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FMS & GWS Slow Stick Issue

Old 07-01-2008, 08:43 PM
  #1  
jakc
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Default FMS & GWS Slow Stick Issue

Im building my first plane (GWS SS) and would like to get myself a little bit more familiar with the concept within FMS.

This thread is not to discuss the good/bad things about simulators versus getting help from a trainer at a club.

I have XP.
I have downloaded FMS - v2, beta 7 (recommended version)
I have downloaded several Slow Stick models and none appear to work.
The stock models that come bundled with FMS work fine.
I dont want a SS model with ailerons, just rudder/elevator.

Why is this not working for me?
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:53 PM
  #2  
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Moved to Flight Simulators Forum
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:59 PM
  #3  
ggunners
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You will want to install FMS 2 alpha 8.5. It is the most current version and will fly both types of FMS models for version 2.7 and 2.8.

Version 2.7 used to be recommended but the web site has not been updated in years.

Version 2.8 has much improved ground handling, multiple collision points, wind speed, gust and direction and a much larger .par file for fine tuning flight.

You can find a SlowStick style plane on my website called FKstick8.zip.

-- ggunners

P.S. One other thought. FMS 2.8 has some issues with WinXP and WinVista computers that do not have physical serial ports. In addition you need a DirectX .dll for WinVista. Use the search feature on the FMS Forum for details.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:00 PM
  #4  
clockworks
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When you say that the new models don't work, what exactly is happening?
Have you unzipped the files and copied them to the correct directory?
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:58 PM
  #5  
jakc
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ok installed 8.5 alpha

downloaded FKstick8.zip and extracted to model folder.

It works now but the rudder controls mapped out to certain keys dont work with the model. However ailerons do. I want rudder controls on the model.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:20 AM
  #6  
smokejohnson
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I know you can make rudder ch 1 and it will work off of the right stick. The ailerons would then work on ch 4 on the left stick. Not sure how to enable it all together.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:41 AM
  #7  
jakc
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thanks for all the advice but still no joy.
I am just using keyboard controls for now and am not going to purchase an additional lead until I am sure it actually works with the keyboard.

Any other suggestions welcome.

Im sure its something to do with different versions being incompatible with models created for diff versions.
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:03 PM
  #8  
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jakc, a lot of rc modelers map the primary turning control to the right stick in a mode 2 transmitter when the model has 3 channels. I do this with all my models. So whether R/E/T or A/E/T, turning is on the right stick.

To fix this in an FMS model, you edit the .par file with Windows NotePad or a .par editor and change the channel for the rudder from channel 3 to channel 1.

//WING4 <FIN>

Before:
3 //channel
After:
1 //channel

-- ggunners
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:03 PM
  #9  
jakc
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Nope, tried fiddling the par file.

It appears that both SS models I have have no rudder controls but ailerons.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:58 AM
  #10  
jakc
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That last post I made was not too positive - apologies, FMS is annoying me.

My Slow Stick is pretty much ready to fly but I dont feel confident enough yet. Other than advising me to get a trainer, id like to connect my Spektrum DX6i into FMS and get a bit more familiar with the radio.

1. What cable do I need to purchase (and links would be great)?

2. Can someone help me get a SS working in FMS - still having this problem with the models I get having ailerons as opposed to rudder controls.


Really appreciate any help.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:59 PM
  #11  
smokejohnson
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I just downloaded the fkstick8 from gunners site and it works fine. I don't think it has ailerons...at least I can't get em to work. At first I went ahead and put rudder as ch 1 and ailerons on ch 4. I had nothing on the right stick and rudder on the left. So I swapped it back, rudder ch 4 and ailerons ch 1, and it works the way it should.

I can see how you would think you have no rudder by the labeling of the channels but I bet you have it set up right. The control on the model that you are getting from what is labeled ailerons is in fact reacting like a rudder.

At least mine is.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:20 PM
  #12  
jakc
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so to confirm.
You have ok 8.5 alpha FMS?
FKstick8.zip from Gunners site?

When I downloaded this, I had to use the keyboard controls that were mapped for ailerons to steer the plane.

Again, I dont know much about planes as im yet to fly my first one, but if the rudder controls were mapped to the ailerons then surely when pulling to the left, the wings should NOT tip over, but the back end should push out, turning the plane left. My controls, the wings appear to tip over (i.e. alerons).

Really want to get this sorted. Perhaps someone who has FMS and a working version of SS, can tell me their FMS version and send me their model?
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:43 PM
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I am using FMS 8.5. I gotta head for work right now but I think you are set up right you're just confused on how the plane should react. Does the plane turn when rolling on the ground?
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:56 PM
  #14  
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Yea I am confused. Cos for instance, if I use the stock Slo-V, it reacts to rudder controls how id expect it too, where as the the SS rolls - Ill double check this, later this evening and begin moaning again.

