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F-14 80 mm twin EDF

Old 01-21-2016, 06:24 PM
  #1  
fhhuber
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Default F-14 80 mm twin EDF

Just ordered the Freewing F-14

This one hasn't been on the market long.

APPX 10 lbs RTF! 147 oz + 2X appx 20 oz batteries
(kind of hope that's an error...)

Wingspan
1016mm retracted 1550mm extended / 40in retracted 61in extended
Length
1498mm / 59in
Weight
4160g without battery / 147oz
CG (Center of Gravity) 393mm measured back from the intake Power System
2x 3530-1750kV Brushless Outrunner Motor
Electronic Speed Control
2x 80A ESCs, 8A UBEC, EC5 Connector
Propeller / EDF
2x 80mm Metal EDF with 12 Blade Fan
Servos
2x 9g servos (steering, nose gear door)
5x 17g metal gear servos (starboard elevator, starboard aileron, port aileron, port flap, starboard rudder)
3x 17g metal gear reverse servos (starboard flap, port elevator, port rudder)
Landing Gear Electronic retractable main gear and steerable nose gear with all metal shock absorbing struts Required Battery
2x 6S 22.2V 4000mAh LiPo (required)
Required Radio
7+ Channel full range 2.4Ghz (using pre-installed mixing board)
Ailerons Yes Elevator
Yes
Rudder Yes Flaps
Yes
Lights
Yes (landing light, 9x LEDs)
Hinge Type
Nylon gapless hinges
Material EPO Foam Skill Level Advanced/Expert Build Time 2 Hours Recommended Environment Minimum 300 foot runway, recommended pavement, mat, or short turf
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Old 01-21-2016, 09:52 PM
  #2  
crxmanpat
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Good luck with it! I've been eyeballing it since November when it was first announced, but the funding has not appeared yet.

However, I will be getting one sometime this year. In addition to the F-15 90mm, Yak-130 70mm, and whatever else Freewing comes out with this year!
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Old 01-21-2016, 10:13 PM
  #3  
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That looks like a great plane. Looking forward to see how you like it
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:28 AM
  #4  
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Originally Posted by crxmanpat View Post
Good luck with it! I've been eyeballing it since November when it was first announced, but the funding has not appeared yet.

However, I will be getting one sometime this year. In addition to the F-15 90mm, Yak-130 70mm, and whatever else Freewing comes out with this year!
I've been eyeballing the 90mm Red Arrows Hawk by FW .... till I found a better listing -- turns out to be EPS (packing case foam).

But will be watching this F14 thread !

Nigel
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:40 AM
  #5  
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Read a couple of other people's results.. and the consensus is that it needs programming to use tailerons all the time and disable the ailerons when the wings are swept back.

Not for radios with limited mix options.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:31 AM
  #6  
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Big box arrived today

Everything is looking really good with one minor exception.
The fiberglass nose got wrapped too tight and cracked. Its not a bad crack... but its in just the right place to be as visible as possible. Center top of the nosecone.

It came with all decals pre-applied. (I kind of wish it hadn't because I want to remark it for a different squadron)

Unboxing photos taken after removing the plastic wrap. Every piece was wrapped in its own bag Nose was wrapped in bubble wrap taped "extra snug"

http://imgur.com/a/vUHOD

(one link... a bunch of pictures so this doesn't turn into a VERY long DL to view the thread)

The aircraft comes with a mixer multifunction board to allow a 7 ch radio to operate what is essentially a 9 to 17 channel model.
The board handles taileron mix, dual ailerons, flaps, lighting and gear sequencing.

I will most likely bypass the multifunction board for ailerons and elevators due to having a DX-18 and the review saying the ailerons and flaps need to NOT move if the wings are not all the way forward and the board's programming not taking that into consideration.

Connectors are EC5 for the batteries. It came with the EC5 connectors to solder onto batteries or to make adapters. I'll be making an adapter.

The model calls for 2 X 6S 4000 to 5000 mah. (with a note in the plane's info about using 2 X 6S 6000 and it being fine) I'll be using 4 X 3S 5500 and doing a series-parallel so it all acts like one big 6S 1100 mah feeding the ESCs Y'd together.

