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United Hobbies EDF Ducted Fan Unit 7 Blade 5 inch 127mm

Old 10-30-2008, 02:38 AM
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bdelmo
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Default United Hobbies EDF Ducted Fan Unit 7 Blade 5 inch 127mm

Has anyone installed the United Hobbies EDF Ducted Fan Unit 7 Blade 5 inch 127mm, along with United Hobbies - KB45-08XL 1600kv Brushless Inrunner (or equivalent), and TURNIGY Sentilon100A HV 2-12S Speed Controller (or CC 110 HV)?

Did you get the calculated (see http://www.s4a.ch/eflight/fancalc_e.htm) 7-9 lbs of thrust, substituting a DS-75 and Neu Motor 1515 1.5Y for UH EDF 5 inch and UH1600kv Brushless Inrunner, using 2 x 6S 3700 Lipo's?
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:19 AM
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Larry3215
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Im not quite sure what you're asking.

If you want to know if that Hobby City fan/motor/esc combo is as good as the DS75/Neu/Castle combo then no. Its not even vaguely close.

All the test reports I have seen - other than the ones ON the Hobby City web site - show that those cheep fans are pretty in-efficient and very much amp hogs.

Do not even try to run those controllers on 12S. They wont even survive on 10S at anywhere near the max ratings. The motors are so-so at best and wont survive long when pushed hard - as in a normal edf environment.

By the way, 1600 kV seems pretty hi for a 127mm fan. You will have to run on a very low cell count and you will still be drawing hi amps to get any thrust. Id guess something down closer to the 800 kv range would be much better suited for the Hobby City fan. That way you can run on a higher cell count - maybe 8S or 9S - and keep the amps under controll better. I doubt any of the Hobby City motors would survive at those power levels though.

To get 9 pounds of thrust out of a quality fan is going to cost you in the 2500+- watt range. On those cheep fans its going to be more yet.

On 8S, 2500 watts means your drawing 90+ amps. If you have to drop down to 4S-5S with a hi kV motor you'll need to be drawing 150-190 amps to get the power you need - if you can find packs that can do that. The cheep motors wont do it.

You're comparing the cheapest stuff on the market to some of the very best stuff on the market. Its kind of like asking if a 4 cylinder Kia can keep up with a Maserati.
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
...If you want to know if that Hobby City fan/motor/esc combo is as good as the DS75/Neu/Castle combo then no.

All the test reports I have seen - other than the ones ON the Hobby City web site - show that those cheep fans are pretty in-efficient and very much amp hogs.

Do not even try to run those controllers on 12S...
Thank you for suggestions on EDF and motor combo, as I have much to learn here.

Using EDF calculator, I had to substitute DS75/Neu/Castle combo for Hobby City combo to approximate the expected thrust output using http://www.s4a.ch/eflight/fancalc_e.htm. I recognize that there is a substantial difference in cost comparing HC to other EDF system.

My questions is "where can I find test reports on the Hobby City 5 inch EDF combo?" I am searching for real world test data on the HC (Haoye?) 5 inch fan.

I was planning on using two 6s Lipo's in parallel for 6s, not 12s (series).
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:46 AM
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You cant believe the data posted on the Hobby City website as they delete negative posts.

Someone on RCGroups did some testing on several of the Hoya fans a while back. I dont remember if they did that particular one or not.

As I recall, it didnt go very far due to the low quality of some of the parts - shaft adaptors and out of balance rotors with holes drilled off center being the major issues IIRC as well as the poor performance results.

Its hard enough getting decent power to weight ratios with EDF jets even when you use quality parts. Its much more dificult when the efficiency and performance are way below the norm.

Thats not to say it cant be done with those fans and motors, but dont expect stellar performance. You may need to order 2 or 3 fans to get enough good parts to make one workable unit. You will also need to do some serious balancing and tweeking to get one to run true.

If you can drop down to a 90mm fan size, the Midi fan with a Medusa motor on 9S-12S packs can get you into the 7 to 9 pound range for a reasonable price. Well, as reasonable as you can expect in EDF's anyway Far less than the DS-75/Neu combo but still way more than a Hoya.

By the way, you're not going to get there on 6S packs. The amps will be waaaay too hi. 9 pounds of thrust needs moe like 2900 - 3000 watts. A bit more than I recalled.

Check out this thread.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=846287&pp=100
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Old 11-01-2008, 03:45 AM
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My eyes are glazed over trying to read this thread on 90 mm EDF, as I really want to find the best fan/motor/ESC combo for 5 incher.
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Old 11-01-2008, 06:04 AM
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Bill G
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I still would think the same as Larry. Size down the outlet and use a quality 90mm fan. Otherwise, get ready for the cost of things like the VioFan. All the reading I've done on the larger cheap fans is nothing but explosions and meltdowns. There are advantages in the 90 also, in that you are certain to have sufficient intake. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if you're considering HC fans for high power apps, you haven't had as many fan explosions as I have.

