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Why join a club?

Old 09-14-2005, 06:17 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by E-Challenged
Many of our beginning modelers are teenagers who rely on gifts and allowances to fund their early modelling activity. Most of us started that way. A young beginner often gets a start with an ARTF all-on-one package as a last minute gift and may not even have much interest in or time for model planes at the start. There proabably isn't a club flying field within walking or bicycle distance and car or bus transportation is not often available. So they get started flying in local schoolyards, parking lots or anywhere else. Expecting such kids to spend $58 dollars to join AMA and then pay $25 dollars or more for club membership on their own is not realistic. Understanding parents and relatives can help a young modeler financially and with transportation. Club members should try harder to welcome and help kids and older beginners, it benefit's us all.
I give a you a Thumbs Up for your nice post!

The "kids" (I know some in their 70s) flying these under $60 models are just giving it a try to see if they like. And yes, they fly in school yards, parks & parking lots because it is convenient for them to do so.

Most club membership fees are over $50. I know not one in the DC area that are under $52, there is one here that will set you back $185 to just "join" the crowd. They assess the newcomer with a $100 initiation fee and membership dues are $85 yearly. No, I don't belong to that one, too rich for my taste!
So imagine what the average 10 to 16 year old interested in the hobby is confronted with regarding club memberships.

With kids and clubs you also have the issue of transportation to the field and back. Most kids do not have the means to do so, and having to depend on adults to drive them to the field and back is not a reasonable solution since most adults work for a living and are tired after work and or have some "honey do" chores at home during the weekends.

Regarding the post above the one I am replying to I'll say this much, these RTF electric models (up to $199USD in price) operate on either the 27MHz or 49MHz (yes 49MHz) bands and will not interfere with us, the "serious" modelers who fly on the 72MHz band. So having them turn on a TX in their neighborhood, their back yard and or nearby park won't affect anyone in the least. Not even if they were to do so next to someone flying an "expensive" model as he qualifies models selling around $300 or so.

Too bad that youngsters are not flocking to this hobby in droves. It would certainly keep them busy and most definitely out of trouble. The ones I know in the three clubs I belong to are very well behaved and extremely respectful on and off the field.

Granted that the way they are being raised has a lot to do with this fact, but the hobby also keeps them very occupied and off trouble.
Perhaps R/C flight is the solution to most of the problems that plague today's youth?
I wish more parents, grandparents and uncles would give their kids more of these under $100 RTF models regardless of where they choose to fly them. This also applies to those kids over 70.

BTW, one of those kids flying in our club has been there since the mid fifties and is still flying at the ripe young age of 84! You should see the expression on his face once he gets ready to go fly his e-powered model.

Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-14-2005 at 06:32 PM. Reason: Addition of a BTW
 
Old 09-14-2005, 09:42 PM
  #52  
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[quote=debhicks]Teenagers do not have to pay $58 dollars for an AMA Membership. Here is a link that may be quite helpful. http://www.modelaircraft.org/PDF-files/902.pdf
The problem with the above statement is the entire enrollment form has not been read. "

Ya know, I thought there was a reduced rate for juniors but the AMA website said flatly $58. When you get to the enrollment form, there is a reduced rate of $15 , which is much better.
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:33 PM
  #53  
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http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=PKZ4100

Referring to the $199 USD RTR Electrics. This is what is coming out next. So things aren't going to be so comfortable anymore.
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:53 AM
  #54  
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I like both clubs I belong to and the AMA. $100 total per year? I drink that while building planes in a month. Thanks. That is for the clubs I belong to and the AMA.
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Old 09-15-2005, 07:04 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by debhicks
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=PKZ4100

Referring to the $199 USD RTR Electrics. This is what is coming out next. So things aren't going to be so comfortable anymore.
That Typhoon is a rather nice model. I wonder about the quality of the radio included at that price. I doubt any begineer is going to a 3D Typhoon right of the bat, especially one with a non-computer four channel radio without exponential. Not a good TX for 3D flight usage. Don't like the idea of them having these on the 72MHz band either.

