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Old 01-18-2011, 08:15 PM   #1
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Default Quick full throttle and motor screeches and stops

I have a sk4250 650 KV and a turnigy sentry esc 60amp ubec. This set up is in two planes and both act the same. I use a 4 cell lipo 20c and every thing works fine.
When I use a 5 cell lipo turnigy 30-40 c and start prop RPM's slow it works fine. From a start and I give it full throttle it immediately screeches and the prop won't run and I immediately shut it down. When flying and there is some throttle say 40 percent and I give it full throttle it will screech and the prop will stop and I immediately pull the throttle back and then ease it ahead the motor will run normal. What is causing this with the 5 cell battery? Some bench stats at full throttle:

4 cell lipo 20C 5 cell lipo 30 to 40C
Amps. 40 47
Watts 540 840
RPMs 7400 8300
Prop 12X12 12X12 electric

I have two Trunigy ESC program cards and I can't get either one to work per directions.

Please head me in the right direction.

Ron
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:30 PM   #2
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What is your timing set at?
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:33 PM   #3
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how odd, I had the exact same issue yesterday running up my new Shoestring conversion for the first time!

Timing is the answer, or at least it was for me anyway...

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Old 01-19-2011, 12:06 AM   #4
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Low timing might be the answer... then again it might not... you'll just have to try both ends of the spectrum... maybe a smaller prop might help too.

Cheers, Phil
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:43 AM   #5
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A quick warning.

When your motor stops spinning or wont spin up - for ANY REASON - ALWAYS always always - go to zero throttle immediately.

Do NOT keep holding the throttle open hoping it will start and do NOT keep trying to start the motor over and over again.

You will burn up the motor and/or the esc if you do - and then it will never start

The problem is that when ever a motor ISNT turning at speed and you are giving it throttle - it will be drawing HUGE HUGE amps. Far far beyond what it will normally pull at full throttle.

So, if that motor wont start - find out why and fix it.

If you keep pushing the throttle stick forward you will kill your controller and possibly the motor permanently.

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Old 01-19-2011, 03:54 AM   #6
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I agree, the timming might be off, also check your motor for loose magnets, the SK series turnigy motors are known for the magnets coming loose, that why i use the gold color Turnigy motors if the magnets are loose, they can be reglued with high temp epoxy, also check your connections from the esc to motor, they could be loose, and check your battery connection at the esc, you could have a dirty or loose connection there, sometimes the solder connection is bad on the esc to motor, sometimes you have to resolder them, as they could have a bad cold solder, make sure that your trim on your throttle is all the way off before trying to set the timing on the ESC, Hope that helps, Chellie

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Old 01-20-2011, 05:34 AM   #7
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First I have always shut the throttle down imediately an hearing the screech. On the bench and giving full throttle and the screech came on the amps were only 19. As orginally stated I have two planes set up the same and they react the same. It is my opinion at this point it is the timming.

I was luckey yesterrday to be directed to a fellow that is heavy into Turnigy equipment and has programed Turnigy ESC's with a turnigy programing card. In his opinion timming being the main issue. We tried three turnigy esc programing cards and none would work per directions, so we could not determine the timming or make any changes. Does anyone know what could be going on? Could both of these esc have a problem and still work on 4 cells?

Is there an esc that will set the timming to match the number of battery cells automatically?
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by RTA View Post
First I have always shut the throttle down imediately an hearing the screech. On the bench and giving full throttle and the screech came on the amps were only 19. As orginally stated I have two planes set up the same and they react the same. It is my opinion at this point it is the timming.

I was luckey yesterrday to be directed to a fellow that is heavy into Turnigy equipment and has programed Turnigy ESC's with a turnigy programing card. In his opinion timming being the main issue. We tried three turnigy esc programing cards and none would work per directions, so we could not determine the timming or make any changes. Does anyone know what could be going on? Could both of these esc have a problem and still work on 4 cells?

Is there an esc that will set the timming to match the number of battery cells automatically?
Check out the Castle Creations line such as their Phoenix series. I've got 7 or 8 of them, and have had good luck with all of them. (One did quit in flight two years ago, sent it in, they replaced the microcontroller, and charged me $50, that on a $130 ESC. Still using that one.) Never had a screech, scratch, or any other weird noises from any motor connected to a CC ESC, and thats after four years of flying with the CC ESC's.

My CC ESC's are just connected to my various Hacker motors, no adjustments are mandatory, they just work fine. They are used on my Hacker motors ranging from A30, A40, A50, and now an A60-16M motor.

The LVC (Low Voltage Cutout) function has been set to about 2.7 volts per cell for my A123 batteries, and the brake function has been turned off. Everything else is default settings.

