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Green Models 50" Tiger Moth Conversion

Old 06-04-2006, 03:47 AM
  #1  
Twmaster
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Default Green Models 50" Tiger Moth Conversion

Here is another plane I am converting to E-Power.

Green Models 50" Tiger Moth 30.

I'll be posting some pics of how I did the conversion and what my opinions are regarding the kit and the conversion.

It came well packed and for now I'll say I am happy with the quality of the laser cut parts, assembly and covering on this ARF. This is nearly identical to the Tiggie Hobby-Lobby sells (covered in silver).

This one is in civilian livery with a red fuse and silver wings, tail etc. Fairly nice job on the landing gear too. Also includes a fiberglass cowling. Plane also features pull-pull cables for the rudder and elevator, flying wires, and steerable tail wheel.

One curious thing about this kit is that it just about completely bolts together. The only glue needed (so far) is for the CA hinges in the rudder.

This was designed for a 25-30 sized glow engine. Mine will be set up as follows:

E-Flite Power 25 outrunner
11x8 Master Airscrew electric prop,
E-Flite 40A ESC
2 x HS-81 (Ailerons) 2 x HS-311 (R & E) Hitec 555 receiver
2 x 3S 1700 Vampower Pro lipos to make a 3S2P 3400 pack

Here is a stock photo of the plane:



Thanks for looking. Off to start assembly.

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Old 06-04-2006, 05:04 AM
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Schweet Mike. I can't wait to see that one at the field! I had a GWS 400 sized TM and it really handled the wind well due to the swept wings. Yours should rock. You'll have great power with the Power 25.
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Old 06-04-2006, 05:21 AM
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I'm really looking forward to getting this assembled.

I did find a couple of smallish problems. One aileron binds. and one windscreen was broken.

Had to remove the fuel tank which involved a small saw and removal of a brace. It's likely I am going to have to rework much of the lower firewall for the battery mounting.

Attached are two pics. First is the box contents with the bag removed from the fuse. Second is inside the fuse where the fuel tank is. The small brace across the back of the tank is what needed to be removed.

More piccies later in the assembly.

Last edited by Don Sims; 09-15-2006 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 06-04-2006, 05:56 AM
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What a great looking plane. I'd love to see some video of it in flight.
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Old 06-04-2006, 06:56 AM
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Have you seen this page?
http://www.pacaeromodel.com/TigerMot...version/EV.htm

It's a good review of the electric version of the model.
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Old 06-04-2006, 07:12 AM
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Yup, that's the same kit H-L is selling now. That review is of the older revision of the thing as the current model (like I have) does not come with the wood motor mounting.

The kit I bought is almost identical. But $94 less.
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Old 06-04-2006, 08:38 AM
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tim hooper
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Mike,

That's a nice looking Tiger! They have a certain air about them, don't they?

tim
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Old 06-04-2006, 02:06 PM
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Bill G
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It is nice. I saw one with that scheme in Flying Scale on a GWS Moth. Actually looked really good. Definitely the best scheme I've seen so far on the Moth. Second is the blue/white or just straight silver. Yellow really dosen't do them justice.
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Old 06-09-2006, 03:36 AM
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Just an update. I've been swamped at work this week so little has been done other than the installation of the main landing gear and the vertical/horizontal stabilizers. It's kinda neat the way they did this. Although there is also a warning about how they did this here.

The thing has two blind nuts inside the part of the stationary part of the V-stab. So you run the screws up through the fuse into the stab. Simple. Well not that simple. The screws did not want to thread into the blind nuts so a small amount of work was done to facilitate this. First I took a sharp knife and cleared the excess covering out of the holes the 3MMx50MM screws were to pass through in both the V-stab and H-stab. Next I carefully threaded the screws into the nuts with the stab off of the plane to be sure they fit. I also made sure the nuts were pulled down tight. I then fit everything together and -carefully- started the screws into the vertical. DO NOT PUSH ON THE SCREWS. or you will pop the nuts out. (Don't ask how I know this ).

Also installing the control horns was loads of fun (NOT!) as the holes in the control surfaces did not match the horns.

Anyhoo, here is a piccie of the stab assembled and the main gear.

Last edited by Don Sims; 09-15-2006 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 06-11-2006, 01:40 AM
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Progress!

Well I got the motor mounted. I was worried about the thrust angles but after installing the motor it is obvious the firewall is already installed in the correct position for both down and right thrust. Nifty that!

The installation was deceptively simple. Take the cross mount for the motor, position it so the crankshaft center (marked on the firewall) is lined up. Mark the 4 new holes for the mounting rods. Drill out the holes. I also pushed the existing blind nuts out of their original positions and reinserted them into the new holes. This was a royal pain in the arse getting the things into their holes on the firewall. But it is done and I didn't break too much in the process!