What I referred to in my post was the Merlin RTF P/F (?) sold by Hobby Lobby. That thing has been around since time immemorial and it is just as bad a starting choice model today as it was five years ago.

GWS Slow Sticks are a good way to get started for a few bucks. Cheap, durable and expendable.
 
Old 09-15-2005, 08:18 AM
  #56  
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Hi qban

Perhaps I should have pointed out that I fly in South Africa and we (mostly) are on 35 Mhz. I know of guys that fly in a parking lot behind a large mall which does have a Hobby shop in the centre. Woe are they, one day some one will switch on a Tx.

Geoff
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Old 09-15-2005, 03:13 PM
  #57  
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I would personally rather see the kids spend their money on dues, with parents educating them on the importance of organizations and responsibilities, than taking a $100 dollars to the mall and being dropped off by a well meaning friend/relative/parent to roam the mall stores all day.

Parking a kid with a group interested in this hobby would not be a bad thing. And most clubs will make allowances for younger people who don't have adult family members wanting to fly. Most clubs have family memberships as well.

Big clubs involved in the community will take the time and teach those interested young or old for that fee of ??$$.

We take our children to school and drop them off. We will pay this for that uniform, donate this for that catalog item, buy this instrument or that instrument, send them on a field trip with $100.00 and their game boys, MP3 players and Nike tennis shoes, but wobble about paying $85.00 to an organization that teaches.

Back to the heavily involved in the community, wonder how many know that the AMA offers scholarships?

If more people Young and old were more organizationally oriented then perhaps the dues could come down and the park flyer issues would be null and void. I can only speak for those whom I have personally encountered who bulk at rules and dues, they usually do not want to conform to any school of thought except their own.

That is not a bad thing as new idea's are born of independent thought, however if independent thought is only being singularly used, then new things cannot be born. I can't think of any idea, thought or single person who has accomplished anything without a little help from their friends.

There is a post in this thread that points out the benefits of your $$ donated to a club. Your money goes for events, facilities, camaraderie and teaching. For those of us who have gone to college or going to college we know that education is not cheap. You go to the flying field and you have 10 people offering you their knowledge their starters, battery chargers, rubber bands, buddy box, advise, part of their lunch and play date schedules so you won't have to fly alone. Not to mention those who went out and purchased shelters and extra chairs to carry to the field to offer to those who can't, don't bring theirs.

Just a few benefits of belonging to an organization such as the Local Flying Club, AMA, Political Party organization, PTO, Homeowners association, Red Cross, Lions Club, Eastern Stars, Church, Fraternity, Union ..........

Oh look, there I go again. Kid's hated that trait in me
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:30 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Twmaster
But remember this. Your AMA insurance coverage is no good when you are not flying at a sanctioned field or event.
Not exactly accurate...AMA insurance covers you as long as you have permission to fly from the site owner.

Ken
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Old 09-15-2005, 08:36 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Geoff_Gino
Hi qban

Perhaps I should have pointed out that I fly in South Africa and we (mostly) are on 35 Mhz. I know of guys that fly in a parking lot behind a large mall which does have a Hobby shop in the centre. Woe are they, one day some one will switch on a Tx.

Geoff
Hi Geoff,

Are those other planes on the same band as the big boy's models? If that's the case then you guys do really have a problem with them.

Here in the States all of the 'cheapies' are either on the 27 MHz or 49MHz bands. The rest of us fly on the HAM band (the brave ones) or the 72MHz band. As long as they keep the inexpensive ones out of our frequencies we are safe.

Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-16-2005 at 04:55 AM. Reason: Sig
 
Old 09-16-2005, 01:12 AM
  #60  
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What do they men by our bands? are there certin bands set a side for certin kinds of planes?
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Old 09-16-2005, 02:08 AM
  #61  
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Overseas fly 35Mhz, States fly 27Mhz and 49Mhz. 49Mhz is really toy class stuff. 27Mhz is getting a little more sofisticated, but the real threat and problem is the new 72mhz "CHEAPIES" that are going to hit the market. This is where the states are going to start having problems. The Blade is on 72Mhz, the Typhoon is coming out on 72Mhz and there is a slate of new planes coming out on 72Mhz classified as park flyers.