Last edited by fhhuber; 01-26-2016 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:36 PM
  #7  
Fishbonez
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FH
That looks Awesome!!! Super Cool and Super over my experience level. Looking forward to more.
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Old 01-26-2016, 02:55 PM
  #8  
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From what I've read on RCG, 2 x 6S 4000's fit, but to fit 5000's or higher you need to modify the battery tray for the rear lipo.

Another issue is the wing saddle cover does not fit down snugly.

Minor issues that are easily fixed though. Good luck on the build!
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:41 PM
  #9  
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Note on the wing sweep system

Instructions show one shim washer above and one below the bearings.

Mine needed 2 below and one above to make the wings not bind nearing max rearward sweep.
I suspect that this may be different for each model...

General assembly is not difficult but there are a lot of screws to put in.

there are wire retaining clips installed to prevent the servo lead ends from getting lost. These clips interfere with assembly and must be removed. (might be why some complain about the cover over the wing sweep mechanics and multifunction board not fitting)

The small piece forward of the wing sweep cover (latch base) and behind the cockpit is supposed to be just surface glued. (by the instructions) But it has a mechanical canopy latch. Due to that potential load I pinned the piece to the fuselage with toothpicks in addition to gluing it on.

The canopy/hatch does also have magnets that I would probably trust to keep the canopy on for slower models.
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Old 01-27-2016, 06:20 AM
  #10  
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The multifunction mixer board does the taileron mix coordinated with ailerons fine, (a little playing to get the servos plugged to the right ports so servo reverse gives the correct result) but unfortunately lets the ailerons and flaps deflect with the wing swept back.

Flaps down at all when wings are swept is a good way to break something...
Anyone getting this needs to plug the servos in and get the mixing/directions right BEFORE connecting the wings to the wing sweep servo pushrods.

I'm pulling the elevators, ailerons and flaps off of the board so I can use the mix and "flight mode" features of the DX-18 to put the ailerons and flaps to neutral when the wings are commanded to sweep back.

Needs 9 channels minimum for this and 6 to 8 mixes.
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Old 01-27-2016, 04:25 PM
  #11  
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Yep, that's what a lot of guys are doing. Some are even doing tailerons only and full span flaps like the full scale, and it works really well (and looks cool on landing with full flaps).

I'm going to need a new radio soon. I love my JR 9303, but it is the heli version and was originally FM (I converted it to 2.4 using the XPS module system). It would be nice to have 10-12 channels and full programability.
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Old 01-27-2016, 08:16 PM
  #12  
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Lots of playing around...

Finally settled on use of Elevon wing mode and normal tail for the built-in mix (DX-18, old version, current firmware)

Then turned on flite modes, 5 modes

Used my normal flap toggle and the toggle right beside it. The way flight modes works is slightly strange to me... but it works.
3 pos switch 1 selects mode 1, 2*, 3
IF switch 1 is in pos 2*, then the second switch selects modes 2, 4, 5.

Disabled the wing sweep (unplugged)

Elevator servos to Aileron and Elevator (typical elevon) Adjust reversing, etc to get correct responses.

Flaps (plugged to Aux1 via the multifunction board)
Flaps active on flight modes 4 (appx 20 deg) and 5 (appx 45 deg).

R-Ail to Aux2
Mix Ail-> Aux2, 75%, 75% 100% was over-ranging the available travel. Active all but flight mode 3
Mix Flap -> Aux2, 75%, -75% (not sure why I had to use - one half and + the other... its how the radio works) Active Fight modes 4 and 5

L-Ail to Aux 3
Mix Ail-> Aux2, 75%, 75% (100% was over-ranging the available travel) Active all but flight mode 3
Mix Flap -> Aux2, -75%, 75% Active Fight modes 4 and 5 (Ailerons follow flaps but don't go down as much as the flaps)

I opted not to play the game of flaps following ailerons... But I have done that on other models.

Now... mode 3 the flaps and ailerons are neutral.