I got a set of 4 Dubro 3MM x 50MM socket head screws, a bag of washers and measured then cut 4 identical 31MM long aluminum spacers out of K&S 1/4" thick wall tube. Screwed it all in place and I have what you now see. I'll be removing everything so I can paint the firewall and put locktite on all the hardware.

Next is for me to devise a battery tray. It is likely I'll be cutting a portal through the firewall to allow the battery to be positioned half under the motor and half inside the fuse.

And now for your dining and dancing pleasure I present a photo of the motor installed.

Last edited by Don Sims; 09-15-2006 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 08-01-2006, 10:40 AM
  #11  
Geoff_Gino
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Hi Mike

My TM is the yellow one and I must admit I find the yellow quite pleasing.
My build has so far gone exactly as yours with one improvement - only one hole for the control horns didn't line up.

I am going to be fitting a Hyperion Z3025/6 to mine and will definite use your mount idea. My measurement for the cowl space gives me 100 mm firewall to prop hub, so it seems as though I am not far off your 105 mm. Will adjust to yours. A pic of the cowl in place with the position for the screws would be great, thanks.

Are you leaving the wings unglued and will you do the assembly at the field? I dont like the idea of the self tappers on the cabane and will probably leave that assembled.

Geoff
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Old 08-01-2006, 03:45 PM
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Hi Mike (again)

One other thing I forgot to metion is that standard servo's do NOT fit in the wing for the ailerons.
I had to cut the pillars off and remount them for micro servo's.
What servo's are you using?
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Old 08-02-2006, 01:58 AM
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I have not yet decided how I am going to attach the cowl. Still thinking about it. As for the wings I am going to leave them unglued as I may wish to disassemble the thing. The information on the H-L web site say that only two things need to be glued. The hinges in the rudder and their motor mount.

One point to ponder. It is my belief this plane was not intended to have the wings removed with any frequency at all. I am going to leave mine assembled once completed. (other than for repairs of course).

For aileron servos I am going with the Hitec HS-81 per Hobby-Lobby's suggestion. This is the same kit as H-L sells other than the firewall and motor mount included with the version H-L sells. You may need to add a small shim to the mounting arms so the slot in the cover lines up with the servo arm.

I read two reviews on the H-L kit (Quiet Flyer and FlyRC IIRC) Both reviews were favorable and helped me decide to purchase this kit.
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Old 08-02-2006, 02:06 AM
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Also forgot to add that I found a really really nice pair of light aluminum wheels with tires while attending the Warbirds over Delaware event. Of course like the knuckle-head that I am I -forgot- to get a card from the vendor selling them so I could get more later.
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Old 08-02-2006, 09:38 AM
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Mike

I think I have decided to go ahead and glue the lower wing. With what I take with me to the club it is going to be more convenient and I will just have to assemble at the field. Did a dry run last night and there are just 4 bolts on the top wing that I'll take off.

Battery and ESC arrive today. Starting to get excited.
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Old 08-03-2006, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Geoff_Gino View Post
Mike

I think I have decided to go ahead and glue the lower wing. With what I take with me to the club it is going to be more convenient and I will just have to assemble at the field. Did a dry run last night and there are just 4 bolts on the top wing that I'll take off.
That's not too bad then.

Battery and ESC arrive today. Starting to get excited.
Careful there big fellah!
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Old 08-03-2006, 07:44 AM
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Geoff_Gino
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Mike

Really excited now. Made real good progress last night as you'll see from the attached.

Excellent call on the battery box and with an added bonus - the blind nuts were much easier to install. :p Added a base plank for the battery and with the pack all the way back it looks as though the CG will be a breeze.
Ran the motor and was pulling 33 amps with a 10x5 APC prop and with 7 amps to spare a 11x5 should work pretty well.

Going to finish up tonight and I'll post final figures tomorrow.

Last edited by Don Sims; 09-15-2006 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 08-04-2006, 07:08 AM
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Hi Mike

You've be quiet.
Finished up last night and here are my final specs.

Motor - Hyperion Z3025/6 (42 amp with 60 A/60s Peak)
ESC - CC 45
Battery - Hyperion 3S1P 3300 mah (20C continous)
Prop - APC (E) 10x5" drawing 32.4 amps
AUW - 1900 grams
Thrust - 1500 grams Static
Actual Watts/lb - 86 Watts
WOT flying time - 6.11 minutes.

I have set the CG to 4" from the LE of the top wing as per their instructions and all the control throws are set to the book.

Seems to be ready for a 'maiden' this weekend, hopefully the weather Gods will be on my side. (We've had some real bad weather with lots of flooding.)
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Old 08-06-2006, 01:10 AM
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Sorry, busy at work.

That Moth looks quite nice Geoff. That's a bit of an unusual looking motor mount you have there. What battery pack have you chosen to use?