It's good you are apparently using a wattmeter, or ammeter to check current pulled by your setup. Might give you enough time to kill power if something doesn't sound right.
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:13 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by RTA View Post
First I have always shut the throttle down imediately an hearing the screech. On the bench and giving full throttle and the screech came on the amps were only 19. As orginally stated I have two planes set up the same and they react the same. It is my opinion at this point it is the timming.

I was luckey yesterrday to be directed to a fellow that is heavy into Turnigy equipment and has programed Turnigy ESC's with a turnigy programing card. In his opinion timming being the main issue. We tried three turnigy esc programing cards and none would work per directions, so we could not determine the timming or make any changes. Does anyone know what could be going on? Could both of these esc have a problem and still work on 4 cells?

Is there an esc that will set the timming to match the number of battery cells automatically?
I have never heard of anyone having a problem programing a turnigy ESC untill now remove the battery balance plug, before programing, if that does not work, try to program the ESC on 3 Cells, also try to Manual program the ESC with the transmitter sticks, the programing card you are using may be a older version, hope that helps, Chellie

comment from video :

the programming card your using is for the older plush esc's you'll have to program it with the radio

Purepain76 5 months ago







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kg7M...eature=related

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Old 01-21-2011, 06:15 AM   #10
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I want to thank everyone for there comments as each one got me thinking in another direction.
Chellie sent videos that really helped as the programing card was just like mine and was lite up just the same, letting me know others have had the same problems. I didn't find the reason why the program card would not work. I just finished putting my crashed T-28 together and the motor screeched ond quite but would run on a soft throttle. I put the programing card on the T-28 with a turnigy 40 amp ESC and it would not work. All these planes have been nosed in a number of times with the result causing damage to the ESC it appears.

From now on after a crash I will check the ESC with the programing card and if it won,t work I will replace the ESC because in time you will have a problem.

Thamks again,

Ron
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:46 PM   #11
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Disreguard the above post as it is mostly wrong. I made the assumption and after checking 4 esc after a number of crashes on each, that the esc were damaged as 3 of the esc allowed screeching. One 40 amp turnigy allowed screeching after a crash and never did before following numerous crashes, which was a super tiger ,10 on a 3 cell battery.

I have a white face Turnigy esc programing card as a fellow I know has and we tried his. Neither one worked. All the lights come on even the blue one and you can not select an action. I just tried my card on a new Turnigy 60 amp esc just out of the package and never used and it reacts the same.

Please I need some help or tell me where to go.

Thanks Ron
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:06 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by RTA View Post
Disreguard the above post as it is mostly wrong. I made the assumption and after checking 4 esc after a number of crashes on each, that the esc were damaged as 3 of the esc allowed screeching. One 40 amp turnigy allowed screeching after a crash and never did before following numerous crashes, which was a super tiger ,10 on a 3 cell battery.

I have a white face Turnigy esc programing card as a fellow I know has and we tried his. Neither one worked. All the lights come on even the blue one and you can not select an action. I just tried my card on a new Turnigy 60 amp esc just out of the package and never used and it reacts the same.

Please I need some help or tell me where to go.

Thanks Ron
If you have the Turnigy SENTRY 60 amp esc, from what I have read, you will need to program the ESC with the Transmitter Throttle stick and not with the card, forget using the Card, Hope that helps, Chellie


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Old 01-23-2011, 05:32 AM   #13
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Default transmitter throttle stick programing

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/f...rogramming.pdf


the turnigy esc and the hobbywing esc are the same ESC.

I may be getting Older, But I Refuse to grow Up I am Having to much Fun to Grow Up LOL
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:57 AM   #14
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I would like to thank Chellie for getting me on the right track as I am fairly new at this hobby in retirement.

My original concern was a screeching motor on a 5 cell battery. It was corrected by changing the timming. Thanks all.

My frustration in programing the esc was finding out that a number of programing cards are apparently defective. How many out there have seen this? They would be a handy programing card but I wonder how many you would have to buy to get a good one.
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:24 AM   #15
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Keep in mind that the products you are asking about are the cheapest ones on the market.

They are the cheapest for several reasons. One of them is that Quality Control is the very last thing on their minds.

I have personally seen examples where two esc's were labeled exactly the same way and sold as the exact same esc, but to look at them it was obvious they were two very different units.

In other words, you are buying from people who do not care if they tell the truth about the products they sell and who do not care if they work or dont work.

That doesnt seem to stop most folks from buying them and recommending them so why should the sellers change?

Your only choices are to keep buying more of the cheep ones until you get units that work or switch to a name brand esc that comes with customer service, QC and a warranty.