I call them "CHEAPIES" because they will run RTF for less than $220.00 USD.

72 Mhz park flyers are a problem and will be a growing problem. This problem will go away when we all convert over to the computer radio's that will sense the frequency is used and rotate you into another frequency. Currently not available for 72Mhz.
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Old 09-16-2005, 04:25 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by BadTroll413
What do they men by our bands? are there certin bands set a side for certin kinds of planes?
Here in the USA 'inexpensive' RC models (under $120) are operated on both the 27MHz as well as the 49MHz bands, while the costlier models, whether RTF (charge and go) usually use the 72MHz band. All of the ones on the 27 & 49 MHz bands are considered to be toys by some, although some of them fly quite satisfactory.

The ones on the 72MHz band include electric as well as glow fuel powered models.
A visit to the Tower Hobbies (www.towerhobbies.com) site will open up your eyes as to what is available on these three bands on both glow and electric. You won't ever find one of the glow fueled models flying at any park because of the noise generated by their engines will atract the attention of the Police, period.

Electrics like the Typhoon are not considered 'trainer' type models, and since they are not sold with a computerized radio the thing will be rather difficult to control by an expert flyer, much less a rank amateur.

I doubt many beginners will be spending $220 on something they know will crash on the first attempt at flight.

Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-16-2005 at 05:05 AM.
 
Old 09-16-2005, 04:54 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by BadTroll413
What do they men by our bands? are there certin bands set a side for certin kinds of planes?
AMA insurance is secondary to your home owner's liability coverage even if you have permission from an owner to fly your models from his/her property. Only after you home owner's limits are reached will the AMA coverage kick in.

Another misconception, public parks in most states do not allow R/C flight. In some states it is against the law to fly a radio controlled aircraft from a park, school yard, baseball, football and soccer fields.

That is the way the law has been here in the Metro Washington DC area for over 20 years now. R/C flight is off limits on all of the locations listed above. If the Park or County Police catch you flying in anyone of them you'll get a 'love letter' from them in the form of a ticket accompanied by a hefty fine.

My personal opinion? I believe manufacturers of these 'park flyers' are doing a disservice to R/C modelling in general by calling their 'creations' something they are not.
 
Old 09-16-2005, 07:58 AM
  #64  
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Hi qban

Just like to point out that I do NOT fly with these guys - have watched a couple of times. I would hate to be there when one of their planes or heli goes through the windscreen (at best) of an expensive luxury car which may drive into the parking lot.

These guys are not members of our governing body (SAMAA equivalent to your AMA) and are not covered at all. As you have pointed out their personal liability better be up to scratch.

Further I am pleased to say I have "converted" one of them and I am taking him out to a local club on Sunday.

Geoff
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Old 09-16-2005, 02:36 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by qban_flyer
Electrics like the Typhoon are not considered 'trainer' type models, and since they are not sold with a computerized radio the thing will be rather difficult to control by an expert flyer, much less a rank amateur.

I doubt many beginners will be spending $220 on something they know will crash on the first attempt at flight.
If they knew they would crash at first attempt at flight? How would they know that?
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Old 09-16-2005, 08:13 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Geoff_Gino
Hi qban

Just like to point out that I do NOT fly with these guys - have watched a couple of times. I would hate to be there when one of their planes or heli goes through the windscreen (at best) of an expensive luxury car which may drive into the parking lot.

These guys are not members of our governing body (SAMAA equivalent to your AMA) and are not covered at all. As you have pointed out their personal liability better be up to scratch.

Further I am pleased to say I have "converted" one of them and I am taking him out to a local club on Sunday.

Geoff
Hello Geoff,

I saw a Saito powered Pilatus Porter go through the windshield of a car at one of the clubs I belong to. Not a pretty sight, but
considering that it could have been worse had there been someone in the car at the time, we were lucky that day.

Accidents are bound to happen, especially when you consider the garbage being sold as 'park flyers' by many 'manufacturers' of R/C wares.
 