I have learned to look at EDFs as high end sports cars. My prop planes are treated dime-a-dozen. Not so with EDFs. I recently got over 400W with a 66mm SF fan and JS 1400. Knowing better, I spent the loot for an expensive HW 505 rotor. I still haven't flown the jet a few months after finishing, as I've learned to have massive patience with jets. Everything's gotta be right, and I'm still nervous as hell.
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:07 AM
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I found test data to answer my questions at:http://myhobbycity.com/showthread.php?t=351
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Old 11-02-2008, 01:56 AM
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Good luck!
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Old 11-04-2008, 01:55 AM
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On Saturday, I met with Danny, who has experience with installing two EDF's on a Nitromodels Honda Jet, at my AMA club field (VFSS). He will be working with me on bench testing out 5 inch fan/motor/ESC/bat combo's this Fall prior to us installing it in my BAE Hawk and Dannys' Nitromodels Formost 160. Thus, we will also obtain our own test data here.
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Old 11-04-2008, 02:43 AM
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Keep us posted on your results.
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Old 11-04-2008, 03:04 AM
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By the way, I hate to keep sounding negative about these fans and motors, but you did see these comments in that thread you linked above?

Keep in mind - these are the comments Hobby City didnt delete.

1) Rotor balancing - it is mandatory on all fan rotors
2) Strenghtening motor mount - original four legged "spider" is too fragile to withstand 5kg of thrust expected

Motor required even more modding, so here are the actions performed:

1) Epoxying stator windings - new motor produced strange hissing sounds when spun. Opening the motor revealed loose wires touching the rotor. Actually, complete winding is pretty loose, so nonuniform heat transfer and poor thermal dissipation was expected. A special pressing tool was machined and used along with thin mylar sheets in order to epoxy the windings. Very uniform and solid stator winding was achieved using heated high temp epoxy glue.

2) Fixing the front motor cover - when exceeding 1 kW input power motor produces so high torque that it starts to unscrew itself from the front cover that doubles as the mounting surface.

3) the kind of rotor adaptor used on hobbycity.com fans is prone to slipping of the motor shaft if no appropriate depression is made on the shaft. (he doesnt mention that the holes are usually drilled off center)

Shock followed immediately after the throttle was set to 100% as the rpm's slowly went down. Suddenly ESC stopped the motor and I had to engage external blower used for afterrun cooling.

All attempts of restarting failed, even with changed ESC (from Sentilon 100A HV to Castle Creations 85 HV).
There was some funny smell present, but nothing serious.
However, testing the rotor for magnetic strength revealed total lack of magnetism! Obviously, rotor magnet was not able to withstand internal temperatures produced by 5" fan load.
All of thats just in the first post or two I skimmed through. Later he talks about machining custom fans to attach to the motors to try to get them to survive.

You do realize your going to have to do a major re-build on the fans and motors?

He doesnt mention the exploding rotors Bill talked about or the esc fires or the melted hubs Ive read about.

Good luck!
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:14 AM
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Yes, I did see these comments on the UH 5 inch EDF with 10S. I will be bench testing the UH 5 inch EDF with 9S after checking balance of fan and strengthening the motor mount. If vibration is observed, I will recheck and troubleshoot, then move onto testing other EDF combo's if best approach. Danny is interested in 96mm midifan, but it is not rated for using with a 10lb plane.
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:26 AM
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I have been flying a 5" Hoya fan using a Hacker A50-14S 10 pole motor. pulls 63 AMPs on 10S. Works very well. Does about 2300 WATTs. These number are about the same as I get with my Bryon fan using the same motor & cell count. Flies a 8 lb jet very well. I did reinforce the front mounting area and opened the motor tube to 50mm dia.
Bob
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Old 11-08-2008, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bruff View Post
I have been flying a 5" Hoya fan using a Hacker A50-14S 10 pole motor. pulls 63 AMPs on 10S. Works very well. Does about 2300 WATTs. ...Flies a 8 lb jet very well. I did reinforce the front mounting area ...Bob
Bob, thanks for the testing data on using your Hacker motor with the 5 incher. My 5 inch Haoye fan arrived today, along with above 700 kv motor and Turnigy Sentilon 100A HV ESC. I am researching test stands for ducted fan and welcome suggestions here.
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Old 01-31-2009, 06:14 PM
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Hi,
Can you list a few planes a 5 inch fan would work in?
Thanks,
JR
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:45 PM
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The 5 inch EDF fits perfectly into British Aerospace Hawk Red Arrow Scale Nitro Gas Radio Remote Control Airplane Jet that I purchased from Nitroplanes as refurbished.

http://www.nitroplanes.com/braeha.html

There are many other jets that you will find have specs for a Turbax 46 Ducted Fan Unit that can have the 5 inch fan installed - check out Jet Hanger Hobbies, Tamjets, etc.

Also, search for jets that specify using the Schuebeler DS-94 EDF.

Please let us know what you find with your search here.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:17 PM
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Thanks,
JR
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:50 AM
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Hi bdelmo,

Any update on your fan yet?
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rebell View Post
Hi bdelmo,

Any update on your fan yet?
Nothing yet to report here, as I am backed up on RC projects. I may pack up a glo heli to get to my EDF jet next.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bruff View Post
I have been flying a 5" Hoya fan using a Hacker A50-14S 10 pole motor. pulls 63 AMPs on 10S. Works very well. Does about 2300 WATTs. These number are about the same as I get with my Bryon fan using the same motor & cell count. Flies a 8 lb jet very well. I did reinforce the front mounting area and opened the motor tube to 50mm dia.
Bob
The 5" Haoye (sp?) fan sounds turbine like from what I hear too.
I wasn't aware that those fans could handle that kind of power either.
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:26 AM
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The 4" has gone up to 3000 WATTs with no issues. Same for the 4.5" fan. The front motor mount has been modified to carry the higher loads. The Hoaye fan (in my opinon) are great outrunner fans.
Bob
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