I think I need a signature.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:27 PM   #16
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The Turnigy ESC , while not being the cheapest on the market, are a very good Value, This is the first time that I have heard of some of the ESC programing Cards being Defective, You Know, If it was not for the inexpensive Motors and ESC, I could not afford to be in this Hobby, The Turnigy ESC and Motors have served me Well, I Just Wish that the USA RC E POWER MFG would get their heads out of their Behinds and bring their cost down to where the rest of us poor people could afford their Products, but i think they may be to proud to do that, so they would rather just go under, Its a shame too, because we have the Tech. to have great products at a reasonable price here in the US, I would rather Buy products made in the USA, But not for a Arm and a Leg, Sooo if there are any Rc E Power MFG reading this, Reduce prices on your Products, or YOU, The USA MFG. are chasing people away to buy from over seas,

Example look at what a NEU motor cost and compair that to the e-flite or turnigy motors cost, same amount of steel, magnets & wire used, at about 10 times the cost Perfect example, US Mfg, you are hurting yourself, dont blame the people who dont want to pay up to ten Times more for a Motor or ESC, Warranty or not,

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Old 01-24-2011, 07:12 PM   #17
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Now come on Chellie, please dont get mad at me - but surely you dont actually believe that?

Nue motors dont use the same steel or the same magnets or the same wire or the same bearings or the same anything the cheap motors do.

Hi quality materials that are precision made cost a LOT more than cheap junk.

The difference in performance levels between a Neu motor and a similar Turnigy is ridiculous. The difference in quality and efficiency is huge.

Much of that difference in cost is in the materials used in the construction - better bearings, better steal, better wire, better magnets, better shafts, better manufacturing techniques.

Then lets look at labor costs.

Are YOU wiling to work for what the average Chinese worker gets paid Chellie? You would not be even close to minimum wage. Most kids with paper routes make far more income and no where near what a skilled machinest at Neu gets paid.

Are YOU willing to work in the same working conditions and the same hours?

Are YOU willing to work with NO health care benefits? No Social Security?

How about no Workmans Comp insurance if you are hurt on the job?

Lets not forget no unions and no lawyers to sue for you if your boss decides to fire you for saying no when you dont want to provide "additional services" out side your normal work duties.

Then lets add in additional services. Neu has to pay people to answer the phone or e-mails when YOU have a question. They also have to repair motors when YOU over load them or break them.

In other words they have to provide YOU with customer service and warranty.

That also cost money.

Come on Chellie. You know your comments are wishful thinking at best

There is no way Neu - or any other quality mfg - can build and sell a motor or an esc or a plane or anything - as cheaply as the Chinese can - even if he was willing to build total junk.

He certainly cant build some of the best motors on the planet for those prices.

I think I need a signature.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:32 AM   #18
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I can never get Made at you Larry Your a Sweet Heart But i do Know that Our US Mfg can Do Better, to get cost down, and Stay Competitive, I know that we earn better Wages, I also know that NEU motors are Hand made, do they have to be hand made, can a Machine do more of the work and bring cost down steel is steel no difference there, copper wire may be better heat resistant, but how much more would that cost, yes good magnets cost more, buy in bulk, and there is a big savings, cost can be brought down, Look at the Castle Creation Berg 72 Mhz receivers, Castle Creation sells them as reasonable as the China Stuff, I buy US Made Receivers from Castle Creation, they have a great Product, they can do the same with there ESC and Motors to if they Tried Real Hard, yes they might have to move out of the high rent district to save on rent and cost, that can be passed along, they can sublet work out, so they dont have to pay SS, workers comp, Disability insurance, etc and Save cost, and pass that savings on, lots of ways to cut mfg cost and yet keep the Quality up, Being Creative is What Made this Country Great, in bad times the USA shines with Creative ways of doing things, Mfg have to Change with the times or be left out, do more with less, The Germans Before WWII demonstrated that very well, There Economy was the Envy of the world, they dug them selfs out of a very very bad Situation after WWI, that same thing can be done here as well, Change is needed, the same old way of doing things is just not going to work any longer, Take care and Have fun, Chellie

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Old 07-20-2011, 05:30 AM   #19
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I'm running a similiar set-up on an Extra 300.

42 50 700(standard gold motor) with a 14 x 10 on 5s Turnigy 80 Plush This combo is producing about 1200+ watts from a motor thats rated for 700 !

You will require high timing. Been throught this before with this motor. Have over 50+ flights on this motor combo and about 125+ flights on another plane with awsome power and run time. 8-9 min of mixed IMAC , Pattern. Batteries are sitting at 3.70v/cell.

And these parts are not the cheapest parts available on the market and have seen 4 Scorpion motors and numerious other fail at my field. Don't get caught in the hype.

i Have a friend who is a Pattern flyer ranked in the top 10 in the world and he has run the "cheap stuff" in some of his smaller 50 sized 3D planes. Look at DLE engines compared to DA.