Assigned wing sweep to Aux4 and Aux4 to the training button. (I can command sweep with the button, but I never will) Ensured that as long as my finger is off the button the wings are spread wide.
Mix Aux4 -> Aux4, -125%, -125%, offset -60%, active Flight Mode 3.
This gives -100% commanded position (by the graph on the radio display) with flight mode 3. Wings only sweep in flight mode 3.

I CAN'T accidentally put the switches in a position that sweeps the wing with flaps down.

If I assigned the sweep direct to flight mode, they swept in modes 3, 4 and 5.

Gear, still operating via the muti-function board (for the gear door sequencer) on my normal gear switch.

Note I don't tell you which switches to use for the flight modes. You should always use the same one for gear and the same one for flaps so you don't have to remember which does what for which airplane.

Next ... I get to decide my duel rates and expos.

Last edited by fhhuber; 01-30-2016 at 11:15 PM. Reason: tyop
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:17 PM
  #13  
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I noticed that the tail hook is double hinged and yet not connected to any servo...

I'm now looking for how I can hook that up so it comes down with full flaps.
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:23 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by fhhuber View Post
I noticed that the tail hook is double hinged and yet not connected to any servo...

I'm now looking for how I can hook that up so it comes down with full flaps.
Wont it just get ripped off on the first thing it snags?
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Old 01-30-2016, 11:25 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by JetPlaneFlyer View Post
Wont it just get ripped off on the first thing it snags?
It actually looks well attached. I picked up the airplane with it.

I don't plan on actually doing an arrestor wire landing though... Just having it hang low.
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Old 02-05-2016, 10:56 AM
  #16  
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There have been reports of difficulty getting the cover over the wing swing mechanics to sit down low enough not to have a ridge behind the cockpit.

Pretty much as I expected, its the wire routing.

There is a bundle of a LOT of wires in that area. Wires for 11 servos, 3 retracts, jumpers from the multifunction board to the RX, 8 LED leads, ESC control wires and main power wires for the 2 EDFs (10 gauge) plus the BEC (separate from the ESCs) all passing through a narrow space.

If anything about the wires is wrong they block the cover from installing correctly. I've finally got it so the wires aren't in the way. Now to figure out how to keep them from moving if I pull the cover off for maintenance.

I'll get a couple of pictures of the wire routing after I have it tied down so I don't have to wiggle it around to get the cover on.
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:07 AM
  #17  
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Yes, its upside down...



Watt meter of just ONE of the 2 EDFs I may never figure out how to properly hook up to measure both at once.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:34 AM
  #18  
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I'm going a different route on the rear battery placement. Instead of setting them on the "shelf" and having a potential canopy clearance issue, I raised the shelf by 3/8 inch, added some foam from the LiPo shipping boxes and the rear LiPos now fit below the shelf (and are trapped in a manner they simply can not move at all in flight ever)

This solves the issue of the servo leads being a little short of letting me put the RX below that plywood shelf (because the RX is too big to go under the wing mechanics cover plate)
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Old 05-12-2016, 07:11 AM
  #19  
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Finally got around to the test flight.

The plane tracked well down the runway and popped up with just a touch of elevator... VERY sensitive elevator and ailerons. But it needed no trim.

So I brought it around, dropped flaps to full and landed. The flaps setup I guessed at turned out to be good with the plane having no tendency to drop a wing in a stall. Slightly added power and greased it in.

I programmed 40% expo for ailerons and 30% for elevator. Second flight the control was much better.

I noted that adding more than 70% throttle really didn't gain anything. I believe the fans aren't getting good enough air intake. I also measured the fans and outlet. The outlet is just under 90% of FSA (Fan Swept Area) with the normal EDF ducting starting point recommendation being 80% FSA at outlet.
I'll be looking at how to improve air inlet to the fans and try to squeeze down the outlets (probably make new outlet cones from styro cups)

I took it high and swept the wings back. The plane didn't accelerate much. (another hint that it needs ducting work) The roll rate is wild with the wings swept. I may program a lower rate linked to sweep in the flight mode.

I plan to delete the UBEC and power the RX with a separate LiFe pack. I just don't like powering the RX from higher than 4S LiPo and I want the radio to keep working if the heat of drawing appx 70 amps melts the solder joints off the battery. (I've had that happen on 3 other models)

Overall the plane is a winner. Just needs some tweaking for it to fly as fast as it looks.
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Old 05-12-2016, 11:56 AM
  #20  
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Congrats on the maiden!