Just seen that you can connect your DX6i to FMS via your PC mic port?!! Sure this is probably trickier than set-up with a purpose built cable, but if it means I can get it up and running without buying a new cable (sure ive got a mic to mic cable somewhere) Anyone done this - how?
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:03 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by jakc View Post
Yea I am confused. Cos for instance, if I use the stock Slo-V, it reacts to rudder controls how id expect it too, where as the the SS rolls - Ill double check this, later this evening and begin moaning again.
Airplanes with Rudder, Elevator and Throttle (R/E/T) with significant wing dihedral or polyhedral will act somewhat like ailerons for turning because if they didn't you would not be able to turn. The dihedral is the key, without it, turning would not happen on an R/E/T airplane.

Properly modeled in a left turn you should see a yaw to the left followed by a roll to the left where as an aileron airplane will just roll left with a small amount of adverse (opposite direction) yaw.

-- ggunners
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:21 PM
  #16  
jakc
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Mr Gunners himself ?
So can u confirm that I should be ok downloading ur FKStick8 model from ur site and running with 8.5?

FMS keyboard controls for rudder do not affect this model. However FMS aileron keyboard controls do. I assume that the model has been incorrectly mapped for this version of FMS, and the aleron controls are in fact the rudder controls.

I will do some flying later and report back. Keep up the good work MrG, ur collection of models looks spectacular.


On another note, anyone played around with their radios and SmartPropoPlus?
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:53 PM
  #17  
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I managed to get SmartProPlus working with FMS and my DX6i.

Still having issues with the SS, so is the slo-v7 a good enough equivalent to learn with or does it fly a lot different to the SS?

Also, im able to get my DX6i fine as rudder/elevator, but thrust it fails to reach the top bottom ends when I configure it (as a joystick).

Not sure if this is something to do with filters with SPP or channel mixing on my DX6i - any tips on this would be great. Think ill spend next hour or so, playing around with slo_v7
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:22 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by jakc View Post
So can u confirm that I should be ok downloading ur FKStick8 model from ur site and running with 8.5?
The FKStick8 is set up for rudder control on the right stick mode 2 controller.

If you want the rudder to be on the left stick, then make the small change to the .par file for Wing4 <FIN> from channel 3 to channel 1. There are no ailerons in the .par file which would normally be on WING1 and WING2.

//WING4 <FIN>

Before:
3 //channel
After:
1 //channel

There's another better 3D rendering of the SlowStick on rc-sim.de.

-- ggunners
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:51 PM
  #19  
smokejohnson
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Watt ggunners says supports watt I found this morning. The rudder was already active on the right stick when I started the program. I could move it to the left stick but there were no aileron controls to be found.

FWIW I have never flown a SS but I did wear out a Yard Stik. It rolled very similar to the fkstick8 on the sim. As was explained earlier you need it to drop a wing to turn. I would definitely recommend getting used to the fkstick8 on the sim before you try to maiden your SS. Good luck
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Old 07-08-2008, 07:45 PM
  #20  
jakc
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I downloaded the one from the german site and again, wrong channel. Comparing the .par file to the slov7 stock model, they are completely different formats.


So back to the FKStick8:
//WING4 <fin>
-0.4 0 -0.06 //—ƒˆÊ’uX,Y,Z [m]
1 0 0 //Ex X,Y,Z
0 0 -1 //Ey X,Y,Z
2 //polar number
0.18 //span [m]
4 //number of elements
All SS models also seem to be weaving off to the left on take off where as the stock models are fine (no wind either).
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:28 PM
  #21  
ggunners
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The slov7 is an FMS 2.7 .par file. Use the slov8 to compare to the FKStick8.

I have noticed many of the lighter weight models in FMS have a tendency to track to the left. Some of this is related to prop torque that is modeled into FMS 2.8. The left turning tendency seems more pronounced with full throttle.

First just add in some down and right thrust to the MOTOR with a .par editor. I use Mr. Masuoka's version paredit.exe and like it a lot.

Another way to model out turning issues is to add a second MOTOR turning the opposite direction. A bit of overkill but it works well on many models.

One other option is to try adding a small angle to the rudder. In this case I added less than one degree of negative angle to compensate.

-0.9 //AttackAngle [deg]

As you may already know there are positive angles of attack for the main wings and usually a small negative angle of attack for the elevator which add up to the angle of incidence for the wings.

FMS 2.8 is very much like building a real model. Almost everything is exposed in the quite expansive .par file.

-- ggunners
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:13 PM
  #22  
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Just to go back a few to the original issue, once you have a cable to your transmitter you'll be able to re-map the rudder to whichever stick you prefer, usually the right stick as this is the standard for either 3 or 4 channel steering once you move up to aelerons. I learned to fly my slow stick this way in FMS and I love this model of the plane. Ggunners - thanks for a great bit of work here! Since I went to LiPo / Brushless with a 3 cell pack I updated the .par file to get more power to match my setup and it's working great.

Hope this helps
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