with laminated strip outlines till I started using the stuff.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:24 PM
  #107  
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Hey 50+, great post. Nice information on aliphatic glues. Too bad it's a misnomer for PVAs. It's never too late to learn.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:25 PM
  #108  
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Hey, advertising hype always makes a lot of things sound better.
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Old 01-22-2009, 04:26 PM
  #109  
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Check (not in the mail).
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:23 PM
  #110  
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"Supercalifragilisti.... Ah, what the hay, wood glue...
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:56 AM
  #111  
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Thanks for the info on the aliphatic glues. I think I'm going to give it a try.

Frank
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:26 AM
  #112  
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I have been using TiteBond II almost exclusively building my rockets. It is very strong and sets up quickly.
Originally Posted by Murocflyer View Post
Thanks for the info on the aliphatic glues. I think I'm going to give it a try.

Frank
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Old 01-23-2009, 05:21 AM
  #113  
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I rarely use CA on a balsa build. I use Titebond almost everywhere unless it needs a little epoxy. Haven't had one come apart yet....by itself anyway.
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:29 AM
  #114  
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Don't be afraid of balsa. What a great name for a thread. In the age of the foam and plastic plane, there is clearly a fear of balsa among many new flyers. But it is fun to see them take that first step into wood. And you know what? They like it!

And, with today's laser cut kits, building with balsa is easier than many newbies expect.

Balsa, it's not just for old guys anymore.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:26 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
I rarely use CA on a balsa build. I use Titebond almost everywhere unless it needs a little epoxy. Haven't had one come apart yet....by itself anyway.
I'm soon to start my first laser cut kit, a Mountain Models Clipped Wing Cub. The instructions state to use thin CA, with one exception I have found where epoxy is used on the joiner of the two wing-halves. You are to fit the pieces togetherthrough many steps, then go and hit each joint with CA. Were I to use Titebond, I'm thinking I then would have to undo each joint to apply the glue. Correct?

I've read a lot of build threads and reviews on the MM kits, and never I've yet to find someone say the CA bonds were bad.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:42 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by gfdengine204 View Post
I'm soon to start my first laser cut kit, a Mountain Models Clipped Wing Cub. The instructions state to use thin CA, with one exception I have found where epoxy is used on the joiner of the two wing-halves. You are to fit the pieces togetherthrough many steps, then go and hit each joint with CA. Were I to use Titebond, I'm thinking I then would have to undo each joint to apply the glue. Correct?

I've read a lot of build threads and reviews on the MM kits, and never I've yet to find someone say the CA bonds were bad.

Thoughts?
Thin CA wicks into the joint so, yes, you can assemble a joint and apply thin CA. But I agree that if you are going to use titebond you will need to apply, then join. But you have plenty of working time with Titebond.


What I use

I am not much of a kit builder but when I do build a kit, or when I am repairing a wood structure I tend to use CA because of the fast set. I can move right along.

I have used titebond where I had a joint that could sit for a while or where I had some gaps as titebond is better for loose joints than thin CA. However I do have medium and thick CA on the bench too.

I resort to epoxy only when it is called for in the kit as I find the mixing messy and I always seem to mix way too much or not enough.

I have the usual epoxy liquids, but I also have a group of paste epoxies from EpoGrip. One has fibers mixed into it for excellent strength, gap filling or fillets. The paste stays where you put it so there is no running. I find I am reaching for the paste more and more, rather than the liquid.

Ventilation

I have two vent fans on my workbench. One is the fan from a bathroom ceiling fan. That one sits on the bench with a dryer vent hose that goes to a plate that replaces one of the window panes. The second is also a dryer vent kit but the fan is mounted by the window. This is a booster fan for a hot air heating system.

The bathroom fan is pretty loud. The other one is almost silent, so I use it more often. I move them close to the work area. The one with the motor by the window allows me to clip the flex tube right next to the work to carry CA and epoxy fumes away from me.

Paint

Between the two of them, I have enough suction that I can create a paint booth using plastic shower curtains around my work bench. No smell goes into the house.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:45 PM
  #117  
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And, for something really different, for my smaller rubber powered Free Flight, I still have a couple tubes of Sig and Duco cement. CA and Yellow glues are a little heavy, and CA is also too brittle for joining anything smaller than maybe 1/4" square strip, and too hard to control. When you get down to Peanut and Pistachio scale, CA just doesn't work for 1/20" square strip. And when using some of the indoor weight contest grade balsa, it just acts like a sponge on thin CA, gaining too much weight for good flights.
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Old 01-23-2009, 03:56 PM
  #118  
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Yes Tom, our little planes require our "help" in coming apart. Oh how I now about that!

Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
I rarely use CA on a balsa build. I use Titebond almost everywhere unless it needs a little epoxy. Haven't had one come apart yet....by itself anyway.
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:03 AM
  #119  
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Some great comments in this thread. I just wanted to stop in and say thanks for them. Great reading.

Frank
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:26 AM
  #120  
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The first thing i did when i bought my first plane was scrap the foam tail and build a balsa one with hinges. Increased rudder surface and the ability to move more on good hinges, really helped its flying
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:29 AM
  #121  
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I am a newbie/beginner, and I will hopefully try both balsa and foamies. I've had my eyes on a sweet little balsa P51 kit for a while now.
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:25 PM
  #122  
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I first got introduced to this hobby about 15 years ago when my uncle was heavily into it.
I obviously couldn't afford the $1,000 + per setup at that time, but he ran a hotel and was single, so the big kid with a bigger bank account factor allowed him to go crazy.

All of his models were kit builds from balsa, and he even taught me a little when he bought me a balsa glider with tissue paper cover (don't remember the name of the liquid we painted over the tissue paper to make it tight)

I'm very glad for this thread, because I have just started up the hobby with a Firebird Freedom, and was considering how I could make a better tailerons for it from foam, but now I think I will try to make a balsa replacement !
Might even try a balsa insert for the inner wing area to change it's stall characteristics.
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:59 PM
  #123  
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Balsa's not just for hobbies either. I just spent most of last night making a shelf for our medicine cabinet out of 1/8" birch plywood with a 3/16"x1/4" balsa stiffening rib and 1/4" ply supports with balsa triangle stock stops. It's a 50 year old prefab cabinet with a proprietary support system, so sometimes you have to improvise!
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:39 AM
  #124  
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Default A question about Duco

Hello 50+ I have been building for years and using Titebond and T-88 primarily and CA on occasion. But I have just ran across the Dumas Pietenpol and building a full scale version I felt like it would need a little brother. It looks like a simple build but was taken by the reccomendation of glue. He specifically recommends "CAB" Glue So I picked up a tube of Duco with the kit. Did I get the right stuff? My hobby guy was at quite a loss. (Although he usually is with me, I still swear by Sig Silkspan)
The choice of "CAB" glue is due to the lightweight (did not know this) and its ability to flex (always a plus)...
Your Input?
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Old 09-03-2009, 06:42 AM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by buzzbomber View Post
Balsa's not just for hobbies either. I just spent most of last night making a shelf for our medicine cabinet out of 1/8" birch plywood with a 3/16"x1/4" balsa stiffening rib and 1/4" ply supports with balsa triangle stock stops. It's a 50 year old prefab cabinet with a proprietary support system, so sometimes you have to improvise!
I have used it as ribs on the empennage of a '70s era Chotia Woodhopper! Works great and does not melt when the dope hits it. The original plans called for Pink foam!
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