DA's getting their but kicked.

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Old 07-20-2011, 06:28 AM   #20
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*sigh*

yes, cheep is always better. You never get your moneys worth when you by quality stuff. Quality, honesty, performance, customer service are all worthless.

*sigh*

Didnt you just almost loose your 50cc yak due to a Turnigy esc catching fire in flight?

Im sure it had nothing to do with a quality issue. Im also sure the fact that the failure rate for the cheep stuff is many many times higher than quality equipment is just a coincidence. Random chance. Dont worry about it.

I think I need a signature.
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Old 07-20-2011, 06:43 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
*sigh*

yes, cheep is always better. You never get your moneys worth when you by quality stuff. Quality, honesty, performance, customer service are all worthless.

*sigh*

Didnt you just almost loose your 50cc yak due to a Turnigy esc catching fire in flight?

Im sure it had nothing to do with a quality issue. Im also sure the fact that the failure rate for the cheep stuff is many many times higher than quality equipment is just a coincidence. Random chance. Dont worry about it.
I've been flying those expensive Hacker motors for four years now. Out of seven Hackers, only had one (A40-10L) that required repair. It tried to plow the ground after an aileron came off in flight on one of my models. It still ran OK, but the propeller wobbled due to a bent shaft. Cost about $20 to fix it, new shaft, new bearings.

Also have six Castle Creations ESC's. One did quit three years ago during flight when the microcontroller on the unit quit. Cost $40 to fix an ESC worth well over $100. All that during four flying seasons, and somewhere around 1000 flights total, with motors running about a Kilowatt or more.

And all of these Hacker motors, and CC ESC's are being run right at their maximum power and current ratings.

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Old 07-20-2011, 06:57 AM   #22
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I'm not going to say that the cheep stuff is the best out there , but I have seen some Castles ESC's go up in smoke, not to mention two scorpion F3A motors go defective and another spin the windings in the motor.

Lets be fair in saying that all products have a failure rate , specially when your trying to maximize and push them to the limits. I just don't see why I should pay 3-4 times the price for a similair product.
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:32 AM   #23
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I can agree with everything you said except the last sentence.

You most definitely are NOT getting a similar product.

Hi quality motors, esc's and batteries weigh less, are more efficient, last longer and perform better. They are actually made to standards where as most of the stuff from Hoby City is a "hope I get one that works" kind of thing.

On top of that, you actually get customer service, warranty and QC of the products.

When you read the specs on name brand equipment, you can be sure they are honest numbers.

Read the specs on Hobby City parts and you are lucky if they have any vague relation to the truth.

If you buy two motors from hacker, you can be sure they both weight the same and have the same Io and the same kV.

If you buy two matching esc's you can count on those two motors performing very very close to each other.

Buy two "identical" esc's from Hoby City and you may well get two completely different esc's. Buy two motors and the same thing. one may have a kV of 1000 and the next one 1200 or 1500 or god knows what.

I have seen that myself many times.

If you have an issue with a Castle esc or a Scorpion motor or a Hyperion battery - they fix it.

Have an issue with a Hobby City part and you throw it away.

Take any model you want and power it with your choice of Hoby City parts. I can build the same model and it will be significantly lighter, fly longer and have more power AND be far far more reliable.

Nothing similar anywhere in there that I can see.

Sorry for jumping down your throat.

I just get hot under the collar when people put down hi quality goods and imply that they are being "cheated" or over charged.

Thats just hog wash.

I think I need a signature.
Larry
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Old 07-20-2011, 07:36 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by flyer88 View Post
Lets be fair in saying that all products have a failure rate , specially when your trying to maximize and push them to the limits. I just don't see why I should pay 3-4 times the price for a similair product.
I can accept that.

But the "Good quality" stuff uses reasonable maximum power specifications on their equipment, where some of the "Other stuffs" maximum power specifications are specified by the sales dep't, not the Engineering dep't.

IMHO, any motor with a power specification of much over 100 watts per ounce of motor weight might be pushing it a little. One of my models had a warning on it to never touch their recommended motor after a flight due to the risk of burning your fingers. That motor was being run at some 175 watts per ounce of motor weight per factory recommendations.

www.motocalc.com suggested that motor's windings would hit over 400 degrees F.

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Old 07-20-2011, 04:51 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
If you buy two motors from hacker, you can be sure they both weight the same and have the same Io and the same kV.
H'mm
I bought a Hacker A50-12S motor in 2007.
Bought another Hacker A50-12S motor in 2010.

They are identical in RPM, measured DC resistance, KV, no load current, weight, everything.

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