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S & B Me 262

Old 09-21-2010, 04:48 AM
  #1  
pattern14
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Default S & B Me 262

This is my second Kit from S & B Warbirds, an Australian manufacturer that specialises in crash survivable ww2 fighters. They are almost unheard of here on Wattflyer, although R/C Groups carry a few threads on them. Not having a local or international distributor probably has something to do with it, but I have found them to be brilliant to deal with, and very supportive. They sell directly from their website, or over the phone, so there is no middle man to up the price or complicate matters. The company has had a bad run of late, with severe storm damage disrupting their production for quite some time. They now have a new site up, with the previous models back in production, so it should be full steam ahead. My previous model was the Me 163 "Komet", a plane without equal, and the Me 262 looks to follow in it's footsteps. These are kits, and require some degree of building finesse, but the finished product is unique in aeromodelling. No point in going overboard into the background of the Me 262, as volumes have already been written about it, and it is a very popular subject for modelling; much more than other luftwaffe jets, and streets ahead of any allied ones. Made from poor quality materials by semi-skilled labour in forest factories, it achieved over 700 kills, produced 22 jet aces, and out- performed all other fighters. The 'Stormbirds" association built a number of these planes only recently, and have succesfully flown them. I hope to have this one up in the air by the end of next week. The kit itself contains two balsa sheeted foam core wings, an EPP fuse and nacelles, and a coreflute tail assembly. Decals, a canopy and some hardware complete it, along with a CD ROM with building instructions. The plane needs to be covered in coloured packing tape, applied with the help of 3m 77 adhesive spray. This method of covering adds immense strength, although it requires some patience and a steady hand to apply. I have seen some instances where people have given them glass fibre and other "Hardshell" finishes for the sake of cosmetics, but this totally defeats the purpose. These planes are designed to be crash survivable, the central ethos of the whole concept. Stick with the taped finish and keep flying This plane was originally designed to fly on speed 400 brushed motors when it it first came out some years back, but the advent of brushless and lipo have given it a terrific performance boost. I have several motor combo's to try, so I'll see what works best. keep you posted on the progress....cheers
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:17 AM
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kenchiroalpha
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Cool

Hi Michael
This should be an awesome build
Any thoughts as to the markings you will use?
I quite like this one
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/455/2/3/28
Take care
Hank
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:03 AM
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Hi Hank, checked out the colour scheme; looks good. The biggest problem I have with these taped- over -epp finishes is applying the paint. It is virtually impossible to get a totally wrinkle free finish, and after a few cartwheel landings you just learn to live with it.. It was almost a shame to cover the wings last night, as the balsa had beautiful swirling patterns and lines. Never had anything to do with balsa covered foam before, but the tape seemed to adhere to the surface very well with only a light spray of 3m77. The balsa is slightly absorbent, but the EPP is not, so I'll have a much smoother appearance on the wings. Tape also goes over coreflute quite well. Because of the bounce on impact/instead of break construction method used by S&B, the paint needs to adhere extremely well, and be flexible so as not to simply flake off. Being a hand launch/ belly lander, the rough paddocks where I fly take their toll of the underside. So for now, I'll totally cover it in basic green tape, with some abrasion resistant cloth back tape on the under side of the nacelles. Cleaning off the cow crap adds character as well Getting it to fly is one thing, but having it look reasonably authentic will be the real challenge. It is a very near scale model and I need to do it justice...........p.s, how is you eye healing up?
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:18 AM
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kenchiroalpha
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Talking