I've spent some time working on the landing gear and pull-pull for the elevators today. Can't say that I like the pull-pull wire setup much. How much wire did you have to trim off the control lines? Could you post a pic of the wires close to the elevator?
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:35 AM
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Geoff_Gino
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Hi Mike

My LHS did not have Kokam's in stock and I settled for an Hyperion 3,3 amp 20C 3S1P pack.

I have a lot to report and not all good I'm afraid. The unusual motor mount is from Hyperion for their 30 series motors and quite nice actually as you can use it as a radial mount as well.

Will post pics tomorrow. I found the pull - pull wires OK and had to trim off about 6" off each, everything works well, just time consuming to set up.

Last edited by Geoff_Gino; 08-07-2006 at 07:15 AM.
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Old 08-07-2006, 07:13 AM
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Unhappy Maiden Flight

Arrived at the club very early and had my usual warm up with my wing to settle the nerves. Assembled the 'Moth' and then took my 60" Rainbow for 12 minutes of ccts and bumps and felt I was ready for the 'Moth' maiden.

Was I ever NOT ready for the events that followed.

Taxied up and down twice and the rudder bites nice and early with the tail coming up nicely. Turned around and lined up for take off. Virtually no wind but a some turbulance at 20' feet up, no sweat!! :o

Wound open the throttle and 'Moth' jumped into the air with an immediate heavy roll to the left which needed full right aileron and rudder to correct and climbing like a fallen angel. Needless to say I was to busy trying to fly level to have much time for the 'trims' and after a full 5 minutes managed to get a reasonably level flight which was by no means straight.

Timer went off at 6 minutes which meant it was time to get back onto the ground which was no mean feat and in the end the landing was pretty good. Back to the pits and a serious look at the setup.

There was no obvious wing distortion and the final trim on the ailerons was within 3 mm from level and a lot better than some I've seen, rudder was also not far off. Took the trim out of the radio and adjusted the control surfaces to where they were when flying level and again all looked good.

Charged the battery and in my nervousness did not even note how much charge they took. Ready for second flight which now should have been a breeze.

No change in the wind and I was ready. Rolled out nice and straight and when I hit the throttle same thing - straight up with a heavy roll to the left. Corrected that and an immediate heavy roll to the right and punched straight in on her nose. This broke the motor shaft and amazingly not the prop. Other than slight damage to the firewall which was easily repaired and a broken wing wire the 'Moth' will be ready to go after I replace the motor.

Close inspection revealed the rudder control horn was rubbing on the wing but not binding when on the ground, (I don't think this was the problem but have corrected it)

The usual post mortem in the pits has led me to believe that the plane was incredibly tail heavy with the consequent loss of control. I am going to set the CG at least another 1/2" forward and let her roll out more gently before lifting off.

If any one else has thoughts about the maiden please shout as I am going to need all the help I can get.
Another club member had an exact maiden Sunday except his roll was to the right, but matched my 'flight' exactly.

Last edited by Geoff_Gino; 08-07-2006 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 08-10-2006, 07:16 AM
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OK - obviously not, anyway to round this off I have come up with some final figures after 3 very successful flights yesterday.

Firewall to prop hub = 105 mm (would be better at 110 mm)
CG 3 & 5/8" inches from the LE of the top wing.
Suggested travel of control surfaces in the book set as LOW rates
Added 20% to that for HIGH rates (which I am flying on)

I had a lot of very nice compliments from fellow club members about the looks of my Tiger and lots of queries as to where I got it.

Very happy with the way it is setup and flying now that the CG is sorted.
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Old 08-11-2006, 04:02 AM
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dimadee
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Default 50" Tiger Moth available in Australia

I don't want to hijack this excellent thread, so I will keep it brief.

If there are any Australian modellers out there who are interested in one of these 50" Tiger Moths, I am about to place an order for some kits. They are available in 3 colour schemes as shown below. Expected cost will be around A$250 (possibly less depending on final shipping and transit cost).

There is also a 78" (1980mm) 'maxi' version, and a 'mini' 26.5" (673mm) Tiger Moth.

Please feel free to contact me with any questions or requests at [email protected]

Thankyou

Last edited by Don Sims; 09-15-2006 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 08-11-2006, 05:07 AM
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Geoff: Thanks for the info. I'll be keeping the CG in mind. Sorry but not much work has been done since last post as work is kicking my behind in a bad way. Not to mention I had to purchase four new tires for my work truck today ($1,100!!) so all my toy money is now gone (POOF!) for a bit.

Tim: No worries on a thread hijack! This is a really nice ARF and if any of you folks in OZ are thinking about one of these I'd say do it!

I originally wanted the green/yellow color scheme but the vendor I got mine from only had the red/silver. (not complaining though! )
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Old 08-11-2006, 05:41 AM
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Thanks Mike,

It was your thread that started me looking for the manufacturer of this kit!

I look forward to your flight report.
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