I love the Tomcat! My favorite.

Have Been following the thread over on RCG for awhile. Probably one of the most complex planes to come out of FW for a while. The full scale Grumman was complex. A programmers dream.

Still need to maiden my F5.

Hawk
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Old 07-30-2016, 05:31 PM
  #21  
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fhhuber
I have a tomcat using a DX9 radio where I sweep the wings in flightmode 3 only after 1/2 throttle. At that point, I use the pitch feature so as the throttle move forward from 1/2, the wings start to move aft. So when the throttle is full open, the wings are all the way back.

That way, if an emergency takes place, immediately pull back throttle to 1/2 and the wings are straight out. The pitch curve can be set graphically so it suits your needs. Also use the throttle curve to fine tune it.

Made the stupid mistake of only buying the 9, rather than the 18, now knowing what the capabilities are.

By the way, I have set up 2 pitch curves to have a variable leading edge flap that drops down to 35 degrees as a function of throttle.
I use a graph curve for landing(throttle low), one to do high alpha(throttle medium) and a sharp high speed turns at about 3/4 throttle as the flap drops.
As the throttle changes, the droop changes so at full speed there is no deflection.

Also used the sequencer on a transport so it is 3 modes, free, oscillates as it taxis so it doesn't speed up and also locks tight for a partial runup.
Wish I had 5 sequencers.

Set it up so that one motor starts, 7 sec later, the second motor starts, idles and off you go.

Any questions, let me know.
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Old 07-30-2016, 09:20 PM
  #22  
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Leading edge "flap"?

The model doesn't have functional slats.
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:14 PM
  #23  
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Watch the leading edge flaps vary during different maneuvers. Almost every fighter being produced has them for additional lift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L0Cfui0oYY

My set up uses the flaps varying it for high alpha, sharp high speed turns and landing. All done by the throttle and pitch. Presently exploring takeoff(very difficult to hit the right deflections.)


All I was trying to get across is the DX 9/18 has a number of features to let you explore movable items. The fun of it is to explore where the results provide you with a plane that no one else has or automates the process.

I really take a dislike flipping switches to move items, but are you aware that you can trigger my above 3 conditions without moving a switch? Besides, it now allows you to simulate to scale what the fighter is doing.
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Old 07-31-2016, 03:56 PM
  #24  
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THE MODEL DOESN'T HAVE THE LEADING EDGE FLAPS

What the full scale has doesn't matter...

You claimed to have set something up on the model that just is not there.
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:10 AM
  #25  
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This model is my latest project with numerous modifications as listed bellow.
1- ESC upgrade from 80 to 130 Amps.
2- Batt. to ESC power leads upgrade to heavier gauge.
3- Capacitors fitted in-line.
4- Elimination of volt/regulator replaced with extra battery to
operate all functions.
5- Improvement to internal ducts by fine sanding, filling, sanding,
sealing and painting.
6- Rotor tip clearance minimized by adding alloy tape to internal
shrouds for better efficiency.
7- 13 mm. trialing edges made of soft timber added to all controls.
8- Weight added to LE of elevator stabs for ballance.
9- New precision fit elevator axis machined and fitted replacing the
incorrect stock size.
10- Heavier 4/40 push rods with more secure clevices fitted to Elev.
11- All control ball links secured with washers.
12- Battery bay enlargement.
13- Front fuselage joint section reinforced with ply formers.
14- Landing gear mounting reinforcement with ply formers.
15- All oleo springs replaced with stiffer heavy duty ones.
16- Nose gear support strut reinforced with CF and ply stopper.
17- Canopy hatch section fitted with ply former.
18- ESC hatch redesigned for easy removal and access.
19- Swing wings plastic bracket reinforced with alloy braces.
20- Wooden stoppers fitted to the swing wings to stop free play
21- Swing wing push rods reinforced.
22- Wing tip skids added.
23- Removal of extra unecessary weight in the cockpit/canopy.
24- Sealing off El. servo cavities inside ducts.
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