Originally Posted by pattern14 View Post
Hi Hank, checked out the colour scheme; looks good. The biggest problem I have with these taped- over -epp finishes is applying the paint. It is virtually impossible to get a totally wrinkle free finish, and after a few cartwheel landings you just learn to live with it.. It was almost a shame to cover the wings last night, as the balsa had beautiful swirling patterns and lines. Never had anything to do with balsa covered foam before, but the tape seemed to adhere to the surface very well with only a light spray of 3m77. The balsa is slightly absorbent, but the EPP is not, so I'll have a much smoother appearance on the wings. Tape also goes over coreflute quite well. Because of the bounce on impact/instead of break construction method used by S&B, the paint needs to adhere extremely well, and be flexible so as not to simply flake off. Being a hand lauch/ belly lander, the rough paddocks where I fly take their toll of the underside. So for now, I'll totally cover it in basic green tape, with some abrasion resistant cloth back tape on the under side of the nacelles. Cleaning off the cow crap adds character as well Getting it to fly is one thing, but having it look reasonably authentic will be the real challenge. It is a very near scale model and I need to do it justice...........p.s, how is you eye healing up?
Hi Michael
Thanks for asking
Im back to my normal mugly self, you woudnt even think i had been in a fight
I had a CC Lee 262 a while back
http://www.servoshop.co.uk/index.php...&area=Aircraft
Never could get good performance out of her and one day crashed her beyond repair
Might give this one a go one day
http://www.modelflight.com.au/het/het_me_262_edf.htm
Awaiting the rest of your build with great anticipation
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:22 PM
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Default first step...

Hi Hank; the HET Me 262 is a beauty. Expensive but a very good aircraft. It's pretty difficult to get a scale look with edf nacelles on this plane, but they do a good job. The CC Lee did not appear to be all that successful, and the GWS model falls somewhere in between. Extreme R/C here in Australia did a really decent version of one, but it seems that GWS are somewhat of an erratic company to deal with. Covered the wings today, and plan to do the nacelles and fuse tonight. The wings actually have a styrofoam core, which i found surprising. I expected an EPP onebut on further investigation it seems that this style of construction has proven very successful over the years, and the company has stayed with it. The wings have a hardwood leading edge ( don't know what sort), a fairly thin crossection and a very sharp trailing edge, which makes me think that speed is a central theme of this model. They give you the option of one central servo for both ailerons, or two wing mounted servo's. Given the weather and what the poor thing is in for, I'll go with the two wing mounted ones. There is no rudder on this plane, but I have already had a think about adding one. Still undecided on ESC placement, although putting them in the nacelles really appeals to me; the plans show them inside the fuse. Lots of things to think about at this stage, but I'm sure it will come together fairly well. More of an assembly thread than a build one, but these things have a way of changing
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Old 09-22-2010, 03:21 PM
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Can't wait to see it completed. There's full scale WWII ME-262 sitting 15 minutes from where I live. I often look it over a lot. It has the blue and grey-green sky cammo paint scheme.
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Old 09-23-2010, 11:53 AM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by Rattlecat View Post
Can't wait to see it completed. There's full scale WWII ME-262 sitting 15 minutes from where I live. I often look it over a lot. It has the blue and grey-green sky cammo paint scheme.
Hi Rattlecat; there are only a handfull of the original ones left, and you fortunate to be so close to one. Don't suppose You have any photo's of it do you. really be appreciated
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:59 PM
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Looking forward to this extreme build Michael. I am sure that I will need to copy one of your virtually indestructable planes before this winter is out. Our weather in the South West is not far removed from yours at times.
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Old 09-25-2010, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
Looking forward to this extreme build Michael. I am sure that I will need to copy one of your virtually indestructable planes before this winter is out. Our weather in the South West is not far removed from yours at times.
Hi Barry, one thing that is totally unknown about this one is how it will handle the wind. The AR234 seems to struggle in stong winds on take off and landing, but deals with it very well at high altitude have to wait and see. Managed to progress reasonably well in the last few days, and there are unforeseen tricky bits that needed a re-think. The nacelle internals needed some work to house the the esc's, and some mods to accept the brushless motors. I used the Arado 's idea of a flow through nacelle to cool everything, and the air intake will add to the scale appearence. Externally they will appear the same. Got most of the covering on, and it was an exercise in patience and steady hands. Cutting out the ailerons was something new, as I have never had to cut through balsa covered foam. It was quite delicate trying to do it, as you needed a razor sharp knife and hot wire cutter in one. The styro internals are quite crumbly. Took about two hours to do both ailerons, but the finished product turned out well. Will post some photo's this afternoon....cheers
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:47 AM
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This sounds very interesting Michael. I like the idea of blast cooled ESCs and your method of solving the "cutting out of the ailerons" issue. How are you going to attach the ailerons now they are cut away? Will you be inserting a sub spar into the edge of the aileron cut away to hinge onto?
Really looking forward to the rest of the build.
Barry
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Old 09-25-2010, 03:11 PM
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Default attaching ailerons

Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
This sounds very interesting Michael. I like the idea of blast cooled ESCs and your method of solving the "cutting out of the ailerons" issue. How are you going to attach the ailerons now they are cut away? Will you be inserting a sub spar into the edge of the aileron cut away to hinge onto?
Really looking forward to the rest of the build.
Barry
Hi Barry; will include some photo's of aileron atatchment tomorrow. I developed the idea from a combination of sources, plus my own. I don't use a sub spar, although that would be sensible in a balsa built up wing. Once the aileron is cut away, I bevel the leading edge of the aileron to about 40/45 degrees and then cover all exposed surfaces of both the aileron, and the wing it was cut away from, in packing tape; ( bi-directional tape for combat planes). The totally encased aileron is then laid upside down on top of the wing, and taped from underneath. I then tape the top of the control surface with the aileron at full "down" to avoid binding. Sounds convoluted, but works really well. Hope my photo's will be clear enough to support the written explanation. Never had an aileron/elevon ripped off in combat yet, even when broken in 3 places. The taped on method is light years ahead of du-bro and similar conventional hinges when it comes to toughness. Had to cut a wider slot in the rear fuse for the tail feathers too. The original one meant the fuse was uneccesarily stretched at the end point, and I have deviated from the plans by taping it in place rather than glueing it. Just a practical innovation, as I can change the angle of incidence with no trouble. Looked up "Black X", the Me 262 currently on display in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra. Seems this is the only surviving WW2 jet still with it's original paint job. Comes complete with bullet holes and a pine cone buried in one wing. Courtesy of the forest factory no doubt. There is a stand of enormous pines at the the end of the paddock where I fly and it is tempting to take it over for it,s finishing touches, just for a little authenticity. When I read about the conditions these jets were built and flown under, I am astounded they achieved anything at all. Any way, while it feels weird building from a kit, I am really enjoying making this one. Being THE Iconic WW2 jet fighter probably helps.
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:10 PM
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Using the tough tape to hinge makes real sense Michael. I'm looking forward to all the build info. Including the scale pine cone!!!
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:09 AM
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Amongst everything else, things are taking shape. The nacelles have been bored out and I've fitted the esc and leads. This in itself was about 5 hours worth, including all the soldering and measuring. I modified the engine mounts by elongating the mounting holes and countersinking the screw heads. Fiddly work, but ended up with a very centrally mounted motor. The ESC's are sitting just above the COG, which will help. The mounting plates are polycarbonate and interesting stuff to work with; practically indestructable as well. The servo's have been fitted, and was another very precise cutting job through the balsa and foam; Styrofoam is a total pain to work with, as the foam balls go every where Took my time and ended up with a very snug fit, completely flush with the underside of the wing. The instructions suggest screwing them into balsa blocks, but I prefer to fix them in with bi-directional tape directly over the top. Works brilliantly on my combat planes, and is very simple and practical to change a broken servo arm or such. I use GWS MG servo's as these metal geared ones are the the most resilient i have tried. I still have the original one I first bought about three years ago in one of my Combat fighters. The wings have a hole directly in line with the nacelles for the wires , but I enlarged the diameter with a length of brass tube so I can pass all the wire through, and cut ahole in the top of the wing along the join. It is wide enough to pull the deans connector through if I need to change a component without pulling the whole thing apart. Anyway, enough talking, included some pic's this time. Hope to join the wing halves together tonight, and test run the motors tomorrow......
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Old 09-28-2010, 03:36 PM
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Looking good Michael, that's some progress that you have made.
I find the build technique so different to the one that I use. You really have sorted out the survivability issues which exist down there.
I soldered the links to the aileron servos in the Komet wing bays but I like your tube idea which you can pull the servo plug though much better. I'll have to try that on my next build. Thanks.
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
Looking good Michael, that's some progress that you have made.
I find the build technique so different to the one that I use. You really have sorted out the survivability issues which exist down there.
I soldered the links to the aileron servos in the Komet wing bays but I like your tube idea which you can pull the servo plug though much better. I'll have to try that on my next build. Thanks.
Just don't inhale any of those foam beads when you bore out the tunnel. This build technique differs in some aspects to my usual one as well, but I have incorporated some combat proven mods of my own. After not having done a kit since the Komet, it feels very strange. Still, I am really liking putting this one together, although I would not recommend it to anyone who has not done a few foam/composite/balsa planes before. It would be really easy to make a hash of it in the the more intricate areas of construction. Got the wings assembled for the final join (after much checking and double checking), and test ran all the servo's and radio gear. Everything is working as it should.. Truly grateful for the time spent on the Arado in setting up the twin pusher motors, as it takes so much trial and error out of it. Even something as simple as tightening up the prop adaptor needed a creative approach. Soldered up the two into one battery leads (another Arado clone) and the two into one (with one side signal wire disconnected) Esc leads. It is virtually an Identical set up. Hope to have both nacelles counter rotating this evening, and attached to the one piece wing. The motors took some finding, but I settled on middle of the road R/C echo 1500kv with 7x5 apc's. They were small enough to allow the cooling air to flow around them, and powerfull enough for the job. I am building this one as light as possible, so power to weight ratio should be fine. Hopefully some more pic's tonight, cheers
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:46 PM
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Thumbs up