Old 09-16-2005, 08:23 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by AEAJR
If they knew they would crash at first attempt at flight? How would they know that?
Re: Typhoon RTF R/C.

No one said they are smart; but when you consider that $220 is a rather hefty investment (even in these days of expendable cash), most rank beginners wouldn't spend that kind of money on a hobby they may give up after a few attempts at R/C flight.

Anyone able to afford $220 on a RTF model can also afford AMA and club membership dues.

Retailers not referring these potential hobbyists in the correct direction are not only doing a disservice to the hobby but to the public at large in general.

It is incumbent on hobby shops to direct curious beginners to the AMA and AMA chartered clubs for proper guidance in their R/C flight learning curve.
 
Old 09-16-2005, 08:49 PM
  #68  
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I do not have a large enough yard for flying and always felt at odds with someone or some real or imagined safety rule. I thought I found the perfect "free spot" large field. After landing my aerobird one day, a gentleman from the neighborhood 1/4 mile away walked up and complained that someone had crashed a glow plane into his truck a few months prior. I put my hand up and told him to say no more; he would never see me flying there again. I joined a club and have not regretted the dues since. It was there that I retired the Aerobird in pieces and started flying a brushless modified Aspire EP and love it. Our club is great. I am usually the only electric flyer there and have been embraced. I get a lot of questions about the gear and I get help whenever I need it. I used to fly in the mornings to avoid the crowds, but now I look forward to being around the other members.
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Old 09-17-2005, 12:09 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by debhicks
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=PKZ4100

Referring to the $199 USD RTR Electrics. This is what is coming out next. So things aren't going to be so comfortable anymore.
There are lots of 72 mhz RTF planes available and have been for years. They come in electric, glow and glider versions.

Nextstar is glow and available in many hobby stores. Tower, hobbico, Multiplex, Great Planes, and others make 72 mhz RTFs.

For example, I have a Great Planes Spirit Select sailplane - came with 72 mhz radio. Bought it two years ago. Great bird!

They are becoming more common, but they are not new. Lots of the new flyers in our club start on RTF 72 mhz and 27 mhz planes. Some have 2-3 of them and really like them. They have no interest in building kits or ARFs. Buy and fly!
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Old 09-17-2005, 01:12 AM
  #70  
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hi fellows i have been flying model planes for about 30 years and belonged
to several clubs over this time the club i fly with mostly is in GREENSBORO
NC about 30 miles or so from my house we have clubs closer but prefer
the GRAMS club because the guys up there fly every kimd of plane there
is small or large we give each other a hard time in fun when someone dumb thumbs a plan into a tree or into the ground but you can look around
and there will be ten or twelve guys helping you retreive your plane this makes a club so much more fun than flying alone well that is my 2 sense
worth
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Old 09-17-2005, 02:20 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Popjinx
I do not have a large enough yard for flying and always felt at odds with someone or some real or imagined safety rule. I thought I found the perfect "free spot" large field. After landing my aerobird one day, a gentleman from the neighborhood 1/4 mile away walked up and complained that someone had crashed a glow plane into his truck a few months prior. I put my hand up and told him to say no more; he would never see me flying there again. I joined a club and have not regretted the dues since. It was there that I retired the Aerobird in pieces and started flying a brushless modified Aspire EP and love it. Our club is great. I am usually the only electric flyer there and have been embraced. I get a lot of questions about the gear and I get help whenever I need it. I used to fly in the mornings to avoid the crowds, but now I look forward to being around the other members.
You did the right thing. The reason clubs have safety rules is for everyone's welfare while flying at their fields. Club rules prevent members who are unruly or reckless in their flying habits from injuring/killing someone or damaging property.

There are many cases on record where out of control models have maimed and or killed members. Two years ago next November 3rd in Houston, TX there was this R/C heli instructor who was decapitated by the model he was trying to assist another club member with. It was a dumb accident, control of the heli was lost resulting in instantaneous death. The news media had a field day with this incident, which was widely publicized in a most melodramatic way by all.