Hi Michael
Outstanding
Your doing a topnotch job
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:29 AM
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Default motors sorted

Originally Posted by kenchiroalpha View Post
Hi Michael
Outstanding
Your doing a topnotch job
Take care dear friend
Yours Hank
Thanks for the encouragement Frank Got the motors sorted out last night, and hope to have the nacelles attached to the wings today. As mentioned before, the hit and miss approach with my Arado Ar234 has really made this straight forward. Programme each ESC individually, enable the brake and set each value identically, as well as set the throttle range . I made sure each set of electrical cables etc are identical length as well. I then use a "Y" connector to the rx, but included a very short connector with the white wire cut and sealed, for the port engine. Saves cutting the wire on one ESC. Both motors start at the same time, and stop and brake identically. Pretty important when landing with no undercarriage The only hiccough so far is the elevator servo placement. I don't like the standard set up at all, so I am tossing up a few ideas on placement. Apart from that, it should be flying by the weekend...more soon, cheers
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:58 AM
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Default servo update

just an addit..... ending up putting the elevator servo just forward and to the port side of the original instructional suggestion. Trouble was the "Tare away" wing mount which is fixed to the fuse below the centre section of the wing Trailing edge. Supposed to come away from the fuse in the case of a major crash to save damage to both fuse and wing. This ingenious device would have taken the servo with it , as the pushrod ran over the base. Had to bore out the original pushrod tube, put in a bigger one, and then weld two pushrods together to get the required length. Very fiddly process; took me most of the morning, and welding two pushrods with an arc welder was a lesson in delicateness. Tested it all, and it seems to work, so on with it............
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:29 AM
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Wow Michael, welded push rods! Now that is really high tech compared to my two kebab sticks epoxied into a short plastic tube joiner approach. I'm going to go for the dedicated dual ESC to receiver "Y" lead approach and just cut the power lead on one side of the "Y". I figure that way the motor/ESCs can still be used in single motor set ups as well.
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Old 09-30-2010, 01:10 PM
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Default kebab sticks?

Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
Wow Michael, welded push rods! Now that is really high tech compared to my two kebab sticks epoxied into a short plastic tube joiner approach. I'm going to go for the dedicated dual ESC to receiver "Y" lead approach and just cut the power lead on one side of the "Y". I figure that way the motor/ESCs can still be used in single motor set ups as well.
Trying to visualise two kebab sticks epoxied for pushrods I've only ever seen them with prawns or buffalo meat on them
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Old 09-30-2010, 02:55 PM
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The ones I bought work really well as they are very light and yet offer high resistance to bending when under compression. Normally they are long enough alone but I did have to join two to get the length needed on one glow to electric conversion.
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Old 09-30-2010, 10:58 PM
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Default nearly there

Originally Posted by baz49exe View Post
The ones I bought work really well as they are very light and yet offer high resistance to bending when under compression. Normally they are long enough alone but I did have to join two to get the length needed on one glow to electric conversion.
No doubting your resourcefulness Barry I expect to see a Wellington made from plastic bottles and Kebab sticks now As for the Me 262..... joined the wings with araldite, something I never use normally. Ugh; what messy stuff, but it seemed to stick the two halves quite well. Pulled the tangle of wires through the wings with an old pushrod taped to the ends, and semi attached the nacelles .Put the aileron servo's in, attached the pushrods and horns and aligned everything. Tried to attach the "Tare-away " wing bolt but decided to go with a taped wing to fuse method instead. Should have it together by this afternoon, all going well.........
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Old 10-02-2010, 02:39 AM
  #23  
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Default build postscript

She's ready to fly Put everything together yesterday afternoon, and every thing seems to work fine. My 11 y.o son said " it looks like a real Me 262" Looking back over the last week or so , I deviated from the instuctions about a dozen times, and there were some areas of assembly that I found obscure. The "Tare-away" wing mount is probably the major point of deviation- I just did not like nor trust it, and it was difficult to get it to line up how it was supposed to. The slots for the tailfeathers were off noticeably, and took some time to line up satisfactorily ( shimming, re-cutting, etc) and the angles of the nacelles and leading edge did not match either. No big deal; I'll add some balsa fillets to fix the gap. Still not 100% happy with the elevator servo set up, but nothing I can't improve on. The canopy needed some trimming to sit correctly as well. If it had been a scratchbuild, none of these things would rate a mention. I have to point out that Geoff at S&B Models did tell me that it was an "off-line" kit due to their production facilities being destroyed in a storm, and there would be some flaws in it. I really appreciate the fact that he even went to the trouble to make for me- great service in anyones book So is the kit worth $275.00 plus postage? You then have to buy all the electronics, radio gear, battery, servo's etc, plus the 3m super 77 spray and other finishing materials ( rolls of tape come supplied) This would not be a first plane for anyone, so soldering gear, connectors, charger etc would probably already been on hand. Even so, It still would add up to a $500.00 plane, ready to fly. I have seen alpha and pz warbirds totally destroyed in crashes that hardly wrinkle the S&B ones. They are incredibly tough and probably the most durable planes around. My Son's" Komet" is now 3 years old, crashed and rammed in combat over 50 times, and still flies like the day we maidened it. So the initial high price has paid for itself countless time. But, they are built to fly, not just to crash, and how it flies is the ultimate proof. Still, I am nervous about the maiden on this one.......
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Old 10-02-2010, 05:28 AM
  #24  
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Default forest factory

forgot to add this photo, complete minus markings and camo, surrounded by pine cones.....all it needs is an autobahn to fly from........
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:09 PM
  #25  
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Hey Michael, that is a sharp-looking ME-262. Get out there and plow through the wind to join the rest of the Tasmanian Luftwaffe!
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