I live in the Washington, DC area and found out about it within hours of the incident taking place. Photos were available all over the internet. Link below will take anyone interested to the still active KHOU reportage of this incident: http://www.khou.com/news/local/houst....12011f8f.html

I'd be willing to bet the dealer who sold you the Aerobird didn't even mention the AMA to you, much less refer you to a nearby club. Very few dealers are concerned with safety. All they care is about selling you and everybody else a plane and to keep the money coming in.

Last edited by qban_flyer; 09-17-2005 at 07:46 AM. Reason: Correction & Link addition
 
Old 09-20-2005, 10:51 AM
  #72  
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Well from what I gather, 72mhz is the standard or higherend of radio tech. If that is the case most if not all technology relating to the hobby would naturally gravitate toward that. So my guess is there are no specific rules per any authority as to who flys on what. When are the new rolling code systems comming out? I am building a variation of a plane I have built a couple of times as an experiment. Maybe that is the route to take so I dont interfear with anyone else? I have seen many suggestions as to seeking out clubs and joining the AMA. The club closest to me starts at almost 300 dollars and is little over a half hour a way.after the first year..it drops 100 dollars and they do require the AMA membership also. Steep.
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Old 09-20-2005, 10:51 AM
  #73  
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Oh....by the way....retail
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Old 09-20-2005, 11:00 AM
  #74  
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is a very difficult life. Made even more so by the net. My family owns a retail store that deals in equestrian products and many times we have people come in and want to exchange the products they bought online from a competitor for the right size, color, and so on, They think that because its the same manufacture that it should be ok. You should see the response we get from some when we tell then they must deal with the online company and even worse...what THEIR return and refund policy is and how long it takes. There is no substitute for industry knowledge and experiance and the fact is....you get what you pay for when dealing on line. If you are lucky and can figure most things out on your own then net shop away. However when things go bad you truly learn the meaning of going it alone.
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Old 09-20-2005, 05:18 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by BadTroll413
Well from what I gather, 72mhz is the standard or higherend of radio tech. If that is the case most if not all technology relating to the hobby would naturally gravitate toward that. So my guess is there are no specific rules per any authority as to who flys on what. When are the new rolling code systems comming out? I am building a variation of a plane I have built a couple of times as an experiment. Maybe that is the route to take so I dont interfear with anyone else? I have seen many suggestions as to seeking out clubs and joining the AMA. The club closest to me starts at almost 300 dollars and is little over a half hour a way.after the first year..it drops 100 dollars and they do require the AMA membership also. Steep.
$300 just to join? I refused to join one in this area as they wanted $100 for an "initiation" fee and $85 yearly dues. The clubs I joined are $65, $52 and $40 a year each and don't require an "initiation" fee. As a matter of principle I refused to join the "rich" one. Initiation fees are nothing more than highway robbery!

Even if I was filthy rich I would not do it. I just can't see myself throwing money away like that. That $300 club you are talking about, being one hour away is definitely too rich for most R/Cers. Especially when you consider the cost of gasoline these days.

72mHz has been the norm for quite sometime now. The earlier radios used 27mHz but when CB was the rage, the FCC alloted us a few frequencies on 72mHz. Also back in those days R/C radios used AM rather than FM as their mode of transmission and reception. HAM operators also used the ones alloted them for R/C on their band. 27mHz & 49mHz are mainly used these days for the under $120 RTF models.

No one controls what radio frequency on 72mHz you may decide to use. To operate one on the HAM band the person needs to have a HAM operator's license, though I know a few who use them and have not gotten a license. There seems to be a problem with the freuqencies alloted R/Cers on the HAM band. Too many and powerful (100 watt) repeaters are proliferating. It seems their operation interferes with those flying on that band.

Regarding your other post, hobby shops in this area have the same problem you have with equestrian equipment in your business. People come over and window shop only to get on the net and order from the online outfits at a reduced price. It's rather dishonest since the LHS is the one advising the buyer and not getting paid for their wasted time. They refuse to exchange anything bought elsewhere, be it another LHS or an online outfit, though.
 

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